Don't you ever say 'black on black crime' again

[ghostsinthemachine]

Ever.

Don't say it.

Don't think it.

Don't write it.

Don't spell it on Scrabble.

Don't even see what other words you can make with the letters that form black on black crime.

It is the dumbest, most ridiculously racist phrase used to describe crime in the world right now.

Have you ever heard anybody talk about white on white crime? Have you ever seen any white folk march about white crime, have conferences or gatherings focused on white on white crime? Don't lie—you know you haven't.

Almost all crime in America is committed intra-racially. That is to say, the overwhelming majority of crimes are committed by a racial group against that same group.

Yet, the only race-based phrase to ever describe crime is black on black.

Did you know....

Whites are 6 times as likely to be murdered by another white person as by a black person; and overall, the percentage of white Americans who will be murdered by a black offender in a given year is only 2/10,000ths of 1 percent (0.0002). This means that only 1 in every 500,000 white people will be murdered by a black person in a given year. Although the numbers of black-on-white homicides are higher than the reverse (447 to 218 in 2010), the 218 black victims of white murderers is actually a higher percentage of the black population interracially killed than the 447 white victims of black murderers as a percentage of the white population.

In fact, any given black person is 2.75 times as likely to be murdered by a white person as any given white person is to be murdered by an African American.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/14/1412131/-Don-t-you-ever-say-black-on-black-crime-again?detail=facebook

[ram2008]

1. I'm not seeing how it's a racist phrase

It is a very serious issue that deserves attention, calling people racist who want to help solve it helps no one.

[HFRN]

2. 'calling people racist who want to help solve it helps no one.'

there are people hell bent on calling everyone racist for everything, so calling them racist for that is just being redundant

[pocoloco]

73. dailykos gets way out on the left wing every once in a while

and stretch things a tad, but they sure got the cartoon with
Hillary's nose up the elephants ass right on!
?1429127468

[Quayblue]

82. Where is the proposal for a solution?

I see the phrase used as refutation, but never on basis of genuine concern and activism.

[tenisfin]

97. Sweet Jesus, this argument sets my teeth on edge!!

This "argument" is nothing, NOTHING more than a red herring to derail any discussion about crime against unarmed black men, especially young ones! It's a hannity favorite. . . . .

[Quayblue]

107. yep

I am a dry person and particularly so when I see folks not even attempt to delve into the issues prominent among the disenfranchised and poor communities in this country. Why do these problems exist?

Murder in the United States is a public health issue. Intraracial murder, mass murder and police murders are public health issues, and catalyzed in part by Reagan policies.

but who gives a fuck though.

It's easy to say black folks are killing each other, but it's not easy to acknowledge the complicity of the government and mainstream American culture

[Fred Sanders]

4. What are "white on brown" or "white on red" crimestats? Now do you see how the term is racist??

Honestly, I would like your reply.

"I don't know how it is a racist phrase"....wow. It was just explained to you!

If that is the level of understanding of even a few Sanders supporters or anyone that lives and breathes.....then I got nothing else to add.

[ram2008]

5. There are statistics for that

Inter and intra racial stats exist, their existence doesn't mean anyone's racist.

[Fred Sanders]

7. You are again missing the point, or not wanting to see the point, because that some guy can figure out the stats is not the point. Try again.

For the point, please re-read the OP...or for the first time.

[ram2008]

38. It's an absurd point

People who use the phrase black on black crime are not racists. It can however be used in racist ways depending on the context, but not always.

[Ace Rothstein]

41. Exactly

If someone wants to pull out the "but black on black crime" card as a response to an unarmed black person getting killed by the police then that would certainly be something that is considered racist. Using the phrase black on black crime in a different context such as a discussion of crime statistics is not racist.

[roody]

54. Do they say "white on white" crime?

[whathehell]

98. Yes, in fact, they do.

You've heard of the social sciences, perhaps?...Disciplines like Sociology and Criminology?

Those are some of the subjects studied.

[Ed Suspicious]

44. You feel there is not value in understanding the statistical implication of who perpetrates and who

is victimized by crime? I'm not sure I do either, but I haven't given it enough thought. I won't dismiss it out of hand.

[Fred Sanders]

67. You feel there is value in constructing strawmen questions?

[Ed Suspicious]

69. Yeah. Welcome to ignore.

[Fred Sanders]

70. Thank you....the feeling is mutual.

[passiveporcupine]

85. This isn't about Sanders supporters...so knock that off

But, it is about perpetuating racism by implying that blacks are not capable of living without crime, even against each other.

How about gay on gay crime? Has anyone got that down as a way to minimize or put down gays?

Black on black crime is used to diminish the importance of white on black by police, the prison system, the judicial system, the war on drugs...the whole shebang.

You are right. Crime is crime. Crime has no skin tone. But racial profiling sure does.

