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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShould it be against the law for a high school teacher to have sex with an 18 year old student?
I've been meaning to post this for awhile now.
The student is 18 years old. Old enough to vote and be considered an adult by the law. But, if he/she has sex with a teacher, the teacher goes to jail. The law is trying to protect all students, regardless of age, and showing preference to an 18 year old would probably backfire, and parents of other students would demand accountability that the teacher be tried by a court of law.
But is it right to charge a teacher for having sex with an eighteen year old?
Another case involved two high school students, a 17 year old female cheerleader and an 18 year old male football player. They got caught having sex and they charged the 18 year old with statutory rape plus he had to sign up as a sex offender. If he had been 17 and she 16, would that make it alright?
Both students attended the same high school and they both had been dating each other for awhile, yet he gets charged with a crime because he's an adult?
See the problem I'm having regarding a teacher getting charged with having sex with an 18 year old student and an 18 year old student getting charged with having sex with a 17 year old student.
What's the deal? Is the law skewed?
trumad
(41,692 posts)But you can get your ass fired if you're a teacher having sex with a student.
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)
http://www.sfgate.com/news/local/crime/article/Two-North-Texas-high-school-teachers-accused-of-6462112.php#photo-7987964
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)I've never heard of such a law.
LuvNewcastle
(16,846 posts)Maybe even an unconstitutional law. If it's against the law for a 26 year-old to fuck an eighteen year-old, it shouldn't matter if the older person was a teacher. I can see him losing his job, but I don't think any legal penalties are called for.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)to clarify explicitly that sex between a non-minor student and primary-education (that is...elementary, middle and high school) educator is illegal. The terminology of it tends to change from place-to-place but the kernel of it is pretty much the same everywhere. They've withstood judicial scrutiny consistently.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)Perhaps because it would come up so rarely, as most students are under 18.
LuvNewcastle
(16,846 posts)that law was made for teachers who take advantage of mentally disabled people who aren't minors. The fact that they bring in elementary and middle school kids reinforces that impression. I can understand having laws that protect, say, an 18 year-old who has Down's Syndrome. I just wouldn't use that law to go after teachers who have affairs with high school seniors. I'd fire the teacher, but wouldn't prosecute.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,196 posts)As a former high school teacher, I think the law is valid. Teachers are being paid to teach, not to have affairs with their students. It's an abuse of power and/or an abuse of the poor judgement of a young person.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)be dating or having sex with a subordinate because of the power they would have over that person. That would apply to a teacher/student relationship it seems to me no matter the age. Don't really know what to think of the high school student analogy. I think if I were a parent I would advise the 18 year old to wait until the 17 year old turns eighteen.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)They must stop having sex for that one year until the younger one turns 18?
Yeah, the laws on this are quirky and unfair.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)wasn't condoned or acceptable. I know it happens but I have a hard time wrapping my head around the concept. In my case, being Latina, until I went to college, I wasn't allowed to be alone around men at all. Yes, I was that well chaperoned and frankly I was fine with it. I wasn't ready to have sex up until then.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)Sex is a very powerful force in the lives of young people and it takes a bit of maturity to handle it well.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)If the other person is above 14 and the person in question is below 19, then it isn't a crime.
I think that law makes a lot of sense.
Personally, I think the AOC should be lower. 16 would be a reasonable year, if you can drive a car you can have sex.
I don't think a teacher should go to jail for sex with an adult student, but they should be fired.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Very poor judgement and self control to not be able to wait a few months.
The charge against the one teen is just stupid. So them having sex is fine one day but a day later (birthday) and it's a crime.
Is the boyfriend black by any chance or disliked by the girl's family for other reasons and they were waiting to pounce on this?
And they had the cops and judges in their pockets?
Sounds like a weird story and maybe a way to get your daughter to hate you for the rest of her life.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)I know it also often happens to gay men and lesbians too. Parents flip out that their teen is having consensual gay sex and they try to use the law to punish the other person.
It is disgusting.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Definitely the teacher should be fired, and given the power dynamics I have serious doubts whether consent can really be freely given.
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)allow an 18 year old to have intercourse with a 17 year old.
