Little Mini-rant on prescription painkillers...

[Humanist_Activist]

OK, this is something that I really changed my perspective on, at least in passion, compared to several years ago.

I will admit that I have yet had the need for prescription strength opiods to manage pain for myself. I have a pinched nerve in my left shoulder, but the most I've been prescribed for that is piroxicam and/or meloxicam if I need any. Mostly I just take Naproxen and call it a day if its a bad day, but it hasn't been intolerable since my shoulder was frozen many years ago.

My perspective on opiate and other addicting prescription drugs has always been to make sure the people who take them need them, but I didn't really feel that strongly about it, one way or another.

That all changed a few years ago when my mother was diagnosed with cancer, my grandmother's cancer came back, and my fiancée’s stepfather developed cancer as well, all within a span of about 1 year. By the way, fuck cancer, it fucking sucks.

The fact is, my mother was lucky, in home hospice we were able to easily manage her pain level with just a few prescription pain killers given a few times a day, up until about the last 2 days, she was conscious and cognizant. I'm glad for that.

My grandmother was a different story, even with all the painkillers they gave her, she apparently was in a lot of pain up till the end. But, from what I was told, they also didn't hold back either. Sometimes nothing can help, wish it weren't true, but it is.

Not to make things any more tragic, but my grandmother and mother died within 3 weeks of each other, it was a rough xmas/new year/birthday.

Fast forward to that coming spring/summer and my fiancée got news that her stepfather was diagnosed with late stage pancreatic cancer. She went down there to assist her mother in caring for her stepdad(they lived out of state). However, and this is where things got really fucked up, he was a recovering addict, being both a member on NA and AA. This caused problems in that the hospice actually held back pain medication in fear he would become an addict. This was a guy who was going to be live maybe an additional month, month and a half at most. Why the fuck should anyone be concerned if he is addicted to anything? He was in a hospice care facility, and apparently both my fiancée and her mother had to practically beg them to administer to him some of the strongest pain killers available. This to me seems beyond fucked up.

Now, I don't know about you, but I figure if anyone develops a terminal condition where prospects of recovery are practically non-existent, they should be allowed all the pain management medications they wan. Fuck give them every mind altering substance they could ever desire, as long as they are as comfortable as possible. If I had a choice between being high as a kite or being in excruciating pain while dying, I prefer being high, thank you very much. I also don't want to even know my own name, like I would give a shit.

And if, by some rare happen stance, I recover from said malady, then send me to rehab when I don't need the drugs any more, there should be no shame attached to chemical or psychological addiction, its a medical condition that needs to be treated as such. I would say this holds true for chronic pain suffers as well, if, in order to function, they need strong, potentially, addicting pain killers, then give it to them, as long as they are actually in pain and can be diagnosed that way. If they are addicted, manage it as a side effect of the medications, but don't cause people to needless suffer due to some misdirected war on drugs bullshit.

Actually, here's a conundrum. if someone suffers from diagnosed, chronic pain, and the only way they can function is for them to be, for example, taking oxycontin. If it allows them to function, possibly even work, within tolerable and manageable pain levels, would them being addicted to it really matter? As long as they can take it legally, and as a result, stay productive members of society without developing destructive behaviors, where's the harm?

[Warren Stupidity]

1. The Endless War On Drugs is harmfull in a vast array of ways, this being one.

We lost our collective minds somewhere in the 70's and 80's and instead of slowly recovering, we just seem to have gotten worse. There is a little bit of hope that somehow we will find our way out of this mess, but only a little bit.

My mom was in home hospice care for the last year of her life. The hospice people were great, but her brother really couldn't accept that she was dying and, he being a doctor and all, insisted on interfering in her medication. It wasn't a huge deal, she was not really in pain as much as she was in anxiety, but still it was annoying.

[Humanist_Activist]

14. My mom was in hospice about 2 and a half weeks, sorry about your mom, but we did like...

the home hospice, she was surrounded by family and friends practically 24/7, my fiancee, and I took care of her as much as we can, to help my dad, we practically moved in for the entire time. The hospice nurse would come by and check on us, but my fiancee had medical training and worked hospice before so they deferred to her a lot. Basically if my mom asked for pills for pain, she got them. The only thing the nurses did is that...afterwards, we made sure to give them what remained in the bottles we had, so they could dispose of them properly.

[Scurrilous]

2. With the DEA peering over their shoulders, hospitals & doctors have to watch their @#$.

I went to the hospital in December with a broken kneecap (slip 'n fall in the kitchen). The emergency room nurse asked "On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad is the pain?" I replied "my pain goes to 11." I still waited 5 hours (filling out forms, getting x-rays, watching my knee swell to the size of a disco ball) before they gave me a painkiller.

[woodsprite]

77. Same with my broken, dislocated shoulder

It took them 8 hrs before they gave me anything, and then it was propafel and dilaudid inorder to reduce it back in place. I came home and have been on some kind of pain mgmt off/on since April. In June, I had a manipulation under anesthesia, which put me back to square one. I still have pain some intense pain with the frozen shoulder, but I can now force 80% of the range. Before the procedure, either me or the PT couldn't even force it.

My frustration with the pain meds is that I find one that works and doesn't make me dopey, but the doc won't prescribe the same thing twice in a row even though I don't take them nearly as frequent as prescribed. I have found a couple that I absolutely can't take and have had to ask them not to put them in his rotation. I figure maybe they're rotating because of auditing purposes. They told me to expect to be on them off/on for the next 10-12 months.

[99th_Monkey]

3. I totally agree. The hysteria about this is more than a little fishy to me

I mean, even if someone isn't on their death-bed .. often people with chronic
pain CAN function more or less normally, can do things like go for long walks,
go to the gym and work out, and so on, but often only if they take a pain-killer.

Otherwise it's too damn painful to be very active at all. <-- this leads to a much
more sedentary life-style, which in turn hurts their overall health.

just saying.

The fishy part is this: I suspect that all/most opiate pain-killers are NOT still
patented and DON'T rake in huge profits for Big-Pharma; so they would like to
'invent' new drugs, with new patents, to replace the opiates.

But that's just my tin-foil hat showing.

[CountAllVotes]

5. That was me about 10 years ago

I used to take a pain pill and go out and walk. By the time I'd get home, the pill would be hopefully kicking in to give me some relief from that awful pain in my legs, feet, back, etc. etc.

Today, I can't do this any longer and having no supply of pain medication to help me get out the door sure is keeping me indoors a lot more that I'd care to admit. I find this shameful at best. Shame on all of these greedy thugs passing these laws and demanding sick people be tested for drugs. I mean seriously?

[99th_Monkey]

8. I've been very fortunate

My Doc thinks it's ridiculous too, and writes a script whenever it's need for pain, so
I can stay as active as possible.