[sufrommich]

6. Have you ever heard anyone concern themselves with

white on white crime?

[Go Vols]

10. I hear it every time I go to the bar

White dope addicts stealing,home invasion,robbery,ect. committed against other whites.

Seems quite a few people 30 and under are on dope here,wont work,and break the law to get it.

I bought a 70 inch flat screen last year,a buddy stopped and told me that if I left the empty box by the road for the garbage man,it was an invitation for the crankheads to break in and steal it.

[sufrommich]

21. That's not concern for crime based on race.

That's based on junkies.

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. Really? I the bar people obssess about white people stealing from white people? ...

Or, are they talking about "some crankhead ripping off my 70 inch flat screen?"

See the difference?

[Go Vols]

46. The last complaint I heard

was 3 kids doing a home invasion stealing guns,jewelry and money at gun point.

I really don't see that the motive to do such is relevant.Breaking the law for whatever reason is still breaking the law.

[1StrongBlackMan]

48. Again ...

Was the complaint you heard: 3 WHITE kids doing a home invasion stealing guns, jewelry and money at gun point FROM WHITE PEOPLE.

That would be the only way what you heard in the bar would be relevant to the absurdity of talking about Black on Black crime.

[Go Vols]

56. Yes,WHITE

I live in a town of about 10k,we have a black mayor and about 300+ black people living here.

My black friends fuck with me about all the white on white crime here.They are cool with smoking a J and drinking a beer as am I,they are not dope addicts, and from talking to them,they know few/none that are.

[1StrongBlackMan]

59. Okay. n/t

[passiveporcupine]

93. YOu actually hear the term

white on white crime?

[Go Vols]

101. Just from my black friends

and they are fucking with me when they say "white on white crime",but they are correct tho in our tiny part of the world.

But the question that I initially responded to asked:

Have you ever heard anyone concern themselves with

white on white crime?

Which I answered above.

[zappaman]

103. I have never heard anyone on this planet...

In real life or online say "white on white crime".

[Go Vols]

111. Can't help you on the real life part

but you can fix the other by googling it.

[Quayblue]

114. nope

I lived in Washington... about 10 years ago I was in the height of meth in Kitsap county and worked in an ER. We regularly had patients checked in by LEO being cranked out. The media coverage was nowhere in comparison of the headlines during the crack era of Detroit's 80s that I grew up in. In fact, meth coverage was sympathetic.

Meth, and now synthetic opioids, are a huge problem, but there is nowhere near the coverage, nor legislation crack had.

There is a pointed difference.

[Ace Rothstein]

13. White on white crime happens at a much lesser rate.

I believe the white on white crime rate in the US is comparable to European crime rates.

[Fred Sanders]

15. I believe you never even read the OP!

[Ace Rothstein]

16. I believe I did.

I even clicked on the link. I don't agree with the OP, after all it is an opinion piece.

[saturnsring]

36. dont you know

That if your disagee it's because you dont get it or you didnt read it

[840high]

60. Finding it out. Differences

in opinion are not welcomed here.

[pnwmom]

9. The people who use that dehumanizing phrase don't want to HELP.

They're trying to minimize their own responsibility and shift it to black people.

[sufrommich]

25. And it comes up whenever the police kill an

unarmed,innocent black person,like clockwork.

[Liberal_in_LA]

117. it is racist

[HFRN]

3. is that a battery on your shoulder?

[B Calm]

8. Too much Political Correctness is scaring people away from the democratic party.

[HFRN]

11. yup.

'Doesn't matter that you've supported civil rights for 50 years! You must still confess that you are a White Supremacist!!!'

yeah, that really motivates a young person to devote their future to civil rights, seeing how much disrespect someone who did, gets

[Fred Sanders]

17. First of all, that was not the phrase used, secondly, this faux outrage helps no one, and thirdly,

did you read the OP and even try to understand it?

[840high]

62. I choose to ignore PC.

[nomorenomore08]

83. Suggesting that black people aren't as dangerous as the RW media portrays them

is "political correctness"?

[Snow Leopard]

115. Maybe I am reading the

FBI crime stats wrong then?

[nomorenomore08]

120. So do you consider every individual black person a threat to you?

To the point of avoiding association with anyone who isn't lily-white? Perhaps you don't, but that's the mentality seemingly promoted by the media outlets I speak of.

Plus, did you miss the part where you're 6 times more likely to be murdered by a white person (assuming you're white)?

[Facility Inspector]

12. Petulant

[Fred Sanders]

18. New poster....did you mean to say "uppity"?

[Facility Inspector]

19. Good to see you agree.

This is definitely the result of raising a generation of "special snowflakes" who have never been told "NO."

Here's your original post with no edits:

Original version with no edits.
18. Irrelevant.

[Fred Sanders]

20. I agree you are boring. And completely readable.

[Facility Inspector]

22. Wow, personal attack, couldn't see that coming

Smart people talk about ideas, bubba.

