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uhnope

(6,419 posts)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 09:49 PM Aug 2015

"sad internalized black pathology": BLMS activist attacks Black writer, is "disgusted"

Marissa Jenae Johnson is reacting to criticism of her Sanders rally interruption by going on Facebook with this:

Charles Mudede's writing is the most sad internalized black pathology I have seen in a long time. I'm disgusted by how The Stranger is using him in this critical historical moment.


Here is what is disgusting her:

The Bad Politics of the Black Lives Matter Protesters Who Interrupted Bernie Sanders

Before I criticize the August 8 disruption of the Social Security and Medicare rally in Westlake Park by Black Lives Matter activists Marissa Johnson and Mara Willaford, I want to make a few things clear. One, I support the Black Lives Matter movement, which is decentralized and more like a cloud of urgent conversations and interactions than a conventional political organization. BLM might be seen as a necessary adaptation to the ether-like age of social networks. And in this respect, it is not exceptional. Other such clouds formed in Iran in 2009 and Egypt in 2011. Only racists believe BLM is wrong to insist that black Americans are disproportionately harassed, arrested, jailed, and killed by law-enforcement officers. These claims are supported by hard data, numerous studies, and the experiences of thousands of black Americans. I also share the opinion with Seattle's BLM members that, though our city is progressive (gay mayor, socialist council member, and so on), it maintains an economic and social structure that benefits mostly whites and often blocks opportunities for blacks and reinforces black poverty.
...
That said, I disagree with the BLM action not because Bernie Sanders marched with Martin Luther King Jr. and therefore clearly paid his not-a-racist dues and should be left alone by black activists (GOP Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell also marched with MLK). My point is simply that, as imperfect as Sanders is, and as imperfect as white progressives are in this city, it still makes more political sense to form alliances with them rather than risk isolation. As much as I may agree with the content of Johnson and Willaford's disruption, its context (an event that was not for Sanders but for a very important issue that affects millions of black Americans) and its brazen disrespect clearly closed rather than opened a lot of people to the BLM cause.

True, some of the people who booed Johnson and Willaford were likely racist, but many were simply upset by what they perceived, with good reason, as arrogant behavior. The event had been happening for hours, and it had taken months to organize and promote. Speakers knew well in advance the amount of time they were allotted to express their concerns. Then, suddenly, two people break out of nowhere, take the mic, and appear by their actions to claim that their cause is far more important, more pressing than the one many had come to support. This, I'm sorry, is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way—and not because they are racist but because they are human. Rudely jumping the line rarely excites cheers and applause in any of the colors of our kind.

