Timothy Egan, NYTimes: "The anti-Trump Cometh" -- Pope Francis

[pnwmom]

I understand he will give much of his address to Congress in Spanish, since he's not as comfortable speaking English.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/28/opinion/the-anti-trump-cometh.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

In a few weeks, Pope Francis will visit our fair land, a fitting pivot from the Summer of Trump, closing out a gluttonous episode of narcissism, rudeness, frivolity and xenophobia. For all that the orangutan-haired vulgarian has done to elevate the worst human traits a public figure can have, Francis is the anti-Trump. He has more power, media magnetism and authenticity in his lone functioning lung than Donald Trump has in his entire empire of ego.

SNIP

Francis plans a White House visit, an outdoor mass in Washington, a speech before Congress. He is likely to join a rally on the National Mall, highlighting his stance on protecting the planet, that may draw upward of a quarter-million people.

He will visit a prison in Philadelphia, a church in East Harlem, say Mass at Madison Square Garden, address the United Nations. In a six-day visit, the pope will bring substance and self-deprecation — an appeal to our better angels. It may be just enough to wash away the grime of Trump’s ego effluence.

SNIP

But let’s put the papal visit in the only terms that matter to Trump — ratings. Trump has a favorable rating of about 37 percent nationwide; with Latinos it’s 14 percent. A Pew survey staked the pope’s favorability number at 90 percent earlier this year. A later poll had less support; still, numbers that any politician would kill for.

You will never hear that from the pope, a man trying to live by the humbling aphorisms of his namesake, Francis of Assisi. “Show me someone without an ego,” says Trump, “and I’ll show you a loser.” At least we know how he’ll address him.

[Fred Sanders]

1. Excellent article:

"In a few weeks, Pope Francis will visit our fair land, a fitting pivot from the Summer of Trump, closing out a gluttonous episode of narcissism, rudeness, frivolity and xenophobia. For all that the orangutan-haired vulgarian has done to elevate the worst human traits a public figure can have, Francis is the anti-Trump. He has more power, media magnetism and authenticity in his lone functioning lung than Donald Trump has in his entire empire of ego."

[freshwest]

4. That paragraph is really good... n/t

[hifiguy]

2. Talk about a rhetoric bomb:

"For all that the orangutan-haired vulgarian has done to elevate the worst human traits a public figure can have, Francis is the anti-Trump. He has more power, media magnetism and authenticity in his lone functioning lung than Donald Trump has in his entire empire of ego."

Blammo. Target destroyed. Smashed to atoms.

[freshwest]

3. Marking calendar to see what happens... n/t

[gratuitous]

5. It should be interesting

You know that T Rump won't be able to resist commenting, and you also know that it won't be complimentary. Will the media let T Rump off the hook again, and risk the wrath of a shit-ton of Catholics and others who really like Pope Francis?

[freshwest]

6. I actually think that Catholics already despise Trumph, though... Could be wrong. Even conservative

Catholics I know (some well, and some not so well) won't be swayed by his anti-abortion rhetoric in comparison to his hate speech against immigrants.

They're said by Wikipedia to number 68 million in the USA and comprise from 25% to 27% of the total voter population. They've tended to vote for Democrats, and it's said their numbers result in Democratic Party victories along the west coast.

But they have begun to get more conservative and are against taxes, so the vote is breaking down to half and half for each party. 85% of Catholics take religion as a serious matter. If Trump disses the Pope, IMO, he won't do well with them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_politics_in_the_United_States

I just can't see how even conservative Catholics will vote for him. They support emigrants from Mexico as many are Catholic.

They are a mixed bag, but I think Trump will be going for the WASP vote and they are retreating, AFAIK.

[pnwmom]

13. I've never seen numbers that show Catholics are more against taxes than

the general population.

And what may appear to be Catholics getting more conservative may be occurring as a result of liberal Catholics participating less or even breaking away. But they still have the same progressive social action beliefs, whether they go to Church on Sunday or not.

[freshwest]

14. If they're Republican voters, they're against taxes. That same reference point from that source says

Catholics are against public schools being compulsory. That makes sense with the religious and there is some very good scholarship in some Catholic schools. But to be against public schools can be construed as a tax issue or a religious one. Some people who are of any or no religion feel the same way in order to not pay taxes for other people's children being educated. That's where it ends up. I tend to shun conservatives of all kinds, religious or not. I know some excellent progressives who are (or have been brought up in) the RCC or other churches, and in times of personal strife tend to fall back on it.

