Some things never change. We're a self defeating bunch of nitwits

[Armstead]

Been away for a while. Burned out on ridiculous flamefests.

Checked in again because, well the world is heating up again.

Yup some things never change. We eat each others' young while complaining about the Republicans.

The schism de jour is race. No matter that the exploiters are exploiting us all. The more we divide, the more they conquer.

They feed the right wing the red meat of "family values" and immigration and gays.

They feed us the red meat of racial division.

Yep. "The People United Will Never Be Defeated." Only problem is The People Will Never be United. We're too busy tossing brickbats at each other, while the oligarchs steal it all.

[senseandsensibility]

1. Sad but true.

[el_bryanto]

2. Well we might be busy doing several things

Engaging in passionate debate at DU while also supporting the candidate of our choice, for example. This is the primary season - time to get this sort of stuff out in the open, so we can determine what kind of party we want to be.

I for one wouldn't much like being in the red meat of the right wing, where one opinion is allowed an all others shouted down.

Bryant

[Armstead]

5. Passionate debate is one thing

I don't see a lot of constructive dialogue with honest give and take or "You've got a point. Maybe I'll have to reconsider that" going on.

Just a lot of mutual defensiveness, "You'll never understand" and divisive insults going back and forth.

Self defeating and empowering to those who really don't want to see any real unity.

[kentuck]

22. The racism pot is boiling over....

We've been there before and it ain't pretty. Nothing good comes from it, no matter the intentions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, someone once said. In this instance, I think it might be true?

Good to see you back, Armstead, even for a short time.

[Armstead]

32. Hi Kentuck

[kentuck]

57. Good to see you

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

3. This wasn't 'the exploiters exploiting us all'.

This is people being told to wake up and smell the coffee - that candidates can't just take voters for granted any more. Voters actually expect them to work for those votes. People are being murdered by police, and voters want candidates to actually have a plan to stop it. To quit treating the police as the untouchable enforcers for the oligarchs, able to kill at will and get a paid vacation for doing it.

[Armstead]

8. No it's the left banging on the left, yet again

[heaven05]

64. BS

#Black Lives Matter and the all lives matter crowd and white lives matter crowd don't want to acknowledge that in the face of this recent hanging. When the left becomes ctruly inclusive, then maybe the banging will stop.

[Autumn]

118. I have to say, I don't want to fucking wait for some candidate to come up with a plan

to stop these killings. I want someone to come up with a plan to stop them now.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

119. Bernie can do it. He's in Congress right now.

And Congress is where most legislation originates, not the White House. He doesn't need to wait til after he's President.

[kentuck]

120. I don't know about that?

The majority determines what is brought to the floor of the House for a vote.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

121. True, and you also have to take into account that if it did get to the floor

it would be a tough pass, but justice system reform issues have actually been winning some bipartisan support of late. Nothing to be lost by trying, and a lot of lives to be saved and votes to be gained.

[Autumn]

122. I don't get why we have to wait for legislation no fucking way the pukes will let anything pass.

People's civil rights are being violated and they are being murdered by police, an agency paid for with tax payer money. Why are these departments not being investigated by the DOJ, they are a branch of the White House ? This should be within their scope. You are so right Bernie could introduce a bill, so could all of the democrats. Do you want a symbolic piece of legislation submitted? Because that's all it would be. Obama could ask anyone to do it but it won't do a damn bit of good to introduce legislation that is going to go nowhere. What then? Legislation isn't going to stop the killings. Investigations, and prosecutions with the whole wight of the DOJ might get the police to at least clean up some of their acts. If it saves one life that's better than one life ended over a fucking traffic stop.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

123. Sure. Do it. I'm not against any of the things you're saying.

But there do need to be permanent methods to deal with these issues, not just treating each instance as a 'one off'.

[Autumn]

125. I have no power to tell the DOJ what to do. I agree on the need for legislation but

something needs to be done to stop the killings now. If a republican is elected the police will have more cover to do what they are doing.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

126. I worded that poorly. I was indicating agreement that things need to be done now, in addition to

'then', not suggesting you could order the DOJ around.

[Atman]

4. Well, you gotta admit, it's a very clevery ruse.

We're polite. We continue to believe that if we're just nice and convey our opinions/ideas thoughfully, truthfully and with a Kumbaya chant around the fire, all of the right wingers will suddenly get it.

Suddenly. Yeah, right.

We've played nicey-nice for decades and things have only gotten worse. More gerrymandered GOP-only districts, more obstruction in Congress, bigger wars and less education -- The GOP has done a masterful job, and the Democrats just sit around with their thumbs up their asses thinking it will be better next time, if we just play nice.

How is that working out for us?

[Armstead]

6. I'm not talking about playing nicey nice to the racists on the right

I'm talking about how the "center to left" side of the spectrum keeps dividing ourselves instead of acknowledging common goals and pursuing them -- while also pursuing more specific goals.

It's like REFUSING to walk and chew gum at the same time.

[zeemike]

68. Well I think you are right.

In the days of old when an army laid siege to a city the most common way to win the victory was by infiltrating it and spreading discontent, fear and turn one faction against the other.

And I think that has been done to the left...you can see it when no matter how much you agree with and listen to some concerns it is never enough...the bar is always raise up. And the accusations always more sever.
When that happens the goal to me is clear...conflict.

[mmonk]

7. Yes, there are exploiters out there trying to divide. But there always will be.

Politics has become such a blood sport, people lose their sense of proportion. Big money makes it even worse.

[Armstead]

10. But we don't need to play into their hands

[mmonk]

18. I agree. Just do the right thing and don't let anyone take you off your message

if the message is real and good and truthful. Avoid the personal assaults as much as possible and never engage in it yourself. If you feel yourself getting too off course or angry, take a break, reflect and return when your head is clear. Always respect others while gently deflecting disrespect towards you. Know balance and as much as possible, know yourself and if you are comfortable in your own skin, then take everything in stride. Do what you can to change things for the good and if you can't today, then there is always tomorrow. To do less is to waste your time. You have only one life to try and also live.

[Triana]

9. +1 n/t

[foo_bar]

11. I sort of agree but I'm with the People's Front of Judea.

The problem is, if you look at this from the perspective of black people, the would-be oligarchs stole it all a long time ago, so there's a little less urgency over the demise of the "American Dream" as it's conceived by its traditional beneficiaries. I mean it's like cajoling Native Americans to vote for the White Man who won't take away all the middle-class white people's houses, because, we're all in this together, amirite? (But I agree with your basic premise that it's divide 'n conquer, although I don't blame people for having a different historical perspective on what "The People United" would actually mean.)