Logical
(22,457 posts)"a 17 year old female cheerleader and an 18 year old male football player"
Seems odd to me that is a crime. What city?
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)I read it in an Ohio newspaper about 10 to 11 years ago, and I thought it was ridiculous that an 18 year old would be charged for having sex with a 17 year old. I remember talking to my wife about it at the time, but for the life of me, I can't seem to find anything online.
I found this though.
If you have sexual activity with a 17year old you are correct in that it can be regarded as corruption of a minor if she or her parents wish to attempt to press charges.
http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/legal-repercussions-for-an-18-year-old-boy-dating--422463.html
Logical
(22,457 posts)Kurska
(5,739 posts)Tons of people in Florida have been taken off the sex offender registry following the passage of the Romeo and Juliet law.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)For having sex with his now wife, when she was 17 and he was 18. Her parents did not approve and pressed charges. I consider myself lucky that the parents of my high school girlfriend liked me, although they never caught us (that I know of).
Minnesota.
Sorry, not about to provide a link to personal information (although it is public).
Bucky
(54,020 posts)Teachers, and all school employees, are in positions of authority over students. They're not just acting in loco parentis for minors. Even 18 or 19 year old students are wards of the state during the time they're in school. Any violation of that legal trusteeship is a violation of the civil rights of the student. It's a violation of the public trust. It's a crime.
Statistical
(19,264 posts)If they are so much in love wait until they are no longer a student.
adigal
(7,581 posts)putting a teacher in jail for sex with an 18 year old, when no one else would go to jail for sex with that person, puts teachers in their own legal category. I'm pretty sure that's unconstitutional. Should Clinton have gone to jail for Lewinsky? Talk about a power differential.
Fire the teacher, I think the teacher should even lose his/her license, but jail is too far and illegal.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)There are plenty of workplaces in which there would be a power differential between 2 adults. If one is illegal, they all should be.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I don't see it as an act that should be illegal, but it is unethical, and loss of teaching license is enough of a punishment.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)I however have a hard time reconciling the violation of trust, vulnerability, and misuse of authority.
Bucky
(54,020 posts)All kinds of people, because they enter the public trust, are subject to different laws. Police alone can be convicted of "assault under the color of authority." Uniquely, military officers are disallowed from participating in a wide range of partisan political activities just because they are in the military. Some jobs require relinquishing certain rights, by the nature of the work being done.
Entering a relationship with the public trust, particularly in an environment designed for minors, entails very particular responsibilities. As a teacher you already know your privacy rights are abrogated by the public's right to oversee your work with transparency. It's part of creating an environment in which all students' rights to a good education are the paramount job. When a teacher gets into a sexual relationship with a student, he's not just affecting that student; he's affecting that environment.
But that said, I guess I gotta question my impulse to toss a person in jail for showing bad judgment within the bounds of the law.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)However, even if it's legal, I can definitely see it being grounds for dismissal of the teacher, as that sort of thing could easily have real big "abuse of authority" problems.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)Ilsa
(61,695 posts)when her 29 year old married World History teacher propositions her for sex in trade for a passing grade? Or what if he threatens her with an undeserved F if she turns him down?
Sex between teachers and students isn't fair to the student, whether they are 18 or 22. Doing "the boss" isn't a good thing.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Reporting that to the police in some states can block the student from getting a driver's license for years.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)Any power-skewed relationship is a bad idea, no matter what the ages, but they shouldn't be illegal, provided they are both adults.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)If they're legally an adult, just wait til the teacher is the 'ex-teacher'.
I actually almost got in trouble for something similar in college.
As a graduate teaching associate I asked what I thought of as a 'former' student of mine out - AFTER the last day of classes, and AFTER I'd turned in her (and everyone else's in the class) grades for the semester. One of the faculty who was a member of the panel who would decide whether or not I was granted my PhD in a few days overheard (my office at the time was right next to the department xerox, and I was talking normally, because I didn't think I was doing anything wrong) and was all set to deny me my PhD, because 'technically' the class wasn't officially over for another two days. I was stunned, and pointed out that I had waited until I thought she was no longer my student to ask her out, but because I could, technically, resubmit grades for that class for another two days, he felt I was asking a current student out. (And, btw, she said no anyway.)