At present, BLM is not a political organization; it is instead a movement, a mood, a roiling cloud of posts and hashtags. As such, it can for sure have an immediate impact and grab the headlines. But the big question is this: Can it have a lasting impact? If it hopes to do so, it will have to consolidate, form a clear structure, create democratic procedures for action, and make alliances with other like-minded political organizations. This is straight talk; this is political realism. BLM will certainly evaporate if it is isolated from one of the major groups that's politically open to its concerns: the progressive left.
http://www.thestranger.com/news/feature/2015/08/12/22681317/the-bad-politics-of-the-black-lives-matter-protesters-who-interrupted-bernie-sanders
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"sad internalized black pathology": BLMS activist attacks Black writer, is "disgusted" (Original Post) uhnope Aug 2015 OP
Not seeing the pathology in that writing. (nt) enough Aug 2015 #1
Projection. nt geek tragedy Aug 2015 #2
She has heavy emotional issues and is using activism as therapy. snagglepuss Aug 2015 #3
isn't the practice of any philosophy a type of therapy Supersedeas Aug 2015 #40
She is engaged in political ideology not philosophy. Two different things. snagglepuss Aug 2015 #45
Gosh, wish people here had been this interested in Sandra Bland. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #4
Johnson is trashing herself. What about Mr. Mudede? BillZBubb Aug 2015 #6
Uh-uh. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Kurska Aug 2015 #14
+1 JackInGreen Aug 2015 #12
Bland got plenty of topics regarding the injustice of her death. romanic Aug 2015 #17
Thanks, I'll post here when I want. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #25
I was VERY interested in Sandra Bland..She lived about 45 minutes away from me. whathehell Aug 2015 #26
I'm actually more interested in Sandra Bland- who she was, what happened to her... Hydra Aug 2015 #28
I'm guessing she doesn't really care about what anyone Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #30
Ummm...so you're actually not all that interested if we're interested in rolling back racism Hydra Aug 2015 #36
Hurting the movement is a DU opinion. Not reality. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #38
+1 uponit7771 Aug 2015 #46
Mr. Mudede gets it. BillZBubb Aug 2015 #5
And I suspect that most black people get it too. zeemike Aug 2015 #10
I sure as fuck get it noiretextatique Aug 2015 #47
Well I am white and I support them too. zeemike Aug 2015 #52
He does indeed. Seems Ms. Johnson is descending into jargon-jive, much as Palin did. Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #63
I see what you did there! BillZBubb Aug 2015 #69
She should wish for a tenth of his insight. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #8
She wanted more than her allotted 15 minutes. GoneOffShore Aug 2015 #68
already with the claims that anyone disagreeing is ... avuncular MisterP Aug 2015 #9
There are many other organizations LuvNewcastle Aug 2015 #11
On one page -- insight vs. delusion. Waiting For Everyman Aug 2015 #13
Typical fundamentalism mentality. TM99 Aug 2015 #15
In so many words romanic Aug 2015 #18
Indeed she did. TM99 Aug 2015 #21
I think that's the point...to tear us apart so we can't affect the needed changes. haikugal Aug 2015 #41
She is a study in fanatism noiretextatique Aug 2015 #48
If only 17 were a child, but she was not then. TM99 Aug 2015 #54
Doesn't this belong in GD/Primaries? Since it involves a primary candidate? n/t pnwmom Aug 2015 #16
What does the The Stranger mean? mmonk Aug 2015 #19
I'm guessing it refers to flying rabbit Aug 2015 #23
It's one of our two local free papers JackInGreen Aug 2015 #65
So black people don't always agree treestar Aug 2015 #20
And white people on DU need to dissect this! KittyWampus Aug 2015 #33
Unless Marissa does something again in the national spotlight romanic Aug 2015 #22
An excellent suggestion. Vinca Aug 2015 #24
I think she's brought to the forefront some interesting philosophical, sociological and political cali Aug 2015 #29
Really? noiretextatique Aug 2015 #50
I'd like to do the same Hydra Aug 2015 #31
Disengage noiretextatique Aug 2015 #49
"Sad internalized black pathology"? NaturalHigh Aug 2015 #27
Never has a field of study had its terms hijacked for social opprobrium as has psychology. Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #66
So now DU is about white people discussing black people who comment on other black people... KittyWampus Aug 2015 #32
Fail. haikugal Aug 2015 #42
You're right. NaturalHigh Aug 2015 #44
My motive, as a black person, is to call out noiretextatique Aug 2015 #51
Here is a thread in which you were one of the straight people discussing gay people who dared Bluenorthwest Aug 2015 #53
This message was self-deleted by its author KittyWampus Aug 2015 #55
+1 Marr Aug 2015 #56
Oh dear god, that thread! Prism Aug 2015 #57
Just read that thread. You were very prescient, as if you had seen into the future. sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #62
Or some people hold individuals higher than oppression Prism Aug 2015 #64
So long as they are consistent. sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #67
Wow, that's a very interesting thread. Waiting For Everyman Aug 2015 #61
Now we are supposed to ignore Marissa Jenae Johnson? aikoaiko Aug 2015 #60
I didn't know this - from in the article JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #34
BLM had potential and... deathrind Aug 2015 #35
The problem is that BLM leadership is supporting the divisive actions so far Hydra Aug 2015 #37
Thank you for posting this article. Tipperary Aug 2015 #39
Thanks for the article.. n/t haikugal Aug 2015 #43
That guy must be a white liberal supremacist. The Straight Story Aug 2015 #58
I think it's time to let her go on DU Prism Aug 2015 #59
Black men apparently shouldn't talk on their own behalf. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2015 #70