[Armstead]

15. Economic Justice and Social Justice should go hand in hand

If the inequalities of a system are crushing the aspirations of a majority -- regardless of race, creed or religion -- then it seems to me to be in everyone's interest to deal with that system and try to correct it.

Within that big picture are a lot of other specific issues. But those are dealt with much more effectively by dealing with the common problem.

[kentuck]

36. The principle of equality for all has been a sacred creed of progressives...

...for as long as we can remember.

[heaven05]

69. oh boy, here it is again

geez That solution of yours has been tried by the left for decades, put money in the pocket of the brown and black poor and it will take care of racial injustice. It has never worked that way. In the beginning, MLK's time, the socialist on the left were counseling/saying, economic justice will stop the racist from denying you the right to eat at the lunch counter. I got a pocketful of money and went to that counter and I was told n***** you can't sit there and I don't care how much money you have." "And by the way, where'd you get all that money"? asked with suspicious eyes.

Jump to the 21st century, 2015. Sandra Bland has conquered economic injustice and made a traffic no, no. Non life threatening traffic no no. Was going to start a good career/job the very next day there in waller county, Texas. She, unarmed, ended up being slammed to the ground head first, ended up in a jail cell and died there by "self inflicted hanging: according, at first, to the prosecutor of that county. I guess it's a murder investigation now.. FBI is there. But no matter, SHE IS DEAD and that job, of which our candidates are promising in the thousands for the poor and disadvantaged of this country did not help her one iota. Her skin color got her killed/murdered and to care that #Black Lives Matter is NOT divisive to the left. It forces the comfortable, privileged out of their zone and disrupted their insulated reality and the whining and crying started. #Black Live Matters demands inclusion, with high priority, of the issues that the privileged in the left don't face every day of their lives. High priority: RACIAL JUSTICE because #Black Lives Matter.

[sheshe2]

76. +1000

There are some jury results here you might be interested in as well heaven.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026995537#post74

[heaven05]

80. thanks

I seem to remember the same attitude toward race issues in the past. #Black Live Matter, doesn't matter to some it seems, ever.

[Armstead]

78. Here it is again

If you follow the career of MLK, he too came to believe that economic justice was extremely important to lift all boats. So if you want to cite him, cite him honestly.

Yes racial bigotry and injustice are serious issues that have to be dealt with on their own terms. And I have NO PROBLEM with honest debate and discussion about that, and how to make it more of a priority.

But -- as with any other issue -- when people who supposedly share the same broad goals of universal social and economic justice disparage each other and shout each other down (literally and metaphorically) because some may have differing priorities, and let it get personalized and hostile, then that's when it becomes divisive bullshit rather than constructive engagement.

[heaven05]

82. MLK????

okay, I'm done. You're not using him improperly? He died when he went from racial issues, which he knew was the priority at the time, because a lot of POC were being hanged, castrated, burned and hanged. Those murders didn't have damn thing to do with how much money or not those victims and perpetrators had in their wallets or to economic and social issues of the time, which were secondary. Don't cite MLK because you have that privileged prism through which you view his work and it's a distorted prism. He died because he was counseled to move to that level of opposition to the PTB. The PTB never worried as long as race was his priority. When economic parity/money came into it. BAM!!!!! He was assassinated. Don't please, you've insulted me and more importantly, MLK's name by falsely using him as proof of your position. Been bullshit divisive, racially, since the inception of this democracy. The privileged don't want the race problem as a priority, hmmm I wonder why they never have????? Makes one go hmmmmmm? It's come down to #Black Lives Matter, to a lot, a lot of people. Have a good one, I'm done here.

[Armstead]

85. Whatever.

I was simply making the point that it was not only those awful white liberals who saw the connection between race and economic issues.

You insult everyone of good intention who doesn't see things exactly your way. That makes it impossible to have any kind of conversation, much less constructive engagement to find agreement or actual solutions.

[deutsey]

128. I agree. MLK was "connecting the dots" among

racial oppression in America, imperialism abroad, and class hierarchy in the US...all of which culminated in horrendous violence.

While still struggling against racism here, his outspoken critique of US imperialism in Vietnam and his support of the garbage collectors' strike in Memphis and efforts to organize the Poor Peoples' protest in DC all attest to that, imo.

[Armstead]

135. Perfect Phrase....We need more "dot connecting"

[Tommymac]

129. Wow. You have cut to the bone of the matter.

My example - I personally believe Climate change is going to kill all of us no matter what the color of our skin or the authors of the books on our shelves. We all gonna die - not just black folks or white folks or yellow folks or red folks or blue folks or pink folks or liberal folks or conservative folks or nihilists or dreamers. All folks - and pretty damn soon, relatively speaking. Unless we as a species do something yesterday - my grandkids generation (toddlers now) will be the last one living in a 'normal' world.

IMO that should be the over riding A #1 issue - but I'll be damned if I am going to be so self focused that I shout others down who don't think that way. If they want to have an open and honest debate, cool. If they are self centered and angry, I'll wait and hope that someday they calm down. If they are trolling I'll call them out then ignore them.

I am no one's master but my own.

Anger and divisiveness are not worth one second of precious time that is spent on them - but cie la vie. In the end my atoms will return to the Universe and things there will go on as they always have until it fizzles out.

Gawd help the human race - sometimes I think we deserve everything that is coming our way.

[kentuck]

87. Specifically..

What would you suggest we do?

[heaven05]

89. I have explained

and made my suggestions since the murder of Sandra Bland and the rise, big time, of #Black Lives Matter in numerous responses and OP's. My suggestions are on record since the death of Sandra Bland and I will not enter into that one with you. You want to know? Go look at #Black Lives Matter material and responses. Otherwise, don't.

[kentuck]

100. I read your recent posts...

..and I have a difficult time getting anything of value from them?? Perhaps you would like to say what your goals might be?

[heaven05]

111. I don't think when it comes to POC

and murders of POC that you would find any value concerning anything related to the lives and struggles and murders of POC. I owe you NOTHING in the way of suggestions. My posts are here. You're entitled to your opinion of anything I've written. I'm done with you. Moving on.....

[kentuck]

112. In that case...

I would recommend to other DUers that they read your recent posts so they can understand better where you are coming from. It's not a good place, in my opinion.

