Do you support or oppose this aspect of Donald Trump's Immigration Plan?

[CreekDog]

This would affect "remittances":

Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

12 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Time expired
	I oppose this
	10 (83%)
	I support this
	2 (17%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[fasttense]

1. Here's the thing, if people like Trump would stop employing people who do Not have the correct

Paperwork, then many, many of these immigrants would return home. I'm not saying all of them would. I'm saying those who haven't established families here in the US and are merely here to earn a wage, would find it too difficult to earn that wage and they would return home.

But idiots like Trump want to bash immigrants while at the same time, exploiting them for cheap labor. We do not have an illegal immigrant problem, we have an illegal employer problem. And the biggest "illegal" is Donald Trump.

[dumbcat]

2. So why isn't Obama's DoJ prosecuting him?

Surely they must have some evidence that he is violating the law by directly employing illegal aliens, don't they? It's not like it's a big secret.

[fasttense]

3. Like the anti monopoly laws on the books that have been ignored by the executive branch

Since Ronnie Raygun, the laws against the employment of undocumented workers are not enforced. Oh a few employers are fined but not much in comparison to what happens to the immigrant who is caught.

The immigrant loses his job, his home, maybe his family. The employer who hired him illegally may get a minor fine but it's not much. Consider the fact that if you go into any restaurant in New York, you will find undocumented workers. If you go to any farm in California, you will find undocumented workers. If you go to any slaughter house, especially Tyson chicken slaughter houses, you will find undocumented workers. Those illegal employers know the fix is in. They know that if immigration bothers to raid them, the worker will suffer the consequences but the corporation that makes million off the back of the immigrant suffers hardly any consequence for illegally hiring the undocumented worker. Just another perk for being rich.

[dumbcat]

4. Yes, I know, but

Obama, Holder, and now Lynch have been in charge of the Justice Dept for over 6 years. These are Federal laws. Why do OUR FOLKS allow this non-enforcement to continue? I can see why the Repubs did it, but what's our excuse? Have we been bought too?

[CreekDog]

7. welcome to DU

seems to like a good time to remind you where you are.

[dumbcat]

8. Why, thank you, but

I've been here for a while.

And you're the fucking Welcome Wagon, I presume?

And since you seem to want to butt into the conversation, why aren't WE prosecuting the Trump for employing illegal aliens?

[fasttense]

10. In a way our party has been bought off too

Obama is an avid believer of free trade ideology. He really believes in fewer regulations on corporations, that business should carry a very small tax burden, and that open borders for the influx of cheap labor is a good thing. He, like Raygun, believes that cheaper migrant labor is inevitable and we should not penalize corporations for using it. Why he believes this I don't know. He certainly did Not mention this free trade crap when he was running for president.

[pampango]

11. Obama has 'opened' no borders. Illegal immigration is a net of zero and has been for several years.

Obama has deported many more than Bush or Raygun ever did.

He has pushed for comprehensive reform that would grant legal status to the 11 million who are here. They are not leaving anyway - either through Romney's 'self-deportation' concept or Trump's 'mass deportation' plan. If they are here, it will be more difficult for unscrupulous employers to exploit them if they are legal and covered by the same labor laws as everyone else. Naturally republicans would prefer that they remain 'illegal' so they are easier to exploit.

He, like Raygun, believes that cheaper migrant labor is inevitable and we should not penalize corporations for using it.

Obama has had a massive program of policing corporations that hire illegal workers. That is one primary reason that net illegal immigration has dropped to zero.

Bush's tactic was showy work place raids in which illegal workers were jailed then deported. What happened to the employers? A slap on the wrist if anything at all. It looked good on TV but did nothing to change the problem.

"Illegal" employers have been fined and jailed under Obama's administration. And illegal immigration has declined a great deal.

If you don't know that you are not paying attention.

[fasttense]

15. I never said he opened the borders

I merely said that open borders are a part of the free trade ideology.

Amnesty, a path to citizenship, they are both methods by which cheap labor can be moved into high pay areas by capitalists to keep wages low. Raygun gave out amnesty and the corporations loved him for it. A path to citizenship is a little better than Raygun's blanket amnesty but it Needs to be carefully enforced.

