General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTo the other women wondering where the good men are anymore,
I raised one, and my brother is one too. A super dad and uncle, very responsible, loving, no drugs, doesn't drink too much, faithful, and pretty dang handsome too, both of them...
I hope there's one out there for me somewhere too!
Skittles
(153,169 posts)LIKED IT TOO
MiddleFingerMom
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My ass.
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Her kick.
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Of course.
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Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Zalatix
(8,994 posts)are either not good themselves, or are not looking in the right places.
In either case, it's their fault. There are plenty of good wo/men out there.
Selatius
(20,441 posts)"There are plenty of good men out there. It's just that they're not your type."
And yes, it is a slam against people who constantly whine about trying to find a good person but typically fall for the wrong kind of guy or even a troublemaker. One of my personal best friends was enamored with a man for the last two years, and for a good chunk of that relationship, he was in jail because he was unable to pay bail, and she had to scrape up whatever she could to pay her share and his share of the rent while he was in. She busted him fooling around ... with her so-called best friend. We all warned her, but she wouldn't have any of that talk. You can't help somebody who doesn't want to be helped.
raccoon
(31,111 posts)way out of their league.
Also, in the case of women, the older you get, the more demographics are against her. Men frequently seek out women much younger than they are.
YES, I know that is changing and women are starting to do that more and more, but it's still far more common for a man to be involved with a much younger woman than the opposite.
Also, what ejpoeta said.
Darth_Kitten
(14,192 posts)a much younger woman is not dating out of his league, eh?
Wow, ladies, it must suck to know the older we get, the worse we become, while with men it's the exact opposite!!
Cave_Johnson
(137 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Understatement is one of those things.
Darth_Kitten
(14,192 posts)n/t
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)ejpoeta
(8,933 posts)and they miss out on a good person because they won't even give someone a chance. I had a friend who basically dated the same guy. He wasn't the same guy, but he could have been. And it always ended the same. When I first introduced her to my boyfriend, she told me I was settling and should dump him. He didn't fit her criteria I guess. I never really had a list and even though Bob didn't dress nice and didn't drive a nice car, and frankly I found him annoying when we first met, I saw something in him that led me to start dating him.
He's not perfect... neither am I. But we've been together for 15 years and have 3 kids now. The point I'm trying to make is that you have to throw out that list of requirements. It's bogus and it causes you to overlook more important things you should be looking for.
There was a woman who wrote a book about dating any guy who asked or something. She ended up finding someone she clicked with.
jp11
(2,104 posts)accept people that aren't that idealized object. I think they see it as settling for less than they want/deserve and why should they HAVE to put up with someone who isn't 'perfect' as they declare it.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)they may another woman. but, not me. and vice versa. so we figure our imperfections are complimentary to each others personalities.
treestar
(82,383 posts)She had a quote about their always being more good women than there are good men to deserve them.
Men get killed in wars and are more likely to get killed in accidents, so there's always a shortage and so they can still get a woman even if they are not so great themselves. So I try not to judge women who are at least trying - it's not like the guy is so easy to replace. Makes being gay have one good advantage.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Have the same exact problems as straight people, quality speaking.
Being gay is no defense from poor quality.
(or crazy, for that matter )
treestar
(82,383 posts)and with overall population one wouldn't feel that - one can feel that there is at least someone to try with at any given time.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Seems to me that women are in the driver's seat. As a 50 year old single guy, I have spent my entire life feeling superfluous, rejected and cast aside. Most women seem able to find somebody, unless they choose not to. Of course, I have never really lived in a serious war-time. From the church records post 1810 in Germany, it did seem like there was a shortage of men.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Though you may not be interested in your fellow 50 year olds and require someone younger. But if you were there would be several to pick from per man.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)That is, if I court a fifty year old woman, I am never going to have kids, or grandkids, Heck, I am sorta already too old to live to see any grandkids anyway.
But no, I am not meeting huge numbers of fifty year olds either, any more than I met lots of 45 year olds when I was 40 or 47 year olds when I was 45.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)He is exactly like my Dad. Everyone says so.....
I am a firm believer that most women look for a mate that is like their Dad...either good or bad.
TuxedoKat
(3,818 posts)I read a book once that said you marry someone with both the good and negative aspects of both your parents. Then you try to fix those negative aspects in your spouse. It doesn't work though, you have to learn to live with them!