[Fred Sanders]

26. Yeah, like posting "Petulant" as your whole comment is an idea!???

Bubba?

[Facility Inspector]

29. Sometimes one word can say a lot

and it does express my idea quite well.

Notice how I haven't called you any names.

You sound like a post count bigot and a bully.

Notice how I didn't actually call you a bigot or a bully.

You "sound" like one.

[Fred Sanders]

33. "Post count bigot"! You made me laugh...thanks for that!

[Facility Inspector]

35. So why is it relevant for you

to make note of my "new" status?

Sure sounds like a form of bigotry to me.

You're placing me in a dark "Other" 2nd class status because of my low post count.

How is that not bullying?

That, in addition to your personal attacks.

"Physician, heal thyself"

[tkmorris]

75. I can think of a word you sound like

But seriously, this whole line of discussion isn't helping.

[Facility Inspector]

76. you just prove my point

why the need for such nastiness?

[Lilith Rising]

100. As you can see I am a low post count

person myself, however I've not had any problems with folks questioning my sincerity.

Perhaps it has something to do with the content (or lack thereof) of your posts?

[zappaman]

102. Hmmmm....I think you may be on to something!

[1StrongBlackMan]

42. Don't fret ...

"Bubba" is a term of endearment! Or, a least that what he told me when I had the same reaction.

[Fred Sanders]

61. This one is obvious...I feel like a cat with a still squirming mouse.

[zappaman]

64. I have to agree.

[Facility Inspector]

77. stalky stalkerton!

[1StrongBlackMan]

68. Take a shower ... You'll be all right. n/t

[Facility Inspector]

79. Indeed!

[Facility Inspector]

84. a cat?

here kitty kitty.

[zappaman]

65. Jury results

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Fri Aug 14, 2015, 04:55 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I agree you are boring. And completely readable.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7078078

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

I'm tired of reading this user's insulting comments and this is definitely a personal attack.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Aug 14, 2015, 05:03 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster this poster is responding to is even worse and, IMO, is a troll.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I do not see the post as a "personal attack"... what I do see is an alerter with a very thin skin.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Fred Sanders]

66. Thanks, Zappaman! Looks like my squirming mouse has no sense of humor, or honor.

[Facility Inspector]

81. abusive bully

abuses.

No feeding for you!

[Fred Sanders]

87. Still squirming!

[Facility Inspector]

89. Childish

It's been fun mucking about in your personal attack sewer, but someone PM'ed and gave me the rundown on your MO and suggested I put you on ignore. I think I will take their advice.

[Fred Sanders]

91. Not to worry, other cats will take up the chase. "Petulant".....properly used.

[Facility Inspector]

24. Uh, no

You can google the dictionary definition of the word "petulant."

It is a different word than "uppity."

If I meant uppity, I would have wrote that instead.

[B Calm]

23. Spot on! +1

[Fred Sanders]

27. Spot off. -1

[B Calm]

32. LOL

[cherokeeprogressive]

119. The tone of the OP was petulant. Take your blinders off.

If only for a moment.

[hill2016]

14. I think the main concern

is how high that is compared to other similar metrics.

If a certain subset of crime looks quite high compared to comparable statistics, doesn't it make sense to try to find out why?

Is the statement "most murders are created by males" sexist?

[REP]

28. Never have. Recognized it for what it was right away.

[Fred Sanders]

30. Look at the folks on the thread who are apprently "offended".... because they like the racist phrase....

[Facility Inspector]

31. Your lashing out sounds like you are the one who has a sad

or a hurt about something.

[hill2016]

34. is the phrase

"male-on-female violence" sexist?

[TeeYiYi]

45. What would be the point?...

...unless you're working on your college 'male-on-female violence' thesis.

Mention the vic. Name the perp. Post a mugshot. I can do the rest. I'm happy to come to my own conclusions; make my own deductions. I don't need you or anyone else to spell out the obvious.

To flog your personal deductions in my general direction, suggests an agenda. I really don't need your help.

TYY

[Igel]

104. Begging the question.

Never a pretty sight.

Doesn't make for a pretty site, either.

Or a pretty cite.

[TeeYiYi]

37. Crime reporting...

...doesn't require a coloring book and a box of Crayolas.

Name the perps. Post the mugshots. I'll make my own demographic deductions. Anything else is agenda driven, racist manipulation by the mainstream media.

TYY

[Igel]

106. And you'll get it wrong.

You'll miss the data. You'll see the anecdotes.

And you'll intuitively get the stats wrong.

Even using arithmetic, like in the OP, they get conclusions and probabilities wrong. But it confirms the bias, and that's all that matters.

[Shandris]

39. Let's see.

One post, highly invective, controversial topic...

Seems legit. Carry on.

