Update on TTW and Yoshi

[magical thyme]

I heard back from TTW today. She is well and happy with her room and her housemate/landlord. As with all temping situations, she is in and out of work. When I first heard from her she was at the library filling out her time card for work. Right now, her latest contract is over and she's looking again.

She used the money that was recently donated to move Yoshi to a boarding situation near where she lives so she can visit him daily. She has some reason to hope that once she's more settled into her new living situation she will be able to keep Yoshi in her room at night and just doggy daycare by day.

I reminded her that "the best revenge is being successful somewhere else."

I'm wishing her well and hoping she finds decent, stable employment sooner rather than later, so she can begin to recover her independence.

[7wo7rees]

1. So is she sorry for Msanthrope and her x? Is she

truly appreciative of how DU came through for the 6th month? And why is it you this time you with an update? Where is MoosePoop?

Color me skeptical. There will continue to be requests. Honestly have never seen anything like this at DU, ever.

[CTyankee]

2. I have a request on ATA...will let you know what happens...

[Hekate]

35. Thanks

[Tess49]

36. Sorry, but what is ATA?

[pinboy3niner]

37. Ask the Administrators

A DU group in which DU's admins respond to questions from members:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1259

[Tess49]

55. Thanks!

[foo_bar]

5. look, I'm the biggest skeptic

But if she's actually doing OK-ish that's a pretty good start. Yeah, the Rashomon narrative is totally perplexing, but it's not like ms (or moose) are sockpuppets, I mean you can't fake the kind of ... whatever you call it that torch had in spades. It'd be like an iverglas sockpuppet, there's no way they could go Guy Incognito without gnashing their teeth into crumbs.

[magical thyme]

7. I am updating by my choice for those who were concerned about Yoshi

There was a lot of speculation when she took Yoshi back from the shelter about what would become of them.

When Yoshi was sick at the daycare 2 hours from where she lived, I donated a small amount. She emailed me thanking me and I emailed her back asking permission to update for those who were concerned about what became of Yoshi. That is all.

As to her feelings about Msanthrope, I wrote to her, and am writing here today, that I simply will not get into any she said/she said.

I have no idea where Moosepoop or anybody else is. If you have so much trouble with this update, and can't resist opening the threads, you can put TTW, Yoshi, and TorchTheWitch in the trash and the threads will be hidden.

[tblue37]

51. MT, I am the person who wrote the OP after Moosepoop's, the one saying Yoshi was in danger and

asking for help. Msanthrope and her ex then responded and tried to foster Yoshi, which was a noble, generous effort that did not work out. I was devastated when everything fell apart, and I have been sad and worried ever since.

Most of the $1100 donated that time came because DUers were so eager to help her save Yoshi, and at least for now, the money seems to have done what we donated it for, so not only do I NOT regret posting that OP about Yoshi, but I am downright glad we helped her enough to buy her and Yoshi a better situation for a while and maybe even long enough for her to find more steady work so she can afford to stabilize their circumstances. In fact, I will go to her GFM page later today, when at my desktop, and donate a little more.

I hope other DUers will do that, too. TTW is in truly difficult ciircumstances, and for whatever reason--whether because of the terrifying financial situation or because she is so frantic over the possibility of losing Yoshi, or whether she is inclined to misinterpret others' efforts to help as deriving from malice rather that genuine kindness--she has not always responded positively to others' attempts to help her. Since so many unnecessarily nasty posts have contaminated every thread by her or about her need for help, I can see why she feels under siege sometimes. And since she has been bombarded from the beginning with demands that she give up Yoshi (and even some insults about how selfish she is not to), I can also understand why she reacted so badly to msanthrope's and her ex's wonderful kindness and generosity when their attempt to take in Yoshi for long term fostering fell apart. I wish she had not so badly misunderstood their efforts and motives, but although her reaction was terribly unfair, I do understand how it could happen.

I hope that now she feels safe enough for a while to reconsider her reaction to them and to appreciate that they meant only to help, not to harm her or Yoshi. Many people have tried to help them, but none of us have put ourselves on the line the way msanthrope and her ex did, and I hope TTW can recognize that now.

Since it seems that TTW has used the money we donated to accomplish exactly what we were donating it for--i.e., to get Yoshi into a safer situation and to establish some degree of security for him--I don't think people should be ragging on her for having accepted the money and using it that way.

Frankly, not only do I plan to donate regularly to her GFM page, but I intend to increase the amount as soon as I can. I am paying down about $5000 in co-pays from a sudden ER visit leading to 2 unexpected surgeries in April. Unfortunately, as adjunct college faculty, I don't make much, and I have no real income for 3 and a half months from the end of May to mid-September, so I am stretched to the limit myself at the moment. But as soon as I start getting paid again, I plan to figure regular donations into my monthly budget. My donations this summer have had to be small, but they will increase a bit in size and frequency as soon as I am getting regular paychecks again.

So here's my plea to generous DUers who recognize how desperate TTW's and Yoshi's plight has been and who can understand why she can't bear to give up the being who is to her the only family and the dearest friend she has: Please don't let TTW's sometimes abrasive words and behavior cloud your eyes. Our donations *have* helped her and Yoshi survive. MT's OP indicates that the most recently donated money has been used to do exactly what we intended: Yoshi is in a safer place and now close enough for TTW to visit every day, so that his emotional well being is undoubtedly improved, too.

TTW is trying to work regularly and to save up for more permanent housing where she can keep Yoshi with her. Having a bit of a financial safety net can help her a lot. It is impossible to think clearly or to make reasonable long term plans when one is in a continual panic, especially if one is also susceptible to depression.

Though I have never had to deal with depression, I DID experience extended periods of financial panic and desperation for many years after being divorced when my kids were just 21 months and 3 years old. I bet a LOT of DUers have been through such periods of financial desperation.

Thank you, MT, for updating us. I really have been fretting over TTW and Yoshi. Things looked so scary right after she took him from the shelter.

I hope I am not the only one who plans to continue donating to her GFM page. I can't save the world, but I can at least do as much as I am able to offer a bit of hope to a human being and a dog whose plight I know about, even though I don't know them personally. One little candle, you know?

[nruthie]

52. You are a compassionate person with a rational opinion.

Unfortunately, perhaps the person being constantly discussed here is not a rational person.

[tblue37]

53. But she IS a person, she IS in real need, and she has used those most recent donations to do ex what

we intended them for, so I have no qualms about continuing to regularly donate as much as I can manage.

[msanthrope]

57. Any proof of that? Any accounting of paying the bills at the past doggie daycare?

As of last week, those bills were unpaid.

It is my understanding that the past landlord recently won a judgment, and past donations that had been used for the quixotic appeal are now in the hands of the landlord.

[KittyWampus]

96. You are not helping. You are ENABLING. You are actually HURTING TTW but allowing her

to keep on with her self-destructive actions.

By being part of the sickness and not having the objectivity and strength to stand back and let TTW hit bottom, you are hurting her.

[Tipperary]

69. These are excellent questions and I thank you for asking them.

I doubt we will receive any answers however.

[philosslayer]

3. And the saga continues.....

n/t

[closeupready]

4. I'm glad to hear this and wish her well, but

I'm tiring of the drama and exploitation, charges and countercharges. I don't think it should be allowed to go on here.

[magical thyme]

8. I wasn't aware I made any charges, countercharges or drama.

There was a lot of speculation when she pulled Yoshi from the shelter about how they would be on the street and he might attack somebody.

There were posters hoping for an update. I wanted to simply reassure people who were concerned that he is back in professional care, but a better circumstance than before.

As I wrote above, if you are upset by the threads, there is the trash function.

[KittyWampus]

11. And all you can do is share what you've been told by someone whose words

are highly unreliable.

But it says a lot that you care, you donated and thanks for that Magical Thyme!

No question you have a big heart and I respect you for that.

[JI7]

6. I'm glad she is doing well but not sure what you mean by revenge

[7wo7rees]

12. Revenge? Where in the heck is that coming from?

Revenge?
What the hell??
All I asked is if she might be sorry for the hell she put people through?
All I have said is I have never seen DU do quite so much or go so far to help someone.
There used to be rules preventing this, I believe these rules should be put back in place. Sorry.
I believe some really really caring people have been taken to the cleaners for months now!
Where is J_J_?

[yardwork]

13. I think that this comment is a response to the OP, not your post.

I also wondered about the reference to revenge in the OP.

Sometimes I wonder if this entire saga is the ongoing project of a writing club.

[PasadenaTrudy]

14. LOL! n/t

[daredtowork]

17. It might mean

TTW should focus on getting her life back together rather than dwelling on perceived wrongs, such as her everything her slumlord landlady got away with or Yoshi being taken to a shelter/rescue org. against her express wishes.

This is not to show lack of appreciation for MsAnthrope or Ex - just speculating on ways that phrase might benefit TTW.

[AngryOldDem]

19. Ever hear the quote, "Living well is the best revenge"?

I think what was said was a variation on that.

[yardwork]

20. But why the need for revenge at all?

The person in question has received thousands of dollars in donations from DUers, plus direct care for their pet. According to the people who helped, they've been repaid for their generosity and kindness with threats of legal action.

Bringing up revenge in this context strikes me as bizarre.

[AngryOldDem]

21. I don't know, and I don't care to delve into it.

I was just offering a possible explanation for that comment, is all.

[magical thyme]

28. I apologize for the lack of context

Last edited Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:26 AM - Edit history (1)

from TTW's various posts, there is anger at her former landlady, anger at various state aide people who she felt weren't helping her, anger at employers, with threats of lawsuits. And she feels betrayed my Msanthrope.

Her feelings may not be logical or rational, but that doesn't make them less real, consuming and fruitless.

I suggested to her that she try to let go of the anger so she can focus her energy on rebuilding her life. That is all.

[yardwork]

56. It may be helpful to google borderline personality disorder.

I am not a psychiatrist and in any case it's impossible to diagnose over the Internet, but that works both ways. It can be dangerous to believe everything we read.

I will share that I have several family members with borderline and other personality disorders. They can be very charming and charismatic, and then they turn. "Splitting" refers to the tendency to veer abruptly from perceiving others as wonderful "rescuers" to viewing them as malevolent "conspirators."

Nothing is ever the fault of the person with borderline personality disorder. Everyone eventually lets then down. Fortunately there is always another rescuer appearing on the horizon. This hero will save them! Until they too disappoint. And then it's time for rage and revenge - for a short time until the next drama incident.

I have decades of experience with this behavior, involving someone very close to me.

[magical thyme]

61. "I am not a psychiatrist and in any case it's impossible to diagnose over the Internet"

Which pretty much says it all.

I have a lifetime of intimate experience with people with "this behavior." I also have an aunt who never quite finished her PhD education under her mentor, Abraham Maslow. And my closest friend through my childhood and teens was ultimately diagnosed bipolar, which also happens to run in my family. Oh, and I worked directly for a psychologist for 18 months.

I am suspicious of psychiatric "diagnoses" because symptoms overlap between various disorders, are widely open to interpretation, and the diagnoses are re-defined periodically anyway.

"They can be very charming and charismatic, and then they turn."
I've yet to see TTW appear charming or charismatic, ever. That description was applied to Yoshi by Msanthrope's ex. Did you have TTW confused with her dog?

"It can be dangerous to believe everything we read. " Thank you for your concern but, frankly,
I provided a simple update on TTW and Yoshi for the benefit of some posters who had specifically asked me to update if I heard back from her.

That said:

I believe that TTW has been a member of DU since 2003, which her profile states.
I believe that she lives near Philadelphia, as she claimed and has since been confirmed.
I believe she fell into unemployment -- ie through the economic "trapdoor" -- within the last couple years based on my memory of prior posts from her.
In past years I noticed her occasional outbursts and puther on ignore because I considered her kind of nuts.
As far as I'm aware, she never asked for help before nor had extended rants of the type she's been posting until the last 6 months.
I believe she was evicted because she posted the eviction notice.
I believe Yoshi has kennel cough because Msanthrope posted that he does.
I believe that TTW retrieved Yoshi from the kennel. I expected that she would.
I believe that Msanthrope and her ex tried to help Yoshi, but I am surprised that anybody would take in a dog sight unseen without at least 1. doing 5 minutes of research into the breed's temperament and 2. immediately isolating the likely sick dog of a breed widely known to be potentially aggressive to other dogs and to cats.

I also know what it's like to fall through the "trapdoor economy" and imho, I believe the stress of losing all external stability is enough to push anybody who is not internally stable over the edge.