[calimary]

149. What a great point!

"In the beginning, MLK's time, the socialist on the left were counseling/saying, economic justice will stop the racist from denying you the right to eat at the lunch counter. I got a pocketful of money and went to that counter and I was told 'n***** you can't sit there and I don't care how much money you have.' 'And by the way, where'd you get all that money'? asked with suspicious eyes."

I think you're spot-on. Heck, I've interviewed very wealthy and successful black artists and THEY'VE spoken about how this is true - regardless how rich and successful they are. All that seems to count is the skin color.

Discouraging. I had so much hope that when we elected an African American President, it meant we'd actually turned a page on all that and had begun to pull ourselves up OUT of that old crap. All President Obama's election successes did was pull a scab off of a big wound, and let that wound start oozing and festering anew. As the cliche says - "everything old is new again."

[heaven05]

151. true and infected anew. Seems antibiotic resistant.

well, we'll see what the next 16 months bring us, the voter.

[kentuck]

154. I hate to say it...

But I think you might be right.

[Scootaloo]

108. You're gonna catch shit from people for this. Ignore them.

The idea that economic justice and social justice are somehow in contention is an invention that appeared only immediately after Bernie Sanders declared his candidacy. Its biggest proponents on DU are all very well-off, and very much in favor of a candidate who is absolute shit on the economic justice front.

Sadly their constant haranguing has proven Goebbels right, and they have a little following of people who seem to really believe that it is possible to have glorious and total social justice while preserving crippling poverty and crumbling infrastructure.

[navarth]

138. ",,,appeared only immediately after Bernie Sanders declared his candidacy...."

THIS!!!!!!

I swear to godz as I read some of the posters on this subject I keep seeing Ron Christie in my mind.

[geardaddy]

61. Splitter!

[Maedhros]

73. For my own part, I'm not concerned with sustaining the "American Dream."

That's the conservatives' job, and the "American Dream" was built on the backs and with the blood of the poor.

I'm a Progressive, which means I want to go forward. I want things to change for the better, in a big way. The only difference with today's lynchings is the assholes are wearing badges instead of hoods, and the Federal government is pretty much turning a blind eye to it. This shit must stop.

I think it's unfair to paint White Progressives as out of touch on this issue. I may be white, but my grandchildren will be black, and I have a dog in this fight as well.

[heaven05]

93. Not all Progressives are

out of touch with this issue of racial parity. Yet, too many are. This DU forum proves both assertions. When economic and social parity is reached for all then we will still be left, as usual, with racial inequality and injustice that has plagued this society since George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned and cohabitated with slaves.

Money won't solve that and gay marriage being okay with even a lot of the racists now won't solve racism based on SKIN COLOR. So what's to be done about racism? A POTUS that cares to address racism straight on will be a start. Legislation that starts to address schools system that are unequal and left to rot with federal funds drying up for "inner city" schools is a serious problem. The "suburbs" that have the money and tools to prepare a lot of the children of the privileged, get it from many sources. The segregated "inner city" ghettos don't, its as simple as that. Make sure when this "enlightened" progressive and liberal POTUS takes office and starts all these wonder work jobs that a lot are directed toward building new schools in the disadvantaged neighborhoods, providing the proper tools, computers and training classes for employment skills to be used when they graduate. It's fucking simple. Bernie also said it, so did HRC and O'malley, body cameras for the thugs policing the black community, police that live in those communities, policing those communities and other work in community police relations. All this has been known for a long time. Just like the reason for racism has been known for a long time. This society, capitalism that favors the few and the PTB that really run this society and the capitalist engine know how to use the tools on the left and right of the political system and will always keep someone disadvantaged and fighting for survival and we know who that usually ends up being. That fighting has always stopped true progress and that's the way the PTB wants it.

It's just the privileged got theirs and it comes down to really, they could give a damn less about the ghetto, the black race and the segregation and degradation systemic and institutionalized racism has created for POC.

[MisterP]

162. whenever contrasting the old production-oriented, MIC-run postwar economy of Fordism and Ike

against the post-Reagan financialized economy I always add that the boom that created a massive middle class and even preached equality among workers didn't go too deep beyond white neighborhoods (and depended on cheap oil and total disregard for side effects): of course the right-liberts insist that economic deregulation was what ended housing discrimination

social justice and economic justices are basically *dimensions*--one can go high in one but not the other, but again that's rarer than people often assume: Sanders and Wellstone and Sawant are hardly the biggest slouches in their fields when it comes to sex/ethnicity and Emanuel and Zell Miller aren't leagues ahead of everyone else on LGBT and race!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. and as long as white people pretend that economic disparity is the same thing as racial disparity

this wound will never heal.

there is a long history of race related oppression in this country, and no amount of pretending to gloss it over, has ever really worked.

[Armstead]

16. I don't think its pretending that at all

or glossing it over.

It is possible to have issues that are separate but also related.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. i guess you missed a lot of the threads this morning. my point is merely dismissing racism

allows it to be a wedge. acknowledging the real damage racism does (as separate from income inequality) may allow us to heal and be more united.

[Armstead]

21. My little tirade took those into account too

In a circular firing squad, the responsibility for the bullets go all the way round the circle.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. again, my original point stands, dismissing and belittling the impact of racism on black people

is a sure fire way of ensuring that race continues to be a huge divisive force.

[Armstead]

30. and you are engaging in what I am talking about

I don't recall defending "dismissing and belittling the impact on race."

I distinctly said the responsibility for divisive behavior is shared all around.

Some of us have to recognize that impact more.

But some of us also have to recognize the very complex reasons others may not engage the issue in the same way or even with the same fervor -- or may simply disagree with most effective tactics to solve the situation.

The only way to ever found common ground on issues is with honest -- non judgmental -- dialogue and debate based on facts, not reactive overheated emotions on any side.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. that's false equivalency. blame is not shared all around. some people have had to pay

a much higher burden for societal racism than others. those people have a right to stand up for themselves.

[Armstead]

35. I don't disagree

I'm not saying people shouldn't stand up and actively fight for their rights.

But there are ways and there are ways....And what's the best way to actually make and foster progress? That should be the point, and strategy and alliances DO matter in terms of how to move the ball forward.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. again, just because income inequality is your priority, dismissing other people's priorities

does not help build bridges.

[Armstead]

41. Okay there is NOTHING as important as race. NOTHING. No otehr issue matters.

Happy? buh bye.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

42. it's exactly this attitude, and this dismissiveness and condescension that causes the rifts

you whine about.

