John McEnroe says he could beat Serena Williams

[malaise]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/21/john-mcenroe-says-he-could-beat-serena-williams
<snip>

Tennis veteran John McEnroe has boasted that he could still beat women’s world number one Serena Williams, even as she moves in on a calendar grand slam, a feat not seen in the women’s game in 17 years. McEnroe, now 56, and with more than two decades behind him since winning his last grand slam, made the claim on US chatshow Jimmy Kimmel live, adding he would be banned from locker rooms if he lost to “God forbid, a woman”.

During the interview with Kimmel, McEnroe said he believed Williams, who has 68 titles to her name, was the greatest female player of all time. But when Kimmel asked if he thought he could beat her now, McEnroe replied: “My daughters are over there. I think it’s mixed, they think I’d probably lose to Serena. I believe that I could still take her.”

“Serena, she’s got a lot to lose by losing to an old fart like myself,” he said. “And I’ve got a lot to lose, because if I lose to, God forbid, a woman, then I’m not allowed in any men’s locker room for the next 15 years, or possibly the end of my life. So that’s part of why it’s intriguing.”

---------------------
Where's Bobby Riggs these days

[teamster633]

1. "Where's Bobby Riggs these days "

My first thought, too. Showing our age, aren't we?

[malaise]

3. LOLI watched that match live on TV in New York

We were singing Helen Reddy "I am Woman" at the end howling with laughter - Billy-Jean changed everything for women's tennis.


Damn we're old

[sufrommich]

5. So did I,it was a blast. nt

[MuseRider]

9. She really did change it

and I will always love her for it.

I have her autograph along with Martina Navratilova's on a tee shirt.

I LOVE Billie Jean and that was one heck of a match to watch.

I'm old too!

[malaise]

10. Seriously those were the best of times

Never thought we'd be where we are today in terms of women's rights, civil rights or attitudes to race and class.

Lucky you for the autographs.

[MuseRider]

27. It was an Elton John AIDS fundraiser

with big names in Kansas City. I drove up to see it with a neighbor and my kids. It was lots of fun, got to see Elton play Agassi and other big names of the time.

Billie Jean and Martina were the only two who came out to do autographs that we saw. It was a really fun night.

[cwydro]

46. She autographed my light blue wooden Wilson racquet cover

way back when she played at our tennis club in NC.

No idea what happened to that. I loved that racquet.

[MuseRider]

53. You still have the cover right?

That would be a tough loss, that autograph. I do not normally collect autographs I just rely on the fact that I remember great encounters but that is what they were doing so I got them.

By the time I started playing tennis (in my 40's) we were past the wooden racquets . I have not played in a long time, wish I had kept it up. I was never any good but I had fun.

[cwydro]

54. Nope, I sure don't.

I think it vanished when my parents moved out of my childhood home.

I was never one for autographs either, but I had hers, Gloria Steinem's, and Kate Millet's lol.

I've got none of them anymore.

During that same time period, I did get to drive Martina Navratilova to the Charlotte airport. In my Vega no less! She wasn't famous yet, and club members drove the unknowns around. I begged my mom to let me drive her. Poor Martina.

[MuseRider]

59. Too bad about the autographs

but a great story about driving Martina! Vegas, I remember those!

[Oilwellian]

62. I play golf with a few ex tennis players

who retired from the sport at 40. LOL They're suffering from serious knee and shin problems so maybe it's a good think you gave it up.

[MuseRider]

63. Well,

as crappy as I was I was never a competitive player. I doubt I could have hurt more than my shoulder maybe trying to get my serves in. LOL. I was pretty good on the line so maybe my knees would have taken the brunt of it but really, I was terrible. It was just a lot of fun, especially the drinks after...we had a great time.

[tabasco]

44. There have never been two classier tennis players

than Billie Jean and Martina.

[AngryAmish]

14. You realize Riggs worked that match?

He made a lot of money that night.

As far as anyone knows, King thought it was a shoot.

[PoliticAverse]

33. Riggs was a brilliant hustler for sure. n/t

[CatWoman]

26. *snort*

priceless

[malaise]

71. It's true

[sufrommich]

4. Mine too. Riggs needed the money,maybe

McEnroe does too.

[malaise]

7. Thread winner

Money is too good to refuse but Serena isn't hungry

[sufrommich]

11. Back in the bad old days,during the King/Riggs duel

there was still enough sexist dogma that people believed an old washed up male tennis player could beat a young female tennis star.I don't think anyone buys that anymore.I'm sure Serena will get a giggle out of it though,before she brushes off his nonsense attempt at relevancy.