[msanthrope]

67. Excuse me....but you've gone a bit too far with regards to me and my ex.

The dog was not taken sight unseen....we had been assured by TTW that Yoshi was socialized to an environment with other pets and people, and never, ever had a problem with cats. Cats, that TTW knew about from a prior conversation with my ex.

Once Yoshi was actually around the cats, TTW revealed that she did not actually know how Yoshi was with cats because Yoshi had never been allowed around a cat. Any cats Yoshi had seen on walks were dealt with by TTW restraining him. One reason TTW doesn't like my dogwalker is because she called out TTW about the cat issue on the first night.

And while we are on that path---Yoshi had been with ex for a day when TTW decided to tell me that she really didn't know how Yoshi would behave around my 12 year old because Yoshi had never been allowed around children.

I think reliance on an unreliable narrator really shows through in your posts.

[SidDithers]

75. +1...

Anything posted based on information from TTW should be taken with a huge boulder of rock salt.

Sid

[Syzygy321]

245. your graciousness under pressure

Continues to inspire me.

You are good people.

[bettyellen]

79. Wow, to take what TTW says at face value is incredibly naive at this point. She is planning to

manipulate her new landlord into accepting a dangerous creature around a mixed group of people (old man and other tenants)
and not pay rent next week. Her stories have changed from post to post but the one common theme is- everyone else is plotting against her.

You're a big hearted person, but you need to wise up- and apologize to Misanthrope and Moosepoop. They have done more for TTW than you have. Whitewashing TTW's crap behavior is just going to prolong the dangerous situation for TTW, Yoshi, and her landlord.

[magical thyme]

87. I need to apologize? Um, I don't think so.

an back onto ignore you go.

[bettyellen]

91. Yes, Misanthrope and M-Poop stepped up tried their best. TTW deceived them on purpose about Yoshi

being safe to go into that house- knowing there were cats and kids involved. That is very fucked up. Kudos to Misanthrope for putting Yoshi first.
TTW admitted yesterday she is trying to manipulate her new landlord into feeling safe around Yoshi too. TTW is now putting her need for constant cash infusions before the health and welfare of that dog. You and Yoshi are both being used as a means to her ends- and she obviously does not give a shit that she maybe endangering many other people- as well as Yoshi with this cash grab. TTW needs some serious help - counseling as well as god know what else. The telethons are only helping her stay on a very dangerous path. You're not actually being kind at this point by whitewashing it.

[SMC22307]

181. That's pretty much where I am...

especially after reading this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027079710

[magical thyme]

24. movie line; a variant of "the best revenge is living well"

as others have suggested,it was within the context of suggesting that she try to focus on rebuilding her life. Anger and rage consume a lot of energy and time which would be better directed at finding work and regaining independence.

[JI7]

25. i know that but it does not fit these circumstances

[magical thyme]

26. you were not party to my email from her

as explained below, it does fit the circumstances.

[JI7]

27. i was party to post today and previous ones

[magical thyme]

30. then you are aware of the context

Instead of using her anger to strike out at others, use it to rebuild her life. Daredtowork nailed it earlier.

[JI7]

31. the problem is the anger towards certain people is not warranted

[magical thyme]

32. that is in your opinion from your perspective

that is not from her perspective. However irrational or wrong you think somebody else's feelings are, people have a right to their own feelings and their feelings have validity. That doesn't make it the right choice or best choice to act on them or to express them publicly. But they have a right to have them.

Even Msanthrope made it clear from her posts that she was not surprised at TTW's reaction and was concerned about what she might do.

[bettyellen]

86. Misanthrope is not surprised because TTW has been completely irrational and told conflicting stories

about Yoshi's temperament, her own circumstances etc etc. Many if the details in the stories blame others for miscommunication- but TTW failed to warn Misanthrope that she herself had feared many times over the years that Yoshi would attack others. She is currently running the same bullshit with her new landlord. So, TTW has deceived and endangered people and continues to do so, and no one is supposed to notice? Bullshit.

[narnian60]

9. Thank you.

[Yo_Mama]

15. Thanks - I'm glad to hear it. n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

16. thanks for the update. I wish her the best

[seveneyes]

18. doggy daycare by day?

I've never seen dog daycare for less than 30-40 bucks per day. Assuming 5 days a week, that is at least 600-800 bucks a month. It would take a pretty good and steady job to cover that on top of ones own rent.

[Sunlei]

22. $15 to $20 a day around here. Lots of people have a smaller place, self employed & dog walk/dog sit

It's a very nice family business if one is reputable, bondable and can care for animals without making 'mistakes'

[Sunlei]

23. Good news to know, thank you for the update.

[TDale313]

29. I genuinely hope things work out for her and Yoshi.

[840high]

33. I appreciate your update. Keep it up - there

are some on Du who really worry about her and her dog. Thank you.

[Quackers]

34. Just my two cents

I really think TTW could benefit from some psychological counseling. If she were to pursue that route, then I'm sure they would give her a letter for Yoshi as being an ESA(emotional support Animal). Then Yoshi would be covered under the ADA laws. Just be sure she understands the difference between a ESA and a service animal.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

38. I don't wish her well

not after what she wrote in her latest, now locked, thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027079710

I feel very worried for the gentleman who owns the house she is now living in. If I could warn him I would.

I do not wish her, or her nasty tempered dog, well.

[3catwoman3]

39. That latest screed , if it were spoken...

...rather than written, certainly seems to have elements of pressured speech.

[msanthrope]

47. Yes. Having spoken with TTW, you are correct. nt

[Hekate]

41. Holy shit, that's scary. She's still got it in for the 2 people who did their damnedest to help!

[msanthrope]

48. And it's continuing.....frankly, I wish TTW would put this much time and effort in job hunting. nt

[foo_bar]

44. yikes.

It's the cat's fault for getting in my non-aggressive dog's face! (Tho in fairness, it sounds like Mr. Ex & co weren't at all prepared for this endeavor beyond the good intentions part. Actually my first thought was that Ms. discovered a perfect-crime method of settling a score with her ex, not to get all Columbo about it, but there seemed to be exactly one photo of Yoshi in circulation and in it he's depicted with a blank shark-like stare as he disembowels some undifferentiated mammal with feline markings. Definitely not "good with cats" anyway.) It's the living personification of Chutzpah, reminds me of an old joke:

On a beach, there's a mom and her brat,
When a wave comes and knocks the kid flat.
At great risk to his skin,
Someone hauls the kid in,
But the comment from Mom? "Where's his hat?"

http://www.oedilf.com/db/Lim.php?Word=chutzpah

I'm leaning towards Codeine's theory but I don't think that changes anything, or it makes her any less deserving of practical assistance (or sympathy from afar, very afar), but I don't think society is equipped for the task, although I hope somebody writes their master's thesis about this debacle.

[msanthrope]

49. Okay--I laughed.....and told ex about your "perfect-crime" theory. Ex laughed and said

"You might do that to me. But you'd never risk the cats."

My dogwalker and my ex met TTW personally. They could not be more radically different people, and yet both of them would agree with Codeine's description.

[closeupready]

54. Is that right? Sad to hear that.

VERY sad to hear that. I've always considered her one of the better members here.

[bettyellen]

78. for a lot of people the "no help, just cash" + convoluted stories was an all too familiar combo....

typical addict behavior. She has needed doctors for physical problems for months, but has been carefully avoiding them.
And since anyone who has been there themselves knows the situation will be prolonged exactly as long as you throw money at it, their reactions here are not surprising at all.

[msanthrope]

83. Thus.....she needs help. Just not what DU can give. nt

[foo_bar]

140. I want to send her a few grand to see what happens

It'll be like Trading Places, except, "gawd, this rittenhouse square is a dump, I don't know how people manage" ... no, it would probably be a death sentence, but a really fun one! (Is that macabre? Torch really tugs at my heartstrings in spite of everything, I know she's easy to hate in sort of a Gollum way, but even if her damage is all self-inflicted it just points to a different problem.)

(TTW: if you're reading this, which I suspect you are -- shit, dude, you must be in a world of pain. I don't think anyone here really knows what you're going through, but I imagine it's far worse than what you're telling people, and you can't talk about it because you'll be judged harshly by people who don't know what it's like. You're a highly intelligent and resourceful person, but it feels like someone's holding a gun to this person and saying "now, speak slowly into the camera...", and no one knows the exact nature of this hostage-taker, but, really, he's not that into you.)

[TeeYiYi]

187. Send me a few grand...

...and I'll tell you what happens.

TYY

[snooper2]

198. So everything is cleared up...is it true about the big hole in the floor with a sign "Open Floor"

[msanthrope]

215. No.....the house has its original red pine flooring. From time to time, a

chunk of mortis falls out..... so you tape it over and every 6 months you sit down and you fill in the various holes.... its a Victorian era home so of course there is constant maintenance I actually learned how to do plaster work hell I can even make a plaster rose. funny thing at one point Torch was really interested in renting there

[bettyellen]

217. Wow, you dodged a bullet there, Ms. I hope she takes Yoshi to a vet today.

[msanthrope]

220. well it would make a nice break from contacting state agencies about me and my ex.

I s.uppose I'd be pissed off if the attempts weren't so freaking inept

[REP]

221. I know this is more your metier but

Please consider documenting all this. I hope it just ends, but just in case you ever need an RO. Coals to Newcastle I'm sure.

[msanthrope]

223. interesting a representative of one of the state agencies suggested same thing to me.

He then noted that he was carefully documenting his interactions on this particular file. Seems he recognize the type. interestingly enough I do have the name of the that Vet torch claims she last used.

[REP]

225. I think I recognize a pattern too

I would love to be wrong, but there was an implied threat in her latest logorrhea.

[msanthrope]

233. Oh no..... there are definite threats.

And she's acted on them. What I find amazing about OPs like this is that there are still people who are willing to suggest that members here get involved in the situation.

[REP]

237. It is astounding

Along with the posts suggesting that more money be forked over, even though apparently none of the last load of cash donated to care for the dog was used for that purpose, and apparently went down the rathole of fighting her former landlord (who probably deserves the money, but the dog is in urgent need of medical care and safe shelter).

I've only seen the veiled threats she's posted; I'm sure she's less oblique in her dealings with you. Be safe.

[yardwork]

239. Her latest OP sounds exactly like my relatives with borderline personality disorder.

If this IS one of her problems, the good news is that she may lose interest in you soon, when some new atrocity is done to her by another person or organization. The bad news is that she might wrap back around months later and renew the attack.

People with personality disorders believe the things they say. It's actually really sad. They are truly victims of their own self-imposed suffering.

I hope that TTW gets help, but even more, I hope that she leaves you and her other targets alone.

I understand what this feels like. I'm sorry that this is happening to you.

[bettyellen]

224. who in the world is going to help her pro-bono with a theft of dog food case?

I'm sorry to make light of it. You do not deserve any of this trouble. I worried about you stepping in because her anger is so immense she has no energy left for anything but stewing in it. It seems like looking for new targets is more of a priority than looking for work.

[msanthrope]

226. the sad thing is is that no one stole her dog food it was donated and then the shelter

Actually gave her more food.

I've been getting messages from people who bought more food. and I've been getting contacts from people who gave a lot regularly per month outside of the GoFundMe.

there isn't a lawyer in Pennsylvania who's going to take her case. but Pennsylvania does have a fairly remarkable Corporation for the aging......

[bettyellen]

228. I have no doubts it was not stolen. But I fear she is latching on to that and some other item-

a leash?- also missing now. Perhaps because she does have the dog in her possession it's something for her to grasp onto to further her grievance. But she seems quite disturbed to the point where she is issuing veiled threats over it.

" I already know who it was that took him there and what happened to his/MY belongings and they will be given back with "interest"... a LOT of "interest"."

What the actual fuck?

[msanthrope]

232. she wants civil damages from me X and dog walker. that's what she means by interest.

Apparently the great scheme is to have us charged criminally and then she can sue us civilly. law enforcement contacted me regarding this plan.

[Demit]

235. Isn't that kind of hare-brained? What damage did she suffer?

What are her losses? She's not out any money, and she has her dog back. What would "make her whole?"

[bettyellen]

236. So, X's post leads to her netting more than 1K out of concern for Yoshi and now she wants more...

this is pretty bizarre. In Feb/ March she was unable to google and social services on her own- including a local food pantry. But she can concoct elaborate schemes like this to extort money from you guys?

