Arggghhh!!! Just off phone with RW sister and my head is exploding!

[DiehardLiberal]

How do you deal with family members who are so blind to reason??

We are adopted so have very different genetic makeup but she is adamantly conservative even though she works as an admin asst for the State and her husband has been unemployed for the past year or so (admits her beloved capitalism isn't working well for her). She likes to quote that 50% of people are unemployed (in her house for sure!) and living off the system.

Tonight she said that they would like to leave their area and move but hate to give up the good health insurance she has (she did survive cancer this year). However, she wouldn't want to be on "Obamacare". She hates how it was crammed down "our" throats... How do you try to reason with someone like this??

FYI I was also diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago and had to wait for Medicare to get treatment. Had the Affordable Care Act been in place I could have been diagnosed earlier. Had given up my private insurance a few years earlier as a self-employed individual as the premiums were $400 a month for a $10,0000 deductible! How I wish "Obamacare" had been an option!!

Anyone have any advice?? I am livid with her and her kind. Sorry to vent but I am genuinely seeking words of wisdom.

Thanks!

[madaboutharry]

1. Sometimes it's best not to discuss politics.

Hope you and your sister are both doing well.

[DiehardLiberal]

21. Thank you! So far so good for us both health wise.

[NRaleighLiberal]

2. you can't. Her belief system is cemented into place. Teflon reflectors. Just talk about other stuff

or if she starts, say you have something to do.

My brother is the same way, as are some neighbors. It is just a few tiny examples of the loads of folks who vote against their own interests, who are - brainwashed? willfully ignorant? afraid? need to be led (vulnerable to authoritarian) - I can't understand it.

[DiehardLiberal]

4. Thanks NRaleigh!

So very frustrating when people are willfully ignorant. Especially against their own best interests not to mention those who they are supposed to care about. Oh and that 'Christian' ethic! Guess I'm still seething.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone and for the perspective!!!

[awoke_in_2003]

41. "need to be led"

that is where I would bet my money.

[DiehardLiberal]

44. Yep - You hit that nail squarely on the head. nt

[DiehardLiberal]

3. Thanks - I actually didn't know we were discussing politics

until she said she heard that Obamacare was expensive. And I asked how she knew that. And then she said she didn't want to discuss politics. I thought we were talking about health insurance... But I hear you! Thanks.

[gratuitous]

5. Perhaps a little history lesson?

It would appear that your sister has forgotten some of the more odious features of health insurance before the Affordable Care Act. Does she really want to bring back denials of coverage for "pre-existing conditions"? There were also lifetime caps on coverage, so if you had a really expensive condition (like, oh, cancer), you could reach the limit of your coverage in a big hurry just on pharmaceuticals alone.

Yeah, it would be nice not to have Obamacare "crammed down our throats," but it wasn't like insurance companies were going to do anything about the dysfunctional health care system. High-end physicians and clinics were doing all right and weren't too interesting in changing things. Unfortunately, people were dying or running up huge bills under the old system, even while insurance companies and some providers were doing very well.

To tell the God's honest truth, I'm not completely happy with Obamacare (as you call it) either. It would have been a lot better to cut the insurance companies out altogether. But the present system is a damn (you don't have to swear, but it might not hurt) sight better than what it replaced.

[DiehardLiberal]

7. Yes - the term "Obamacare" was hers not mine which is why I put it in quotes.

Didn't seem to matter to her that I could have been diagnosed earlier if the ACA had been in place a few months before I qualified for Medicare. Thank god for that or I wouldn't be here!

I completely agree with everything you said. The insurance companies were running rampant over us and still got a sweet deal under ACA. I'm for Medicare for all. Go Bernie!

The maddening thing is that someone can want health insurance and be so blind to the benefits because of their dogmatic view of Obama. Still steaming, but thanks - all of you are helping!!!

[gratuitous]

8. Find a point of two of agreement

That way, she knows you heard her, then add a little information that it's plain she's either forgotten or overlooked. You may not change her mind, but constant drips can wear away even the densest stone.

[DiehardLiberal]

13. Beautifully put - thanks!

[gratuitous]

14. Kinda drunk late on a Friday night

But sometimes I make unexpected sense.

[DiehardLiberal]

17. Ditto on the drinks.. but you are doing great!

[Control-Z]

6. My sister has become almost as bad.

She believes that voter ID is a must because of all the fraud by individuals in her state. NC. If she even considered doing the math she would understand how silly she sounds.

I don't even bring up politics with her any longer. Anything but.

[Warpy]

9. You can't fix stupid. A brick wall has to fall on her to wake her up

Sadly, one is very likely to.

You're lucky, most people are related to the right wing nuts in their families.

About all you can do is cut her off at the pass if she starts to talk about sex, religion, or politics.

[DiehardLiberal]

12. Haha! Thanks! Funny thing is I didn't realize we were talking about politics.

I thought she was talking about losing her wonderful health care if she left her State services job.. I was just letting her know there were other options and she made it political. Can't win with these folks.

[DiehardLiberal]

10. As a postscript to this, I am meeting a friend tomorrow who is dying...

He is 59 - too young for Medicare - and has been given 6 months to live from emphysema.

His doctor made sure he got signed up for Affordable Care and is now receiving what he says is fantastic hospice care because of it. He is so grateful. Where would he - and many in his situation - be without this program???