My heart goes out to you. Anymore, these ^ kinds of docs are probably rarer than
hens teeth.

[CountAllVotes]

4. Thanks to the War on Drugs ...

I suffer greatly from CIT (Chronic Intractable Pain).

As it now stands its looking like I'll soon have to travel over 300 miles to get what I need to remain semi-intact with this crap disease called multiple sclerosis, a crippling disease it is, that offers one that has CIT a real sh*t life to live, a life you find yourself wanting OUT OF ASAP due to the pain. About 50% of all persons with M.S. suffer from pain, but how many of this roughly 50% that suffer with pain have the CIT form of pain is unknown to me.

As it now stands I have no one that will RX "controlled substances"to be unless I travel a long distance which may or may not be possible for me to do as I cannot sit in a car for very long without the pain hitting me pretty quick.

It really sucks and for me to have to travel 300 miles to remain semi-intact and able to move, this is what I"ll have to do -- either that or off myself as I cannot stand this peripheral neuralgia that I now must live with. Chronic pain shortens a person's life, this much is known.

I am really sorry to read your story about all of this cancer and pain. I've lost two immediate family members to cancer in the past 10 years and I know how much such persons suffer!

As for the AA/NA thing, well, if the person can't handle being around the substances, I suggest telling the supervisor of the Hospice place about it and see if they can find an alternative way to deal with this, if any.

Again, sorry to read your sad story. Try to hang-in there and you are right, there should be NO SHAME for for any person that living in chronic pain because they are suffering! They should be treated as what they are, human beings. Facts are pretty clear on the use of pain pills and chronic pain sufferers -- most do not become addicted!!

Damn them, damn them all! If I do not have painkillers I do one thing: Find myself in bed all day not moving. Is this what they want? Seems like it to me!

[Humanist_Activist]

7. Remember the guy in NA/AA was terminal, at that point, I would say any history with any drugs...

shouldn't matter except to avoid bad drug interactions or bad side effects that would increase suffering.

I honestly don't think that addiction, in itself, is a bad thing if it doesn't damage your health or damages your relationships and/or livelihoods.

Lots of people were and are addicted to cigarettes, and it isn't the fact that you are addicted that's the problem, its the fact that the substance you are addicted to is bad for your health. Alcoholism is damaging because of the impairment in function that results, the damage that can occur to your health, and that said impairment can damage your ability to maintain relationships and jobs.

There are plenty of things that people are addicted to, psychologically and physically, that we call habits instead, because they are mostly innocuous. Pen chewing, coffee drinking, etc.

Other addictions are normal in moderation, but become obsessions and damage relationships and/or health when taken to extremes, for example, to get obvious ones out the way, obsessive cleaning, overeating, vanity/self esteem issues, etc. Yet I don't see people trying to ban things like Windex, or makeup, or food(in general).

I think we need to view this in pathological terms, does the substance cause issues in health, well being and social repercussions? If no or if manageable, then it shouldn't be a concern if people are addicted to it. I'm thinking back to the studies done with heroin addicts in I believe Europe, who were given heroin daily, as they want, from the government, administered in a safe environment. They found that these people were still able to keep their jobs, remain productive, and outside of taking heroin, functioned normally.

I would say that the drugs you need for your condition falls under the opposite of pathological, but rather necessary medication to function, similar to needing insulin or a thyroid medication. I don't see why having increased pain isn't treated the same way as hyperthyroidism where medication is concerned. Who gives a shit if you end up addicted to the medication? If you can get out of bed in the morning, go and meet and great people, perhaps work or have a hobby, those are all pluses.

[n2doc]

6. And yet no-one in that law enforcement-fearing community gives a crap about being addicted to tobacco

One of the most addictive and destructive substances I know. But be addicted to a painkiller- oh heavens, so terrible!

Agree totally with your OP. Thanks!

[Humanist_Activist]

9. They are taxing it to oblivion, and I, for one, welcome it, was a smoker for almost 20 years...

I quit when I saw what it did to my mom, yes she got lung cancer that spread to the rest of her body.

I don't mind them making things difficult for obtaining drugs that aren't helpful or are actively harmful, even when used in moderation. But pain killers, weed and many others do NOT have to fall in that category, and if they do, need to be purified or replaced with better medications with fewer harmful side effects.

[n2doc]

20. My mom was a smoker too, and also died from cancer

I hate tobacco and what it does to people. The thing is, addicts will find a way. It is just those law abiding folks who get screwed by the drug war. I have read recently that, after they reformulated oxycontin to make it hard to grind up and get an instant high, heroin usage has shot up. People will just trade one devil for another.

[Humanist_Activist]

22. True, the key is to try to find constructive ways to treat addiction, rather than criminalizing....

addiction.

[For Freddie]

10. Regional Differences

My husband died of colon cancer in Aug. of 2011. He presented in the ER in May and was gone by Aug. We had excellent care and no qualms about pain management. I was trained and certified in home health care for AIDS so the deal we struck with the Hospice Care was he would stay at home as long as the pain was managed. And when it got to the place where it was time to go he would go in house with the ports in his arm. He took medication by mouth up to 10 days before he left the body. He did not want to die at home in consideration for our kids and grandkids.When oral medication no longer did the job he went into the hospice.

He was a recovered addict/ alcoholic. But sober for over 30 years. He was very hip on pain and drugs. His father was a Dr. and researcher.

We knew exactly what we needed. He wanted no horror or trauma for our kids and grand kids. He wanted total pain management and if that meant at the end he left the body due to pain management, Cool. He went in a beautiful way. The last 5 days asleep. He drifted away. His face de-aged and he looked about 25. The rocker bass player I married. It was a beautiful experience for my family. Sad as it was. But it was handled professionally, compassionately and beautifully. No horror, no torture, no "sin" or guilt. No added traumatization. Just the sadness of Letting Go.

I was shocked in the great difference how this is handled state to state. And corporately in different areas of the country and also in how staff and doctors approach this. The organization and corporate entity and the over riding philosophy is very important.
This way everyone is on the same page and medical egos do not muck it up. I watched people in my family on the East Coast go through hell with this difference in how end of life should proceed in terms of compassion and professional cooperation.There is often much ignorance in families and of course great fear and trauma.

The politics of death in the USA like most other things is
dysfunctional. It is surprising but economic status sometimes does not impact how this works, due to the politics involved.

Where I am, we have beautiful organizations and a choice of hospices and professionals all dedicated to quality of life and death. We did not have insurance. We were not wealthy. But the care was beautiful. There was no conflict, no stress. Just compassion, service and love. It was enlightened and kind. That is what we as a family experienced. Having worked with AIDS in the early days of the plague, and having seen all levels of how end of life is approached.

I am not afraid of "death" or dying. Only the fear and egos some bring to the experience and project on dear ones and family members, in their immature fearful attempts to cope with this very natural human experience.