[Egnever]

43. Statistics are funny things

While it is true that most crimes are inter racial . it is also true that the crime rate in black communities is much higher than in any other community. For example in 2013 there were 3005 white people murdered and 2491 black people murdered.

While most of those murders were done by people of the same race as the victim there are almost 5 times as many white people in america as black that makes the murder rate in the black community appallingly high by any standard.

So while we can play with numbers and pretend that white on white crime is the same because most crime happens within the same community black white or anything else the actual rate at which it occurs within those communities is not nearly the same and that IS a problem.

Yes there are lots of reasons for there to be more crime in black communities because of things like poverty or other inequalities. There can be no denying the fact that the homicide rate is almost 5 times as high in the black community as it is in the white community.

That is a big problem no matter what you want to call it. Not so much for me cause I am a white guy and the chances of me being affected by that appallingly high murder rate are small but I am concerned for the lives and safety of all of the black people that are in danger of being affected by that statistic.

So what should we call that frighteningly high crime rate in black communities especially considering it is mostly perpetrated on others inside the community?

Better yet what can be done to change it?

Homicide rates according to the FBI

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

[840high]

94. Thank you for a sane post.

[arithia]

138. indeed, they are funny things

and are easily manipulated by people when removed from all sociological context- like looking at the number of black people vs the number of whites and saying, superficially, "that demographic has more murders than that demographic!" without mentioning things like population distribution, history, economics, segregation, gun control, local policies and geography.

At the least, comparing murders in densely populated areas vs rural is disingenuous. The following link is a good read. I suggest you give it a few minutes of your time.

http://nhi.org/online/issues/147/privilegedplaces.html

Cherry Hill in Baltimore, a primarily black neighborhood that was once plagued by violence, recently went 400 days without a single homicide. They did it by addressing the socio-economic reasons that lead to the murder rate plaguing their community. It was treated as a public health crisis brought about by lack of opportunity and resources. The approach worked.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=14162

[Egnever]

139. Both interesting articles

There is no question there are a lot of factors involved in the disparity in violence. Yet the disparity exists.

It sounds from the article as though the Cherry hill community solved a good portions of their problems by becoming involved in the community. Having people engaged in the streets working to stop the cycle appears to have worked for them. It is a great start and hopefully other communities will learn from it.

As far as rural VS densely populated you could look at say Chicago which is almost evenly divided as far as race with 32% black and 31% white. Yet the disparity in homicide rates is even worse than on the national scale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago

The black murder victimization rate was approximately 34 per 100,000; the Hispanic rate was 11 per 100,000, and the white rate 3 per 100,000

Nearly ten times as high when nationally it is closer to 5.

In St Luis the same thing holds true.

Of the 103 murders this year, 90 of the victims have been African-American. Ten have been white. Other races fill in the balance. Another way of looking at those numbers: If you're black in St. Louis, you're nine times more likely this year to be murdered than if you're white.*

The population of St. Louis also breaks down with 46% white and 47% black. Again the disparity in homicides is worse than the national average.

Brooklyn
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/nyc-murder-statistics-brooklyn-2012_n_3035372.html
Victims still were mostly black and Hispanic, a pattern that has existed for at least the past two decades. Some 60 percent of the homicide victims were black in 2012, compared to 27 percent Hispanic, 9 percent white and 4 percent Asian, according to NYPD statistics. Those killed were mostly men, accounting for 84 percent of all victims, compared to 16 percent for women.

Closer to the national average but still.

I am having trouble finding a densely populated city where this pattern does not repeat itself.

The point is there is a real problem and we have to identify it some way and address it. The Cherry hill community appears to be onto a good thing. Hopefully more cities will take notice and replicate their success. Till then what do you suggest we call this trend if not black on black crime I am open to suggestions but the problem no matter what you want to call it exists and the labeling is not the problem.

[arithia]

141. The disparity exists

because the objective black experience in America is not the same as the objective white experience in America. As such, it is disingenuous to compare the two populations murder rates and say it's a problem inherent to blacks, regardless of whether or not their demographic is disproportionately affected in terms of murders per total population.

You bring up black vs white population in cities, but not outside of them. Again, if the majority of your population is centered in an urban area, it is going to be disproportionately impacted by problems that affect urban areas.

You make no mention of Sundown Towns or segregation.

You make no mention of the fact that blacks are paid less than whites.

You make no mention of greater unemployment rates in cities, let alone among blacks.

You make no mention of higher poverty rates among the black population.

You make no mention of racial-based hiring practices long established to be in existence in the US.

You make no mention of predatory lending practices that led to the Great Recession. These practices targeted blacks for loans they would be unable to afford, causing a collapse in black Net Wealth and driving many from home ownership to rentals. (Rent is now well past the mark of affordability for the average American.)

You make no mention of discriminatory police practices, for-profit prisons, the school to prison pipeline, underfunded city and minority heavy school districts or access to medical or support social services.