[betsuni]

46. Exactly. nt

[Armstead]

47. Yep you're right.

I think the economic system is important to everyone. I think racism is horrible, and I've thought so since the 1960's when I first became conscious of the world around me...I also think corruption in government is important to everyone. I'm a little concerned that we are destroying the planet. I don't think we should be allowing giant corporations to merge into ever bigger monopolies. I'm a little worried because they discovered some mentally ill kid who was planning on shooting up a local shopping mall where I live in the name of ISIS. I'm a little worried that the social safety net is being shredded for everyone. I'm worried about a lot of things that affect us all.

But because racism is not the only item on that list I'm condescending and dismissive.

Okay. Sure. You "win."

[frylock]

53. Okay, so once the impact of racism on black people has been acknowledged by white progressives..

what do we do from there to eradicate it? What possible solutions have been presented?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. are you serious? you can't think of policies a presidential candidate can champion

to reduce racial injustices?

[frylock]

59. A presidential candidate? How about a sitting President with keen insight into what black people..

experience on a daily basis? Where is the pressure being applied to him, or his AG? What policies would you suggest Sanders or O'Malley should champion? I would sincerely like to know.

[historylovr]

75. +1

[hifiguy]

81. +2

[nashville_brook]

88. +3

[840high]

90. +4

[WorseBeforeBetter]

98. I would also like to know.

I asked a number of times this weekend what details should be in the "plan" the Democratic presidential candidates are expected to put forward, but... crickets. I don't have the answers. I'd like to hear specifics from DUers.

[wilsonbooks]

106. plus 5

[dreamnightwind]

109. Because the POTUS is from the monied power structure

Pretty much none of the people putting race as their highest priority seem to have any fight in them against the power of money and its capture of our system of government. That's more than a little suspect.

The most natural recipients of ire from people most concerned with racial issues, which to me is obviously Obama and Clinton, are magically exempt from their attacks, while the progressive left, dead in the water for pretty much forever, trying to rise from the ashes against all odds, finally has a couple of people (one at least, maybe two) taking on the power structure that is truly behind everything that is vile and evil in this land. And they are the people attacked.

Obama does indeed, or should have, some pretty good perspective on black lives. Yet the racist police state thugs have killed with impunity under his watch, with no consequence to speak of.

Hillary is at the very center of that power structure. Not a peep from the people here who prioritize race above all else. She has no cred whatsoever on issues important to blank lives, certainly less than Sanders. She has a massive campaign infrastructure with money flowing everywhere, infinite resources to spin out any image she wants. Her husband "reformed" welfare, among other things tragic to the black communty, not a problem apparently. Plenty of other examples.

Yet no push-back from the race crowd here. They defend her, and focus their angst on the one candidate who actually would fight for them. Bernie would absolutely be their best hope in reining in the police state, among many other things, and he says so, all the time.

The whole thing is suspect at best.

[GoneFishin]

116. Yep. Money is low priority, but those with the money are immune from criticism about race. Nailed it

While the guy in the trenches, with little money, but a lot of sincerely committed volunteers is attacked for fictional insensitivity on race issues. But when he tried to address those issues he was shouted down and not allowed to speak.

Absolutely suspect.

[Sunlei]

58. a very good point, the impact of racism must be faced and discussed for as long as it takes

[blackspade]

20. They are not the same.

But both are critical issues that are intertwined. Doing one necessitates the other.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. while they are intertwined, doing one doesn't necisssate the other

i could imagine policies that fix income inequality, but don't address police brutality or other ways in which AA's are treated differentially in the justice system.

[JDPriestly]

25. What do you think a president should do to end racial disparity?

The race-related oppression is obvious, but what can a president do to end it?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. this is like asking what a president can do about income inequality

address it and prioritize it.

i get the president is not a dictator, but if you expect them to address income inequality you should be able to expect them to address issue that disproportionately effect people of color.

[hifiguy]

84. There' a significnt difference there.

Federal laws regarding income tax rates and financial regulation are just that - federal.

Other than strongly speaking up about the issue and appointing an aggressive AG and head of the civil rights division in the DOJ there is precious little a POtUS can do about rotten local police departments at the federal level. Cops are local.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

130. Not all laws affecting race are local

Harsh drug laws, militarization of police, fixing the vra etc. are just a few federal issues that I can easily think of.

And yes, making issues national via a bully pulpit can make a lot of changes. Obama's endorsement of gay marriage changed a lot of minds and helped move things forwards

Either way a president who cannot articulate how race continues to effect the lives of poc, is not a president I would want.

[hifiguy]

134. I agree with you but individual PDs

are municipal for the most part. The Feds can't do much about how local cops behave except bring civil rights lawsuits after the damage has been done. Sanders has spoken about police brutality on national media, and he is very aware of the issue.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

136. This is not about sanders or clinton

This is a issue with some of their followers who seem to think that all anyone should care about is income inequality, which is a big deal, but it's not the only deal.

I think articulating policies of police accountability can and should be a presidential issue. Along with several other issues that affect black people disproportionately

[JDPriestly]

94. I asked the question because I can see how a president can, through his appointments,

address income inequality.

Racism has been a reality in our country for centuries. A president can ask for changes to laws, and I can see how a president might reduce the militarism of police forces and investigate civil rights violations and bring criminal and civil charges against police officers at the federal level, but beyond that, a president doesn't have much control at this time over what goes on in local police departments. There is some federal funding, but not much. The brutality goes on even after the federal government tries to clean up the police forces and the prisons as it has in Los Angeles. Obama's work in this are has obviously been unsuccessful. Certainly as a Black president, he would be likely to emphasize racial justice in every way he could. He has two children who will eventually suffer from it one way or the other.

The president can do a lot more to set the stage for income redistribution. Obama could have done far more. He appoints the head of the Federal Reserve. He can push for the passage of bills of various kinds that encourage the economy. Obama has tried to some extent. Certainly his ACA, Obamacare has had some effect. When he first came to office he intentionally spent money to create a more vibrant economy (with the allocations of money from Congress).

But to actually deal with the racism that is in people's hearts and minds and that is causing the police violence is very difficult for a president no matter his or her race or opinions about race.

The arguments are not about racial issues. They are about what happened at Netroots Nation. No one here argues with the Black Lives Matter issue. It's just how and when they presented their issue. I'm a Bernie fan, but I did not get to hear much from O'Malley because he was not given a fair amount of time to speak.