Regional cultures, politics and economics have a great influence on the quality of dying in our country.
We need a national compassionate End of Life Protocol and adult choices for everyone. We need a Right to Die in compassionate humane ways available to every family. This is a universal Human Right and as a society there is a great need to respect and support this.

[Humanist_Activist]

12. Yes, there are some regional differences, I'm sorry for the loss of your husband, I'm glad he..

didn't suffer, in the end.

I think that's the key, we should have a Universal Human right to be able to avoid suffering, if possible. If medications are available to ease your pain, you should be able to access them.

[LiberalElite]

11. I thought that it was impossible

to get addicted to an addictive painkiller if you were actually in pain. Only those who didn't need it would get addicted.

[Humanist_Activist]

13. Chemical addiction is chemical addiction, but the point is, does it matter if you need it?

I'm not talking withdrawal, but being in chronic pain so severe that you are unable to leave bed, or unable to walk properly, which further injuries your body or damages your health, etc.

[LiberalElite]

15. I agree with you eom

[Mariana]

18. That's not true.

When you take a physically addicting drug regularly, your body adapts to the drug over time. Basically, the presence of the drug and the effects become the new "normal" state. After that happens, you'll have withdrawal symptoms if you stop taking it. Whether you're taking the drug to relieve pain or to get high doesn't matter.

With painkillers, the withdrawals are unpleasant but not particularly dangerous, not like alcohol and some other drugs. Sudden withdrawal from those can kill you.

[CTyankee]

39. for me, after a difficult surgery I had pain pills during the healing of my gut and

when I was all healed I no longer needed nor wanted the hydrocodone. So my experience was different, I guess...

[Mariana]

40. For most people, it takes a long time

and a high dose before they're really physically addicted and have significant withdrawal symptoms. Limbaugh, for example, was taking the stuff by the handful every day for years. Of course, he was taking it to get high, so he kept taking more and more and more. My experience was more like yours. I took hydrocodone daily for quite a long time, but the dose was pretty low, and I only ever took just enough to relieve the pain. Still, the doc had me taper off it so as to avoid withdrawal. I never craved it.

[sorefeet]

33. Thats true for chronic pain

hydrocodone for about 10 years now for severe neuropathy. I could give a shit if I ever took another pill, but I have no choice. I am not addicted but I am dependent on them. Meaning no pills, no me. I refuse to go through what the quack doctors put me through ever again.

[jwirr]

16. I have absolutely no problem with end of life drugs I actually asked the

nurse to increase my fathers pain pills knowing exactly what it would result in.

But there is another side to this that none of you are listening to. Addiction in the dying is one thing - who cares. Or for that matter in proven chronic pain cases.

However addiction in the young is a totally different issue. I will start by telling you what is happening in areas all across the country and especially on Reservations. We have epidemic level addiction going on here. Young people are dying here.

And most of it is coming from legal drugs. No war against that until recently. How do they get these legal drugs? A lot of ways.

First you go to the ER and you tell the doc how bad you are hurting. He cannot prove that you do or do not. Until recently you got exactly what you wanted.

And then you go to your own doctor and make his/her life miserable until they finally give in and give you the drug. So now you have two sources.

But that is not the end. Your either ask for out of hospital treatment or you are forced into treatment by the courts. They use something like methadone so now you have another source. But this source is dangerous - it can and often does interact with other pain medicines and can cause death.

But by no means are these your only sources. You also have the illegal sources like stealing pills from someone or buy from a dealer.

We are losing our children to this epidemic. So now the doctors and the ERs have been put on notice that there can be no more of this. But there is still a problem. Treatment centers are forbidden from talking with the other doctors about what medications are being prescribed and methadone is not on the prescribed drugs testing list. The only way to find out what is happening is when the patient gets a reaction to a whole bunch of drugs prescribed by different doctors.

And this is just not an Indian problem. It is happening all over the USA with all races.

So I am lobbying to get it legal for doctors to talk to each other about addictions. For states to change the laws. This will help a lot in cutting down on availability.

This is why the DEA is in on this. To educate the doctors that they can often be the problem.

So I have no problem with using pain medications when it cannot possibly matter but I have a lot of problem with legal dealing.

[Humanist_Activist]

17. Where do chronic pain suffers fit into all of this?

You seem so intent on cutting availability that you seem to fail to take into account the fact that this should be treated as a medical issue, not a legal issue.

Those who are addicted and not in pain need treatment, not prohibition, which is proven to not work and pushes many addicts to less legal medications that can, potentially, be far more dangerous.

[jwirr]

19. Well my son in law went to a regular doctor who referred him to a

specialist and they determined the source of the pain (back injuries in the military) and he has never had problems getting medications since then. He actually has so many meds that they are in a case by his chair.

We in the family are trying to get him to ask for legal MJ. His doctor is in agreement but our state is not dealing with chronic pain and MJ yet. Also lobbying on that.

If he were to go to the ER he would get the same answer others get but being Native American he would understand. He can see what is going on with our young.

[LeftyMom]

45. Restricting opiates just shifts addicts to heroin.

It's dangerous and stupid even if you just look at what it does to addicts: it moves them to black markets and increases their exposures to contaminants and disease. The hell it puts the sick and the dying through makes it fucking inexcusable.

[jwirr]

48. We are also working on ending or slowing down the illegal sales as well

but what is the use if you are not working to stop both. Why would DEA think it is worth stopping illegal sources when doctors are giving them out to anyone who asks ? I do not know where you live but in my area doctors are the main source of opioids. And we have children dying from it.

I have one grandson in treatment right now and thankfully he is not trying to score from anyone. But when he broke his hip in 7 places we told the doctor about his addiction. The stupid doctor gave him the exact drug he was addicted to and then continued to give it to him for another 2 years.

Right at the moment one of the things we need is communication between doctors and treatment centers because the most common treatment there is methadone and it reacts with other pain medications in such a way that it becomes fatal. Yet the doctors in general practice and the treatment centers are forbidden by law from disclosing information to each other. This puts both the patient and the doctors in danger. I also indicated that I have no problem with end of life medications and what I am lobbying about has nothing to do with that. I am trying to make our treatment programs more effective.

Your last sentence is correct some doctors do not pay attention to patients with pain. The patient needs to find a doctor who does. As I noted above my SIL has had chronic pain since the 80s. He goes to regular doctors and pain specialists and has no trouble getting what he needs. Nor do I for my own back pain. BUT we do not go to the ER. We also do not shop around from doctor to doctor.

What the current laws are doing is making the treatment center useless and an actual part of the system to make opioids available to their clients. And at this point opioids are not even on the Prescription Drug Monitoring Program in many states. So what you are saying is that we should just keep spending money on a program that serves only one purpose - to make the pharmaceutical industry richer.