[PoliticAverse]

32. Before the King match, Riggs defeated the then top woman player Margaret Court .

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_%28tennis%29

[sufrommich]

35. And then he lost to Billy Jean King.

Here's a good article on the Riggs/Court match :

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/sports/tennis/tenniss-other-battle-of-the-sexes-before-kingriggs.html

[geek tragedy]

39. Have you seen his toe fungus ads? nt

[brush]

48. McEnroe doesn't need the money but he'll take it if a match ever materializes

I think that's what he's up to.

I'm not sure if he really thinks he can win as Serena's serve is probably faster than his at this point — she's been clocked as fast as 129 mph.

With improved racket technology McEnroe should improve upon his average speed in the '80s of 110 mph during his serve and volley prime.

In this age of power tennis serve and volley players don't fare too well so I think Serena would beat him.

He's always praised Serena's game in his role as a tennis analyst. He's even been quoted as calling her the greatest woman player of all time so I think he's trying to set up another Billie Jean King vs Bobby Riggs match.

And remember, Billie Jean won that match.

[1939]

51. The old tennis hustler

Riggs made a small fortune off of that bit of hustle. Maybe McEnroe wants another big payday.

[Crunchy Frog]

61. One of my earliest "current event" memories.

I'd love to see McEnroe get his ass whupped.

[BainsBane]

2. Are they taking bets on that?

How ridiculous.

[Codeine]

6. I grew up as a big fan of McEnroe,

but Serena would destroy him.

[Logical]

17. What do you base that on? Have you seen him play in the last year? nt

[Mosby]

40. Serena would clean his clock

Last edited Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Men have an advantage over women in tennis because of service speed. McEnroe probably manages 80-100 mph serves now which is not enough to dominate a top women player, serena averages 108 mph. So the ground game would be the determining factor and Serena would just destroy him, 6-0, 6-0.

Eta he claims that he serves faster than in his prime but he would have to serve 110+ to hold serve against Serena.

[City Lights]

60. I've seen him play recently.

Not within the last year, but within the last few years. He plays on the Champions tour and sometimes in the WTT league. I just don't see him beating Serena at this point.

[Nye Bevan]

8. Bring it on. I would watch.

Do it for charity, it would raise a lot of money.

[Logical]

12. He probably could. Men and women are different. The 200th ranked man in tennis would beat Serena....

that takes nothing away from her. She is the best woman tennis player ever.

[sufrommich]

15. lol.....

[Logical]

19. Hope it happens. nt

[woolldog]

67. how about yes?

It's already happened.

"During the 1998 Australian Open, sisters Serena and Venus Williams boasted that they could beat any man ranked outside the world's top 200. The challenge was accepted by Karsten Braasch, a German player ranked No 203 (his highest ranking was No 38). Before the matches, Braasch played a round of golf in the morning, drank a couple of beers, smoked a few cigarettes, and then played the Williams sisters for a set each, one after the other. He defeated Serena, 6-1, and Venus, 6-2. Serena said afterwards "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women's tour and he got to them easily."

[Drahthaardogs]

107. And the man who beat her claimed any man ranked 500 or above would beat her

Is that just rubbing salt in the wound or was that really how he saw it?

[malaise]

18. That's not

LOGICAL

[Logical]

20. I really hope it happens. Would be fun to watch. nt

[dhill926]

37. agree....

[StevieM]

43. Yeah, but at McEnroe's age it might not be so easy anymore. I do think it would be a good match.

As for Serena being the best ever....she might be. But a reasonable case could be made for Stephie Graph, Martina Navratolova, Chris Evert and Margaret Court Smith.

I think that the problem with picking Williams or Graph for the top spot is that they didn't have a top rival the way that Navratolova and Evert had each other. Of course, Graph did have Monica Seles, but then she got stabbed.

And for those who didn't know--Margaret Court Smith is an absolutely terrible human being.

[hifiguy]

83. I think Martina and Chrissie played each other in the semis or

the finals of every Grand Slam for about ten years.

Loved watching them play - the contrast in their styles made very interesting viewing.

[cwydro]

47. Oh, I doubt that very much. nt

[brush]

50. You can't be serious! (with homage to McEnroe)

McEnroe is not ranked in the top 200 players.

She's at the top of her game and he's a recreational player approaching 60 years-old for God's sake.

His serve speed is under 100 mph. She's been clocked at 129 mph.

She'd beat him just as Billie Jean King beat geezer/tennis hustler Bobby Riggs back in the day.

[Logical]

86. Hope it happens. nt

[City Lights]

56. The player currently ranked 200 is Uladzimir Ignatik. Have you seen him play?

I follow tennis closely and have not seen him play, but I highly doubt he would beat Serena.