Darth_Kitten
(14,192 posts)Some people definitely do not want to marry somebody like their fathers.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I did and my 2 nieces "look" for their Dad in everyone they date. He had drinking issues and anger issues.....they have put him on a pedestal and every single freaking guy that they date is just like my brother. He drank himself to death at 35 and left them as teenagers.
Guess whose picture is the biggest one framed on the wall in each of their homes?
Don't get me wrong, I loved my bro, but, not someone I would want my 2 nieces to marry.
ejpoeta
(8,933 posts)but as time went on i noticed similarities. my brother is a lot like my dad and bob and pat are like best friends. my SIL said they were like twins. there are some ways he is like my dad.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)My Dad loved his yard and my guy loves his yard.
My Dad smoked cigars and my guy smokes cigars.
My Dad lived for sports and my guy lives for sports....my Dad would watch a game and turn down the sound and listen to the play by play on the radio.....guess who else does that?
My Dad loved to cook on the grill and my guy loves to cook on the grill.
My Dad treated my Mom with respect and my guy treats me with respect.
Both are hard workers.
yeah, I live with my Dad....
raccoon
(31,111 posts)unreadierLizard
(475 posts)Through high school and even a bit into college where I am now, I watched all these strong, independent, fiercely proud women end up dating drug-dealers, thugs and general losers who didn't have two legs to stand on - but because of their looks or the fact they had a nice car or nice clothes.
Best part is whenever these children posing as men abused them, verbally or physically(mostly verbal; physical abuse was rare in high school drama circles) they would end up RIGHT BACK with the same child, or move on to others who were the same.
Darth_Kitten
(14,192 posts)I have no patience for women who settle for losers...maybe that's why my standards are so high.
dawg
(10,624 posts)You'll probably find someone good in college, but even if you don't, the world is open to you. Don't be in a hurry, it'll just make you feel more awkward.
Me, I'm old. I've got to be in a hurry. But you have plenty of time.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Don't know how many times I've been told we don't respond to that, but we do.
mainer
(12,022 posts)They may not be rich or handsome, but they make good husbands. I've known women who would never settle for a social worker or a schoolteacher, when those may be the kindest and most stable husbands you could imagine.
Unfortunately, too many women hanker for "dangerous" men.
dawg
(10,624 posts)Sideburns?
mainer
(12,022 posts)That'd make you look instantly dangerous. But it might cost you clients!
dawg
(10,624 posts)I've got really nice hair.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)Actually it's advice for anybody: iconoclasm, edginess, confidence. Look at what you do, what the personal standards are, and push yourself closer to the edge. Stay this side of being a lout. Honor once lost, is never regained. Be honorable in all you do.
Don't grow sideburns, grow muttonchops. (Then shave them off after a week, they look like shit on anybody but Elvis and Civil-War officers...but first...grow them. They make anyone feel like a badass, note the feeling...that feeling, that swagger, it's what you're after.) Anything worth doing is worth doing bigger
Take fashionable risks. Wear narrower ties, complementary patterns, buy good dress shirts in non-standard colors. (Always own at-least one crisp pressed brightly-white dress shirt though.) Slimmer-cut designer suits. Do the things that you think: "I wish I could dress like that." I have a lawyer friend that wears Italian driving moccasins and Sperry Top-Siders to court among the wing-tip crowd. A casual shoe or sneaker in dresswear says "Fuck you. I'm impressive enough that I don't need to wear uncomfortable shoes for the likes of you." The richest most-powerful guy I know wears ratty plain-old Converse All-Stars with his suit; who the hell is going to tell him he can't?
Look good, feel good. Nobody loves a boring inactive slob. Do something daily that is fun and active. Shoot hoops. Play tennis against the side of the garage. Hell, chase the mailman barking your head off, it works for the dog. Find the one small bar in town that serves sangria and has a mariachi band with a dance floor. Not only will you get your exercise...the women tend to outnumber the men about 6:1...and it's better if you can't dance because they'll love to teach you. Personally, I've been needing to be taught how to dance for several years now and have rarely gone home alone.
Do interesting shit because you can. What's interesting? Who cares. Do things because they're there to be done and you might enjoy them. You might even meet someone else who does not suck while doing it. Perhaps at this very moment the next Mrs. dawg is preparing to run the length of Africa and you'll never meet her otherwise. Perhaps not, but if not at-least you've gotten an experience out of it.