I think at this point she sees any solvent individual who will give her any kindness as someone to scheme more cash out of. She was certainly not upfront with you and X about Yoshi, and now her new landlord is in for a world of shit.

[alphafemale]

45. He will probably have to go through what the previous landlord did.

Sure would be interesting to hear HER side of the story now.

Wouldn't it?

[snooper2]

197. DU drama LOL, I love how everyone has a vested concern in this...

I donated $5....I must know what is happening!

[pnwmom]

40. Are you aware that she posted an OP herself today? And she doesn't sound "well and happy."

Not at all.

[Hekate]

42. Link is in post #38 for those interested

[betsuni]

46. Indeed.

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall -- at work
Caught on fire, broke its nose, slammed the bad hip into the floor
There's always more
Conspirators three gave not one single fart about Yoshi and thee
All the King's horses and all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

[REP]

58. Second pelvic region injury she's reported from a fall

A few months ago, she reported that she fell and broke her coccyx. Now she, at age 50, is claiming to have had a slip-and-fall that she fears might have broken her hip, any injury that usually occurs in much older women, yet she is able to sit on the floor.

[emsimon33]

43. Thank you for the update.

[tblue37]

50. I am so glad the money most recently donated has helped her get Yoshi into a better situation

closer to her for daily visits. I hope she can find steady work and a peramanent home for herself and Yoshi soon, before the money is gone.

[SheilaT]

59. How amazing.

She's happy in the same place where she was assaulted?

I also read TTW's own thread, in which once again everyone is out to get her. Lots of inconsistencies, such as "by contract" if she gives up the dog it has to go back to the breeder except the breeder is more or less out of business and couldn't take in anything. And it's impossible to tell if the hellish place that Yoshi was in was the one TTW herself place the dog in, or the one manthrope's ex took him to.

Oh, and if she really did fall and get hurt at the one job (and it's completely impossible to tell just what it was), then she's going to get worker's comp, assuming the injury is accurately described. Worker's comp denials take weeks, if not months to go through the system.

There's also an interesting pattern of TTW reaching out to various members here and getting assistance. Magical Thyme, do be on guard that TTW doesn't turn against you as she has everyone else so far.

[treestar]

60. This ^^^^^^^^^

It's strange she already lost a job by a means which does not seem credible under law. I think it's a worker's comp penalty to fire someone because they were injured on the job. Sounds like one of those people who simply cannot get along with anybody, thus becoming unemployable. Here she is in a new job, already having troubles with the people there. I bet she qualifies for disability on mental health grounds. Yet all the social workers were also wrong, incompetent, etc.

Reminiscent of that homeless poster Pitt threatened. No matter what people did to help they ended up on the poster's shit list in time.

[SheilaT]

64. She seems to have cycled through

quite a few jobs in about a month's time.

Long term temp job at a medical supply company. Not sure what happened to that, although she was having car issues and apparently living in a shelter. This was the beginning of July.

Then she had some temp job that lasted a week or less.

Then the very short lived one where she fell and hurt herself and was immediately fired but no Worker's Comp.

Then filling out a time card at the library. My experience in temping is that your employer fills out the time card, and you take it to the temp agency at the end of the week or the job. You don't just fill it out in some random location.

Plus, if she's getting temp jobs through an agency, they would very much want to know about unsafe conditions and such.

Once again, lots of stuff that doesn't quite add up.

[NBachers]

251. Plus, she caught on fire on the job.

[treestar]

264. I have an aunt who is somewhat like this, though functional

and have met others like it. Everything happens to them. There's always a drama. They just so happen to be the one to catch on fire.

[magical thyme]

63. How amazing indeed.

I wrote nothing about anybody being assaulted, I wrote nothing about anybody getting injured on a job.
You may want to go re-read my OP. I suggest that you reply to actual threads, instead of using one thread to post what you are unable to post in another, locked thread. Otherwise, you might really get people confused.

"do be on guard that TTW doesn't turn against you as she has everyone else so far."

Thank you for your concern but it is not necessary. If TTW lashes out and writes bad things about anonymous me on the internet, it really won't make one whit of difference.

[SheilaT]

65. No, but msanthrope did.

So did TTW herself in the thread she started yesterday. The one that was locked. The link to it is posted above, and it would behoove people to go ahead and read it.

[magical thyme]

66. which is exactly what I said.

[SheilaT]

68. This makes the 16th thread

about TTW and her trials and tribulations. Unless I've missed some.

[magical thyme]

72. AND YOUR POINT IS?

What? 16 opportunities for you to spread hatred of somebody who appears to be very disturbed?

Take it somewhere else, ST. I'm putting you back on ignore. Don't know how you fell off to begin with...

[SheilaT]

101. Oh, good.

Put me on ignore so you don't have to read anything that casts doubt on TTW's many convoluted and contradictory stories.

Actually, above you said you'd had TTW on ignore because of rants in earlier years. Why in the world did you take her off?

[beaglelover]

94. People LOVE to watch a trainwreck. Human nature!

[pnwmom]

185. TTW wrote about being assaulted by her housemate, and about getting injured on the job.

Maybe you should update your OP now that you've read TTW's own most recent post.

She doesn't sound like she's doing well.

[bettyellen]

74. she made over a grand last week w/ the last Yoshi drama, but has no money for the veterinarian or

rent she says is due in a few days. Yoshi is ill but she saved not a dime for his health? She thought he was dying- didn't she?

She is hoping her new landlord will be manipulated into allowing Yoshi to roam free on his property while she is not there. She says she now has nothing to pay him later this week. So, the landlord will be next horrible vicious person when he stands up to her and asks her for rent, or to respect his rules about Yoshi. She should be looking for another place rather than hope to manipulate her landlord, but she is planning on running a game on him instead. And no one knows where the thousand dollars just went, but some should have been saved for that sick dog- he earned it.

She also has admitted medical issues (both physical and metal ones) but has been completely avoiding any medical help- which also seems to fit in with the idea she is tweaking. (As two real life do-gooders now think is the situation after seeing her)

Her last post was designed to milk more money out of DU -to help Yoshi -so at this point it appears she is using that dog to grift. I imagine she will leave more unpaid bills and spend the Yoshi money on whatever it is helping her feel like she can run this game forever.
It's not helping her one bit. I feel bad for the landlord, if he only knew. If she is telling the truth of things, she could be the cause of him losing that property, because she has no current plan or ability to pay him.

[Picking Dem]

175. So I was watching this show called "Dr. Jeff: Rocky Mountain Vet"

His place "Planned Pethood" recently allowed a homeless guy pay his way to fix his dog's broken paw - only charged him $100. Homeless guy paid $10 every visit so he can make sure the dog's splint was properly in place. Waived the $40 after six weeks.

Makes me wonder if there's a vet somewhere in TTW's area that might do the same.

[Sunlei]

193. a suggestion would be to pay for a background check before more involvement.

Sometimes people have a long history that shows exactly what kind of person one is dealing with.

[SiobhanClancy]

62. This saga has really opened my eyes.

I made a small donation early on as I identified with the situation, being in a somewhat similar one myself...living on the edge, financial issues, health problems and being pretty much alone in the world other than my cat Scarlett. I am humbled by the kindness of so many toward a stranger, especially Msanthrope and the ex..and appalled at their generosity has been repaid so shabbily. All this has inspired me to make a solid plan for Scarlett should I become incapable of caring for her. I adore her..she's the sweetest, most loving cat I've ever had.It's up to me to take care of her in the best way possible, not for her to take care of me. I don't believe that the situation for Yoshi and his human will be resolved until some basic issues are dealt with, and any money to keep the current state of affairs will not come from me. Please excuse any grammar or spelling errors. .am doing this on my phone and am not very good at it.

[msanthrope]

85. Would you make an OP of this post.....the issue of care of pets is

Important to get lost in this thread.

[OneGrassRoot]

97. I was going to suggest the same...an OP for this post. n/t

[Tipperary]

70. Magical Thyme, have you read TTW's latest OP, which is now locked? I think you should.

It does not appear that she is "well and happy." Nor is the poor dog. Her post also appears to me to be a set up for yet another begging position. I feel sorry for the man who opened his home to her. She is calling people who tried to help her "conspirators." It seems someone is always "conspiring" against her. I do not think her posts belong on the DU any more because all they do is create more meta drama.

[magical thyme]

71. you may want to read through this entire thread before

writing. I already made it clear I have read her now locked thread,which was posted *after* I posted this thread.

I am aware of her feelings about the people who tried to help her. I wrote at the start, and I am writing again, I will not get into she said/she said.

If you think her posts do not belong on DU, then you are free to alert on them. Except somebody already beat you to it. And again, YOU AND OTHERS ALWAYS HAVE THE OPTION OF TRASHING TTW AND YOSHI, AND PUTTING TTW ON IGNORE to protect you from her "meta."

Seriously, what the fuck do you want from me? I posted an update for the people who were concerned about whether she and Yoshi were living under a bridge.

[Tipperary]

73. I did not mean to offend you and I expect nothing from you. I did read the thread but I must have

missed the part where you said you had read the locked thread. If you did, then can you explain the discrepancies in her op and yours? It is simply confusing to read that you said she told you she was "well and happy", but according to her own op she is not anywhere near well and happy. I am just confused at those discrepancies and apparently I am not the only one.

I came late to TTW's plight, but I have since read the continuing saga thanks to a kind DU poster who sent me links to all the previous threads. I do not believe anything she says or writes. I just do not. I have not alerted on your op nor will I do so. I have not been a member long enough to really understand the alert/jury process.

[magical thyme]

76. any explanation of discrepancies would be pure speculation on my part

I posted the update for people who were concerned that they landed in the street when she took Yoshi out of the shelter.

[Tipperary]

80. I understand that now and again I did not intend to offend you. You seem like one of the good ones

here on the DU and I would hate to see you suddenly become one of the "enemy" according to TTW, who seems to turn against everyone who attempts to help her. The whole thing is very sad and when I read her locked thread, well, I was actually shocked by some of the things she said. That does not reflect upon you and if it seemed that I was suggesting that, then I do apologize for that.

[magical thyme]

82. No need to apologize...

I don't share your concerns. My small gift to TTW was an anonymous gift from a stranger; no strings or expectations attached. Enough to buy some kibble when she took Yoshi back from the shelter. I don't anticipate being seen as the "enemy" because I didn't take her dog, nor tell her she should give her dog away because she can't provide a good enough life for him.

I'm not of the contingent here who believes that she is a grifter; the content of her posts tell me a very different and sad story. Note that she's been on DU for 12 years; this saga started just in the last 8 months.

I've fallen through the economic trapdoor twice in my life. Ime, it is enough to push anyone close to the edge right over.

[beaglelover]

88. She probably bought a dime bag with your and others recent donations......

clearly none of that money went to the poor dog. I would not give one more penny to this addict.

[magical thyme]

89. and onto ignore you go. nt

[CountAllVotes]

253. +1

Good on ya! I hope that TTW gets a job and most importantly for her sake and for Yoshi's sake a good clean safe place to live!

This is a sad situation indeed!

[zappaman]

123. Jury results

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Sun Aug 16, 2015, 01:36 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

She probably bought a dime bag with your and others recent donations......
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7082952

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

TTW has been a contributing member here for over a decade, and especially providing great posts in the pet forum, many, many regarding her Yoshi clearly showing how much she loves him. Bought a 'dime bag?' Cruel, hurtful, OTT, and IGNORANT. From a new poster, no less.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Aug 16, 2015, 01:46 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Great, just what we need here- another hater.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This post is in really bad taste, but I don't think for that reason it should be hidden. Let it hang there and be a source of chronic embarrassment to the author.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Very cruel comment for someone who is struggling.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Admittedly ignorant, but think it was said for effect, not to be cruel.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Beaglelover is right. Leave It Alone.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The truth hurts. TTW needs help and I'm sick of this fleecing of good DUers. And Magical Thyme should self delete this thread.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[bettyellen]

125. Is that you, number #7?

[zappaman]

127. I'm one of the 7, yes.

We had band practice last night.
Hope you had a good excuse for not being there...

[bettyellen]

129. I need to restring my tambourine! How are Nikki's vocals coming along?

[zappaman]

132. She's much more confident.

And really sounding like an even more energetic Janis.
All coming together nicely!