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
3. She has heavy emotional issues and is using activism as therapy.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 10:57 PM
Aug 2015

Her attack on such a cogent writer is completely irrational and exposes her ideologically-driven and fanatical state of mind.

His being such an excellent writer makes clear that she is not dealing with reality. His description of BLM "as a cloud of urgent conversations and interactions." is not only bang on but beautifully poetic. I love how he picks up that cloud image later, writing that "BLM will certainly evaporate if it is isolated from one of the major groups that's politically open to its concerns: the progressive left."







snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
45. She is engaged in political ideology not philosophy. Two different things.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:29 AM
Aug 2015

Philosophy is open-ended search for answers but ideology isn't. Ideology is closed system, a complete package, which offers itself as a set way understanding the world and prescribes exactly what needs to be done to change it. For these reason ideology is akin to religion rather than philosophy.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
4. Gosh, wish people here had been this interested in Sandra Bland.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 11:01 PM
Aug 2015

More ink has been spilled to trash one Black woman and her life on DU than I have ever seen expended for anything else.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
6. Johnson is trashing herself. What about Mr. Mudede?
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 11:10 PM
Aug 2015

Do you support her trashing him? Is he a racist? Do tell?

And as for Sandra Bland, everyone here is interested in that case. The reason there is less discussion is because we are all in agreement. That's to be expected. As more information on the case comes out, discussion will pick back up.

Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #7)

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
12. +1
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 04:52 AM
Aug 2015

we all need to get over and passed it or we'll be stuck here glaring at eachother while everyone else walks right over the lot of us.

romanic

(2,841 posts)
17. Bland got plenty of topics regarding the injustice of her death.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:29 AM
Aug 2015

Why are you comparing apples and oranges here? And why go out of your way to defend Marissa; she put herself in the public eye and is now under scrutiny by other black writers and bloggers. If you want to complain about a black woman being "trashed", go complain to the black writers and bloggers calling her out and stop worrying about what people here have to say. -_-

whathehell

(29,067 posts)
26. I was VERY interested in Sandra Bland..She lived about 45 minutes away from me.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:09 AM
Aug 2015

I didn't know her, but felt VERY about her and sent a bouquet of flowers

to her funeral with a personal note of condolence to her family.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
28. I'm actually more interested in Sandra Bland- who she was, what happened to her...
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:20 AM
Aug 2015

...And what will be done to prevent what happened to her in the future.

Marissa, on the other hand, is just running around damaging BLM as I pointed out originally, and the BLM leadership is going with it for whatever reason. I'd prefer she do her "work" under a more appropriate mantle, such as Outside Agitators 206, rather than attacking people under the guise of saving people like Sandra.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
30. I'm guessing she doesn't really care about what anyone
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:24 AM
Aug 2015

"prefers." I don't remember her asking for requests. That's really not how the whole protesting thing works.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
36. Ummm...so you're actually not all that interested if we're interested in rolling back racism
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:39 AM
Aug 2015

And police brutality? You're more interested in defending someone who is hurting the movement and is now stepping in new and interesting realms of dividing within the target of said racism?

Please explain to me how that works...

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
5. Mr. Mudede gets it.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 11:06 PM
Aug 2015

It is about smart politics versus dumb politics. The Seattle hijacking is an example of dumb politics.