I think, however, that the BLM demonstration and the reading of the names was very important. Fortunately, there is a video on DU in which the BLM case was presented far more effectively than it was by BLM itself.

Here it is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017280207

That was great. The problem with the demonstration was that angrily and aggressively pretty much grabbed the stage rather than allow the scheduled speakers to talk. The Netroots Nation could have organized the event so that there was a real discussion and not the appearance of conflict.

It is appropriate to demonstrate against people who are against you. But demonstrating against your friends is foolish. If you think your friends are not doing enough, you confront them about it but in a civil, rational manner.

I liked the fact that the BLM read the names, but because of the confusion, I could not hear the names.

In other words, it isn't really an argument about racism or the importance of fighting racism at every level possible. It is an argument about tactics and about being united and showing the world we are united.

As for the issue of racism v. economics. Both are important. The issue of police violence is urgent. It needs action immediately. It is too late to wait until the 2016 elections to do something about it. It's Obama who needs to pay more attention to that issue and right now. I think he is starting. Visiting a prison was a way to send a message.

On a personal note, I haven't seen you around for a while. It's great to see you again. Maybe I just missed you. I've been preoccupied with grandchildren and other projects so I might have missed you.

[nashville_brook]

95. what can we point to in the Obama administration that a candidate can build on?

There's the power of imagination and the bully pulpit, to bring ideas to the table in order that a meaningful conversation can be had. I don't know how this would start, but I think it's beyond time that it did.

Police accountability? why is that not on the tip of everyone's tongue in DC? Ending the war on drugs. Or just saying loud and clear that "criminal law enforcement practices will not be tolerated." We won't tolerate any more "suicides" of people in police custody. We won't tolerate any more beatings. Or shootings. Why is does this even need to be said? Is there something special about the power that has been afforded to police departments (big and small) that makes it impossible to rein them in?

Are we to a point, really, where the President is unable to address these issues?

Why isn't there a clear narrative to build on?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

131. Agreed

[hunter]

63. Racism on the left is worse in many ways than racism on the right.

At least the right wing is predictable. One expects them to be racists.

Straight white "leftist" males have a way of blindsiding anyone who isn't a straight white male, and doubling down they get so damned offended whenever anyone calls them on it. They are the delicate flowers of the straight white patriarchy.

I remember seeing this as a young white male environmental activist. I met too many straight white males whose attitudes about most things were little different than "conservative" white Reagan-loving U.S.A.. They'd seek the "input" of those who were not straight white male like themselves and then ignore it entirely, or regurgitate it later in some very twisted way, as their own.

In too many ways they were conservatives wearing expensive hiking boots and shorts instead of a suit and tie; men who had issues with just one or two aspects of the conservative agenda, things like nuclear power, dams, and wilderness areas they'd frequently visit in very manly ways. But otherwise they always thought it was best to work within "the system," unwittingly (to be generous) because they didn't see anything wrong with a system where straight white males like themselves were in charge of everything.

These men's "women" (men who were so evolved beyond marriage...) made them breakfast, prepared them for political battle, entertained their fellow warriors, and took care of the kids, just like any good corporate wife of that era.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

165. YES!!!!!

[irisblue]

72. Alert Results

Naked bigotry.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 21, 2015, 06:35 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Doesn't rise to the level of bigotry in my opinion. No where does the poster suggest all white people think a certain way.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see the need for both issues to be worked on, with racial oppression ahead. We can, and should address both. I do not see her statement as naked bigotry. LEAVE irisblue
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is no way in hell I will hide this post. La Lioness Priyanka, accused of 'Naked Bigotry'? Bigotry to whom? I stand by everything he/ she said. Leave it. sheshe2
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: she speaks the truth!!
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm a white guy, and I agree with lioness.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

164. the alerter is way dramatic.

[irisblue]

166. and wrong as well

[La Lioness Priyanka]

167. yeah that too, but it's one thing to be wrong, it's another to be dramatically wrong.

[sheshe2]

74. The Results are in!

On Tue Jul 21, 2015, 06:14 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

and as long as white people pretend that economic disparity is the same thing as racial disparity
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6995656

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Naked bigotry.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 21, 2015, 06:35 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Doesn't rise to the level of bigotry in my opinion. No where does the poster suggest all white people think a certain way.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see the need for both issues to be worked on, with racial oppression ahead. We can, and should address both. I do not see her statement as naked bigotry. LEAVE irisblue
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is no way in hell I will hide this post. La Lioness Priyanka, accused of 'Naked Bigotry'? Bigotry to whom? I stand by everything he/ she said. Leave it. sheshe2
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: she speaks the truth!!
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm a white guy, and I agree with lioness.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Cha]

79. 0-7 to LEAVE IT! poor little alert squad.. :( couldn't handle what she had to say.. :(

Wow!

"Explanation: There is no way in hell I will hide this post. La Lioness Priyanka, accused of 'Naked Bigotry'? Bigotry to whom? I stand by everything he/ she said. Leave it. sheshe2"

Good explanation, she.. thank you! #BlackLiveMatter Protesters at NRN Matter!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

163. lol. how is this naked bigotry?

so absurd.

[heaven05]

83. +1000

on every response of your here... Glad to see you

[LanternWaste]

13. I don't see how posts on a discussion board are the equal of eating our young...

I don't see how posts on a discussion board are the equal of eating our young... unless you were simply using melodrama and hyperbole to indict that same melodrama and hyperbole you so righteously railed against.

I'd imagine the vast majority of DUers are well able to concern themselves with serious and critical national and international matters as well as (and at the same time) other social issues. Though no doubt, many people's trendy, t-shirt cynicism will prevent them from acknowledging that as such.

[Armstead]

17. I agree with that actually.

And yes I use my own form of hyperbole, while fully realizing it's more complex and subtle. I'm not immune to venting.

But its distressing the degree to which people dig in their heels on a particular position, and are more interested in defending that and putting down those who do not share it exactly -- rather than actually discussing in a reasonable civil manner is, yes, self defeating.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. isn't complaining about trendy t-shirt cynicism itself a form of trendy t-shirt cynicism?

You know, as long as we're gettin' all recursive an' shit

[Armstead]

48. And isn;t complaining about comp,laining about...etc?

[Warren DeMontague]

50. Yes- but as George Washington once said, "hypocrisy is the consistency of small internet hobgoblins"

[hamsterjill]

14. Yep, and I see the same screen names over and over and over that are doing the enflaming.

n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

26. ridiculous flamefests?