You can spit numbers out all you want. They mean very little on their own other than a public health crisis that isn't being addressed because this is a complex social issue that boils down to more than the skin color of murderer and victim.

Labeling is indeed the problem when it is an easy out born of laziness and fails to address the problem. The idea that if everyone just tries hard enough, they will get to the finish line eventually does hold true... but only if we, collectively, as Americans, admit that not everyone has to run as far to the finish as white males.

[Egnever]

142. Of course not

The post I was responding to originally wasn't interested in any of that either.

I said in those posts that there were a lot of factors involved in it. That does not negate the fact that it exists. I am not blaming anyone, there are myriad factors contributing to it. All I am saying is the idea of describing it accurately as black on black crime as some sort of racial slur that can never be said is nonsense.

Whether or not you like it those numbers do mean something. You can describe it any way you like but it is undeniable and needs to be addressed. The people in Chapel hill recognized it and did something about it I applaud them for that. I would think they have proven that the violence is not necessary in spite of all the underlying factors that contribute to it.

[monicaangela]

47. The term is gut wrenching and does appear to have racial connotations

but as the article states, crime is more likely to be perpetrated on those in close proximity. If the nation was more integrated maybe crime would be more difficult to classify in this manner. I wonder if the recent discovery of so many white policemen killing African Americans was added to the equation when whoever did this study did the study. I also wonder if the information they were looking for when they did the study was available to them, and I wonder if that information were known, would it have changed their statistics. I personally believe that the info of which I speak would skew those numbers to no end and therefore disqualify the term.

[Igel]

109. Not everything racial is racist.

We're terrified of being called the word "racist," against there is no defense. The best you can hope for is to ignore it--the more you protest, the more you lose.

Sometimes it's just plain idiocy to confuse the two. There was a hypertension drug that passed the FDA tests. But once in use, it was found to be fairly ineffective. They squared the circle by looking at the data and found that the drug was effective among African-Americans. The drug was useless with whites and Asians. The first impulse, the first reports, declared the study racist because it said there was a difference between blacks and whites in the US. This was pure knee-jerk mindless drivel of the highest order: The "racism" pointed out a biological, gene-based difference that was targeted by a specific chemical when in the human body, a difference that had the not trivial promise of saving lives. Why? Because it's also true that the AfAm community has a higher hypertension rate. And, yes, this simple factual, true observation has also been called racist because it pointed out something racial. (Last I heard, preliminary evidence showed that this was also true of sub-Saharan Africans who adopted a Western, high-salt diet, but that was preliminary.)

We also twist ourselves into little knotted nappies every time SNAP and other entitlement programs crop up because we're afraid of self-appointed spokesmen who are concerned about image. Now it's inflammatory and racist to point out that AfAm folk disproportionately receive SNAP; at one point 45% or so of welfare recipients were AfAm. Now it's progressive to point out the same fact, because it's prima facie evidence that something needs to be done to alleviate poverty. Same fact. Now it's racist, now it's progressive. Depends not on what use you make of it. What matters is what the self-appointed Judge of the universe condemning or praising you suspects you really intend by mentioning the fact--is it this 30000 Hz dog whistle that only dogs hear? Or is your heart pure, cleansed of all sin? Because you can't be trusted to mean what you say you mean.

That said, there are lots of classes of crimes. One is called "stranger homicide." Most homicides are between people who know each other. Stranger homicides are homicides in which there's no (known) connection between the killer and the killee.

AA offenders commit about half of stranger homicides. 13% of the population, 49% or so of offenders. This is a fact; it is not racist, it is not progressive, it is not reactionary. It merely is. However, like a lot of other categories, it is skewed. If the homicide rate were constant across all racial groups, it would not be nearly that high.

[Snow Leopard]

140. good post

wish i was as eloquent

[monicaangela]

147. I don't know anyone who isn't racist that is terrified of being called racist...

Racism is prevalent in this nation. To be factual, the nation was built by white supremacist using the labor of others to complete the task. So I don't hide from the term when it is used, I more often than not try to remember the reasons the term is being used and then try to find justification for or opposition to the term based upon the evidence used by the person presenting the term.

Your analogy regarding a drug that works in the case of blacks as opposed to whites is just that, an analogy. You are stating emphatically that the systems of all African Americans in this nation are the same. Not all black people have high blood pressure, so even though a larger number may be diagnosed with the disease, there are many factors that go into the causation of the problem, not just a diet that includes too much salt. Where did you get your facts? It is a proven fact that a scientist can make a study say whatever he/she wants it to say, I'm sure you're aware of that.

Regarding your statement that we are twisted into whatever you claim we are twisted into when it comes to SNAP, I have to also remind you that even if your percentages are correct, the reasons behind the facts need to be dealt with...we need to ask ourselves why this is, if we do, we often find that facts lead to inequality due to conditions that were created during the inception of this nation, after it was taken from the native Americans. What caused the conditions? You should study that before discounting a person that would say many of these conditions come from pure unadulterated racism.