While Johnson enjoys her ego trip and 15 minutes, Mr. Mudede actually wants to accomplish something.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
10. And I suspect that most black people get it too.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:10 AM
Aug 2015

But the ones that get the most attention are the loudest.
And that is true for all races, realigns, and political hacks.
The attention is their reward.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
47. I sure as fuck get it
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:15 PM
Aug 2015

I have been clear: I do not support the Seattle 2. I support BLM and Bernie Sanders. I support his hiring of BLM activist Symone Sanders as his press secretary. And I support her plan to integrate BLM into Bernie's campaign. I am black...and I approve this message

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
52. Well I am white and I support them too.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:25 PM
Aug 2015

These murdering cops must be stopped. And in the political landscape Sanders is the only one I see that actually has a plan to do that.

LuvNewcastle

(16,847 posts)
11. There are many other organizations
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:12 AM
Aug 2015

out there besides BLM that advocate for people whose lives are hanging in the balance. Jumping the queue to bring attention to your cause at a rally organized for another vital cause is bound to make some people angry. It would be fine to ask for attention to speak at the rally, but it isn't okay to commandeer the stage like Johnson and Willaford did at that Soc. Sec. and Medicare rally. It's not only rude, it's disrespectful to the organizers and the crowd, who are there for another very serious issue.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
15. Typical fundamentalism mentality.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 06:36 AM
Aug 2015

If you do not think and act as I do then you are...not a true believer, are a part of the patriarchy, or in this case, have internalized black pathology.

Fuck she might as well have called him an 'uncle tom'.

It is a well-written article that encapsulates my thoughts exactly.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
21. Indeed she did.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:46 AM
Aug 2015

This shit risks not only tearing us apart in our own communities but also within the only damned political party that might really give a shit about black lives mattering.

haikugal

(6,476 posts)
41. I think that's the point...to tear us apart so we can't affect the needed changes.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:34 AM
Aug 2015

It's interesting to me that this young woman villifies the writer of this article while supporting Louis Farrakhan...

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
48. She is a study in fanatism
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:16 PM
Aug 2015

From teabagger to black nationalist. I know she was a child when her parents were teabaggers, but I still note the extremism.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
54. If only 17 were a child, but she was not then.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:18 PM
Aug 2015

As a teenager she embraced on form of extremism, and now as a young 20 something she has embraced another.

I am torn between wanting her to continue this self-destructive path so that she implodes and those supporting her see the error of their way and just wanting her to disappear after her 15 minutes of infamy are up.

mmonk

(52,589 posts)
19. What does the The Stranger mean?
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:39 AM
Aug 2015

I get different answers when I try and nail it down in this context.

romanic

(2,841 posts)
22. Unless Marissa does something again in the national spotlight
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:47 AM
Aug 2015

or says something truly hateful on social media; we should just let her slide back under the bridge like the troll that she is. Let's not give this hateful bigoted fundy anymore publicity.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
29. I think she's brought to the forefront some interesting philosophical, sociological and political
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:22 AM
Aug 2015

questions

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
31. I'd like to do the same
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:25 AM
Aug 2015

The problem is that she's been lionized by certain groups that want to use her. The problem is that they own her now, and she will have a disproportionate footprint in all of this for a long time, not unlike Sarah Palin, ironically enough.

On the other hand, she's accidentally highlighting all the reasons why equality and unity are the better answer.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
32. So now DU is about white people discussing black people who comment on other black people...
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:28 AM
Aug 2015

Because some black people used a Bernie Sanders (AND O'Malley) events as a platform for attention.

What could some DU'ers motives possibly be?

haikugal

(6,476 posts)
42. Fail.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:37 AM
Aug 2015

Seriously, you believe that? That's just sad.

This wasn't posted in a 'safe' group..it's a political forum.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
51. My motive, as a black person, is to call out
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:22 PM
Aug 2015

Ridiculous black nationalistic rhetoric coming from a naive mental midget.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
53. Here is a thread in which you were one of the straight people discussing gay people who dared
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:51 PM
Aug 2015

to use an Obama event as a platform. What could their motives possibly be? That question is of double interest considering so many who were so actively denigrating LGBT activists for being 'too rude to the wrong person' are now presenting as strong advocates of disruptive politics.