One skill everybody needs to know is--How to be a conversationalist. It amazes me that nobody has this skill and so many people are daunted by it. "Hi, How are you?" "Fine. And you?" "I'm awesome. I just won an encyclopedia in an raffle." "Have you read anything interesting in the encyclopedia yet?" Really, is that hard? People dread having to talk to other people. If you can't have a conversation, there is no helping you. There's a great book on the subject, thankfully, called "The Art of Conversation" by Catherine Blyth.
Devise a mantra. Mine is: "What would Cary Grant do?" Of course the answer is always drink gin-drinks, engage in recreational-sex and look classy & stylish doing it...but it never hurts to ask the question. It's helped me discern that real men don't wear casual dress-pants with polo shirts unless they're golfing. Also, golf is a sport for men that want to dress like dorks. Also wit, charm and confidence excuse all manner of poor behavior. (except dishonor.)
Do what you do. We're all good at something; do the shit out of it. Look good doing it. Display no modesty whatsoever about what you're good at, but always in "bite-sized" portions. Accept praise humbly. Always acknowledge the contributions of others as central to your success.
Don't go to the dark side. Mid-life crises are for posers. Don't buy the sports car that screams "I have no self-confidence" when you drive it around in golfwear. Don't chase (wo)men half your age because you want to feel younger, chase (wo)men regardless of their age because they intrigue you. Don't pretend to be awesome, be awesome. Do or do not, there is no try.
dawg
(10,624 posts)So well thought out and just plain ... smart!
I have seriously considered chasing the mail carrier and barking my head off. She's very cute inside that little mail truck, and she always waves at me when I pass her on the street.
Finding something I'm really good at is hard. I am good at being a devoted husband and a good father. That was what was important to me over the years, and I worked at that to the neglect of developing my own interests.
I'll never go over to the dark side. If it takes a sports car to get a woman interested in me, then to hell with her.
And if I had any money, I'd for damn sure not want potential dates to know about it.
mainer
(12,022 posts)Maybe you're looking at the wrong women? Maybe try meeting them in hiking clubs or civic clubs or evening classes?
And yes, good conversation is a big part of attracting women. And a sense of humor. And projecting the fact that you're interested in THEM.
Me, personally, I'm a sucker for men who wear glasses.
dawg
(10,624 posts)I've been separated for nearly two years, but not divorced. So I haven't been looking at all. Just wandering around with my wedding ring still on looking forlorn.
In the rare even that a woman showed some sign of interest anyway, I responded by being ... er .... unresponsive.
For all I know, I could be a hot commodity if I ever really tried. Or, maybe it could go the other way and no one would be interested in me at all. Either way, I'm scared to death by the whole thing.
But you do make me feel better about my reading glasses. . I had perfect vision until just a few years ago, but the words started moving around on the page when I turned 42. Glad to know some women don't mind the look.
mainer
(12,022 posts)If you're not even trying, then you'd better snap out of it. Since women do occasionally show interest in you, you've obviously got "something" to attract them. Women don't mind it if men are scared of dating, but we do interpret unresponsiveness as a message that there's something wrong with US.
Lots of women like men who wear glasses.
goclark
(30,404 posts)That is the first thing that ladies look at after they see your face and your smile ---- "the ring."
That signals loud and clear that you are still married.
Not saying all women make that decision but all those that I know.
Ms.goclark
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Am I doing it right?
"Why yes. Yes, I am going to wear this."
Rob H.
(5,352 posts)Hope it's okay with you that I copied and pasted what you wrote into a text document for reference and continuing inspiration. Thanks for posting this!
Buns_of_Fire
(17,181 posts)I'd buy it.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)More like "risk taker" than dangerous, I guess...
dawg
(10,624 posts)I'll just have to miss out on those women who are turned-on by the dangerous types.
I can be a bad-ass if I am forced, but I'll never "look" like a bad-ass. I just don't have it in me.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)The secret is it's not the "dangerous" that is attractive, it's the underlying attitude towards life that is appealing and sexy as all get-out.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)on how an accountant can become a little more "dangerous"
treestar
(82,383 posts)The dangerous man gives you something to be melodramatic about.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)After many years of observation, I believe that both women who go for bad boys and men who go for psycho-shrews (we don't often hear about that phenomenon, but it certainly exists!) are mostly chasing people who fit the media image of glamor. They're going for looks rather than personality.