RE: Your interpretation of Stranger Homicides and AA's as you abbreviate the term, I have to again ask...where are you getting your statistics and what kind of crimes are you including in your statistics...did you consider white collar crime? I wonder.

[Throd]

49. Best to ignore it and hope it goes away.

[jalan48]

50. I believe 'black on black' crime is a way to minimize and make acceptable current police practices.

It's a form of language that is being exploited to make Americans believe blacks commit more crime and are therefore more dangerous, which then leads to the acceptance of brutal law enforcement practices.

[sufrommich]

53. That's the way it's almost always used.You would have to

live in a cave to have not noticed it. Another common way it's used is "how come #blacklivesmatter doesn't care about black on black crime,hmmmmm?",it's almost always used as a racist dog whistle.Some here want to pretend it's not.

[Zenlitened]

71. Exactly. -n/t

[roody]

51. Agreed. Never did. Never would.

[HereSince1628]

52. To compare the significance of b on b vs w on black crime I need both incidence rates

are they hiding somewhere in what wasn't posted?

Milwaukee City police (under control of a white guy) and Milwaukee Co police (under control of a black guy) BOTH say black on black violence is a huge problem.

Please make this easy...show me the comparative Ethnicity vs Other Ethnicity data of ALL the ethnic/racial groups simultaneously.

Yes. I -am- lazy.

[Travis_0004]

137. Here

[HereSince1628]

145. IMO, that's a problem for the OP.

Yes, all these killings are bad. I don't condone them a bit...

But it sure looks like the data shows a difference between rates of killing stratified by race of killer vs race of victim.

I can't say if there is a problem with the reported data itself, but I think that's where one must go if you want to insist that black on black killings don't have a higher incidence.

[fbc]

55. yeah, if that phrase doesn't sound an alarm in your brain, you should really do some thinking

[alcibiades_mystery]

57. The racists have already routed around this. Now they say...

"But do you care about gang murders in CHICAGO and BALTIMORE???? What about those murders, hmmmmm? You know, the GANG murders?????"

It's the new racist way of saying "black on black crime."

We're really living in a world of racist shitheadery.

[DonCoquixote]

58. Have you ever heard anybody talk about white on white crime? Have you ever seen any white folk march

for what it is worth, I would LOVE to hear that, especially as office shootings are very much an example of white on white crime. Seriously, how many Black serial killers can you rattle off, or black office shooters? For some reason, some eprson that buys a shitload of ammo and shoots people is never considered a race crime, though so many of them read racist literature.

[Live and Learn]

63. Thank you. I can't stand that term.

And it is never relevant when it is brought up.

[passiveporcupine]

72. Hear Hear!

[Zenlitened]

74. It's a right-wing talking point. And right-wingers are racists...

...practically by definition. So yes, it's a racist term. The use, meaning and intent are obvious, every time.

Yet day after day, conservatives prove the adage, "Stupid people think the rest of us are as stupid as they are."

[Ed Suspicious]

86. Right. They co-opt and distort all sorts of meaningful shit. When a shithead FOX viewer uses it

absolutely racist. When a demographer, anthropologist, or sociologist uses it, it's meaningful.

[Fred Sanders]

88. No one but racists use the term. Social scientists do not.

[Zenlitened]

108. It's clear that such scientists are vastly outnumbered...

...by, as you phrased it, "shithead Fox viewers."

Also known as stupid people who think the rest of us are as stupid as they are.

No matter where they turn up.

[boatsnhose]

78. What?

[Fred Sanders]

90. Where?

[nomorenomore08]

80. For one thing, seriously discussing "white on white crime" (in those terms) would undermine the myth

that black folks are a constant and serious danger to white folks. And if the white folks weren't so damn scared, they might be less inclined to endorse further growth of the police state.

[Travis_0004]

92. Here is the data

[840high]

96. That is staggering. Many

innocent people are killed in the crossfire, too.

[seveneyes]

128. How is this enormous disparity explained?

9.3 victims for whites and 0.77 for non-whites? How can such a difference remain ignored by so many?

Something seriously deadly is going on and it appears to be quietly ignored.

[Doctor_J]

95. Point taken, but some of these numbers are obscenely misleading - could in fact be classified as

nonsense. Just as an example, let's say there are 4 times as many whites as blacks in the US. Then, if, say, you chose the murders of 5 white people at random, the simple percentages imply that 4 of those murders were perpetrated by another white person, while one would be perpetrated by a black person.

2/10,000ths of 1 percent (0.0002). This means that only 1 in every 500,000 white people will be murdered by a black person in a given year.

This statement is completely content free out of context. I can't even figure out what it's doing these, except to show a small decimal number. It's like when the NRA says you're more likely to be struck by a meteor than shot by an AR-whatever. So what? That doesn't excuse any of the murders with an AR.