There are two things we are asking for: (1)To allow Medication-Assisted Treatment programs to communicate with doctors to avoid medical interaction problems as much as possible. (2) To include all dangerous drugs like opioids to be included on PDMPs.

That needs to be done to improve our treatment systems and to stop killing our children. I see nothing wrong with that. I do think ignoring the problem is very dangerous.

[LeftyMom]

78. Good lord, are you for real?

No, you can't get rid of the black market. China executed people and closed off their society and went to war and still couldn't get rid of opiate addiction. I really can't even imagine how somebody who means well and seems reasonably educated could think that's a possibility.

You know what does treat opiate addicts?

Opiates. Clean, supervised opiates in stable dosages. It turns out that if the receptors in their brains are being stimulated and they don't have to act from desperation to keep going (keep in mind that opiate detox is life threatening) they hold down jobs and go about their lives at least somewhat normally.

Do you know what the difference between addicts and non-habitual users is? It's the underlying desperation of their lives. It's trauma.

You're trying to stop hurting people from self-medicating and if you succeed you're going to make life worse for the physically ill and the dying, and you seem to think they're collateral damage. That's beyond fucked up.

[jwirr]

80. You are the one who is not for real. So according to you we just set

around waiting for all of them to get Hep C and die? That sounds like a really good R program. I think that was how they were going to solve the health care problem also.

I am lobbying for the 11 tribes in our state and to improve their treatment centers. No one damn thing we are asking for has anything to do with doctors except that the communication system between doctors and treatment centers.

The other items I am lobbying for is testing - we have no way of knowing what our clients are taking. Exactly how do you treat someone if you cannot even monitor the problem.

The other things I am working on is connecting our programs to people who are already in prison so that when they are finally released they are already in the program. So that they are not returned to prison for the same damned reason.

You just want to continue to look the other way and use the prison system to take care of the problem - or the morgue. These 11 tribes watch as their members die everyday. We are not going to stand by. We are actually involved with the people who are effected. They are our family.

What is fucked up is that you just want to continue to support the pharmaceutical industry that created this problem in the first place. And you just want to let them die rather than help the treatment centers do their job.

Well no doubt you will get your way. I will think about you every time I attend another young persons funeral which is often. My great grandson found some of his mother's pills laying around and almost died. He was in intensive care for a week. She is out of the picture but well on her way to dying. My grandson has Hep C and could die at any time. I live in a village where most of the kids are taking some form of drugs, mostly pain pills.

In the mean time you enjoy yourself.

[LeftyMom]

87. Wait, you think you know more than me about living with addicts?

Oh honey, that's adorable.

I'm not giving you the details because the addicts in my life and on my family tree are people deserving of privacy. I'm not going to use their suffering and their comorbid conditions to prop up my arguments. Suffice it to say I've been dealing with this my entire life.

[kcr]

46. Great. So people with chronic pain can just suffer.

I know you mean well but this approach does nothing but cause people who suffer from pain to either turn to illegal drugs or suffer needlessly. Unleashing the DEA on doctors only makes them fearful to ever prescribe these drugs to people who need them. It's cruel.

The answer is to stop treating addicts like criminals and treat addiction the right way in this country.

[jwirr]

49. Do you have a regular doctor? If s/he is any good s/he will send you to

a pain specialist. The medical profession has a means of dealing with pain that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

I am lobbying for many tribes and their treatment centers. We have been looking for ways to make our treatment centers work. At the moment the existing process does not work when the medical profession is working against the program at the same time we are trying to help our clients. In fact as long as doctors and treatment centers are not communicating we are doing absolutely anything except join the line of providers.

One of our big causes of death is the interaction of methadone and other proscription drugs prescribed by doctors.

So far I have been called stupid and cruel. But I am the one involved in this community. I am the one who sees this all around me. It is my grandchildren and great grandchildren I am trying to keep out of prison and away from drug addiction.

And as to stop treating addicts like criminals and treat addiction the right way - well I have been working with the problem of how we make that process work best for our clients.

From what those who are calling me stupid and cruel are asking is that we just let the addiction continue. Many addicts come to us for help. With the present system we cannot do that. Some changes need to be made.

[DeadLetterOffice]

53. "The medical profession has a means of dealing with pain "

They really don't. As a long term chronic pain person who cannot take opiates, I will tell you that the medical profession has NO DAMN IDEA what to do with chronic pain patients. We make them incredibly uncomfortable because they cannot fix us, and they have no good options for pain control that aren't addictive or cause wicked side effects.

[jwirr]

54. That is too bad. But as I am telling you I have nothing to do with the

medical profession. I am not working to find a way around that. My perspective is how to make the treatment centers work better. And if that includes a way to determine what opioids the client is using that will have to be our goal.

A lot of people are assuming that I am working against legal drug treatment for pain. Not true. I am looking at this from the point of view of treatment centers who are in dire need of some changes so that we can treat the addiction. Often in children

As I said we have several chronic pain issues in our family. I do not like all the drugs my SIL has to use but I do not object to that.

I wish someone would do a real test on how MJ works with chronic pain. My grandson jokes that it does not stop the pain - it just makes is so you no longer give a damn. Either way I want more attention paid to MJ.

[Go Vols]

74. Here,any doctor in the state

has access to a statewide database that tells them everything you are prescribed and by whom.

[jwirr]

76. But treatment centers are not included in that. That is the problem.

[hunter]

56. In practice the DEA becomes a price support agency for the larger drug gangsters...

... the amoral pharmaceutical companies, the money-laundering bankers, and assembly-line style medicine where medical professionals can''t be bothered to, are not alloted time to, or are actually discouraged from getting to know their patients.

High turnover rates of medical professionals in rougher communities is another big problem, just as it is for public school teachers in rough communities.

Punitive law enforcement and regulatory actions usually make these problems worse and escalate levels of violence, corruption, and damaging health consequences.

Most of all, let's be honest, in many communities both poor and affluent, life is empty and sucks. At the bottom of the economy you'll have kids sniffing gasoline and drinking DM cough medicine until they are incoherent and hallucinating, at the top of the economy you'll have very affluent trophy wives trading their prescription opiates obtained from high income politically well connected Dr. Feelgoods for greater quantities of heroin distributed by violent gangster networks that somehow always remain just beyond the reach of law-enforcement.

Fixing the problem is more complicated than controlling the flow of opiates. We have to build strong communities where life doesn't suck. Sadly, that always seems to increase some wealthy person's taxes or cuts into their "profits." Those are the people who own us.

[jwirr]

58. We on the reservation also understand who owe us. In our case things

have improved greatly since we control our own economy again with the casinos and the other jobs that we have been able to create with the profits.