[bettyellen]

137. Love to here Nikki screeeeeeeaaaam! Yeah!

[Tipperary]

113. You are a good-hearted person. I know you are an animal lover because of your posts that I have read

I am an animal lover too. We all get to draw our own conclusions. There have been a number of posters who have donated and I know they do it from the goodness of their hearts. That trapdoor is a real one. I am sure she appreciates your help and concern. I frequently give to the homeless and beggars (not trying to use a pejorative term, I just cannot think of another) who I see on the streets. I do not ask them what they intend to use the money for. Sometimes I will buy a sandwich instead of giving money for one fellow I see a lot. But I do understand.

[SMC22307]

183. I'm worried about Mr. Turtle and the old landlord on the brink of losing his home.

Last edited Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:49 PM - Edit history (1)

And Yoshi, of course, with his green goo. He needs to be with an Akita no-kill rescue, and whatever vets they partner with.

Providing *any* of this is true, of course.

[cwydro]

77. OMG.

This again???

[mentalsolstice]

81. Any updates about Yoshi are appreciated!

Although large aggressive breeds aren't my thing, I hate to see any dog being neglected, mistreated, or placed in unsafe circumstances (for him and others). I'm concerned for his health, as he was last described as having "green goo coming out of his nose." So even if TTW is "well and happy," it doesn't seem things are so good for Yoshi. Hats off to those who have attempted to step in and assist with his care.

[magical thyme]

84. per Msanthrope, he had kennel cough

that takes a couple weeks to clear up. Antibiotics help, but it can clear up on its own. Its unfortunate that he's not in an ideal situation, but being with his human in an imperfect situation is arguably better than being with strangers in an outwardly perfect setup.

[KittyWampus]

93. You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. Being in a stable, healthy home

with someone who knows the Akita breed and can TRAIN them and make certain the dog does not harm anyone else is better.

Being with an owner who is unstable, unable to pay for proper vet care/dog food, unable to train their dog to be non-aggressive is the WORST THING for Yoshi.

TTW, from all her own words and the observations of others who HAVE SEEN THE INVOLVED PARTIES IN REAL LIFE, is a selfish dog owner who thinks her animal is there solely for her emotional needs and obviously thinks nothing of using her dog to grift money from others.

You don't know TTW. You've never met her. All you've done is exchange some emails and accepted what she says as reality.

I respect your capacity to care for someone else.

But you do NOT know TTW.

[bettyellen]

99. The fact that Yoshi earned her 1K this month alone- and not a cent went to veterinary care for him cinches it.

As does her plan to pawn off Yoshi daycare on her unsuspecting landlord. More people to place in harms way thoughtlessly.
She does not seem to care a whit about that dog, she is endangering his life and allowing his health to fail when she had cash in hand.

I know she is in a dark place- but that is where sane people have to draw the line- risking their lives for someone who does not give one shit. No.

[mentalsolstice]

95. I'm not a veterinarian

However, most vets and responsible dog owners will tell you that green nasal discharge signifies that Yoshi's kennel cough has turned severe and if not treated can turn into pneumonia. In the past few weeks Yoshi has been placed in circumstances that were not healthy or safe for him and those caring for him, and their pets and children. To put it in the friendliest terms possible, my concerns are for Yoshi and any truthful updates about him are appreciated, and thanks to you and others for doing so.

[DawgHouse]

100. And since his case sounds complicated, you're looking at

about two to three weeks of treatment before he can be around other dogs in a kennel situation.

[mentalsolstice]

110. The green nasal discharge

was described by his owner, http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7079710 . However, it sounds as though she is taking a wait and see approach because of lack of money (?). A google search "kennel cough green nasal discharge" yields numerous sites advising this is a severe case which needs treatment with antibiotics, or it can turn into pneumonia. I'm afraid that we'll be reading of Yoshi's demise sooner than later. Even if he were offered to an Akita rescue at this point, it may be too late as he may be deemed too unhealthy.

ETA: By the looks of Yoshi probably hasn't seen a vet for his annual vaccinations as he would have received a bordetella shot at that time. I'm surprised either doggie day care centers accepted him without vet records in hand.

[a la izquierda]

169. FWIW, bordatella vaccines can be pretty worthless.

Granted, all three of mine get theirs updated a few weeks before going to board. But once, my dog- who was vaccinated- got it. Three weeks later, my other dog got it, and he was also vaccinated.

The nasal discharge is very worrisome. I never had to put my dogs on anything other than some cough suppressants so that they could rest. But I also prioritize my dogs' wellbeing before anything else, pretty much.

[mentalsolstice]

170. My point...

Yes the effectiveness of the vaccine is questionable. However, when boarding my dogs, or even getting them bathed at a groomer, we've always had to show that they had the vaccine within the past 6 months. I would rather go with caution...just like enrolling children in school who are up on their vaccinations.

ETA: It makes me feel better knowing that kennels, groomers, etc. want proof of vaccinations.

[a la izquierda]

179. I agree completely. Nt

[Drahthaardogs]

243. You are correct.

If you kennel your dog, you can expect them to come back with kennel cough roughly 1/3 of the time. However, I do think the vaccinations make it pretty mild.

[magical thyme]

105. in which case, hopefully she'll pursue veterinary treatment sooner rather than later

(assuming that he really does have a green nasal discharge.)

I'm not a veterinarian either, but not knowing anything about his vaccination history and knowing that he was exposed to "something" at the daycare, it could also be distemper.

He should have been isolated as soon as he was removed from that situation. Maybe it's my background with horses and with birds, but I have always quarantined sick animals or any that came to me from questionable places...

Twice my old gelding ended up sick when I boarded him out and either owners or other boarders violated quarantines. And when I first rescued my cockatoo, she spent a year in quarantine in my bedroom, with me washing up and changing clothes between handling her and my other birds, until we got to the bottom of her high white count.

[beaglelover]

90. I feel sorry for those who recently sent her over $1,000 bucks. None of it went to help the dog...

it apparently all went into her veins or up her nose. This TTW woman is a total lost cause. Unless she grows up and seeks mental health, she is going to get what she deserves.

[El Jefe II]

102. It would be best all around...

..if she found the dog a good home and then sought help for herself. She has issues and isn't doing a good job of caring for herself, let alone her pet. I have no way to know if her problem(s) are mental, emotional or if she suffers from addiction, but its clear she has no business owning the animal.

Just my two cents.

[beaglelover]

103. Agree 100% She's being extremely selfish at the moment and as someone else said in this

thread, she doesn't really give a shit about the dog. He's just an easy way for her to scam money from ignorant people to fuel her addiction.

[trueblue2007]

139. YOU HAVE SPEWED OUT CRAP LIKE THIS BEFORE.

Why the crap are you being so mean here? You. Know. Nothing.

[bettyellen]

104. She has learned that he is a money maker. 1K because he was sick- yet not a dime spent at the vet.

Poor dog. She owes him better.

[Sunlei]

195. She could always have posted the name of a Vet & people could 'pre-pay' the Vet directly.

I agree the poor dog, bounced around from place to place and having to deal with an owner who a lot of the time is an emotional wreck.

Amazing how restrained and good the dog actually acts with that kind of unstable 'life' .

[PasadenaTrudy]

98. Man!

I think some people here need to get to an Al-Anon meeting! I grew up with a sister who was a heroin addict, and trust me, sometimes it's best to just back off and let the chips fall where they may. She did hit bottom, one of many, and got clean and sober. Took over 20 years, but it did happen.

[Butterbean]

177. Read my mind. Watching this whole thing go down has been frustrating.

I just shake my head reading this whole mess. Seen it happen over and over again IRL.

[mentalsolstice]

184. Yep! nt

[daredtowork]

106. Try to remember no one here knows anything

I've tried to stay circumspect and offer advice for someone stating the situation TTW says she's going through.

It seems inappropriate for people to make judgments like she is doing drugs or whether she has particular psychiatric diagnoses or whether she has or has not particular experiences. If you have zero income and are thrown on the mercy of whatever you can get, you may indeed be going through bad experiences.

If you object to TTW trying to deal with her situation by asking for money here, you can ignore it.
(Here is the locked post, I agree it's a "subtle ask": http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027079710 )

I'm personally in favor of TTW posting here because it allows people to talk openly about some of the gaps in the system, and knowledge of those gaps might enable you to answer Republican critiques about "welfare queens" or "people being on SSI because they are depressed" or people instantly having a place to go when they are homeless. I think it's important to see these things.

Those of you who are tired of the "continuing story" don't have to read it. Those who think this is insight on what happens to people when they lose everything in the US might want to stick with the "continuing story".

[bettyellen]

107. Sadly Misanthrope and Moosepoop have direct experience w/ TTW and her situation.

[daredtowork]

111. Yes but they can take care of themselves

Does Msantrhope really need DU to take her side against TTW, given TTW's situation?

I don't follow this closely, so I don't know if TTW got back in touch with Moosepoop or if she still feels burned after she almost lost Yoshi. Moosepoop tried very hard to help TTW, and of course she is owed gratitude. I do think it's unfair to underestimate TTW's feelings about Yoshi in this picture. But as I said above, I'm trying to stay circumspect in my own speculation about TTW's feelings: I've mainly come in with a "defense" of TTW when I felt that some egregious attack was being made on her to suit the purposes of someone on DU - i.e., it had nothing to do with TTW.

The entire situation is very meta me for me: not because I don't care about TTW - she *seems* to have gone through a situation I can very much identify with, and I can therefore recommend a lot of resources regarding it. However, since this is an Internet forum, we can never get that depth knowledge: and that includes negative judgments as well.

If we are people of good will, we can try to nudge TTW in the right direction for her LOCAL resources.

Just as importantly, and why I support TTW being allowed to continue to post here, is that we can acknowledge those LOCAL resources may not exist. We can discover that through attempting to help TTW. That's a political problem. That expands are awareness and helps us promote change. And if that prompts some people to reach out and help TTW personally, why stand in their way? Msanthrope's experience will probably dissuade them, but that example is there on the record now. There's no need to go in and make up extra stories about TTW being on drugs, etc.

[Facility Inspector]

115. You care enough

to work behind the scenes to try and get people booted from the site who disagree with you about this.

Everyone who is skeptical about this has been vindicated, it's curious why you continue to support this person.

[bettyellen]

116. Misanthrope is still being vilified as conspiring to dog-nap and dog food thief. Very detailed accusations

were made, and I do believe at this point that Misanthrope was misinformed about Yoshi, and it led to endangering her ex, their kid and their pet. In addition, the police were called to investigate this "dog theft".

That is hella fucked up, and anyone here considering helping her needs to know that TTW has backed away from calling Yoshi an "attack dog" who might bite anyone, to a safe and suitable companion to have in their home- because it suits her current need to do so.
She is putting Yoshi's life in danger, as well as Ms + MP, and now- her new landlord and their tenants as she hopes they will provide daycare to Yoshi soon.

People inundated her threads with great local resources, job leads, offers for lodging and all sorts of other help- all ignored, she wanted money. She has physical and medical issues that need attention and could go to a clinic for- but will not. She had just 1000. donated to Yoshi's care since he was sick, but was shilling for more money to (finally) get him to a vet yesterday.

She actually complained angrily that the thread filled with resources (in February) was too big to read. So she did not bother. We cannot force her to use services, she already knows of them and showed no interest in anything but cash. We can't get her to be rational and take care of herself. But if she uses that dog as a fundraising device and blows the money elsewhere while Yoshi is still sick, yes she should be called on it. If she rewards people who did their very best to help her and Yoshi with threats of lawsuits and visits from the police- people here should know that too.

I too wish we had housing and services like the UK, but DU cannot do that for her. I worry for her dog and her landlord both, as she cannot seem to help but hurt all those around her right now.

[daredtowork]

121. Then you should back away

It's clearly upsetting you a great deal that TTW isn't using the resources provided, that other people from DU have given her money, and that Msanthrope was mistreated in all this. You wish you could do more, but you can't from here.

All you can do is accept the limits of what you can do and do what you are willing to do. It's up to TTW to do the rest to help herself.

[bettyellen]

124. And you should stop giving unsolicited advice to (not upset at all) posters here. No one likes

unsolicited advice. I am just telling it how it is, as the OP left out very significant parts of the big picture. :smile:

[daredtowork]

130. These posters are calling her a "drug addict" and a "scammer" and mental illness claims

That's who my "unsolicited advice" was primarily aimed at. And I stand by that.

My remarks to you were because you replied directly to me, not random unsolicited advice. I thought you might want to back off because you seem distressed. Not reading seems a good option in that case.

I'm not sure what your "smile" is all about it. Is there something you would like to tell me in a PM that you don't want to say here?