In fact, any given black person is 2.75 times as likely to be murdered by a white person as any given white person is to be murdered by an African American.

Again, the difference in the raw numbers of blacks and whites accounts for much of this. If the interracial murder rate was "the same", there would be many more white on black murders than the reverse.

Our entire crime rate, especially the violent crime rate, is awful. Painting a distorted picture using bogus numbers adds emotion, with almost no contribution to the solution.

rec anyway

[mvd]

112. There is an important point though

Only saying "black on black" without ever saying "white on white" or any race on any of the same race does seem racist. I hope violence in the black, white, whatever communities is addressed and reduced - we need less violence in general.

[nomorenomore08]

122. It's more about debunking the racial fearmongering of the Right, though.

The same sort of mentality which leads people to, for instance, applaud overly aggressive police action toward black suspects.

[Doctor_J]

130. Then why fill the opinion piece with a pack of lies?

[1939]

99. I really hate to wade in here

because the whole thing has gone off the rails.

One of the biggest problems of poor African-Americans in the cities of our country is the high level of violent and property crimes to which they are subject. How can we improve their quality of life unless we (society as a whole "we&quot can protect them against crime? As statistics show, it is primarily their fellows who are victimizing them. How can we protect them?

[Marr]

116. C'mon, don't you know it's racist to talk about a problem like this?

A very sensitive liberal white supremacist told me so, as he was drinking a $5 coffee and redesigning his blog.

I live in a black neighborhood in Los Angeles myself, and I can assure you the people living here are very interested in reducing crime rates, which everyone who isn't fucking blind can see are elevated as hell. There's a gang problem, which is mostly a product of the 'War on Drugs', and high unemployment, which is a product of... well, just about everything that's wrong with the country, from 1%er-first economics to systemic racism.

Ignoring the high crime that plagues a lot of black neighborhoods, or worse-- fucking acting like even noting it is racist... Jesus... talk about living in a fucking bubble. There's a point where this word police bullshit becomes worse than unproductive, and actually becomes counterproductive.

[nomorenomore08]

123. There's a massive difference between discussing the crime problem out of genuine concern

and using it to paint a whole race of people in a negative light. We have to be careful to differentiate between the two.

[whathehell]

105. Bullshit. The Word Police clocked out for the weekend, and

people.are free to say what they want.

P.S. The author of that piece got a lot of pushback on Kos, and rightly so.

[Quayblue]

110. please crosspost this in the AA forum nt

[Igel]

113. We hear about the need for handgun training before a gun is purchased.

It's something I can get on board with. "Well regulated" in the 1790s could be "provisioned according to rules" or "trained according to rules." ("Governed and controlled" wasn't an option.)

Sadly, we don't hear about the need for numeracy training before calculators and spreadsheet programs are purchased.

There was a dork here on DU years ago who constantly ran high-level stats using Excel using exit poll and election data. He was clueless as to when it was appropriate to use the stats or the valid inferences that could be drawn, but it didn't stop him from pontificating on his wonderful Excel skills. The more he was asked about the assumptions, the more he said, "But Excel!" Truly sad.


So the stats in the article are quoted correctly but then abused. Conclusions are drawn based upon variance from random chance, but the writer doesn't bother to point out what random chance would be--and the idea of margins of error? Ha! We're encouraged to be knee-jerk outraged over things we don't understand because people don't want to be embarrassed. The writer doesn't want to be ashamed of the stats, which reflect truly horrendously shameful behavioral norms. And so he decides to shame into silence with absurd statements nobody dares challenge.

Truly, some American minds need coddling.

What's sad is the level of hypocrisy involved. Because in other contexts, the disproportionate intraracial homicide rate is used as positive evidence to encourage change and help. Now it doesn't exist and it's racist to mention it; now it must be shouted because something must be done to resolve a racist injustice. The only thing the two views have in common is the attempt to shame.

[NYCButterfinger]

118. I disagree with the author of that diary on DKos. You can't restrict free speech. Period.

Crime is crime, and crime happens in urban areas. Period. Crime is committed by both races.

[Android3.14]

121. And the language police descend once again

It's a statistical descriptor, and statisticians use the other descriptor, white-on-white, for that particular circumstance.

If we cannot even talk about the measurable data, then what's the point of even trying to deal with racism?

[ryan_cats]

124. I don't answer to you n/t

I don't answer to you.

[Logical]

132. Lol, calm the fuck down nt

[ryan_cats]

133. Did you respond to the correct post? N/T

Did you respond to the correct post?

[romanic]

125. You can choose not to say it.

That doesn't mean it won't go away. The reality for those who live in low-income, mostly black neighborhoods, is that they are preyed upon by the people that live around them: aka, other black people. Lack of jobs, shitty schools, broken homes, little to no policing, no dreams or hope...people get desperate and/or don't give a fuck about others. It happens a lot in the hood. Statistics don't lie and black-on-black crime is an issue that needs to be discussed.