What I am asking for should make things better not worse. I don't get it. DU screams about users in prisons. Yet try to improve the treatment programs and they are throwing a fit. First of all we have both our own clinic and treatment programs and our own police. So the criminal element does not play into our problems as much as in other places.

What we need right now is a way to communicate with the doctors both on the reservation and off. What good does a treatment center do if everyone else is working against them? Communication is vitally needed.

Second we need a way of testing to see if our client is taking other opioids besides methadone that will interact in a bad way often in a fatal way. I really do not understand why everyone is so against improving the programs.

[hunter]

62. Addiction is a major public health problem and ought to be treated as such.

Opiates, alcohol, amphetamines, tobacco...

Continuity of care is very important. Yep, there needs to be supervision by a single medical professional for anyone suffering a severe addiction.

But it ought to be easier for the addict to have a single source in some kind of mildly supervised and non-coercive environment, in no discomfort and making progress away from their addiction, in a way that removes any motivation to obtain the drug they are addicted to from multiple sources.

Sadly, our society does not treat addicts with any kind of compassion and largely regards addiction as a moral failure of the individual rather than a public health problem.

As a side effect of these attitudes many chronic pain patients suffer unnecessarily because they are denied effective medications that are very safe with mild side effects when used appropriately.

I had a prescription for Celebrex at one time. It was pushed as the miracle NSAID that didn't eat one's guts. But it eventually it did eat my guts, just like ibuprofen, it simply took a little longer to have that effect. Of course Pfizer knew that, but left the longer term studies on the shelf. That's the kind of problems chronic pain patients deal with.

My guts are a mess and I've now got Tinnitus.

My own chronic pain problems are fairly mild, perhaps a consequence of physical abuse I subjected myself to when young (running extreme distances, working in warehouses and moving furniture, falling off cliffs, jumping out of moving cars, bicycle accidents, etc., and maybe the steroids I was occasionally prescribed for severe asthma.) But this chronic pain does interfere with my sleep, making me crazier than I already am. But my own experience has made me despise NSAIDS, and acetaminophen which is poison and seems to be added to prescription hydrocodone and is sold over the counter, seemingly for the express purpose of killing opiate and alcohol addicts.

The "war on drugs" mentality has harmed many innocent people, including those unfortunate people whose personal biochemistry and social situation greatly increases the odds they will become addicted to some drug.

[jwirr]

64. Agreed.

[CTyankee]

21. I wish I could get hydracodone for my spinal arthritic pain but I can't so I take Extra STrenth

Tylenol for arthritis and I take Tizanidine (an anti spasmodic) at night. But every 12 weeks or so I can get injections of cortisone around my spine. I think of them as gel packs around the baseof the spine to ease the discomfort of sitting for long periods of time. I also do my strengthening and stretching exercises and I meditate. All of these get me through...

[Seeking Serenity]

60. I hate it that you a) can't get good RX pain meds, and

b) that you're having to do ESIs. I've got spinal stenosis with arthritis too, and I refuse to do ESIs. And any MD that recommends biannual ESIs long term is committing malpractice, IMO (full disclosure -- I'm not an MD, nor do I play one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night). With every stick comes new scar tissue. And having a whole bunch of scar tissue can make any later surgery (I pray we'll never need it) that much more difficult.

MDs authorize ESIs 1) to get out of having to prescribe, and 2) because they can charge insurance a hell of a lot more for a procedure (ESIs are considered procedures) than for writing a script.

And in response to all of the commented bemoaning the War on Drugs, I'm right with you. And I'll sadly note that it was the FDA under THIS administration that rescheduled hydrocodone as Schedule II from Schedule III, just making it that much harder for people who really need it to get it.

[madville]

23. That's one reason heroin use is up 150% since 2007

All the clamping down on prescription painkillers has turned a bunch of people onto heroin (new users in this surge are primarily white and/or female per the stats).

[Unknown Beatle]

24. Hydrocodone was moved from a Schedule III

to a Schedule II with American Public Health Association and pharmacy groups strongly opposing the move. Why did the DEA reschedule hydrocodone? My doctor told me that it was because of the potential for abuse. You mean like alcohol can be abused, or heroine can be abused?

Cocaine is schedule II while marijuana is schedule I. WTF? What is the DEA smoking?

Who's behind the DEA to make these godawful laws.

[Mariana]

26. 2200 people a year die of alcohol poisoning - i.e. overdose

in the US. Six people a day. And in addition to them there are all the alcoholics who don't die of overdose, but who nevertheless die too young from the damage done to their bodies and brains over time from excessive drinking.

Some people get high on painkillers, some people get addicted to them, that's a catastrophe, something must be done to stop it right now! But no one gives a fuck about all the death and destruction caused by alcohol and the easy access to it.

[jwirr]

50. No one gives cares about alcohol? Try living on a reservation. If we had

a chance in hell we would have that as one of the big drugs. But there are too many users of all races - there is no stopping that. Even the churches would scream. Plus as we learned many years ago - alcohol can easily be manufactured in your own bathtub without detection.

And since I am working on laws that will make treatment centers better none of what you are saying is anything I disagree with. Our treatment centers also work with alcoholics but that is a really hard problem since like doctor related addictions - it is legal. They can and do walk right out the door of the treatment center to the bar. Thank goodness that all of them do not do that.

For a site that claims to want to use treatment instead of prisons to treat addictions there are certainly a lot of you who do not want the treatment centers to ask for laws that make their job workable.

[Mariana]

55. I want treatment to be available for all addicts.

I do not want them forced into treatment by the courts and I don't think they should be treated as criminals.

I also want the addicts who are not yet ready to give up their drug of choice to have access to clean drugs in standard dosages. That would reduce the risk of overdose (the risk can never be eliminated) and also lessen the damage associated with addiction to illegal drugs such as infection and contamination of street drugs with poisons.

[jwirr]

57. In my state addicts have a court hearing to determine placement. It is

like the ones that people with mental illness can have so that they are not railroaded into treatment centers by some angry member of their family like they used to be. It is actually a hearing to protect the person being place from having no control over the situation.

I have often sat at the defendants side as s/he listens to the reasons that s/he needs or does not need treatment. Most of the time the defendant realizes that s/he needs help. It is very much like a confrontation with the judge signing off on the hearing.

Years ago the courts used to use treatment as a punishment. I remember lobbying for that to stop as treatment seldom works if it is forced. We have changed that in our state.

[Mariana]

59. I'm glad you are doing the work that you do.

My stance about addicts having access to clean, standardized drugs is because of what happened to so many drinkers during Prohibition. The same thing is happening to illegal drug users today.

There are several active alcoholics in my family, and their addiction wreaks some havoc in their own lives and in lives of the people that love them, that's a fact. However, none of them have been blinded or killed by drinking booze contaminated with methanol. None of them have died of overdose (or have gone into a potentially deadly withdrawal) because they had no idea of the potency of the particular product they were consuming. The addiction is bad, but I think those things are worse.