[REP]

138. Perhaps you should take a break?

Maybe this whole subject is a little too close to home for you, and it's upsetting for you to read - to the point where you are advising not to give diagnoses and then you diagnose someone else as "distressed."

Take care of yourself, and take a little break. You've got enough to deal with with your own case.

[daredtowork]

143. Okay how would you advise me to reword it?

I don't see that is a psychological diagnosis: bettyellen was exhibiting concern for TTW and the fact she couldn't do anything for TTW. I regard that as "distress", but I'm open to improved terminology.

I feel no need to take a "break" nor to take orders from you.

[REP]

145. It is a diagnosis

So just keep it to yourself.

I'm so sorry you thought I was giving you an "order." I was making a suggestion because this topic seems to make you unhappy and angry sometimes, like in your response to me just now. I've read about your ongoing struggles with SSI and having just won a protracted thing with SSDI over their clerical error, I know how frustrating the waiting for the next move can be.

[daredtowork]

147. It's probably more my style of writing

I don't use passive voice much when I write, and that tends to come across as "fighting words".

This topic is frustrating to me because I see a lot of unwarranted judgments come down on TTW. I don't want to defend her too much because some of those judgments could be true (I don't know). However, TTW is in a desperate situation, and I don't think she should be blamed for doing whatever she can to try to get out of it. Also, people are largely unaware of how few resources there are for someone in TTW's situation.

I really hope TTW's posts aren't banned from DU simply because those lack of resources need to be discussed. It's so hard to get that on the radar. This situation is an opportunity to do that (and if TTW happens to get some resource tips or a few bucks thrown her way, that's all for the god.) The complicating element of what happens to the dog can also be a larger policy question.

But how can we take it to the next level? Is there someone in Philadelphia who will ask about welfare and mental health infrastructure there? Is there someone in PA who will ask about State-wide funding of welfare and mental health infrastructure? Is it worth asking what happened to Federal funding of welfare and mental health infrastructure? Local community agencies have no money anymore: instead of complaining about drama, we should take note of that.

[SheilaT]

157. Do you really think she'd be willing

to get counseling or therapy? When she blames everyone around her for everything? Even if she could be involuntarily committed, which is not going to happen, she wouldn't be willing to do the work necessary to address her problems. And that's assuming she's not just cleverly presenting herself so as to gain maximum sympathy. And money.

[daredtowork]

163. None of our business at this point

It's TTW's life: she will end up seeking out resources on her own as other channels close off.

[bettyellen]

142. People who have never faced this behavior in real life, cannot recognize the pattern...

But those who have been put through the ringer with this in real life, it is all very familiar.
And whether they can feel any empathy at all it does't matter, they know that they are enabling a situation that is untenable. She is unable to get along with anyone at the moment because of this emotional turmoil and paranoia. Two dozen people are not out to get her, but as long as we enable these notions and pay her to pretend to take care of a dog (because she surely is not- he is very ill as of yesterday), she will remain unemployed and her dog will suffer more. She needs to make some gutsy choices and admit she is not doing right by Yoshi, or herself by continuing in a bad situation. Her plans to scam doggy daycare out of her landlord are an indication of how wrongheaded she is. After what happened with M+M she ought to know better.

[daredtowork]

146. It will probably backfire

But again, I think there is nothing we can do from here.

TTW has to learn this lesson for herself. I don't know what options are available to allow her to keep what she has on her terms, but she has to find them. There is no one there to help her. It seems like she cut ties with the last of her family.

Is there a St. Vincent de Paul in her area? They are very good with hooking people into a lot of services at once. It might make a difference if she just walks in. Particular churches associated with Catholic Charities often run "mega help centers". St. Anthony's in San Francisco, for instance.

Anyway, I agree with your take. I'm just saying that we can't do anything about it.

[bettyellen]

151. If you go back to the first two threads- February and March I think? Others here googled dozens of

sources of nearby help and sent her links, phone numbers and addresses, both posting and in PMs.
Except for the free legal services she used to try to fight her landlord, she seems not to have availed herself of any of them. She complained there were too many posts on the thread and she couldn't read them all. And stressed needing money. Someone had to point her to a food panty within a mile of her house after a couple of months, but she said it was too far and needed money for gas. She still has access to this info. Hopefully she is signed up for some relief money, and will not push things with her new landlord and create another crises because she does need an address. He wants rent, and does not want Yoshi, so again- this is very unstable for them both now.

For some reason she said she was supposed to be signed up for housing (and blamed someone for the snafu) but we all know the real reason is that they cannot let her bring Yoshi. So she never fixed that and signed up for housing. No need to blame social services for that one, but she did.

There are tons of groups of Akita owners if she would try and work with them and agree for a temp foster- people do it all the time for pregnant or terminally ill pets, etc. The thing is they do care about animals and may not agree to her terms- getting him back even if she has no place to bring him and she herself presents in a frightening state. They will not want to get involved with someone who is combative and a poor caregiver as well who will demand the dog back on a whim. She needs to pull it together and know that as heartbreaking as it is, doing all of this totally "on her own terms" is not going to happen. In Britain, it could, but not in America.

[daredtowork]

161. I'm not disagreeing with you

I'm just saying there's not much we can do about that. TTW is an autonomous person doing the best with what she's got.

[SheilaT]

154. St. Vincent de Paul was recommended

to TTW back in the first few threads. Somehow, she never hooked up with them.

Every time she comes back, or someone comes back on her behalf, it's for more money.

Rereading the earliest threads, or reading them for the first time, might help. Anyone can PM me for the links. I won't simply put them here, because I'm sure I'll then be accused of trying to tell people not to give her money. I've never said that, but I have said that people need to look carefully at everything TTW herself has posted, especially all the excuses about why she couldn't take all of the very good advice given her from the very beginning.

And that doesn't even address her refusal to allow Yoshi to be re-homed in a stable, permanent place. Certainly, for now, he's a gold mine, because people who might not give her money directly, will donate if they think it's being used for him.

[daredtowork]

160. I'm not denying that at all

TTW is indeed telling her story her so she can crowdfund her way out of her problems.

What I'm against is passing judgment on the nature of TTW's problems based on the fact she's "Internet panhandling" as a resolution. The problem is there isn't much of a social services or community agency infrastructure left to help her.

We don't know if she went to St. Vincent de Paul. She would have to go on certain days and at certain times for resources. There are transportation factors. Here they offer hygiene kit baggies, podiatry checks and free shoes, access to laundry machines, and lunches. Sometimes they will pay utility bills (you have to stand in line). There is a bulletin board with phone numbers to other services. The reason I suggested them is that they can point to other services in the area. But we don't know if she went there or what they had to offer.

It's worth throwing out there again if she runs out of money.

For those who judge TTW for raising a couple thousand dollars, remember this guy raising $55,000 to make potato salad:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/28/potato-salad-kickstarter-party_n_5893386.html

Perhaps TTW should have offered to make potato salad instead of telling the world she was unemployed and about to be evicted and revealing so much about her personal struggles.

[SheilaT]

166. If she went to St.Vincent de Paul

she certainly never reported back that she had done so.

She was advised about all sorts of programs and help, and never seems to have bothered to avail herself of any of them.

In fact, St. Vincent de Paul was one of the very first suggestions given to her, along with setting up a GoFundMe page.

In case you haven't read it, here's the link to her very first request for money, meaning the first thread she started that began this entire lengthy saga: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026221474 (It was started Feb 13, 2015)

[CTyankee]

152. I feel this thing has gotten way out of hand.

The purpose of DU is not to act as her mentor, counselor, doctor, veterinarian. There are going to have to be some rules put around these things, just like we have in our various groups and forums. I have contacted the admins through ATA and hope some action can be taken. After all, it is their website and they make certain rules all the time. Well, it is time for action on rules here.

[bettyellen]

153. I think they do not want to judge though, but it has gotten to a point where DUers have endangered

themselves trying to help, maybe that should be the tipping point. I don't know what the right thing is.
I wish she could find a nice place for Yoshi so she could move on and get the help she needs.

[CTyankee]

155. But she is also badmouthing DU saying it would be a party in selling her dog...

This would be a purely business decision. Nothing to do with being judgmental. Also, reputation matters, too.

[bettyellen]

159. Selling? Oh wow, I thought it was just dog napping and dog food stealing.

Could she really believe people would pay anything for a sick and hostile dog? Oh man, that is sad.

[CTyankee]

162. This situation is out of our control and DU's. If she is going to tell authorities that

DU is somehow going to be a conveyance for selling her dog, that is a serious issue. Reputation and even liability could be at risk here. This is not a case of one DUer disagreeing with a hide or a thread shutdown. This is not "whining about DU."

But the action they take is their decision solely. And so be it.

[bettyellen]

171. that is a good point. although I seriously doubt she is presenting as credible

to anyone in authority right now. I can see how she could get legal aide help for the housing issue- but this?
I don't think it is going anywhere. But I get your larger point. It's not good for DU.

[REP]

176. I'm not sure if that is a concern

There was recently a fundraising thread for a member convicted of possession of child pornography, which seems more deleterious to reputation than spurious claims made by someone of dubious credibility about a board-wide dog-napping scheme.

[CTyankee]

189. OMG, I don't recall seeing that! Ugh. You are right...that is serious stuff...

[tammywammy]

190. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027011754

[CTyankee]

194. I haven't been following his story so I don't know whether he is in therapy or what.

But it is very ugly.

That said, I do not give to these appeals and wish they were put in a dedicated space on DU as I have said. And I have a dtr in need right now.

[REP]

211. No mention of therapy

Court-ordered or otherwise; just an implied threat that the risk of reoffending was lessened with the receipt of funds - and the same use of helpless animals to appeal for money.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

241. It is mentioned here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027011754#post31

Just pointing it out. I'm wary that one can be rehabilitated on a sexual inclination.

[REP]

244. Since the word "therapy" wasn't used, didn't want to assume

"Treatment" and "therapy" can mean different things - voluntary Depo-Provera injections vs psychological intervention - so I didn't want to make an assumption based on the words used.

That is the post where it is implied that better behavior might come with more money, as noted farther down the thread.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

246. Yeah, I knew there was also a post saying that remaining in a house would prevent relapse. n/m

[mentalsolstice]

119. About Yoshi

"I do think it's unfair to underestimate TTW's feelings about Yoshi in this picture." I wonder how TTW will feel if and when Yoshi succumbs to a severe case of kennel cough. By her own words he has green goo coming out of his nose, which suggests he needs immediate treatment by a veterinarian. So you can you can talk until you're blue in the face about social welfare and its cracks, which I agree with you BTW, however, you have no personal knowledge about this specific case, as at least two other Duers do. TTW obvviously has some serious problems. OTOH, Yoshi is likely in critical need of immediate intervention. It probably would have been best if he had been turned over to the rescue, at least he would have had a chance to thrive. If you have ever had a truly beloved pet, you would know what it's like to want the best for them, no matter how heart-wrenching the choices are.

[daredtowork]

120. You don't know how TTW will pursue that

Right now she is trying to crowd-fund a vet. She may try other things. She clearly loves Yoshi. In the end we don't know what she will do.

People were prognosticating she would take to the street, Yoshi would attack a policeman, and that would be the end of Yoshi. Instead, TTW managed to stay housed, put Yoshi back into a "Doggie Daycare" even though she was running up debt, and proceeded to do the best she could do. She is clearly looking for ways to adjust. There's no point in trying to second-guess her from here.

[beaglelover]

122. what happened to the $1000 she raised in the last week or so? why does she STILL need money for a

vet??? she's a scam artist pure and simple. people who still give to her are fools.

[daredtowork]

128. She probably used it for doggie daycare

and her own living expenses. I'm unclear on whether Msanthrope's ex was reimbursed anything or it cost anything to reclaim the dog from the shelter.

If you were in her situation, I doubt you would think of her need for money as a "scam". However, she does have a constant need for money because she no longer has a regular place to live, no longer has regular employment, and is trying to hold onto her dog. Where else do you suggest she turn *other* than DU?

There's the rub.

[REP]

133. She does have a place to live, and has not paid her dog daycare bill

No, she has not reimbursed those who have tried to help her, but she has tried to press criminal charges against them and has made foul, horrible smears against them. I suspect that will be the only thanks they get.

Perhaps you should read what she posts a bit more closely before making so many assumptions yourself. Many of us have been in her position - or far worse - and managed with considerably less help.

[daredtowork]

141. Yes

People have received far less help. I've never advocated what should be done for TTW - only tried to stop people from dis-advocating, re: "scammer".