I have also known a lot of what are called 'cafeteria Catholics' who dodn't agree with the teachings of the Vatican on same sex relationships, birth control, abortion. etc. And feel no shame about it as part of the progressive beliefs that many of us have.

I agree with you that those figures may be skewed because of the people who are no longer going to or identifying as Catholics because they want to be more true to themselves than the Vatican says they should be.

Mind you, I'm not Catholic and never was and never understood their reasoning that they were the only true church as some said, and all of that. Brought up somewhat Protestant but more free thinker by my family, I found the prayers, rituals and confessionals to be very odd.

Most people I know who were 'born Catholic' now call themselves 'recovering Catholics' as some of the conservative Protestants call themselves recovering from those with rigid and anti-progressive groups. I am Christian by culture, not by attendance or talking about it. Just not there anymore, and always saw it as a choice and not as my entire reality. Some people really 'live' in these things and if they're really good hearted, I love 'em.

[pnwmom]

15. True. But that's a big IF. Catholics are a swing group, meaning many vote Democratic.

I'm Catholic and I'm for public schools and against private school vouchers. So are my other Catholic friends.

Yes, I'm a cafeteria Catholic. The vast majority of Catholics are cafeteria Catholics. There are the ones like me, who reject the Church's teachings on subjects like sexuality and birth control. And there are the Catholics like Boehner and Gingrich, who reject the teachings on poverty and our obligations to other people.

Very few, except maybe for those "nuns on the bus," accept all the teachings -- and some conservative cafeteria Catholics accuse them of being too liberal.

[former9thward]

7. When he attacks abortion will you still be praising him?

[pnwmom]

8. Naomi Klein is happy to be working with him on the environment,

climate change, and poverty issues.

If she can work with him, so can I. I don't expect anyone to be without flaws, any more than she does.

This would be similar to supporting Bernie Sanders, for instance, while disagreeing with his positions against the Brady Bill and for the PLCAA. Sanders, by the way, has spoken highly of Pope Francis.

When do you ever find someone you completely agree with on every issue?

http://americamagazine.org/content/all-things/which-candidate-quotes-pope-most

This past February, Sanders delivered a remarkable 15 minute speech from the U.S. Senate floor, built on an anthology of Pope Francis money quotes on signature issues of his pontificate: poverty and economic injustice. The hook? The invitation for Pope Francis to speak to Congress. Sanders opens with a nod of gratitude to (Catholic) House Speaker John Boehner, declaring, “I do not agree with the Speaker of the House John Boehner on very much. But I do agree that it is an excellent idea for there to be a joint session of Congress in the fall to hear from Pope Francis.”

Sanders then praises Francis for his “great courage in raising issues that we rarely hear discussed here in the Congress,” and begins reciting a litany of Francis quotes, remarkable for their poignancy and for the breadth of sources they’re drawn from. There’s a speech Francis delivered in the first couple months of his pontificate to newly appointed Vatican ambassadors, which declares, “The worship of the golden calf of old has found a new and heartless image in the cult of money and the dictatorship of an economy which is faceless and lacking any truly humane goal.” Next, a stark line from a general audience on UN World Environment Day, 2013: “Man is not in charge today, money is in charge, money rules,” Then, Francis’ critique of trickle-down economics from his apostolic exhortation, “The Joy of the Gospel.”And it just keeps rolling.

[Cha]

9. Exactly Timothy Egan.. thank you pnwmom

[Bluenorthwest]

10. 'Anti Trump' except for all their areas of strong agreement, they are both stidently anti choice and

both spend lots of time in public expressing their bigotries toward various minority groups. Francis and Donald are two of the world's leading bullies and misogynists.

[meow2u3]

11. Another gem here

Francis lives in a two-bedroom guesthouse, and says the measure of a person’s value has nothing to do with financial net worth. “When money becomes an idol, it controls man’s choices,” he said. “It makes him a slave.”

Trump sleeps in monogrammed satin, and divides his time among a string of mansions, towers and estates, all crusted in gold. He exults in materialistic excess with an empty sack of a soul. “Part of the beauty of me is that I am very rich,” he said.

Bingo!

[pnwmom]

12. The whole thing is full of gems. Thank you! nt