You've come to the right place!

[randys1]

29. And on top of this the teaparty morons in the House just voted to give tax breaks

to billionaires.

We are really doomed, and this is all just theater from here on in

[Armstead]

38. I wouldn;t say doomed -- But we're definetly allowing things to get worse

[uhnope]

33. As if anything here has any import outside this ingrown cyber bubble

[Armstead]

37. Enh, it's a reflection.

[uhnope]

45. Not of the debate at large

In the last couple days I've had to ask angry atheists to please not shit on a thread about the Dalai Lama fighting Chinese occupation, and argue with folks who think Gaddafi and Putin are heroic anti-imperialists. That doesn't reflect anything but a kind of subset of a subset of derangement and online ugliness, a kind of online road rage. I don't even know of any other sites supposedly representing political progressives (or Democratic voters) where stupid crap like this goes on so often, so consistently; the result is utter irrelevancy. I get PMs from many people who agree with me and have ditched for that reason.

[Armstead]

49. Well the debate at large is who is going to win the next Final Four, or...

is Marvel better than DC?

But frankly, that is why I get away from DU for long stretches. It is a hothouse. But morbid curiosity, and my own orneriness -- and less frequent but interesting true debate -- has kept me coming back periodically since 2001.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

141. Well...

From a graphic novel standpoint, DC is the clear winner. Dark Knight Rises, Killing Joke, Identity Crisis, Batman Year One, Infinite Crisis on Infinite Earths, et al. However, aside from the Tim Burton Batman films and the Christopher Nolan Batman films, Marvel has the upper hand in the cinematic universe (and TV).

[gollygee]

34. Yeah, white people should absolutely join with people of color so that we aren't

divided. We should all fight racism together. Great idea!

[japple]

39. Speak for yourself.

[Zorra]

43. Yep. And who do you suppose it was that bought the racism nonsense to DU?

You guessed it.

Wealthy Donors and Lobbyist Bundlers Are Largely Bankrolling Hillary Clinton's Campaign
Her campaign filings reveal that 40 lobbyists are fundraising for her presidential bid.
—By Russ Choma
| Wed Jul. 15, 2015 10:29 PM EDT

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/hillary-clinton-fundraising-bundlers-lobbyists

[hifiguy]

62. Zorra, shhhhh.

That is an Inconvenient Truth that is NOT to be mentioned, ever.

[blm]

44. So true. I came to DU Sunday evening hoping to read recaps of Sunday morning shows

where Kerry appeared to clarify the Iran nuclear deal, and couldn't find ONE THREAD on any of them…….unbelievable…..on DU, of all sites…..nothing.

There were hundreds of threads on all the primary angst, and even Kerry's comments about Trump v McCain. But, every Sunday morning show that featured Iran nuclear deal - NADA.

[villager]

51. The other side only needs to poke and prod us a wee bit before we turn on each other

...which is why the other side has been using that playbook for decades, with unremitting success...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

52. except in this case it is most definitely not the other side. it is people on our side

that are expressing their need to be heard, in what feels like an emergency.

[villager]

56. urgency and legitimacy of issues was never the problem; which targets we aim at usually is

I'm sure the corporate right loves seeing the center-left and left and various progressive movements all willingly "triangulate" each other....

....en route to perhaps tearing each other up, and doing the corporate right's work for it, all nice and tidy like.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

132. Yes and my contention is that we do this

By ignoring issues that affect minorities. We tear ourselves down by ignoring the concerns of loyal blocs of democrats

[villager]

142. If we take an "Eyes on the Prize" approach, what's the best strategy to get to where we want to be?

Issues affecting minorities (soon to be: "majorities" here in the U.S.) are absolutely urgent.

Issues affecting the biosphere (eventually dwarfing our other issues) are also in crisis.

If I hadn't personally seen this exact playbook playout in the 80's, under Reagan, perhaps I wouldn't have so many alarm bells ringing now. But they use our articulation and thoughtfulness against us. They'll be busy winning elections, while we're busy deciding what the best "praxis" is....

[La Lioness Priyanka]

143. No one expects democrats or government overall

To solve all problems, what people want is acknowledging their issues and articulating a game plan. What happens instead is majorities frequently dismiss minority issues because it doesn't affect their lives

[villager]

145. Right. And hopefully they will be more adamant with those powerful factions who ignore them even

....more fully, and more absolutely, than their allies in these struggles.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Myself... I know it is an emergency

Trust me, I do... and people are getting angry at the usual, but you have two minutes at city council

(Locally the Brown Act drives some folks nuts, including me.)

What I have seen locally though has been very effective. When they tried (take into account I report on this) full disruption, the council meeting came to a halt, soft cuffs appeared from nowhere. and I waded into what looked like it was going to get billy club time...but photos were needed. So... me and the Channel 10 cameraman waded in hoping none used pepper spray, or tear gas... enclosed space, it sucks even more.

When local activists held a very silent protest at the inauguration of that city council, which I have LOTS of photos off, and handed demand letters to members of the city council, one of the few, actually let me clarify, the only media who got that money shot, they are actually getting somewhere.

Is it as fast as I would like to see? Nope. Is this moving as fast as the activists want to see? NOPE. We also have a bunch of intersection going on, between BLM, and Occupy (it is not dead yet). I wish the enviro guys and gals joined up, because all this is connected, but I cover this crap, I don't give suggestions.

What happened at NN15, it will be weeks, even maybe months, before we know the real effect... for good or bad.

You cover social movements, and you learn quickly that what might look like a disaster, is not, and what does not look like a disaster is.

I am going over and over and over on how to write an analysis piece of what happened there because of this. My first impulse from what I have seen in person... it will be negative in the short term, but positive in the long haul. It truly depends on both the pols (who already are changing messages) and leaders... it is complicated.

And I hope this is not going too much into the dynamics of this.

[villager]

144. You also bring up a good point about timelines, Nadin. We don't know, ultimately, how this will play

...out in primary season. But the problem is the events have been shamelessly exploited by some, over the weekend, for the mere act of scoring "political points."

And that's the stuff that does the other side's work for them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

147. I was scouring the nets

and truly the other side did not fully know what to do with this.

Which I found interesting.

[villager]

148. Again, this may have been our side obliging them with tactical choices, muffed responses, etc.

But if they haven't infiltrated yet, to try and insure as many "bad choices" are made as possible, they will.