Regarding Msanthrope - I was asking because there have been many posts and threads. I've lost track. I'll take your word they didn't get any money for food, etc. I remember someone asking for an account DU would control: that's why I asked.

The place she has to live amounts to "couch surfing": she is not paying rent. Things may change if she needs to take Yoshi. I'm confused by what she means when she says Yoshi stays with her during the day. I noted she said she didn't pay the Doggie Daycare bill. Perhaps she is trying to save the money to get into an apartment with Yoshi? Did she withdraw the money already?

People have managed on less: I suppose you could say that TTW is trying to "get away with something" by trying to get back into a regular living situation with Yoshi, and trying to do it on her terms. That's just what she's doing. As I mentioned in another post, when you're outraged by that, it seems like the best thing to do is back away. But it doesn't seem right to proceed to try to undermine TTW by making extra claims about her (re: "drug user&quot with the intent of preventing other people from helping her. Those are also "foul, horrible smears" aimed at someone who is scraping the bottom right now.

[REP]

144. Res ipsa loquitur

And as for where she's living, it's not "couch surfing" per her:

For the past several weeks I've been renting a little room in a really nice house a few miles up the road from where I was living before though I'm in a different township now. The home owner is a really great guy and let me live here for two weeks until I got my first paycheck without paying him anything, and he fixed up and cleaned the room for me so it was all ready when I got off of work that night. It's small, but it's the only room in the house that has it's own private "bathroom" which is about the size of the one in my parents' old motorhome, and the sink doesn't work, but that's fine by me since I really like having the private toilet. He has to rent a couple of rooms every single week to someone or he can't make his mortgage payments on his own and is already dangerously close to losing his nice house.

As for the speculation as to her behavior? The thing speaks for itself.

[daredtowork]

148. Ooh that's where the $1000 went

I thought I read she was staying there for free, but she states she is renting the room.

But if she is unemployed currently...? Well, I'm trying not to speculate.

[SMC22307]

186. Read it again.

For the past several weeks I've been renting a little room in a really nice house a few miles up the road from where I was living before though I'm in a different township now. The home owner is a really great guy and let me live here for two weeks until I got my first paycheck without paying him anything,

The poor ol' guy let her live there at no charge for two weeks before she got her first paycheck. What did the $1,000 go toward? One would think it would have gone toward a security deposit and/or rent. Or Yoshi vet care, but that seems *not* to be the case.

[bettyellen]

135. It's not unclear- the dog boarders did not get paid. Both Mis and TTW said so.

I would suggest she get to a doctor and see what they can do for her. And plan for someone to care for Yoshi- reach out directly to a rescue groups to see if they have anyone willing to agree to give Yoshi back in six months or when she is stabilized.
She is not able to hold a job in her current state, and planning on her current landlord to be Yoshi's daycare is a shitty thing to do to an old man. She cannot dump Yoshi on strangers again. Especially when she does not have the rent that is due him later this week.
There is emergency housing she could have signed up for months ago, but she cannot bring Yoshi. But she cannot handle a job plus Yoshi in her current state, the numbers will never add up.

[daredtowork]

149. The money is going toward rent

I thought I read that TTW was staying for free at some place, but she actually stated she is renting. That's where the money has gone.

Yes, it does seem likely she will lose this housing with no rent and trying to spring Yoshi on the owner.

Again, I think it's up to TTW to see this strategy is not working and that she must seriously seek out local resources. A lot of people do become homeless rather than giving up their dogs, though, and I hope people on DU can accept that might happen.

[bettyellen]

158. both- she couch surfed for weeks, and now just started paying rent 2-3 weeks ago...

and said that payment was from a paycheck she had just received.
None of it makes sense. I hope she has signed up for some assistance and can make it work, but it seems like it is already falling apart even with the extra grand this month and work.

[daredtowork]

164. Yep. I'm just trying not to dwell on it. :-/ nt

[DawgHouse]

172. And now she can't work until Yoshi is well because

he can't go to doggie day care while he is sick. So this nice man she's paid rent to "through the 20th", has a tenant who can't work because she can't leave Yoshi alone and she has a broken nose and her hip is screwed up due to the actions of one of his other tenants. This guy's problems are just beginning.

MOO.

[bettyellen]

173. Yeah, that nice man has no idea what is in store for him. I have no idea if Yoshi will survive this

but that poor man, he needs that money or will lose the house.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

178. She knows he needs the rent money from her

Last edited Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:57 PM - Edit history (1)

or he will lose the house. She doesn't care. She doesn't give a shit about other people and the damage she is doing.

[bettyellen]

180. I think that is why so many imagine it is a substance abuse issue, the total lack of empathy,

the ever crazier stories, and the need for a constant stream of cash. It can steal your soul.

[daredtowork]

231. Well it's doubtful she could hold down a job in the first place

But while begging for money people are asking her why she isn't looking for work, so she has to put in a try. There is tremendous cultural pressure to keep hurling people at "get a job" whether they can psychologically cope or not. Each time they get canned just makes the traumatic cycle worse.

Arg, now I'm speculating. I don't want to judge TTW's case. Just putting it out there that we shouldn't make a negative assessment, and we should look at the kinds of pressures we add. How many people here say, "Why aren't you looking for a job? Why don't you have a job yet? You could have had a job within this time. You look capable of doing this." We prefer TTW work instead of donating to her (or apparently letting other people donate to her). It seems better if there was someone on the spot who could assess TTW's ability to hold down a job.

By the way, isn't TTW around 50? Her age, and the negative feedback that comes with that, may be playing a role as well.

[DawgHouse]

234. She had said before that her previous field was bartending

and that none of the bars near her would hire a 50+ old woman to tend bar. That is how she ended up going to temp agencies.

But my post wasn't a negative assessment about her job search. It was about the temp job she said she thought might start in about a week. If Yoshi has bordatella, she won't be able to take him to the doggie day care so she'll have to stay home with him instead of working the temp assignment. If she doesn't work that temp assignment, she won't have the money to pay the rent that is due after the 20th.

[daredtowork]

257. Yep she won't have the money on the 20th

Hence the suspicion that TTW will ask DU for money again after having burned a lot of good will here regarding Msanthrope attempting to help with Yoshi.

The description of the last temp job with the uniform where she supposedly caught fire makes me wonder why a 50 year old woman is being directed toward exacting manual labor jobs. She does have a paralegal background in the distant past.

Msanthrope said something about setting financial goals. TTW does strike me as impulsive. She bought an over-priced computer mouse when she had some issue with her computer - at a time when she had to worry about being evicted. That was not a financial priority, and I PMed her to let her know at the very least she shouldn't be mentioning such spurious purposes (on DU crowd-sourced funds) here.

I've mentioned TTW needing a general case manager in other threads. One things the case manager could help with is getting TTW some sort of financial coach and helping her with identifying financial goals, various savings plans, special programs she may be eligible for, etc.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

266. A woman is not 'old' at 50.

Not at all. Many of us here are in our 60's and 70's and we are not passed it.

[daredtowork]

271. Yes, but the job market is more difficult at that point. nt

[cwydro]

275. I am older than 50. I quit a soul killing job

a year ago.

I've had several job offers since, and I'm working now. It's an important job qualification to be able to get along with others. It seems that TTW has some difficulties there. It's not age.

She posted that she had credentials as a paralegal. Tons of jobs open for that, and age is not important.

She was a stripper at one time according to her own posts, so OK, maybe she aged out of that.

But she claims to be a bartender as well...those jobs are not hard to get.

[daredtowork]

276. They might be hard to get if you can't "get along with others"

Look at your own post - you stated it's TTW's fault she can't get a job and then stated such jobs are easy to get. So you are essentially stating that TTW should be "easier to get along with". The problem is you (and I) don't know if there is a root cause behind why she's difficult to get along with or able to meet job requirements at this time.

However, the constant pressure to get a job may be driving her to take jobs she can't hold on to - which creates a track record of constantly getting fired: not conducive to getting more jobs. If she needed underlying medical or mental health care, it would have been better to get that first.

[cwydro]

278. Oh good lord.

[Demit]

279. You seem stressed! If there's one thing that I've picked up in these threads,

it's that if you had wrap around services it would make it all better.

[REP]

280. I'm sure you know what "projection" is

I catch myself doing it on certain topics - like intractable pain control (no, we're not all junkies!) - and it might be going on with this topic, too. I think almost everyone does understand that most people who fall upon hard times do do everything they can to get back out, and that it's not easy ... and that there are individuals who are exceptions.

[REP]

238. Nowhere has she claimed any disability, physical or psychological

Nowhere has she claimed to be filing for Social Security Disability based on any physical or psychological disability. You are the only person to suggest that she cannot "psychologically cope" with working - not even she has suggested that.

She says she was working and has claimed various reasons for not looking for work - none of them because she is unfit to work. She is capable of supporting herself. She has been asking others to do so for six months now, and threatening some who have helped her.

[daredtowork]

256. She may not have the path to SSI

You can't apply for SSI on the basis of a personality disorder - you would need a clinical diagnosis of mental illness. The first step to even finding out her status about that would be to establish a relationship with a medical clinic.

This has nothing to do with TTW's psychological ability to hold down work, which could be disrupted just from extreme stress. Here is what I recall TTW mentioning in the past: a therapist, medication, not getting sleep, and her relatives directing her toward mental health services that were heavier than she was prepared to engage with. Also the way she wrote about her problems suggested a particular form of stress and inability to cope to me. However, that could be faked, so I'm taking the same position on that I always do: I don't know if this is true, but I don't think people should dismiss it either.

TTW has repeatedly lost temp jobs with excuses. Some people read that as "getting out of work". It could also mean she was pressured into doing something she shouldn't have been trying to do in the first place. Again, I'm taking a devil's advocate position here - I don't know: but I'm an advocate for welfare issues, and I want people on DU to see all possible sides of this story.

Regarding TTW asking others to support her: the larger question is - where else can she go?

Regarding TTW's threats - while MsAnthrope went out of her way to help TTW, is it fair to condemn TTW when the dog was taken to shelter/rescue against TTW's wishes? This was what TTW had been trying to avoid. The real moral issue for many on DU is whether its fair to the dog that TTW try so hard to keep him.

[Demit]

261. Regarding her threats: she now has the dog back, so everything is status quo ante.

The fact that she is pursuing legal action anyway indicates that she wants to punish others for what happened and to extract money from them at the same time. It is very fair to criticize that.

Her losses at this point, if she is to be believed, amounts to--a leash. If this even got in front of a small claims court judge--who reeeally hate having their time wasted, so people are encouraged to settle with one another before they are called--Msanthrope would counter with her out-of-pocket costs to the dog walker and, at worst, the judge would call it a wash.

[daredtowork]

273. I doubt that's going to happen

TTW is still embroiled in the legal tangle over her "slum lord".

Besides, the guy who took Yoshi is a lawyer. I doubt he's worried.

[REP]

265. She is a legally competent adult

And she will continue to make her own decisions, including to not work with her social worker, visit the food bank close to her, or take advantage of the other social services with which she has engaged and expressed her disgust with. Short of the state taking guardianship of her, she will be free to continue to make her own decisions, good or bad, and no amount of providing her with resources will change that.

[daredtowork]

272. All true

I'm not arguing with you at all about what TTW may choose to do for herself.

When I make an argument "for" TTW, it's merely to counter negative spin - to provide the alternative possibility. And that's really on behalf of any poor, struggling person, so they won't get stuck with similar stereotypes.

Regarding the resources, my "agenda" is mainly to make people aware what is and is not available to TTW. The "system" is opaque to people who haven't been in that kind of crisis before, and people often make assumptions about a safety net. They assume if they run out of money, they will just "go on welfare". If they can't pay their rent or mortgage, some charity organization will come through for them to keep them in their homes. They assume if they become disabled, someone will come aid them on a temporary basis. They assume that there is one place to go for "help" and not a circus of Federal, State, County, and Local resources that are difficult to find - with poverty "helpers" actively hoarding limited resources for their clients.

Trying to help TTW allows people to break through those assumptions. It's a conceptual breakthrough about people in crisis situations. I think it's important for progressives to understand.

I wish the best for TTW, but I have no illusions about the outcome of her situation if she doesn't walk in the doors that she needs to walk into for herself. For what few doors exist.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

242. She sure has enough time to sue people, though n/m

[herding cats]

168. She never said any of the $1000 went to rent.

I just read the previous OP. It was never mentioned in it. From what I've read the most she paid to the kennel was around $100. We have no idea where the money went, which is fine since it was given with kind hearts and good intentions.