I know Obama has deported more people than any other president and he deserves to be noted for it. RepubliCONS are blind to what Obama has actually done and I should have listed the numbers he deported as a shw of how seriously he takes immigration. But the zero net immigration numbers into the US are more a function of a lousy economy then a fear of US immigration policy. When the US economy is bad, immigration always drops off.

I have seen maybe 1 or 2 reports in the last 4 years of employers recieving huge fines for hiring undocumented workers. Do you have links? I have seen NO reports of wealthy employers going to jail for illegal hires. If you have any links please post them.

I must say that President Obama has done more to slow down the migration of undocumented workers into the US than any RepubliCON president. And as compared to any RepubliCON president he is overall much better in most any endeavor.

[dumbcat]

12. But still,

Even if that is Obama's belief, and his desired policy, and even if many of our legislators also believe this, don't the President, the AG, and the DoJ have a duty and responsibility to enforce the laws as they exist? It seems that they are blatantly ignoring the federal laws against employing illegal immigrants. When the Repubbies do that we get very angry. Double standards bother me.

[pampango]

13. Do you really believe that is ignoring the law or are you just repeating "what you've heard"?

don't the President, the AG, and the DoJ have a duty and responsibility to enforce the laws as they exist?

Do you have any idea how many 'illegal' immigrants have been deported in the last 6 years? (Many Hispanic groups have expressed extreme anger at his administration's deportation policies.) Or how many 'illegal' employers have been fined and jailed.

There is a reason that illegal immigration has effectively stopped. I think the administration's enforcement policies against illegal employers and the deportation of large numbers of illegal immigrants, might have just a little to do with that. Correct me if we are not supposed to give Obama credit for anything good in the area of immigration.

(Just because Fox News does not covered the decline in illegal immigration does not mean it hasn't happened. The republican party would lose a major talking point if this fact was understood by the American public. The republican party does not want to lose a major conservative talking point so Fox News will not be covering this in the future either.)

It seems that they are blatantly ignoring the federal laws against employing illegal immigrants.

If it were true, they would be ignoring them. Fortunately, it is not true.

When the Repubbies do that we get very angry. Double standards bother me.

Agreed. As we should.

[dumbcat]

17. If there has been such enforcement, and employers jailed or heavily fined

Do you have any idea how many 'illegal' immigrants have been deported in the last 6 years? (Many Hispanic groups have expressed extreme anger at his administration's deportation policies.) Or how many 'illegal' employers have been fined and jailed.

could you be so kind as to cite a few examples? I would then acknowledge my error.

[pampango]

19. Be happy to. There is plenty more where these came from just don't tell the GOP.

They have a meme to stick to.

Cracking down harder on illegal immigrants (auditing "illegal employers&quot

http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/118301014.html

Nobody has been fired from ROC Commercial Cleaning in Oakdale -- at least not yet. Since they got word that federal immigration officials are poring over the company's employment records, some janitors have simply quit.

His company is one of at least nine businesses across the Twin Cities undergoing a so-called immigration audit, part of the Obama administration's national crackdown on employers using undocumented workers. At least 2,000 people in the Twin Cities have lost their jobs in the last 18 months as a result of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) finding that they couldn't prove their eligibility to work in the United States.

The results of ICE's audits offer a warning to businesses, especially those using low-skill workers:

•The number of audits jumped more than 50 percent last year to about 2,200 from 1,444 in 2009.

•Criminal arrests of employers have jumped 45 percent since 2008. Of the 196 employers arrested last year, 42 have been sent to prison so far, with sentences ranging from time served to 3 1/2 years. Many cases are pending.

A local union is calling the firings an attack on the immigrant community. The Service Employees International Union (SEIU) Local 26 in St. Paul, which represents about 5,000 local janitors and maintenance staff, is holding a vigil Sunday at Incarnation Church in south Minneapolis.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x723424

Obama holds record for cracking down on employers who hire undocumented workers

Under Bush, workplace raids on factories and meatpacking plants received much attention. But after Obama took office, the Department of Homeland Security unveiled a new strategy and ditched the workplace raids, which also tended to punish employees, in favor of "paper raids" -- I-9 paperwork audits of employers to determine if they complied with employment eligibility verification laws.