So what about that? Every last DUer seemed fully entitled to start OP after OP on the subject, mostly furious straight men.

There are many, many such threads with straight people who now support such activism saying 'anyone who at anytime or for any reason heckles anyone is a compete and total fool'.

So are you saying straights have that right? You took part, many times.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022957643

Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #53)

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
57. Oh dear god, that thread!
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:18 PM
Aug 2015

And the exchange I had with someone in it.

Man, sometimes I'm just as prescient as . . . anyone with the reasoning skills of an average twelve year old. But still!

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
62. Just read that thread. You were very prescient, as if you had seen into the future.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:19 PM
Aug 2015

It's fascinating to read the arguments there AGAINST hecklers and to read the arguments FOR them by some of the same people, today.

Either you have a crystal ball or you are correct, some things are just so predictable that even a 12 year old could do it!

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
64. Or some people hold individuals higher than oppression
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:29 PM
Aug 2015

It really is odd watching the BLM reaction vis a vis how protective people were of the Obamas against protest.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
67. So long as they are consistent.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:39 PM
Aug 2015

What I saw from that thread was a total flip flop on the issue of heckling as a legitimate method of protest, to the point of being remarkable.

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
61. Wow, that's a very interesting thread.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:54 PM
Aug 2015

Last edited Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Somehow or other I missed that episode.

So when the shoe's on the other foot, all this understanding that's being demanded is nowhere to be found. Why am I not surprised?

Very enlightening, thanks for posting it.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
34. I didn't know this - from in the article
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:31 AM
Aug 2015
(GOP Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell also marched with MLK).

Cool! For the record - I've always looked at McConnell as more of an opportunist than a bigot.

deathrind

(1,786 posts)
35. BLM had potential and...
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:33 AM
Aug 2015

Still does to some extent if it gets organized and some clarity in a roadmap to achieving the goals (a roadmap that already exists, has since the sixties). But those lady's jumping up on stage and acting like as they did and the evolving exclusionary tactics are not part of that roadmap.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
37. The problem is that BLM leadership is supporting the divisive actions so far
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:42 AM
Aug 2015

Which is fine if they want to go it alone...but they are demanding Democratic Party support, so they aren't actually going it alone.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
58. That guy must be a white liberal supremacist.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:24 PM
Aug 2015

On du all white people are racists, straights are homophobes, and men are misogynyists.

It's how we build coalitions here - tell people they suck and are bad when they are on your side anytime they don't completely agree with your view/assessment on something.

Been called all those things and worse on here by so called 'progressives' when I didn't always agree with them. Sad what has become of DU over the years, and it's worse now with the outright wars/hatred over dem candidates. We don't enemies, we rip ourselves better than anyone on the right every could.

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
59. I think it's time to let her go on DU
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:26 PM
Aug 2015

Attacking her does two problematic things:

1. It gives a misguided individual the attention she clearly craves.
2. It alienates sympathetic people who see this as a form of bullying.

The thing is, the ignoring approach is best. If this young woman wants to keep attention, she'll keep saying increasingly outrageous things. In the end, she'll take that one step too far, and that will be the end of that. People will rapidly disassociate.

I was more radical and mouthy when I was her age. I cringe at some of the shit I said. I would not want the world particularly examining and attacking me for it at that time. I give her slack.

But constantly highlighting and going after her is doing no one involve any favors. Not her, not us, and not Bernie Sanders.

She highlighted her cause, had a major candidate make some campaign adjustments, and got people talking. Awesome. Let's move on now.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
70. Black men apparently shouldn't talk on their own behalf.
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 05:36 PM
Aug 2015

Leave BLM to the scolds.

Well said, Mr Mudede.

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