Furthermore, both the bad boys and the psycho-shrews are good at counterfeiting what the opposite sex wants. Men want a passionate partner, and they mistake the psycho-shrew's moodiness for passion. Women want someone interesting to have around, and they mistake the bad boy's behavior for a sense of adventure.
I don't have any non-negotiable demands for looks or wealth, but I absolutely require a high level of intelligence, a non-childish sense of humor, a wide range of interests, and no ideas about what "real men" don't do. This is depressingly hard to find among the single straight men of my (older) age group. There are way too many anger junkies, alcoholics, and just plain boring guys who can't talk about anything but work or sports. They're the types who are divorced, and after talking to them for 15 minutes, I think, "I'd divorce you, too." After some awful experiences with online and personals dating, I have decided just to live my life and if I find someone, great, and if I don't, that's better than putting up with some of the boring, angry, addicted types I met when I actively tried to date.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I meet someone in the course of living my life, that's fine. Of course that has not "worked" but if not, then fine. I agree about the sense of adventure or passion - there are people I've been unfortunate enough to deal with in other areas of life who think that if you argue and fight that means you are "passionate" and "alive" and that it is a good thing. I don't think so.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Unfortunately, I have yet to meet that special someone.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)dawg
(10,624 posts)I'm really not sure what exactly that means, though. Different things to different women, I guess.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)one. and from my own personal life and what i see of men, they are all around. what i have read from you, i think you easily qualify. and i am sorry about hop.
dawg
(10,624 posts)Huh? I don't understand?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)HoF
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)When guys in the Lounge post something like, "Why do all women like bad boys and reject nice guys like me"? I know that they're clueless.
In general, though, a REAL nice guy (as opposed to a self-pitying sniveler) is kind and considerate even to people he isn't romantically interested in. The self-pitying sniveler is indifferent to other people except for putting on a facade of bland "niceness" to impress women whom he is superficially attracted to, mostly based on their looks.
On the whole, though, you should go where the kinds of women you like are likely to be.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Little Star
(17,055 posts)caring, loving and wonderful men.
I'm sure there are many on DU also but we most often hear from ones who like to be indifferent, show total disregard and dismissive treatment of any woman who states that she finds something offensive or worse.
What is wrong in this picture?
GaYellowDawg
(4,447 posts)Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)But that is just crazy talk, it always works in movies...
One of my best friends delivers this rant on cue, but she could write a how-to book on meeting assholes... that is when she isn't chasing obviously gay men.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)?
goclark
(30,404 posts)finds it nteresting that you asked the question.
Is there a Forum here at DU where questions like that are asked?
DU members have one important thing in common --- politics.
IMO, most of the Republicans I meet, I can tell in two minutes that they are not on my same wave length.
mainer
(12,022 posts)So men can get advice from women, and vice versa.
At least we all have many ideas that are alike....
Most democrats believe that women should have equal rights.
Most Democrats believe in helping those that need help the most --
Most Democrats by now have decided that they will vote for Obama/Biden.
If they don't believe in Obama/Biden by now, they are at least open minded enough that they are not wasting their time at DU when they are planning to vote for Republicans.
mainer
(12,022 posts)Woman seeking man: nonsmoking Democrats only!
goclark
(30,404 posts)"Woman seeking man: nonsmoking Democrats only!"
mahina
(17,668 posts)I don't care how sweet, loving, etc. a man is, if he is a winger, it is just not going to work. I can't respect somebody who buys the baloney. Deep down, there is an inherent selfishness in the winger mentality.
goclark
(30,404 posts)My circle of women friends are all Democrats other than one and she is "out to lunch."
Republican men that I know are like Romney -- "no there there." Some may be "book smart" but they are usually self centered and cheap - even if they have money.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)were laundry lists of political positions. Well duh, if you don't believe those things, you're on the wrong website. Tell me about who you are as a person, what is unique or interesting about you, why you think you're a good catch--without cliches.
DFW
(54,406 posts)I'm responsible, loving, no drugs, no alcohol, but not very handsome and very faithful
(30 years happily married), so I'm afraid I'm of no use to you!
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)"That's right, you're awesome!"
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)You said you raised one, which sounds to me like you had one (sorry if something bad happened)
For myself, not only have I not had a date since 1998, it seems like in the last ten years I have not even met any women to ask out. That was not true in the past. Heck back in the 1990s I used to get rejected by at least two women every year.