The change was dramatic: the number of I-9 audits soared from 503 in 2008 to more than 8,000 in 2009.

Under Obama, ICE announced sanctions against major employers. That included a $1 million fine against Abercrombie and Fitch that grew out of an I-9 inspection and the termination of hundreds of workers at Chipotle restaurants.

In 2007, ICE arrested 92 employers, while in 2012 it arrested 240, according to ICE. Final orders -- rulings at the end of the case which show employers violated hiring rules -- also increased under Obama. In 2007, there were two final orders, while in 2012 there were 495.

Obama shifted away from Bush’s strategy of workplace raids and turned the focus on employers. Between 2008 and 2009, immigration audits soared from 503 to more than 8,000.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2013/jul/03/debbie-wasserman-schultz/obama-holds-record-cracking-down-employers-who-hir/

Last but not least here is the White House's own page on "Cracking Down on Employers Hiring Undocumented Workers"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/immigration/strengthening-enforcement

U.S. deportations of immigrants reach record high in 2013



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/02/u-s-deportations-of-immigrants-reach-record-high-in-2013/

[dumbcat]

20. Thank you very much

Things I did not know.

I am encouraged, but the number of arrests and convictions of employers seems (to me) to be rather small compared to the magnitude of the problem, but it is a step in the right direction.

I wonder if Trump's companies have been audited, and why we haven't heard of it? You would think someone would be digging up that dirt on him.

[fasttense]

14. You are giving the RepubliCONS a pass

And blaming the Democrats for following precedent?

There a whole lot of laws on the books, sometimes they are ignored because no one is complaining. They are sometimes called scoff laws and sometimes enforcing them is near impossible. When Raygun and bush ignored the laws it established precedent. The laws can be ignored and no one will complain.

Don't blame the Democratic leadership if you are not going to blame the original culprits.

[dumbcat]

16. I am in no position to give anyone a pass

I don't have any authority to do so.

Do you think that if someone once ignored the law then everyone and anyone is entitled to do so?

[pampango]

18. "Do you think that if someone once ignored the law then everyone and anyone is entitled to do so?"

Of course not. Fortunately, Obama is not doing that though republicans constantly imply or state outright that he is.

[jmowreader]

5. This is some KGB-level shit here, Maynard

If a person is not legally entitled to be in America, he is not legally entitled to work in America. Ergo, any monies that person receives from his labor would be "illegal wages."

To impound all of these remittance payments (a remittance payment happens when a foreign national sends money home to his or her family in his or her country of origin) he would have to start by intercepting and opening any letter addressed to Mexico to remove any money contained therein.

Next, he'd have to commandeer the worldwide electronic funds transfer industry to shut down both direct US-Mexico wire transfers and "cutout" transfers - Jorge in Los Angeles wires funds to Mr. Park in Seoul who wires them to Samantha in Montego Bay, Jamaica, who wires them to Gabriel in Mexico City.

Once that was closed up, he would then have to station people in every international airport in Mexico and every place in Mexico where you could land an ocean-going boat to search every person entering Mexico for evidence they're carrying money in.

Problem 1: this WOULD start a war on our southern border. Which we would lose. Badly.
Problem 2: I don't know how many trillions of dollars we spent over the last 70 years to arm ourselves against guys named Erich Honecker, Wojciecz Jaruzelski, Josip Tito, Nicolae Ceaucescu, Kim Il Sung, Mao Tse Tung, Ho Chi Minh, Leonid Brezhnev, Fidel Castro, and Saddam Hussein who were doing this exact same shit, but it was enough to convince me we don't need to go down the same road.
and
Problem 3: It wouldn't work anyway. There are WAY too many ways to move money from place to place the Trumpster can't detect, including putting ten million dollars of remittance payments (which you would carry for a modest 10 percent commission) in a stateroom on your 60-foot Hatteras Yacht and heading out in the middle of the night to fish for man-eating sharks off the coast of Mexico.

After seeing this kind of thing, I have to wonder why a communist like Donald Trump loves capitalism so much.

[CreekDog]

6. yes, yes, yes, yup, you betcha, yeah

nightmares all around and unworkable anyway.

[zappaman]

9. Option #3

FUCK NO.