[geek tragedy]

69. .

http://observer.theguardian.com/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

[woolldog]

70. You obviously don't follow tennis that closely.

"During the 1998 Australian Open, sisters Serena and Venus Williams boasted that they could beat any man ranked outside the world's top 200. The challenge was accepted by Karsten Braasch, a German player ranked No 203 (his highest ranking was No 38). Before the matches, Braasch played a round of golf in the morning, drank a couple of beers, smoked a few cigarettes, and then played the Williams sisters for a set each, one after the other. He defeated Serena, 6-1, and Venus, 6-2. Serena said afterwards "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women's tour and he got to them easily."

[MillennialDem]

74. I don't follow tennis, but another poster pointed out the williams sisters were 17 at the time. Math

confirms this.

[woolldog]

76. And?

They won the french open and us open the next year. They were dominating women's tennis at the time as they are now. they still cannot beat any of the mens top 500.

The dismissive responses to Logical's post are obviously misplaced.

[MillennialDem]

79. I stand corrected on their accomplishments at 17 - obvious point though is they are likely

stronger and faster now though.

Not saying they could beat any of the top ranked men one way or the other. Like I said I don't follow tennis.

[woolldog]

80. Fair enough.

but Logical's post suggesting that they would lose to the 200th ranked man didn't deserve the scorn that was heaped upon it. He's almost certainly correct. And the little evidence we have strongly suggests he's correct.

Losing to a 56 year old ex tennis player like McEnroe is a different story. Like I said elsewhere, I think McEnroe would win but I wouldnt be surprised if he lost. It's a toss up, imo.

[MillennialDem]

81. I think if it would be more interesting if they played 10 or 20 matches and see if the sisters

win 1 or more matches against a current player or win half or more against McEnroe

[brush]

100. But McEnroe is not even close to any of the top ranked men

I can't get why all these posters keep talking about she can't beat any of the men in top 200 players.

Well McEnroe is not even close to being in the top 500 and is pushing 60 for God's sake.

Reflexes and reaction time slow down quickly after 40. He's almost 60 and she's in her prime.

His serve speed now is under 100 mph.

She's been clocked at 129 mph.

You do the math.

[woolldog]

111. "McEnroe is not even close to being in the top 500"

And neither is Serena.

As I said, tossup.

[fishwax]

88. They weren't remotely dominating women's tennis at the time--neither had ever won a tournament

As to Logical's point, I think it is likely true that Serena would struggle against the 200th ranked player in the world.

I think it would be more competitive than the set against Braach. I think the Serena that played back then wouldn't stand much of a chance against Serena today.

[woolldog]

90. they were taking the tennis world by storm at that time

In 97 beating #4 Monica Seles and #7 Mary Pierce. In 1998 beating #3 Lindsey Davenport. She reached 6 quarterfinals that year, and began winning grand slams the next. She won tournaments in 1998 (not grand slams) but doubles with her sister.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_Williams#1995.E2.80.9398:_Professional_debut

[fishwax]

91. they were sensations, and everyone expected great things, but they weren't dominating by any stretch

Yeah, they took the tennis world by storm. People had known Venus was coming up for years. I remember reading a profile of her in Parade magazine when she must have been about twelve or thirteen years old, before she'd ever played a professional match.

Yes, Serena had a few wins against top ten players, and Venus (who had two years of age and experience on her) had broken through to a few semis) and was ranked near the top ten. But while everyone had high hopes for them, they weren't yet winning tournaments, let alone dominating.

I also remember the first WTA tournament Venus won, which was the month after the set against Braach. It was the Oklahoma City IGA Open, which was not exactly a top tier tournament, but I lived in Oklahoma at the time and was able to watch the finals on TV. She and Serena also won the doubles title.

Serena didn't win a singles title in all of 1998. I don't think she even reached the finals of any tournament. That's not all that surprising--it was her first full year on tour, after all. Even then people expected that she would wind up being better than Venus in the long run, but she wasn't there yet.

[brush]

99. McEnroe is not even in the top 500 players

He's pushing 60 for God's sake.

Once you hit 40 your reflexes and reaction time goes.

You obviously haven't got there yet to find that out.

[LanternWaste]

112. Rather more accurately...

"The dismissive responses to Logical's post are obviously misplaced....

Rather more accurately, "The dismissive responses to Logical's allegations which lack any objective evidence are obviously misplaced..."

No doubt though, people get frustrated when their allegations are dismissed merely as allegations.

[Logical]

84. You are clueless about professional tennis. nt

[City Lights]

85. Thank you. nt

[MillennialDem]

73. "Men and women are different" only when you're talking about average vs average or

elite vs elite.