I believe more illegal drug addicts would voluntarily seek help if they didn't have to worry about the fact that they are considered criminals. As it is, they know they may be prosecuted, lose their jobs, be socially ostracized, etc. if the "wrong people" find out about their condition.

[jwirr]

63. Yeah, our country has had a really wrong attitude regarding addiction of

any kind for a long time. After WWII it was pretty much overlooked because the returning heroes had gotten addicted with the free booze and cigs given to the vets then. But then we entered the 90s and it became a crime to have an addiction and has been ever since. I am totally against that idea.

I am not even against doctors dispensing pain medication to those they are fairly sure have pain. Out here on the rez we see the things you are talking about with alcoholism. Many of the funerals we attend are due to death from alcohol use but today for us it is getting to the same with other drugs. Our of course is a generational problem. Children out here end up addicted very young. Some as young as 5. Babies end up with addictions passed on down from their mothers.

In one way the use of methadone in treatment centers was a way of getting a clean drug to the user until they could stop totally. But because of the problems I have talked about in other posts here it is not working out that way. It is in itself being used as one of the many way of making legal scores. In order to prevent this we need to be able to communicate with the doctors so we are not both giving them more drugs. Especially because some of the drugs interact to cause death.

To make the treatment program work we need to know if our clients are using and that is where the drug testing comes in. It is one of the things that allows us to see if it is working for the client.

I have also been lucky with the alcoholics in my family. One is a binge drinker and stays sober most of the time. And one of the drug users has Hep C. Many of my friends are now gone due to alcohol. Not so lucky there.

[Sgent]

29. Cocaine

is used in certain eye and nose surgeries as a specialized type of anesthetic -- there's nothing than can replace it. If a doctor started writing scripts for it they would hear from the DEA very quickly and lose their license.

[mpgalloway]

25. My Wife Takes All the Drugs You Can Get!

About 4 years ago we were told by specialists that my wife had less than 2 months to live because of 4th Stage COPD cancer. She entered the Hospice system then.

For the last 4 years everyday she gets pure pharmaceutical morphine, Xanax, fioricet, methadone, and whatever else she desires.
She watches cops on TV between her smoking breaks and I make sure she doesn't burn the house down with her oxygen tubes.

The doctors and nurses come to our house to bring the drugs and certify that she is still dying in order to stay in the Hospice system with medicare.

Sometimes she gets on the Internet and orders more drugs from websites that don't need a prescription. The mailman takes cash money orders. Thousands of companies selling anything you want, many are counterfeit drugs. My wife can tell when she gets the pain relief rush if it's the real deal or not.

My wife is now a drug addict and I am her caretaker making sure during our 5th year of hospice, that she stays high as a kite while I wait for her patiently to ring the bell and bring her more free morphine. At least 5 times a day.

I guess when the bell stops ringing I better check as she might me dead?

Moral, don't believe a fucking word the doctors tell you about when you are going to die!

[drmeow]

27. I agree on the first point, have some mixed response on the second

For clarification - for 6 years I managed a pain research lab which studied, among other things, non-drug treatments for chronic pain and I'm currently volunteering with the pain management group at the local VA. I also did my dissertation on adult children of alcoholics so I know a little about the addition literature.

For terminal patient - yes, give them what they need. In the UK hospice gives a pain killer cocktail which includes heroin - because heroin allows you be alert while also alleviating pain. But in the US they can't give that cocktail (at least, they didn't used to be able to) because of heroin's status as a controlled substance. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID.

For chronic pain patients - it is not so much the addiction aspect which is the biggest problem but the accidental overdose problem. In addition, habituation is a problem with long-term opiate use which, in turn, increases the accidental overdose risk. There are also side effects of opioids other than addiction which can be problematic.

Pain is not just biological in nature. It is a complex psychosocial phenomenon. Many people who suffer from chronic pain believe that opioids are the only why to manage their pain and will often demand opioids and resist tapering off opioid use. However, research is increasingly showing that non-drug treatments for pain can really help with level of pain, functionality, and coping with pain and can even be more effective than opioids. The solution, of course, is to allow pain treatment experts to tailor the treatment program to the patient keeping all options (including opioids) on the table. But we also have to be careful about our cultural belief structure which leads us to believe that opiates are always the best and usually the only option when they really aren't.

Many (most) people come to chronic pain through acute pain, and by the time they get into treatment for chronic pain they are already addicted. Because the most effective treatment may not be opiate use, coming into treatment already reliant on and potentially addicted to opioids can be a significant problem, especially if that opioid use ends up actually interfering with a more effective treatment program.

[smirkymonkey]

41. That's very interesting. I would like to hear more about it.

I happen to be allergic to opiates, so if I ever do need pain management I would like to hear about alternatives.

[drmeow]

43. The readers digest condensed version

Mindfulness meditation, cognitive behavioral therapy, anti-inflammatory diet, and certain types of movement (e.g. Tai Chi, Yoga, Physical Therapy) have been shown to both individually and together improve quality of life for patients with chronic pain disorders. Our team at the VA includes the following disciplines: acupuncture, medicine, nursing, nutrition, pharmacy, physical therapy, psychiatry, psychology, and rehab. Should you ever need treatment for chronic pain, your best bet is to find an interdisciplinary pain treatment center and work with them to develop a treatment plan which is unique for you as the combination which works best varies among patients. In particular, a pain rehab center is likely to have the best service (look for one which is accredited by CARF). Sometimes it is not necessarily possible to eliminate all pain (which is also true of opiates, too) but these treatments can have dramatic effects on reducing pain, coping with pain, and going on with one's life despite pain.

[smirkymonkey]

44. Thank you!

I appreciate your thoughtful response. Very helpful!

[drmeow]

65. Here's hoping you never need

the information I provided

[jwirr]

51. Thank you. Important information. In the treatment centers that use

methadone to assist ending addiction the problem is that interaction with other pain drugs - often prescribed by doctors - is deadly. Methadone from treatment centers can also become just one in a line of legal sources for opioids because it is not on the PMDP testing list.

If we are going to use treatment instead of prisons (which are not working at all) we need to get the treatment center the tools it needs.

[drmeow]

68. Another thing with methadone

maintenance which can be deadly is that methadone doesn't provide the same sensation/high as heroin and people go back to heroin but their tolerance is down. They take the same dose that worked for them before but it kills them.

I don't know about all opiates (I can see it as being the case) but at least as far as heroin is concerned, pure medical grade heroin is one of the cleanest drugs mind altering drugs you can put in your body (in that it does the least organ damage). The biggest systemic problems with heroin are that most street heroin isn't very clean/pure and a lot of the stuff in it does organ damage and after you've been on it for a while your body stops producing natural endorphins.