I lived through it in the 80's, and we lost two -three decades of time to address climate change as a result. And now look where we are.

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. I agree in the grand scheme of things

In this particular case the old rules seemed not to apply. That doe not mean that in the general scheme things will not be abused.

This afternoon we have a local demo... and that is where some of the fracturing is. Let me count the ways I expect this this to be mostly a white middle class demonstration with labor. And that is part of the problem. The intersection of issues is such that people should be at each other's actions and listen, but I do not make suggestions. I just record.

[villager]

153. You're absolutely right, Nadin. We need that "grand coalition" if we're have even the remotest

...chance of mustering through the crises of the moment.

The other side will gleefully exploit any fault lines before such a coalition can truly wield power, though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

155. Exactly

but getting people to listen to each other is the tricky part.

[villager]

156. What we need is to get the 1%ers at each other's throats

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

157. That would be nice

[GoneFishin]

117. Why wouldn't they use it. It works. It's hard to trace back to the source. And for right wingers it

must be fun to watch us turn on each other.

We are all so screwed.

[villager]

146. You don't even need heavy-handed overt "secret police" tactics when the reform faction so willingly

...turns on itself.

[jtuck004]

54. For the present I should like merely to understand how it happens that so many men,

so many villages, Dictatorships present many puzzles. so many cities, so many nations, sometimes suffer under a single tyrant who has no other power than the power they give him; who is able to harm them only to the extent to which they have the willingness to bear with him; who could do them absolutely no injury unless they preferred to put up with him rather than contradict him. Surely a striking situation! Yet it is so common that one must grieve the more and wonder the less at the spectacle of a million men serving in wretchedness, their necks under the yoke, not constrained by a greater multitude than they, but simply, it would seem, delighted and charmed by the name of one man alone whose power they need not fear, for he is evidently the one person whose qualities they cannot admire because of his inhumanity and brutality toward them. A weakness characteristic of human kind is that we often have to obey force; we have to make concessions; we ourselves cannot always be the stronger. Therefore, when a nation is constrained by the fortune of war to serve a single clique, as happened when the city of Athens served the thirty Tyrants,4 one should not be amazed that the nation obeys, but simply be grieved by the situation; or rather, instead of being amazed or saddened, consider patiently the evil and look forward hopefully toward a happier future.
...
But O good Lord! What strange phenomenon is this? What name shall we give to it? What is the nature of this misfortune?What is this national vice that permits loss of independence? What vice is it, or, rather, what degradation? To see an endless multitude of people not merely obeying, but driven to servility? Not ruled, but tyrannized over? These wretches have no wealth, no kin, nor wife nor children, not even life itself that they can call their own. They suffer plundering, wantonness, cruelty, not from an army, not from a barbarian horde, on account of whom they must shed their blood and sacrifice their lives, but from a single man; not from a Hercules nor from a Samson, but from a single little man. Too frequently this same little man is the most cowardly and effeminate in the nation, a stranger to the powder of battle and hesitant on the sands of the tournament; not only without energy to direct men by force, but with hardly enough virility to bed with a common woman! Shall we call subjection to such a leader cowardice? Shall we say that those who serve him are cowardly and faint-hearted? If two, if three, if four, do not defend themselves from the one, we might call that circumstance surprising but nevertheless conceivable.It is lower than cowardice! In such a case one might be justified in suspecting a lack of courage. But if a hundred, if a thousand endure the caprice of a single man, should we not rather say that they lack not the courage but the desire to rise against him, and that such an attitude indicates indifference rather than cowardice? When not a hundred, not a thousand men, but a hundred provinces, a thousand cities, a million men, refuse to assail a single man from whom the kindest treatment received is the infliction of serfdom and slavery, what shall we call that? Is it cowardice? Of course there is in every vice inevitably some limit beyond which one cannot go.
Two, possibly ten, may fear one; but when a thousand, a million men, a thousand cities, fail to protect themselves against the domination of one man, this cannot be called cowardly, for cowardice does not sink to such a depth, any more than valor can be termed the effort of one individual to scale a fortress, to attack an army, or to conquer a kingdom. What monstrous vice, then, is this which does not even deserve to be called cowardice, a vice for which no term can be found vile enough, which nature herself disavows and our tongues refuse to name?

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/b/boetie/etienne/servitude/#chapter1

From: Discourse on Voluntary Servitude by Étienne de La Boétie

An old problem...

[Oilwellian]

102. Excellent post...I very much enjoyed reading it

The politics of obedience is indeed an old problem and it's amazing that something written over five hundred years ago, is still so relevant today. I look forward to what looks like a tedious, yet enlightening read. Thanks for the intro.

[jtuck004]

104. It's best printed and read in blocks - they probably had an easier time concentrating in 1550. <G>.

I found a couple favorite lines. You will find yours, but he explains better than anyone else I've read that we need to quit supporting the tyrant, walk away, and they fall of their own weight...

and then freedom is in our hands again.

I can't think of very much that would be that easy and that hard at the same time. Harriet Tubman said she could only save half the people she tried to free from slavery, because they didn't know they were slaves.

And that, or at least trying to unfreeze that solidified piece of thinking people use to shield themselves, makes what should be so simple so very hard.

[lovemydog]

60. I don't like the bickering but I do see a 'teachable moment' in it.

White people (myself included) can and should understand that racial matters are sometimes different from economic matters. And learn more about black history, which is very much a part of American history. And keep talking about race, get better at talking about it, and keep talking about economics too.

While I appreciate and take to heart what you're saying, I have a slightly different view. None of us have voted yet. We should all vote. And we should keep reaching out to each other, keep communicating. And not tear down other candidates in the democratic party or to the left of the mainstream democratic party. When we vote we win. So in that regard I think that we can bicker all we want as long as we keep voting.

I view this site as fun social interaction more than as some major vehicle for social change. I learn a lot here by reading. It helps me sharpen my views and hear a lot from others' perspectives. Perhaps it's up to each of us to share and relate to what we do apart from typing on computers. Communication via this message board is a nice way of interacting with people. Yes, we should try and make our communications pleasant when at all possible. Except for the trolls we all pretty much want the country to move to the left and also to elect more democrats. It's also great fun to laugh our asses off as much as possible.

[Armstead]

77. Agree with all of that, and there is entertainment value in debate too

But the way that differences can get personalized and hostile over the fine points is what gets to me.