There are plenty of women that are stronger, faster, and/or fitter than the average dude. Just the average woman isn't. And the fastest, strongest, or fittest woman almost certainly isn't as fast, strong, or fit as her male counterpart (though this is mathematically possible. It may have happened in human history at some point).

Also, most sports rely much more on skill than general athletic ability. I'm probably a hell of a lot stronger and definitely faster than a living tennis great who was born in the 1930s or 1920s, but I'm sure he or she would murder me. Because I don't play tennis.

[tavernier]

13. Maybe a charity match has already been

put together, but they have to ramp up maximum viewership by early trash talk, lol.

🎾 🙉🙊

[malaise]

16. Apparently Trump had tried to organize such a match

but it flopped - thankfully

[Logical]

23. Serena has nothing to gain from it. nt

[gollygee]

21. ROFL

I would enjoy watching that match.

[Logical]

22. Chris Evert and her brother....

When female player Chris Evert-Lloyd was at her peak, she said her brother who played low level college tennis beat her

Men and women are different. Nothing against the women.

[marmar]

24. I like McEnroe's analysis on ESPN - he doesn't spout platitudes and is honest, but......

...... he's rather sexist. When Andy Murray hired Amelie Mauresmo as his coach, he could barely contain his shock/disgust.

[sufrommich]

28. "because if I lose to, God forbid, a woman"

"...... he's rather sexist" Yeah,that's pretty obvious,but Riggs was too and that was his moneymaker.McEnroe must need the money.

[MuseRider]

29. He kinda laid off the sexist stuff

when his daughter(s?) were growing up but I find he has gone right back to his snarky little comments. Amelie has been the best thing ever for Murray I think and he was used to it since his mother had done so much coaching for him. I think it was an excellent choice and hopefully it won't be the last. It seems silly that it is so one sided.

Waiting anxiously for the US Open!!

[tabasco]

45. Two sports stars I hated during their playing days but enjoyed as sportscasters:

McEnroe and Michael Irvine.

[linuxman]

25. In his prime? No contest. He'd destroy her.

Now? Hard to say. He's getting old. I'd love to watch it though. Does anyone know if he still plays at all? He looks to still be in good shape.

[bigwillq]

34. He still plays legend events

And, I think, World Team Tennis.

[Jim__]

30. He said he would play her for Pacquiao - Mayweather money.

I think he was kidding about being able to beat her - he would probably play her for Pacquiao-Mayweather money. Hell, I'd play her for Pacquiao-Mayweather money. It's tennis. I wouldn't get in the ring with either Pacquiao or Mayweather for any money - that's not tennis.

[malaise]

38. But they won't offer him that kind of money

It's not going to happen Pacquiao already ripped them off

We'd all play her for that money - so what if she whips us

[Octafish]

31. McEnroe's channeling Bobby Riggs.

The guy's just playing Trump for the camera. Mac's one of us.

[dsc]

36. He is 56 vs Riggs 55 but aging now is way different than aging then

I think this could well be a good match if McEnroe is in any kind of playing form. Williams now is better than King then but McEnroe now is also better than Riggs then. In addition, Riggs was very overconfident and King studied Riggs' match against Court and learned well. I would watch the match that is for sure.

[AngryAmish]

98. Riggs worked the match.

Did not pick up a racket for a few months. Drank and smoked like crazy. No exercise, got fat. Played first set in sweats to get overheated.

Did not miss on purpose, Just made sure he could not win.

Great work. I am impressed.

[olddots]

41. where is the Tomb Of The Original Idea ?

Jeez people are treading water when it comes to media concepts .

[LiberalAndProud]

42. I'm not a tennis fan, but that's a match I'd have to see.

Who wouldn't? Such an event could be a brilliant fund raiser for Build African Schools or Habitat for Humanity.

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. McEnroe is nothing but a mouth with legs.

I wouldn't walk across the street to see him play if they paid me.

[rurallib]

52. Get a sex change and go on the women's circuit, John

then you can play them all.

[woolldog]

55. McEnroe probably would win.

But he's getting up there in age so I wouldn't be shocked if he lost. Almost all the men on the men's tour would beat Serena.

"During the 1998 Australian Open, sisters Serena and Venus Williams boasted that they could beat any man ranked outside the world's top 200. The challenge was accepted by Karsten Braasch, a German player ranked No 203 (his highest ranking was No 38). Before the matches, Braasch played a round of golf in the morning, drank a couple of beers, smoked a few cigarettes, and then played the Williams sisters for a set each, one after the other. He defeated Serena, 6-1, and Venus, 6-2. Serena said afterwards "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women's tour and he got to them easily."