[jwirr]

69. Thank you. My grandson has Hep C and that is one reason his is really

trying to stay with the program.

He has four children and a wife and he wants to live. His ex and mother of two of the children (she got one child taken away from her and sold another) is in much worse condition because she is one of the people who was addicted as a very young girl. She is also one of the ones who is scoring at every place legal or illegal she can find. I doubt she has much longer to live.

[drmeow]

70. Make sure your grandson

knows about the overdose risk - it will be hard without making it sound like you expect him to fail the program (a good program they will make sure he knows it). I don't know about how various programs run but my personal belief (based on what I know about psychology) is that staying with the program will be easier if he has two things - 1) opportunities to experience "highs" (joy, excitement, fun, etc) without the heroin (having a wife and kids can certainly provide some of that, laughter - regular really good intense belly laughs - I personally think is important. For some people exercise, for me it would be dance. Stuff like that.) and 2) skills to reframe both negatives into less serious things and minor positives into bigger positives. A significant part of emotions are interpretations and they can spiral up or spiral down. Preventing the downward spiral through reinterpretation of negatives is, IMO, critical to successful addiction treatment.

[jwirr]

73. Thank you. I will talk with him. He just married his new wife and I was

delighted to see his counselor at treatment preform the wedding. Our family is so thank full for his new wife. She has been reprograming him since the day she met him. Keeping happiness front and center in their lives. I love the way you put it - reinterpretation of negatives.

Instead of getting high they go camping with their children and catch fish. Instead old friends who are still using they spend time and have fun with family.

This is what I hope can happen for anyone who wants help staying straight.

[drmeow]

85. See if he's had overdose training

and has a Naloxone script. Naloxone is basically an opiate antidote. The training teaches you how to recognize an overdose and you get a script for Naloxone so you have some on hand (kind of like an epi pen for people with severe allergies) in case you accidentally overdose. I don't think the overdose needs to be due to falling off the wagon or even taking another opiate - just something where neutralizing the opiate will make a difference.

[jwirr]

86. Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. I think one of the problems facing

the treatment programs is cost. I over heard him talking to my daughter about a medication that works better than methadone (actually two medications - one can be abused just like methadone) but the good one costs $1000 a pill.

There is a lot of things we need to improve if we want these programs to start working. Especially if we are going to finally quit sending everyone to prisons.

[Dont call me Shirley]

28. Cancer does fucking suck, Humanist! Medical Marijuana is also very effective as a pain reliever.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. It's residual puritanism in the American psyche.

Yes, heaven forfend someone terminally ill might die "addicted", because Jesus hates dealing with people who are high, at the gates of heaven.

I'm just glad I live in a relatively sane corner of the country, vis a vis these matters.

[jwirr]

52. When my father was dying of cancer I was the one who asked the doctor

and nurse to increase his dosage knowing full well that it would hasten his death. They just asked me "Do you know what you are doing?" Yes I did.

That is why I do not disagree with anyone who is talking about end of live drugs. Absolutely needed.

[Lyric]

31. Anyone who uses opioids without a prescription is labeled an abuser.

Even if they are taking the medicine because they're trying to self-treat terrible pain that the medical establishment won't do anything about, they are still lumped in with the people who take them recreationally. People like my Mom, who suffered debilitating post-chemotherapy neuralgia and spinal nerve root neuralgia, people who have tried NSAIDs, Lyrica, Neurontin, people who've been subjected to endless bouts of "physical therapy", the code words that doctors use to shove pain patients out the door without actually HELPING them.

My Mom was forced to buy pain medication from the "black market" for YEARS. That was after years of jumping through hoops and suffering agonizing pain every day. She had seemingly-uncontrollable high blood pressure and heart disease (four heart attacks, three stents, and a bypass). We suspected that her constant pain was largely responsible for being unable to control her blood pressure. Did anyone care? Nope. Miraculously, once she started buying pain medication and actually treating her pain, her blood pressure was suddenly back to normal again. What an amazing coincidence!

Yeah, sure--lots of people in America "abuse" painkillers. But how many of those "abusers" out there buying pills are people like my Mom? People who aren't junkies. People who don't care about "getting high". People who just want their pain to go away, but who can't find a doctor willing to prescribe those lifesaving opioids once all other options have been tried and failed. There are so many people out there who are labeled "abusers" simply because they have been forced to buy painkillers off the street by paranoid doctors and a "war on drugs" that has left them bereft of legal alternatives.

Mom died in 2013. Thank god Hospice took care of treating her pain, because until they took over her palliative care, her pain was STILL being ignored by her physicians.

Two weeks ago I saw a neurologist who took one look at my lumbar spine MRI and asked me how on earth I'd been living with pain like that. I told him the truth--I haven't. I've been living my life confined to bed, because my pain was unbearable and I am no longer allowed to have NSAIDs. Too much ibuprofen tore my stomach to shreds. But what else was I supposed to do? Like my Mom, I have severe spinal nerve root inpingement with neuralgia, spinal stenosis, and herniated discs, plus peripheral diabetic neuralgia. Like my Mom, I've done physical therapy endless times, Lyrica, Neurontin, cortisone injections, TENS units, and I ate NSAIDs like candy for YEARS to try and stay at least partially mobile. And when all of that failed, I was told by my orthopedic spine doctor that nobody treats chronic pain with painkillers anymore. Sorry. Have some more physical therapy. :eyeroll:

Well, the new neurologist has put me on 10mg oxycodone, four times a day. Today I cleaned my bedroom and cooked dinner. Yesterday I was able to sit outside and watch the Perseid meteor shower with my beloved. I'm going grocery shopping tomorrow, and then I'm going to work on my rose bushes, which have all overgrown like mad since I've been housebound for so long. I am starting to LIVE again. Until you've had your life taken away from you by pain, you can't understand the hopelessness and despair that pervade every moment of your existence. You have no time to focus on anything except the pain. Does this position make it worse or better? This mattress pad? Can I get away with a topical NSAID gel? Should I save my last hydrocodone for my son's middle school graduation or for his high school orientation? I can have one, but not both. Can I make it to the toilet by myself today, or does Ben need to come home from work every few hours to take me to the bathroom? It is HELL. And with this medication, that hell has gone away. The pain is still there, in the background, but I can handle it. It's a four, not a nine.

I saw my psychiatrist for a med check a few days ago and upon realizing that I'd been prescribed an opioid, he grabbed a higher-ranking colleague, at which point they started team-harassing me about how opioids for chronic pain are a terrible idea, and have I tried Lyrica, or maybe physical therapy?

I seriously almost lost it at that point. These people are beyond reason or help. Good effing grief. I got my refills for my Lexapro and got the hell out of there.