I had to promise him I wasn't going into teaching before he relented and said he'd sign off on my doctorate. (And I wasn't going into teaching, so that was the truth.)
But my entire degree could have gone down the drain because I hadn't known I had to wait for the 'official' end of the class two days later.
So my advice to that teacher would be - wait til they graduate, and are 'officially' no longer a student before you ask them out.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)FWIW, I don't blame you for that mistake. You were trying to be careful . . . .
Kurska
(5,739 posts)This is why I would never consider asking an undergraduate out that I taught out. Too dangerous and if things go wrong he could raise all sorts of hell.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)again. I taught both an intro lab course, the old 'rocks for jocks', and optical mineralogy labs, a sophomore level thing, as well as even working with an undergrad on an independent study course once with one of the students from the optical course.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Once the student graduates, then okay. But while you are teacher in the school at which the student attends, you are in a position of authority over that student and there could be many circumstances in which the relationship was not quite right. For example, giving alcohol/drugs to the student, and then kind of using that pressure.
Sad as it is to say, many sexual predators are drawn to situations in which they have access to the vulnerable. Such persons are expert at creating unethical suasive situations. Some lines are necessary for the protection of the vulnerable.
If it is real consensual relationship than it can certainly wait until the 17 year old graduates and is 18.
As for the 17/18 year old, an increasing number of states have exceptions for teenage relationships, and that ought be one.
It is not okay for an 18 year old to date a 14 year old. But teens will date and have sex, and one of them turning 18 with a year or two difference shouldn't make it a crime.
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=suasive+definition&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)But as to your other examples, I am not aware of any state that would charge statutory rape when there is a difference of only one year in students' ages, even when the older one is 18.
Which state are you talking about?
Kurska
(5,739 posts)And no Romeo and Juliet laws.
Just because they generally won't do it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Often it happens when the parents have some kind of local pull and there is nothing that can be done about because it is technically illegal.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Kurska
(5,739 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I'd be interested in seeing it if you knew of one.
I did see a number where the younger person was 2 years younger.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)Black male who was charged in a small town for having sex with a 17 yearold.
He ended up getting removed from the registry after the law was passed.
Again, all it takes is one well connected parent who knows the local sheriff to ruin someone's life.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)It walks the knife edge of sexual harassment and abuse of power.
It is not something that should be pursued by anyone that has a sense of morality and likely means they are lacking in those virtues and therefore are a danger to society if left unchecked.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The controlling factor is that both parties are under nineteen and there's less than a three year age difference--no sex offender registry in those cases.
Teachers shouldn't be screwing students even if the students are 30. It's an inappropriate senior-subordinate relationship.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)A professional teacher should avoid a romantic relationship with his or her student, regardless of age. If one develops, the teacher/student relationship should end ASAP.
This is a matter for the members of the profession to handle, not the government.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)That's completely inappropriate for an educator.
Oneironaut
(5,504 posts)That sounds like a pervy loser to me, and someone that definitely should not be teaching.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Now, a teacher student relationship is highly unethical and there should be career repercussions like firing the teacher, but a law? Hell Fucking No!.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)so the teacher can coerce the student too easily. I can see the point in that case.
But I think every state should allow relationships between people within 3 years of age. A 16-year-old and a 19-year-old isn't the same as a 16-year-old and a 30-year-old. Within 3 years of age, they're peers.
padfun
(1,786 posts)Hell, I wish my 10th grade English teacher wanted to have sex with me!
tblue37
(65,403 posts)would be if a supervisor sexually exploited an underling in the workplace.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)All situations involving unequal positions are more liable to be abusive. (Not violently abusive, just abuse where one side takes and the other side mainly gives.)
A safe learning environment is improtant to all students, including the 18-year olds. That is why such realationships are to be discouraged. This doesn't require a law, just a common sense school regulation.
As for changing an 18 year old with statutory rape for having a 17 year old boy-/girlfriend: that is plain madness. How would that relationship not be between two consenting equals?
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Maybe not statutory rape level of punishment, but it should be career ending and some kind of legal consequences attached. Probation maybe?