I'm not immune to that when someone is hostile., But I much prefer good natured non-confrontational debates, and keeping a sense of humor and perspective, even when the differences may be strong.

[lovemydog]

86. Very much agree with you

Armstead.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. I gotta admit, this is why I find the streets

far more refreshing. The people are united, as far as I can tell, where the rubber meets the road.

DU is a place you come for the entertainment anymore.

None of us tries to do policy here anymore. It will sink, guaranteed.

[angrychair]

66. ive made my case

Its not as fun as yelling at people

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026995060

[Iggo]

67. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice to see you, too.

[Oldtimeralso]

71. Amen!!! n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

92. I suppose racism isn't an issue with you....

Just in case:

[Armstead]

96. Oh I'm so glad you had the sarcasm thingy there

I almost went to spew-athon mode when I read the post title.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

97. Aren't those adrenalin surges a rush?

[Hydra]

101. This is actually a very interesting "fight" on DU

And I've been through a few. This week, everything I advocate for has been brought into question by people who have no intention of doing anything to fix any of the issues I work on, for the sole purpose of derailing a movement for equality and economic justice.

Oh, wait. It's a Tuesday. And it's the same people it's always been. The same conservatives who block progress here every time to protect the people in power.

Guess what? Nobody outside of DU knows what they hell they are talking about. Equal rights movement still going. Support for Sandra Bland investigation and prosecutions still moving. Capitalism and protection of such failing. Prison industrial complex under scrutiny.

There is no self defeat going on- just the usual struggle of the (relatively) comfortable against the people trying to change things.

[glinda]

103. I also took a break.

And yes.....the World is burning while people remain nitwits and that is why I am loosing faith in survival of the Planet really. So sick of all this griping from people and strong arming. Some bullying also. Totally stupid.

[awoke_in_2003]

105. K&R

Good to see you back, Armstead.

[Scootaloo]

107. it will pass

Regardless of how rough the waves, we have one steady, guiding light in the storm:

Jeb Bush and Scott Walker are fucking dangerous idiots.

Democratic primary season always resembles the woodchipper scene from "Tucker and Dale vs. Evil, and this time is no different. when it gets down to it though,we still point our prows in the right direction and keep sailing.

[Orrex]

110. I love posts like this!

They're fairly common (two on the front page in the past 12 hours!), and they can generally be paraphrased as

"I went away for a while because this place sucks, but I came back and see that it still sucks."

I could read 500 of these a day and not get tired of them. Even better than chronic GBCW posts!


Keep 'em coming, DU!

[Armstead]

124. No, it's not that DU sucks....It's just that certain things about DU (and the left) suck

But glad I can provide you with some of your daily amusement

[artislife]

113. This is what it sounds like

Black people: Stop killing us and White people: let's give you some money.


This last weekend actually has cracked the egg wide open. I can hope for the best but who knows.

[Fearless]

114. Slightly over the top.

[GoneFishin]

115. It's a fucking mess. There's no getting past the defensiveness. The right wing has won. We're are

all screwed except the corporatists who will no doubt giggle all the way to the bank.

[CanonRay]

127. I tried to say that yesterday, but you said it much better.

We keep pissing on our own leg.

[sabrina 1]

133. It's just a few loud voices, we are not divided, just being targeted with garbage

which most of us are not buying, which is why they are working so hard.

Same old tactics, losing their impact as more and more people have had enough of it.

People want their candidates to talk about issues, and they tune out the nasty, negative campaign rhetoric, most of which I see right here, but not so much anywhere else.

[raouldukelives]

137. You got it. And far from doing nothing.

Some are quite busy assisting the oligarchs in the theft of our commons, of our history, of our future, of our democracy, of our lives.

All for money.

Some even have the audacity to languish and moan about problems they themselves are causing. I often wonder if this is done in a fog of complete and utter ignorance, complicity or sociopathy.

[YoungDemCA]

139. American history has shown that when white people dominate social movements

persons of color are almost inevitably excluded from said movements.

"It's not race, it's class!" is easy to say if you're not being oppressed by racism. The lesson here is that persons of color can't and shouldn't depend on white activists - regardless of how "progressive" or "well-intentioned" they are - to advocate for them.

Who are you to tell people - black people, specifically and in this case - that they are being "divisive" and that their issues are "distractions" from those that "really matter?" From my POV, black activists ( like those associated with #BlackLivesMatter) are asserting themselves and their rights, and frankly, they don't really give a shit about whether some white people get offended or get their egos hurt.

Don't want to be seen as a part of the problem? Be a part of the solution. A good place to start is to acknowledge the political power and efficacy of these activists of color, and recognize that their issues are every bit as important as the issues that you care about. Furthermore, stop assuming that everyone sees the political context in which we live as you see it (and this is a generalized "you", FWIW, not just for the OP). Just because you believe that talking about race and racism is "divisive" or "benefits the GOP" doesn't mean that others see it that way.

The sooner that we learn to respect each other's differences, that we understand where the marginalized and minoritizied communities and voices are coming from, and that we recognize the strength in diversity, then - somewhat counter-intuitively - we can begin to bridge our differences and achieve real unity.

-My $0.02.

[Armstead]

140. You're making a lot of assumptions there

The problem is that because I (we) are passionate about a particular issue assumes that we believe no other issues matter.

It's a reverse of the claim that African Americans who are passionate about their issues are incapable of understanding the importance of other issues.

The fact is that many of these issues are interrelated. And the only way to really deal with any of them is to unpack them and look at them in that larger context.

Yes, perhaps some white liberals/progressives may be tone deaf or not fuilly aware. But that applies to everyone. It's called being human.

But yelling and hostility and making it a competition among interest groups is not the way to generate cohesion and cooperation -- I don't care what side it comes from.

That should be applied all the way around.

[kentuck]

150. I still think it was a good thing that I voted for Barack Obama...

...instead of John McCain or Mitt Romney. I am proud that I was a part of the history that gave the United States its first African-American President. It was not the solution to all our problems, obviously, but it was a giant step forward, in my opinion. What other place in the world, with a majority white population, could that have happened?

I have disagreed with Barack Obama on several occasions but isn't that the way it is supposed to be??

[PatrickforO]

158. K&R X 1,000 You hit this nail right on the head. Divide and Conquer rides again!

[7962]

159. Ha! Go read some GOP sites if you want REAL dysfunction!! Trump leading?

[Armstead]

160. That's what gives me comfort...They're as f'd up as we are

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

161. And here we all go again.