[roamer65]

64. Sounds like he wants a match like Riggs vs King.

They should have one. It would be good to watch.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

57. Do all the Serena fans realize she already lost to a man?

Kaarsten Bratch beat her and Venus in back to back sets in 1998.

Yeah, I know, Kaarsten Who?

McEnroe was better than he and Riggs could ever dream of being.....but his age would probably seal his fate.

[geek tragedy]

66. That was 17 years ago.

40 year old McEnroe would beat her, no doubt, as would any club-level guy in his 20s or 30s.

56 year old McEnroe? Hmmm, who has he played recently?

[City Lights]

68. She already beat a male, too. Andy Roddick.

She was 11; he was 10.

[fishwax]

72. true, but she was sixteen at the time, had never won a title and was barely in the top 100 herself

I think it could make for an interesting match, though.

[woolldog]

78. Serena won the US Open the next year. lol

Venus won wimbledon and the french two years later.

They also won the womens doubles the next year, US and French Open.

[fishwax]

82. and she lost in the second round of the Australian the week before

Yes, she won the U.S. Open 20 months later, but 20 months makes a pretty big difference when you're talking about going from 16 years and 4 months old and having played less than 20 matches on tour to a week or two shy of 18 with two pretty full seasons.

[Logical]

87. LOL, do more research. nt

[fishwax]

89. ?

[madamesilverspurs]

58. Sure he could,

if she was blindfolded and had her hands tied behind her back.

[mcar]

65. You go ahead and try Johnny

[leveymg]

75. He's become pathetic. He couldn't even return her serve, much less her backhand. Juglia is his game

Toenail fungus? Really!

[malaise]

77. LOL

That said - he's one of her biggest fans - has long said she's the greatest of all time.
That's why I'm shocked he thinks he could beat her.

[cwydro]

92. I think that was his testosterone talking lol.

He'd be quaking in his tennis shoes if he had to face her.

Hell, she could beat him in arm wrestling lol.

[malaise]

93. LOL

[cwydro]

95. Mom, (89 and huge tennis fan as well as erstwhile player)

almost fell on the floor laughing when I told her about McEnroe's claim!

Then she said, "Oh I'd like to see THAT!"

[malaise]

96. Give her a hug

for the laugh

[cwydro]

97. I will, malaise.

You should have seen her face when I told her about this conversation on DU.

Serena would wipe the court with him (her words.)

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

108. Testosterone? I think it was his accountant talking.

This could turn into a big payday for him.

[WinkyDink]

94. Just something amusing to say to pass the time on a talk show. :-)

[Aerows]

101. She might lose

in a cussing, temper-tantrum throwing contest, but other than that, he's toast.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

109. Well, she did threaten a line judge with death ...

... and forced the judge to retreat from the court.

So don't count her out in a temper contest.

[PatrickforO]

102. You've GOT to be kidding John.

Sorry, buddy, but Serena would eat you alive.

[tularetom]

103. I think she could probably beat him - dude's like 60

But I can say that the match would be notable for one thing, and that's poor sportsmanship and boorish behavior.

Both McEnroe and Williams are among the rudest and nastiest players I have ever seen, particularly in their treatment of officials and the volunteer ball boys and girls.

I would not watch, not that either of them gives a shit.

[jberryhill]

104. Cool. Set up a match for a good cause

[CincyDem]

105. I just had a chance to watch Serena over the last couple days.

Everyone is playing at the Western/Southern Open here in Cincy this week.

Watching Serena live - wow. She is one powerful lady with great court awareness, placement strategy and near flawless execution. I think she'd take him 6/1, 6/3 in under 45 minutes.

Tomorrow afternoon Federer/Djocovic and Serena/Halep. I'm up in Row Z and the only thing further from the court are the national flags but it's great tennis weather here so it's all good.

[malaise]

106. Row Z

but you're there -Enjoy.

Serena is the G.O.A.T.
I spent a few days in your town back in 1988.

[CincyDem]

110. You should visit again.

Cincy is a different city since 1988.

No more WKRP type stuff ("As God as my witness, I swear I thought turkeys could fly&quot . Of course no more Big Red Machine and the Bungles are still trying to play a respectable game but ya can't have it all.

Lot of good restaurants and places to hang out. The two highlights are almost back to back: tennis in mid-August and fireworks on Labor Day. Not sure if it's still true but the fireworks have been touted as the top fireworks show of the year in the country. Maybe that's something we just say to feel good about it but what the heck - it's a great show.

Anyway - lots to do and it's easy to get around.

See ya soon !

[KamaAina]

113. Bring. It. On!

"Out. Game, set, match, Williams."