The 18 and 17 year old thing doesn't sound right. I thought there was usually some kind of buffer built into the law to prevent that from happening. Like it only counts as statutory rape if there's more than a 3 or 4 year difference. What state are we talking about here?
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)Please read post number 15.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)That is a gross violation of the teacher/student relationship, is highly unprofessional, and the teacher needs to, at the very least, permanently lose his or her teaching license, as well as being held accountable for whatever laws apply.
hunter
(38,317 posts)Let's call kindergarten first grade, and graduate everyone at sixteen, at the very latest, seventeen.
Nevertheless teachers who abuse their position of authority by having sexual relationships with students should be immediately dismissed and further investigated to determine if their behavior was a single occurrence of idiocy and lack of impulse control, or if they are serial sexual predators who just happened to get caught. Yes the law ought to be involved, maybe not the local cops storming the school in their militarized four wheel drive sports utility vehicles, but some legal authority who can investigate independent of any school administrations who might want to cover up such abuse.
My own high school was a Lord of the Flies experience for me, so I quit. This was before the GED test existed but I was able to get into college on other test scores and the signature of a principal who wanted to get rid of me because I was a lightening rod for trouble. And that was that.
There was no more physical violence against me in college. Eighteen year old adults outside of high school go to jail for beating a minor bloody. But some professors clearly didn't like to have minors in their classes, especially on overnight and longer field trips. They didn't like the feeling they had to be chaperons, and some felt they had to dial back their language and behavior, although that wasn't a problem for me. I'd heard and seen everything. I don't think any aspect of human behavior shocked me by the time I was sixteen.
Anyways, in 1970's U.S.A. there definitely were teachers who loved their jobs because they were sexually attracted to students, and I'd say they were divided into two groups: those younger teachers who never grew out of their high school "glory" days, and older, very calculating sexual predators. But by the time I was training to be a teacher it was very very clear that this abuse of authority would not be tolerated, and be cause for immediate dismissal.
I started teaching for noble reasons, hoping to make schools a better place than I experienced, but of course the school I ended up in as a young inexperienced big city public school teacher was an underfunded overcrowded mess. Many kids had horrible situations at home, they were hungry, had been drinking, having sex, doing drugs since grade school, etc.. Even the best students have trouble learning in that environment and it's a rare teacher who can make their classroom a place of refuge from the storms outside. There were rare days when my classes were calm and the kids were learning some science, but most days it was me putting out small fires before the entire class caught fire and exploded. It was the most stressful job I've ever experienced, always in my head, 24/7, weekends, holidays, school was in my dreams. I burned out quickly. I couldn't build that wall in my mind, that this is school, and here I am away from school, all the papers are graded, and this is MY time.
Back to the original post, 17 year olds do have sex with 18 year olds. By that age kids should know how to be safe, both the practical knowledge of birth control and minimizing the risks of sexually transmitted diseases, and the equally important emotional aspects, most especially how to recognize and avoid abusive relationships.
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)Really very interesting read.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Power imbalance.
Most states have a voluntary social companion rule - if consent is given and they aren't more than 4 years apart - to avoid statutory rape charges where two 17 year olds have a relationship and one turns 18.
Rex
(65,616 posts)It is never okay imo.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Unless you're gay, then it's 18.
Or unless you're a student at a public school: then there is no age of consent, due to the power imbalance.
Technically, if a 19 year old student slept with an 18 year old custodian, the custodian is guilty of felony rape (or at least that's how the law is written).
For me, it's not really a grey area: don't diddle the kids, even if they're old enough to vote. Even if you don't think it's immoral and don't think it should be illegal, at the very least its unprofessional.
Schools are places for young people to get an education, not places for their teachers to get laid.
I get that, occasionally, some teachers get confused. When teaching night school I've had several professional strippers and escorts, of both sexes (this Vegas; both of those fields are viable career options). They were physically attractive, they made flirtatious advances, they were certainly familiar with their sexuality. But no matter how tempted or confused in the situation one is, one still has to know who it's ok to rub genitals with and who it's not.
Would it be ok for a psychiatrist or therapist to sleep with 18 year old patients?
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Response to Unknown Beatle (Original post)
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