I'm not giving her anymore though. The matter with msanthrope reflects very poorly on her, and the way she accused msanthrope of intending to use Yoshi to fundraise on DU to the police set off alarm bells for me.

Yes, even I can eventually see the light. I wish them well, but I do not think there's anything we, meaning DUers, can do to effect any sort of real change for TTW. Which makes me sad. I'm the worst kind of tender-heart, and I admit I was and am worried about their end results.

[7wo7rees]

174. Agreed 1000%! And with many others in this"16th" thread.

Many here are being attacked, on both sides.

Many of those accused of being against TTW are IMHO only trying to warn other DU'ers of what seem to be many issues and discrepancies in the entire narrative going back to the beginning, February 2015.

I stand by everything I have posted in all prior threads. This has been heartbreaking to watch unfold, many have been hurt and still are. There were at 1 time rules for asking for help from the DU community.

Maybe it is time for some reflection and possibly institution of some new rules.

Peace to all.

[herding cats]

182. I really do wish them the best.

Last edited Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:12 PM - Edit history (1)

I am somewhat of an easy mark, it's true. That doesn't make me stupid or unteachable though. I can't reconcile TTW's actions in regards to msanthrope with someone who is reachable at the moment. She had time to reflect and she came here and doubled down in her locked thread. I'm assuming she's still pursuing legal action against msanthrope and her ex as well. Be it for dog-napping or attempted fraud, or whatever she decided on. It's foolish and should never have been something she chose to waste her time and resources on. It won't go far, but it will cost people time and money they don't have to spare to deal with the the process. Foolish and futile though it may be. Not to mention TTW will more than likely spend more time, and more money she doesn't have to spare once again fighting a legal battle which has no merit and she's destined to lose. It brings to mind that famous Einstein quote, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

I actually wish her last thread hadn't been locked by the forum managers. It would have been better for all of us if it would have been left open for everyone to view until it finally died the proper death.

As to people being able to post fundraisers here, I'm still fine with it. We're adults and as such are capable of making our own decisions. I'm just less likely to judge if people are picking the thread apart. Sometimes people deserve to be questioned about their situation more closely than others. I see that now.

[LisaL]

199. If the dog isn't cat friendly, someone who has cats should have never attempted to take the dog in

to begin with. I understand that there was a desire to help, but it doesn't sound like the helper thought it through.

[bettyellen]

206. The helper was reassured Yoshi was okay with cats- and children.....

And then TTW admitted he had never been around cats or children.
TTW is gambling with others people's lives at this point, and doesn't seem to grasp how fucked up this is.

[justamama83]

208. You might want to go back and check post #67

Here is part of what is posted by "the helper"- Seems TTW first told them the dog would be ok with cats but then.......

"Once Yoshi was actually around the cats, TTW revealed that she did not actually know how Yoshi was with cats because Yoshi had never been allowed around a cat. Any cats Yoshi had seen on walks were dealt with by TTW restraining him. One reason TTW doesn't like my dogwalker is because she called out TTW about the cat issue on the first night"

Seems there was deception on the part of TTW on how socialized the dog actually was.

[REP]

126. He is not in daycare; he has a highly contagious disease and cannot be boarded

If you read her post, even she admits that he cannot be boarded/be put in daycare until his kennel cough (and likely now, pneumonia) is cleared. Kennel cough is air and saliva borne and is highly contagious; no reputable kennel will take a dog with an active infection.

ETA I believe the dog is sick but don't believe it is a good idea for more money to be sent her, as she admits she did not use the last donated money for its intended purpose (she has not paid her bill at the dog daycare of at least $150.00 - more than enough for a vet visit).

[Sunlei]

191. just like most people get over a bad cold without a Doctor, most dogs will recover from kennel cough

without needing a Vet. She could use a crate in her bedroom for the dog to be secure while she's at work.

She could also 'work' early am an hour cleaning at many dog care places to pay for a day of dog care.

[LisaL]

202. Dog has green nasal discharge, which could indicate a serious problem.

[Sunlei]

203. yes, it could have distemper if the owner never vaccinated. Dogs been exposed. Owner could

go to the nearest Vet clinic and offer to scrub their floors to pay for an exam.

[LisaL]

204. Sounds like she got money in the go fund me account to at least take a dog for a check up.

[Sunlei]

205. yes, she could if she wanted to use the cash for a dog exam. On top of that shes the one

who reported the 'green discharge'. who knows if that's the truth or not.

She could post the name of her dogs Vet and ask people to pay the vet directly for an 'exam' if she really is concerned about the dogs health.

[PearliePoo2]

210. I think this is a good idea.

I would send a little money to the vet today.

[REP]

209. The dog is said to have green discharge from the nostrils, which if true

indicates a more serious condition that requires veterinary intervention.

The dog in question is an Akita who has not responded well to being crated in the past, and is aggressive.

[Sunlei]

212. sure. I rescued a 'last day' very sick, dog pound dog, from Macon, Ga & it took a month at

a vet clinic in Ga to get him well enough to health cert. for flight to Texas.

Still my Texas Vet had to treat him a couple more weeks before his lungs cleared.

But the Akita is a younger dog, relatively healthy and hopefully has had his regular vaccinations. Most get better on their own, just like people.

[REP]

213. You and I would take the dog to the vet and spend the money.

There seems to be a question of willingness to do that here. She has received over $1K of donations that hasn't gone to pay the dog day care or pay her rooming house rent. Does she still have it and will she spent it on vet care? I very much doubt she will get even more donations after her latest actions.

[Sunlei]

214. perhaps she will post her Vets name so people can pay the Vet directly.

1k is not much money when one is 'homeless' or even living in their car.

[REP]

216. Apparently all that money went to her former landlord

From reading this thread, it seems she is still tilting at that windmill. If only she put that focus into finding steady employment and caring for her dog.

[Sunlei]

218. So? once cash is given, it's their money to spend as they wish.

In pictures the dog looked reasonably healthy and fed and certainly is a wanted pet. He's a beautiful Akita.

She's not like a hoarder with to many animals. IMO, people shouldn't have to throw away their pet when times get 'hard'. Those are the times we need a good dog!

[REP]

219. Pardon? Did I say anything about abandoning the dog? No.

I believe you have confused me for someone else. I merely expressed a desire for her to put her energies into securing steady employment and caring for her dog, who is in need of attention from a vet.

[Demit]

222. No one disagrees with that sentiment, that it would be nice to keep your dog when times get hard.

The question at hand is, who pays for it?

TTW seems to think her life should be subsidized.

She stiffed her former landlord, she stiffed the doggie daycare. She's about to stiff her current landlord. On top of that, incredibly, she's hoping he'll look after her dog too.

Just how much do people's lives (and livelihoods!) have to be altered so that hers doesn't have to?

[cwydro]

262. Well put.

Thank you.

One thing the TTW saga has taught me is that P.T. Barnum was right.

Sad, but true.

[mentalsolstice]

131. I sincerely hope you're right.

I hope in the near future we will hear from TTW or others who are personally involved IRL (which you are not, your posts simply surmise as most of the others here), that Yoshi has received appropriate treatment, is in safe environs, and donations to make this happen are greatly appeciated.

However, per TTW's own words, Yoshi has a green discharge coming from his nose which suggests an acute health problem and is in need of immediate treatment.

[daredtowork]

134. My surmise is only to balance the negative version

My position is actually "we can't know", and we should be encouraging TTW to get local help at all times.

But we should also acknowledge that this local help may not exist - and that signals a political problem that we should explore.

[snooper2]

201. S2 E3

[daredtowork]

227. If it were picked up by the Lifetime channel that would take care of all her worries

I hate the fact that sounds flip when that could actually be serious in today's culture.

[Syzygy321]

248. I like your integrity through this; always have;

but I think that what is being demonstrated to us Democrats is not "gaps in the system" but the fact that some people put themselves in a place where no system can save them.

TTW has gotten handouts, concern, and the kindness of strangers. She has gotten a social worker who did her best. She has gotten legal advice. She has had library services. She has gotten help from an animal shelter and a breed rescue place and a doggie daycare that reportedly has been boarding her pet without pay. She has gotten jobs. She has gotten a new home, and offers of other homes. She has had cops listen patiently to her tale of msanthrope's "conspiracy". She has gotten oodles upon oodles of sympathy.

And the end result of all these people bending over backward is, what exactly?

And if a kinder gentler more liberal America bends farther over backward, what will the results be?

Listen: Today I met a nice young addict. He has gotten free psychiatric care. He has been given treatment after treatment. Most recently he went through a suboxone clinic. It didn't thrill him so he left it. He gave himself a life-threatening spine infection with a needle. He went to a hospital. He got 3 weeks of free inpatient medical care. Then a random pee test showed he was using illicit drugs in the hospital. When confronted with the evidence, he left AMA. The next day, he showed up at my hospital with his tale of woe and his desperate desire for IV narcotics. From me he will get another 3 weeks or more of free inpatient medical care; the exact same care a rich person would get.

Here is what he told the hospital social worker today: "No, I don't need any help. I don't have a drug problem anymore. I'm over it. I swear. I just want to get better and get home to see my little girl."

It's bullshit. He kinda means it, but it's still bullshit.

He's a nice decent guy who, ten to one, is never going to get well. He wants to, but he doesn't want to. ALong the way he is going to rob his parents, beat his girlfriend, and screw over his kid. He'll feel kinda bad about it all, but he'll tell himself it's not exactly his fault, and that will free him up to keep doing it.

And nothing I or the social worker or anyone can do, will change that.

(Oh, and did I mention his hep C? Sigh. How many people will be infect before he's done?.)

And this guy: he's not crazy or bad. He's just a young man with an addiction. I like him. I wish I could fix him. I've seen a thousand guys like him. It's alcohol or opiates or chronic debilitating psychiatric problems. People like him have the best of intentions and, generally, the worst of outcomes. They blunder along hurting themselves and everyone else. You can call them victims - especially if you stand on a soapbox far away and ignore the truly innocent people they drag down with them.

Their problem, like TTW, isn't some "gap in the system" that the right liberal policy could fix. Their problem is, quite simply, themselves.

You worry about innocent Yoshi. I worry about this guy's toddler daughter. I wonder if the girl's mom is also using; if she will be dead of hep C complications before the child turns 15.

(Or is the mom an innocent victim who had a baby with the wrong guy, and will spend the rest of her life in hell because of it?)

There is no magic system that fixes broken people who don't especially want to be fixed.

To me, that is the moral of this unending fable.

[daredtowork]

255. I don't know if TTW can be fixed or not

But I'd like people to be aware that the right kind of help isn't there.

Raising money on DU is not the right kind of help.

Random acts of charity from strangers on a forum is not the right kind of help.

TTW having to research resources, hang out on phone trees, and deal with all sorts of scattershot responses while she's undergoing the stress of imminent rejection is not the right kind of help.

A social worker evidently came out to visit TTW, but that didn't result in TTW stabilizing her housing or financial situation (I'm not going to say "working situation", because it's not clear to me that TTW can hold down a job and should be pushed toward that). So this does not seem to be working either.

I don't think this boils down to "some people can't be helped". That gets all of society off the hook way too easy. If we posit that TTW is making irrational decisions at this point, then the corollary is that she would benefit from help. The legal stickler is she has the option to turn that help down. That doesn't mean she "can't be helped" - that means she has to choose when she's ready to be helped.

If we leave it as "some people can't be helped", we're stuck with the homeless problem - the people we've discarded to fall through the cracks, to suffer from ill health, exposure to the elements, and malnutrition until they die. How is that different from torture by omission to help?

Regarding TTW's situation, or more indirectly, the Philadelphia situation -I stand by what I've been saying about this situation. TTW would benefit from wrap around services. I learned today that Obama cut the Community Block Grants that funded local services in half in 2011 because he felt they weren't "measurable" and he wanted to replace them with something "competitive". I wonder what he replaced them with? Since Social Services doesn't really do the "wrap around" part, it's those community agencies that had the flexibility to look into particular cases and to try to customize solutions.

Now there are fewer places to turn. But if there is a place for TTW to turn, I encourage people to list it here and raise all of our awarenesses of the options available.

[Syzygy321]

260. OK. But I say that in a free society, we can't force people

to fit into our idea of "normal" or "proper.".

Free people make choices. Some make the choice to be hermits in caves, or grifters or professional beggars or con artists, or addicts who don't want to quit using, or eccentric nomads who prefer homelessness to "fitting in", or antisocial-personality people who enjoy exploiting others for cash-sex-housing, or proud free spirits who won't take any hand that's offered them.