[Waiting For Everyman]

126. If people focused on getting laws changed

as much as they focus on words and controlling what others say and think, this problem would've been licked long ago.

There can be change if the path of unity is followed, or there can be ego-stroking and more of the same if the path of division is followed. The choice is there to go either way, we'll see which one matters more, to more people. Or maybe I should say enough people. Enough to get something done.

Personally, I don't care that much about the words a person uses, I care about the thought a person is trying to convey to me -- that's what I read, and consider, and evaluate by. And I'd hope that's what I'd get in return. That's what communication is. It is not one-sided, and it is not hostile -- that's bullying. That's what we're supposed to be standing against. And I intend to continue doing just that, even though I believe in the cause, the end does not justify the means.

[XemaSab]

127. Let's look at the numbers, shall we?

Leading Causes of Death by Age Group, Black Males-United States, 2013

1-4: Unintentional injuries, homicide, birth defects, heart disease, cancer
5-9: Unintentional injuries, cancer, chronic lower respiratory diseases, birth defects, homicide
10-14: Unintentional injuries, homicide, cancer, suicide, chronic lower respiratory diseases
15-19: Homicide, unintentional injuries, suicide, heart disease, cancer
20-24: Homicide, unintentional injuries, suicide, heart disease, cancer
25-34: Homicide, unintentional injuries, heart disease, suicide, cancer
35-44: Heart disease, unintentional injuries, homicide, cancer, HIV

http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2013/Blackmales2013.pdf

--------------

Percent of male deaths from homicide in all races in the 20-24 cohort:

Natives: 6.9%

Asians: 7.7%

Whites: 8.0%

Hispanics: 19.9%

Blacks: 49.9%

-------------

Murder victims by age, sex, and race:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-2

-------------

When we say "Black Lives Matter," do we mean "Only If The Perpetrator Is A White Cop?"

Or do black lives lost to stupid street violence also matter?

It's dangerous to be a young black man.

[seveneyes]

129. This chart appears to speak to the problem

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027077919#post92

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

134. Unfortunately, when you consider

When you look at the violent crime statistics (murder, assault, and rape) committed by race, and then consider that blacks make up about 13% of the population, the real horror of that number sinks in. This is the atmosphere that so many black parents are raising their kids in.

We need to:

End the war on drugs
Create decent jobs programs
and emphasize EDUCATION.

And, I'll get pounded for this, statistically, black kids with two parents are not that much more likely to live in poverty than white kids.

http://blackdemographics.com/households/poverty/ - Very interesting statistics cited here (study 2012, I think).

Black 2 parent households with kids in poverty - 11.0 %
All (races) 2 parent households with kids in poverty - 8.7 %

Black female headed household with kids in poverty 47.5 %
All (races) female headed household with kids in poverty 41.5 %

Now, tell me, what is the greatest factor in predicting child poverty and all the ensuing problems that accompany poverty?

But, let's not talk about it lest we hurt someone's feelings or appear to be judgmental.

Fact is, it is damn hard to raise a child on your own. I applaud women who do it well, or give it their all, but not talking about it doesn't help anyone. At least "most" kids in divorce have had a chance to bond to their other parent and get child support.

[NaturalHigh]

131. Don't say it. Don't think it. Don't write it.

Well okay, if you say so. I mean, I wouldn't want to think something that you don't approve of.

[cpwm17]

135. Yes, so all of those young black male faces involved in serious crimes against people of all races

especially against fellow blacks, that I see dominating the leading stories of the local news (central Florida) almost every evening I should ignore:

Don't say it.

Don't think it.

Don't write it.

OK

[Ms. Toad]

136. The context in which I first heard it outside of scholarly documents

was to counter the myth that black people are out to of the big evil black man who is out to kill/maim/rape/etc. white people - by way of pointing out that intra-racial crime is much more prevalent than interracial crime.

Using that phrase as a counter-argument may have devolved to have negative racial connotations - things often do, but it was used to expressly counter racism for at least several years after I first heard it.

(And - FWIW, I have heard the phrase white-on-white crime and, less frequently, other racial variations. But that is generally because such phrases are common in some of the scholarly documents I read.)

[yuiyoshida]

143. Seems to me this is something the Republicans love

to throw around, especially on Fox News by Right wingers. Its the only place I have ever seen it, and its mentioned a lot on Right wing radio. I am so glad I don't have tv and as for Radio, I just listen to Giants and Raiders games now.

[KentuckyWoman]

144. You forgot "don't do it".

And I'm pretty sure the dead person doesn't much care what skin color the killer had.

[Travis_0004]

146. If we cant talk about black on black crime, do black lives matter only when killed by a white person