And for the record, it turns out that I don't HAVE "chronic pain". My neurologist says that I have "intractable" pain. Chronic pain comes and goes; intractable pain never goes away. So yes, opioid therapy is PRECISELY what I should be receiving. I should have received it years ago, when all the other treatments failed. Our system is so screwed up that new doctors are unable to distinguish between chronic pain and intractable pain--or they're too frightened of the DEA to do anything about it, even when they know that they should. My blood pressure was 190/120 before my pain treatment started, and that was AFTER taking my nitrate, my ACE inhibitor, and my beta blocker. I had a heart attack a year ago. I wonder how much of that was due to YEARS of constant, untreated pain? How much of my Mom's heart disease came from the same thing? I wonder what role the years and years of elevated blood pressure and the constant high levels of pain-induced cortisol might play in heart disease?

Anyway...sorry for the rant. I'm still pretty emotional over this. If I hadn't found this new neurologist outside the university's health system, I might have been dead by next year. Untreated pain KILLS people. I'm tired of pain patients being considered acceptable collateral damage in the War on Drugs. Here's one last thought. How many of these heroin overdoses have happened because a pain patient couldn't access legal pain treatment and naively tried heroin as a cheap, last-ditch desperate alternative to painkillers? I know of several, myself. But in the news, they're just called abusers who overdosed. Nobody realizes that people are killing themselves trying to treat pain...like women used to kill themselves trying to end unwanted pregnancies. All due to a lack of access to proper medical care that society doesn't like.

[CountAllVotes]

35. Amen!!

Last edited Sun Aug 16, 2015, 02:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Wow, you have a lot to add to this discussion and I can sure relate to where you are at!

This War on Sick People must end! The War on Doctors treating patients must end as well!

I'm really sad to read your post as I know exactly what you are going through and as for the NSAIDs, yep, they bore a hole right through my large intestine, I developed peritonitis and damn near died. I woke up in the hospital cursing and demanding a priest come to me and give me my last rites. I was really hoping I'd die being I was in the ICU for days on end.

It was a hell and why I lived through it I'll never know. That said, I am still here and as of yesterday I managed to find TWO neurologists that want me, TWO! I told them I had maybe 10 years left to live and that it is my wish not to die in PAIN.

That sort of shut them up I'd say. Sad fucking world the day we let sick people suffer.

Today I awaken to fierce pain in both legs. Step Two: Pop a Tylenol #4 and hope to God that I can find a caring doctor!

Hang-in there and again, thanks for sharing your horrid struggle w/us here on the DU!!

CountAllVotes

[Lyric]

37. Very few things get my dander up more than this.

I tend to go into rant mode, I know. Years of suffering, and watching other people either suffer or expose themselves to the shady black market dealers, has left me bitter.



You hang in there too.

[hunter]

38. That's very polite for a rant.

Sometimes I want to make drug warriors bleed just as ^%#$$#%&*%^ NSAIDs have made me bleed at times.

[smirkymonkey]

42. +1000

It's beyond ridiculous. People kill themselves over un-managed pain. In more ways than just directly. There has to be a better way.

[Pakhet]

47. You hit the nail on the head.

My sister says that we aren't addicted to the painkillers but to not being in pain, and I agree. I sometimes wonder what it would be like NOT to hurt. Things are a lot better since I got my MMJ license 3 years ago. My son says that after looking at my pictures, my bp and weight (all of which have improved drastically) that MMJ saved my life, and I'm not sure he's not right. What I do know, is that instead of 2 or 3 tylenol 3, 8 excedrine and 6 advil a day (this was normal for me for years) I now rely on CBDs and edibles for bedtime and I took maybe 6 excedrine all last year.

[Seeking Serenity]

61. This ^^

[Marrah_G]

81. Have you ever tried Nuerotin for the nerve pain?

I have peripheral nueropathy in all four extremities. Nuerotin makes the constant pain and discomfort bearable most days.

[Lyric]

83. I did, actually.

However it didn't help me enough to be worth the awful side effects. It helps my sister, though, with her carpal tunnel pain.

[lostnfound]

32. Close friend in constant severe pain for 12+ years due to mesh, inoperable

Doctors say that an operation would be life threatening.p / very risky.
Laws for painkillers have made her feel like a criminal, and if she travels, the timing of her thirty day allotment is a constraint on her travel schedule.

[sorefeet]

34. First do no harm nor injustice

every doctor will realize with their first corporate job that the oath is bullshit. They learn early that the DEA owns them. With a bucket full of dept their first priority is the pay check.

They will feed you high blood pressure pills, knowing that pain is the reason for it. I learned that on my own, as everything else about pain I had to learn myself.

I had a plan to amputate my feet if something didn't change real soon. I knew that suicidal thoughts every waking moment wasn't natural but I could not stop them. Their was no where else to turn except something real drastic to prove I wasn't lying. It is degrading and humiliating to be in severe pain in the first place because your life comes to a halt. Chickenshit doctors cost me my career and half of a pension because the DEA and their corporate policies which they will not question, scare them. I am bitter because of what has happened to me, but the dirty muther fuckers will never hurt me again. If I have to get on heroin or grow my own poppies, I know now what I need to keep me sane, livable pain and alive.

[aikoaiko]

36. Pain killers are medicine for people in pain. Its really that simple.

[Omaha Steve]

66. I used to take police reports for stolen pain killers a lot

Having a party? Lock them up. Kids in the house? Lock them up. Everything else? Lock them up.

OS

[Glimmer of Hope]

67. I have cancer and I am recovering from major surgery. Oxy greatly improves the quality of my life.

The only high I get is from being pain free.

[Lyric]

84. +1000

[cally]

71. Addiction is a horrible disease

Many never recover even with rehab. After rehab, most wiil require group support for rest of their lives. I do think dying patients should get whatever pain management they need. I do wonder if someone in AA and NA asked for fewer pain meds and were no longer able to ask for what they needed.

Newer studies are questioning the effectiveness of prescription pain pills for chronic pain. Some of the pain management programs are more effective for many patients with less side effects

[KamaAina]

72. Add race to the equation and... BOOM!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027073953

[KentuckyWoman]

75. Amen Amen and Amen

Kicked and rec'd

[dilby]

79. If you are dying you should be able to do any drug you want.

And I am serious, if you are terminal and there is no hope I say smoke weed, smoke crack, do cocaine, do meth, do mushrooms, do heroin and all the opiates you can get your hands on. I know I am, figure I am going to die might as well see what all the fuss was about on these drugs I never did when I was healthy. Heck I am going to take up smoking expensive cigars and drinking the finest whiskey too. My bucket list is going to include all the stuff I didn't do because I wanted a long and healthy life. And you no what all that crap will probably be cheaper than what the docs will give me for pain management and probably help me to die with dignity.

[TheSarcastinator]

82. You are half right

You should be able to take any drug you want. Period.

We are all terminal cases.