Then again, it is not like I miss THAT.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)I'm still an asshole, but she puts up with me.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I was flipping through channels and stumbled on "Bridezillas". I am shocked that the men still go through with the weddings and that friends and family don't turn their back on these horrid women.
It seems like most of the time nice guys go for women who treat them badly and nice women go for men who treat them badly.
I don't understand it.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)One 20-something woman ("girl"?) was judging the dateability of a guy based on how well he could make fart noises. I've dated quite a bit over the years, and never did fart noises factor into my decision-making.
Yeah, I don't get "Bridezillas" either. And I would offer that folks not take any relationship cues from shitty RomComs ("The Ugly Truth" being one of the most obnoxious...), or Judd Apatow films.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I'm mostly a science, discovery, natgeo, etc type of tv watcher. Some of the shows out there really make me wonder about us as a society. Meaness is celebrated and rewarded. Being popular rules over being intelligent. It's bizarre.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)But I agree, that while the men complain more about women who like "bad boys," there are just as many men who are all smitten with psycho shrews. I've seen some of those relationships up close and personal, within my extended family.
I recall one of my (male) college professors saying to the class, "You fellows are going after all the girls who are conventionally cute and flirtatious, but you're ignoring the girls who are beautiful in every sense of the word."
Those cute, giggly types can be awfully embarrassing when they're fifty and still haven't grown any brains.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)I wasn't even looking for a man when we met.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)In one case, the woman was complaining to her friend about the stale pickup lines that the men in the bar used, and her future husband walked up to her and used his sly sense of humor to parody the pickup lines.
noamnety
(20,234 posts)intelligent, hardworking, all that. I'm willing to trade him if anyone's got one that doesn't snore.
bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)(being male, btw)...I was raised respecting my mom and grandma and aunts very much - all very accomplished, intelligent and strong individuals. I wanted a partner who was like that, who could stand on her own feet, who I could talk to and enjoy life with with.
Never happened - most women just wanted someone to lean on, or someone to disappear into, or someone to tell them what to do. You want a partner, you get an employee. Or worse, someone who then just uses you to pay the bills while she relives her stupid teen years in secret (don't get me started!). I blame the culture, or the changes in the culture, though likely I bear some of the blame as well.
In any case, at 40-something I've given up, and expect nothing at all - which is one way to avoid being disappointed all the time.
goclark
(30,404 posts)That's the way Ms.goclark runs her life.
I must have 5 "Best Male Friends in the entire world" that take me anywhere.... movies, restaurants, plays , Drive or Fly with me to Vegas or anywhere I/we want to go. They were there for me while my Mom was ill for 10 yrs ~ my Guy friends were/ARE simply amazing!
In addition to that ~ my Ex husband is living with a wonderful lady and when he comes in town today, he is taking me to lunch at a fancy restaurant. His Live In Lady encourages him to see me whenever he is in my town.
He invited me to a Formal Dance ~ his cousin was being honored and his sweet live in Lady was thrilled that I could attend with him because she was going to visit her daughter in another state.
If she comes in town with him -- we get together and the first thing we do is give each other a big Hug. She tells me how happy she is that he sees me/calls me.
I am not looking to be married - done that 2 times and I don't feel the need to ever do it again. However- if Mr. Absolutely Right comes along, I don't think I would marry him -- live with him/Yes, but no more marriage for Ms. goclark. I'm having too much fun being Single.
PS: I sure do wish we could have a Forum at DU to share experiences like this -thread does ~ look how many responses and look how much honesty we see here.
Is there a way to make that happen?
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)There are plenty of accomplished, intelligent, and strong women around.
But they're not necessarily conventionally cute or fashionable, nor will they routinely flirt with men they don't know unless they're attracted to them.
When I was younger, I had roommates who routinely flirted with all males. They were not good relationship material.
Society's expectations point you in the wrong direction.
Blasphemer
(3,261 posts)I'd like to think I'm one of the good women and I've known several of the good men and women but the mere existence of both good men and good women doesn't necessarily mean that everyone can or will be imperfectly perfectly paired off. Whatever mechanism brings people together - accident or fate - is just as likely to leave some alone, some perpetually cycling through relationships (both good and bad) while others settle down into some semblance of happily ever after at relatively young ages. I think it's best to embrace all of the possibilities rather than seeing only one version of the experience of romantic love as being ideal.