People make all kinds of choices that range from stupid to self-destructive to abusive of others. And unless you want an authoritarian society where social workers are allowed to drag people around by the hair "for their own good." , it is always gonna be that way.

Assistance should be available. But not everyone wants to live the way the mainstream thinks they should.

[daredtowork]

268. I agree with that

TTW may not make use of assistance if it's available.

But we shouldn't pretend that assistance is available if it's not. That's why I support keeping these threads alive: so people will be free to recommend resources. That highlights whether such resources are available or not.

[7wo7rees]

263. How many more times should everyone get together and

find resources to list here that might help TTW. There have been numerous threads with an amazing amount of information, resources and offers already.

Why do you keep repeating the request to furnish info that has been repeatedly offered up already over the course of the last 6 months?

Very confused.

[Syzygy321]

267. *grin* There is that.

Some people enjoy being at the center of a fiery neverending melodrama.

Others stand safely back and watch with eyebrows raised, enjoying (or mocking) the spectacle. Then there are some who want to help. Then there are those who aren't interested. And others who derive various flavors of satisfaction from inserting themselves into the excitement and keeping the flames going.

All kinds are on display.

[daredtowork]

269. Gosh I hope you don't think any of those are my motive

I'm about what I keep saying I'm about: when people recommend resources to TTW, it exposes what's really available and what isn't available.

I hope TTW takes advantage of what's available to her, but I know we can't do anything about that. I also know we can't evaluate her story from here - I just try to avoid jumping to the negative spin. Replying to those posts does "perpetuate the drama", I suppose.

But my main purpose here is to highlight what steps people can take when they hit bottom like TTW - and especially to highlight what ISN'T there.

I'd like to see our Primary Candidates role that into their platforms, restore funding to community services block grants, and repair "welfare reform". While everyone claims the War on Poverty failed, most of the *successful* programs that were initiated by the War on Poverty were simply smuggled into other government departments - sort of like another person getting credit for your homework. The "War on Poverty" needs to get credit for Head Start, College Work-Study, and earlier versions of Americorps. Then it would be good to reboot it to coordinate those community services block grant programs to specifically provide "case workers" again - who can bundle Federal, State, County, and Local services and tailor them to particular people who are shell-shocked by crisis which *may* be the case with TTW.

I want people to see the necessity of that, and they can when they fail to find adequate resources for TTW. That is why I participate in these threads.

[Syzygy321]

274. If any of those describe you, I don't think any less of you.

People want to feel good about themselves. I know I do. Cheering a cause, rescuing a kitten up a tree, claiming that the Other Political Party (or religion, race, ethnicity, etc) is morally deficient, volunteering, bragging about volunteering, praying ostentiously for Calcutta's destitute, fighting abortion, fighting pro-lifers, giving money to an Internet friend who has fallen on hard times, taking up her cause, taking it up steadfastly while others fall away, persistently defending the underdog with a resolve that is strengthened by others' scorn, etc,

All understandable stuff. Human natiure. Yours and mine. And fun to watch.

[daredtowork]

277. LOL, and cheers. *toasts you* nt

[daredtowork]

270. That's a misunderstanding and I'm sorry you feel I'm repeating that request

If people feel moved to provide resources for TTW, they should only feel the need to do that once - or as many times as they personally feel like it. Not because I'm requesting it.

My replies in that regard were meant as an explanation of why I participate in the thread and why I don't feel TTW threads should be banned.

The US has cut a great deal from social services in recent years. Most people are not aware of how the affects people in crisis. The act of looking for resources brings the lack to their attention. I hope this remains on their minds when they vote for their political representatives or even as they participate in their local governments. People should be aware of what's REALLY available before they make snap judgments about what the poor can do for themselves.

You have mentioned how you have personally done a lot to try to help TTW. I commend you for that, and I'm sorry if my attempts to raise political awareness of the paucity of resources for people in crisis have caused you any stress.

[7wo7rees]

258. In my very humble opinion I believe you may have just put

much in a nutshell. Makes a lot of sense. Down thread you will see OmahaSteve has said no more. When you lose his support, game over.

No clue whatsoever as to what "daredtowork" position is in this whole sad affair, but relentless......comes to mind. For whatever reasons.

Once again, peace to all involved.

Worried sick for the poor dog, would be nice to know he is getting treatment. Please don't judge that as harsh, worried for TTW as well. She seems to have an ability to land on her feet while torching bridges.

And again, thanks for your insight and thoughtfulness.

[magical thyme]

108. very well said. thank you.

with this post, I'm leaving this thread. It expresses what I'm feeling better than I'm able to.

[Facility Inspector]

109. hustlers hustle

and you can't hustle a hustler.

two truisms as old as "The Game."

[daredtowork]

112. And sockpuppets sockpuppet. nt

[Facility Inspector]

114. what,

just because I disagree with you?

[Tipperary]

117. I do find it interesting that this poster made that allegation against you. I read through previous

threads and that same poster called other posters "trolls" when they disagreed with him. I find that amusing, though a bit sad.

[hunter]

136. I imagine I understand this situation because it reminds me so much of my grandma...

... the difference being that my grandma got a job as a shipyard welder during World War II and made a career of it, retiring with a home she fully owned, a pension, and Social Security. She was never a nice person. But certain sorts of welding jobs in the very masculine ship building industry of her time, jobs that were said to require a "womans touch," were the reason they kept her on after the war. She knew hot metal. Her personal relationships were always a firestorm, the worst with my grandpa, 'til death do us part, and it did. I don't think my grandma was ever a fully functional human being in this society outside her work. Neither am I sometimes.

When she retired my grandma had nothing but her house, her pension, her whiskey, and her horrible cat all fangs and claws which mostly seemed to tolerate her, but hated everyone else. I have scars from that cat. My grandma would say the meanest things to everyone, and she always ended up hating anyone whoever tried to help her. She could also be as violent as her cat. I have scars from my grandma too.

Eventually my grandma had to be removed from her home as a danger to herself and others. Honestly, retirement is what killed her. In prehistoric times she would have died working flint tools or losing an argument with a grizzly bear over dinner. It took the police and paramedics several hours to drag grandma out of her house. She was throwing things, hitting, clawing, kicking, biting and yelling very foul things the entire time.

My grandma would move between "extended care" facilities and the master bedroom of my mom and dad's house. The cat lived under the bed in the master bedroom full time and would attack anyone who entered. So would my grandma. Feeding the cat or feeding grandma was always an adventure. Changing the cat's litter box or asking grandma to bathe was a more dangerous adventure.

My grandma couldn't live at home permanently, she was impossible to live with after a few months, always analyzing the weakest links, finding the most hurtful words or actions. Extended care places, even places that claimed some expertise with mean old crazy people, they couldn't handle her more than a few months either. So she'd moved back and forth. My grandma's own mom was a similar sort, but she lived by herself in a very rural place into her nineties, and everyone for miles around, county sheriff and family included, knew always to approach her with extreme caution.

Of course my mom is terrified of her family history and used to make us promise we'd leave her on an uninhabited island somewhere, or even throw her into a volcano, if she ever became that kind of burden on us. But she's older than my grandma now, retired, and is still a nice person most of the time, although she lives with my dad in a rain forest thousands of miles away, they drink and bathe in water that falls on their roof, buy food in the local farmers market, and I've never visited the place. But my siblings who've been there say it's very nice.

Anyways, I believe as human beings we are obligated to take care of one another. Our modern U.S.A. society lacks the social safety nets required to take care of everyone. There are huge gaps. The gap between those who are thankful for charity and welfare (their gratitude feigned or not) and those who need to be locked away in some kind of prison, this gap is a deeply disturbing one to me.

I know myself, that off my meds and alienated from family, my natural state is feral human. At my worst I've lived in my broken car in a church parking lot, not telling my family I was without housing and "asked" to take time off from university for fighting with a teaching assistant and other odd behavior.

My college house mates would tell anyone I was a strange person with weird eating habits who could appear and disappear at any time without rhyme or reason. Heck, my parents would probably say the same of me, starting in middle school. Two of my siblings left home at sixteen, not because home was bad, but because they had things to do, places to go. Me and a sibling quit high school. Oddly, the two of us who quit high school are the ones with the university degrees.

It's this gap in the social safety net I can see myself falling into, and the hell of it is, I won't recognize it when I'm there. I'll be one of those neat, quiet, homeless guys in the library reading the science journals, scribbling in my notebooks.

[daredtowork]

150. Beautifully stated. nt

[mentalsolstice]

165. I found this site to help homeless folk and their pets

I used to work for a organization that dealt with domestic violence and also provided shelter for abused women and their children. The matter of pets often came up, as there are few resources to help with pet care in such situations. We often scrambled to try and find a solution. Thinking about TTW's circumstances and Yoshi's well-being, I came upon this site, http://www.petsofthehomeless.org/resources.html . I haven't looked at it in detail, however, it may provide some advice for TTW and others who find themselves between a rock and a hard place.

[madamvlb]

167. I contributed the first go round....

I think enough is enough. This women needs help, period. We have offered advice and money, to no avail. I truly feel bad for Yoshi as I do for many other animals that are in need, but at this point I think Yoshi needs to go back to the breeder ( if that is an option) or maybe to a rescue group? I just am done donating to TTW. I truly wish her the best and hope everything turns ok swell.

[betsuni]

188. From Anais Nin's "A Spy in the House of Love":

"She was talking about a party at which indistinct incidents had taken place, hazy scenes from which the lie detector could not distinguish the heroine or the victim; talking a broken dream, with spaces, reversals, retractions, and galloping fantasies ... and now it was if all she had said had been written on a huge blackboard, and she took a sponge and effaced it all by a phrase ... and, as soon as it was erased in the mind of the listeners, she began another ... .

"He could not retain a sequence of the people she had loved, hated, escaped from, any more than he cold keep track of the changes in her appearance by phrases such as 'but that time my hair was blond,' or 'that time I was married,' and who it was that had been forgotten or betrayed; and when in desperation he clung to the recurrences of certain words, they formed no design by their repetition, but rather an absolute contradiction.

"She was compelled by a confessional fever which forced her into lifting a corner of the veil, and then, frightened when anyone listened attentively. She repeatedly took a giant sponge and erased all she had said by absolute denial, as if this confession were in itself a mantle of protection. At first she beckoned and lured one into her world; then she blurred the passageways, confused all the images, as if to elude detection."

[Demit]

192. "One thing she didn't blur, however, was the link to her gofundme page."

--updated Anais Nin.

[betsuni]

196. Heh.

[closeupready]

230. Love her short stories. The naughty ones, lol, of course.

Even though she was definitely writing for sexually libertine women of her time, the sensuality of the stories speaks to everyone who has had kinky fantasies at some point or other.

[betsuni]

240. I like the diaries best.

She was a living example of the kreplach joke, though, and it gets irritating after a few decades. How anyone can be in therapy most of their life and not fix any of their neurotic behaviors ... I don't know, seems like a waste of time, and the poor psychiatrist. I think habitual liars should take a tip from Anais and keep their lies neatly filed on index cards. Then when they mention a fall that "broke" their nose they can look it up and see that they said they'd slipped on water in the kitchen and not make up a new story a couple months later of having low blood pressure and fainting. Consistency is very important when lying and Anais was an expert.

[LisaL]

200. Sounds like the dog needs to go to the vet ASAP.

[ladyVet]

229. I truly hope things continue to go well with them both.

It seems she has been able to take control of her life and living arrangements, and also gotten Yoshi into the sort of place we all wanted him to be in (since he couldn't be with her at the time).

Good news all around. Tell TTW I'm wishing her the best, and sending "good vibes", since I'm not a prayer.

[seveneyes]

247. Everything sounds just fucking peachy

How else could a street life in Philly go without a legacy job, a home, safe quarter and an unpredictable protective large dog go? It's gotta be Golden and Green ...

[Omaha Steve]

249. Marta and I have helped TTW in the past

I doubt we will again after her post that got locked.

[Codeine]

250. And yet. nt

[7wo7rees]

259. When the two of you say something like "cut bait" it might

be time for the rest of all of us to pay attention.

Thanks for all the good the two of you do everyday!!

[dilby]

252. So does she need more money?

Seems like it's turning into perpetual fundraising for ttw on DU similar to Alan Grayson.

[Omaha Steve]

254. Donate to DU for Grayson through Act Blue here

https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/duforgrayson