Of course, the program could be better and great health care should be a right not a privilege but to turn one's nose up at making such services available to everyone is incomprehensible to me. Especially someone who espouses Christianity. Isn't that about helping others??

There are times I just can't deal with the hypocrisy...

[roody]

11. You are not going to change her mind.

So let it go. Don't discuss this stuff with her.

[Blus4u]

15. You might try this little tidbit....

....from my experience with the Affordable Care Act:

I am a 63 year old male who spent my working life in cubicle-ville for major U.S. Manufacturers.
Finding myself unemployed and unemployable on my 60th birthday. My wife and I purchased worthless insurance at $800/mo for a $10k deductible policy until the ACA became law.

We have a policy that costs us $495/mo. We also get a subsidy of around $800/mo based on an adjusted gross income of $58k . Individual deduct is (I think) about $4k.

I was diagnosed with esophageal and stomach cancer in April of this year, fitted with a chemo port and stomach feeding tube that month. Three days after that procedure, I collapsed in the Oncology Groups Lobby from abdominal pain due to an infection onset by the stomach tube procedure.

Result: 13 day hospital stay. Cost billed: $195,000
Insurance paid $45,000, hospital wrote down $149,000, my charge $750
Note: I had met my deductible by the time I got to that point.

I have continued treatment with radiation and chemo and am now on my second course of serious chemo. Because we have not net our max out of pocket I am still paying along but the ACA has kept us from moving into a cardboard box.
Now occasionally a provider will not accept me and some hold their nose when I give them my policy number etc. When I asked one of my surgeons why, he explained I was receiving Medicare rates. I have been able to make it with a small pension and 401k withdrawals, but my ACA experience has been phenomenal.

I'm not sure how long I can manage but at least I'm alive and don't owe my soul to our sick medical industry.

Peace

[DiehardLiberal]

16. Oh bless you, Blus!!!

So glad you have been able to benefit from that coverage and subsequent care!!! And not having to forego treatment or the stress of a mountain of medical bills.

I wish you the best with your health and thank you for taking the time and effort to respond!

[TBF]

30. Had about the same -

for me it was an 8 day stay that totaled a little over $200K (it's a great hospital but pricey). "Catastrophic medical event". To date I haven't seen the line by line break down, but I know that "discounts" brought it down to about 75K, insurance paying bulk, I will pay 8K at most which is about 4% of the bill (they are not done yet). I have only received invoices totally $1K so far which I can pay next month. The hospital bill itself was only $800 - the rest that I'll potentially have to pay is the individual surgeon and other doctors.

That is with a good policy through my husband's work - we are allowed to see specialists and all of that. We do pay pretty hefty premiums, but I have a couple of chronic illnesses.

So, from what you said it sounds like ACA is about the same as private policies if not better. So that is good news.

[Blus4u]

32. My dad passed away at 87 a couple years ago.

He was a retired educator who worked well into mid seventies with federal, state and military time.
He talked frequently about how much he liked Medicare and the surgeon told me that my ACA plan was modeled after Medicare. I have been ecstatic with how my policy is paying.
I know that if you contact the providers and illustrate a willingness to work with them, frequently they will set up reasonable payment plans. I was able to do this when I paid cash for minor issues when in between policies.

I wish you the best and a speedy recovery and hope the worst is behind you!

Peace

[TBF]

34. I wish you the same -

these serious medical issues are not fun. We are fortunate to live in a nation where there is amazing medical care, and I'm fortunate to be in a position where I can pay the out-of-pocket costs. But most people are finding salaries lagging behind in this country and wouldn't be able to come up with 1K in a month much less 8K. And that is why we need single-payer. I am hoping we will take ACA further and get everyone covered.

[seabeyond]

18. NO politic. NO politics... at all or i hang up or walk out. two brothers a father and one nephew.

I wont discuss it with them. Sometimes father is reasonable.

But one brother for sure, never.

That is how I handle it.

[DiehardLiberal]

19. You are right! I got caught unexpectedly but maybe would have known if I hadn't had

such a hard week with TPTB wreaking havoc in my own life. Sometimes I just can't take the ignorance and arrogance any more.

[seabeyond]

20. i hear you. my one brother, everyway he can he tries to take it there. everything is seen thru his

Fox news eyes and it is sad. He has a vast range of knowledge and plenty of room for interesting conversation. But everything gets turned to Muslims, gays, liberals. Pc. Feminism.

I don't know why but he begs me to discuss. How will we come together, understand, resolve if we don't discuss.

NO!!!!

It is funny but not worth it.

[DiehardLiberal]

22. Yes - the stress isn't worth it. We came together when she was diagnosed and I was there for her

but we really have very little in common - apart from cancer. Different lives, different philosophies - even though our adoptive parents were staunch Democrats and wonderfully giving, tolerant people, she and another adopted brother turned out to be born again, right wing zealots. Weird. Nature vs nurture.. but I can't have a rational discussion with her.

[ncjustice80]

23. Disown her.

Long ago I disowned any family member who doesn't share a progressive view. If you aren't progressive, then I have NO time for you. If they want me to come show them how wrong they are and come over to the right side, I'm happy to do so, but most would rather steadfastly claim to the party of racism and hate and misogyny.

[DiehardLiberal]

24. I understand. I disowned the brother I referred to in a previous post but he is not just stupid

he is evil. She is just not very bright and easily led. She doesn't have a good life and I've tried to be there for her as the past year has been particularly hard for her (not that my own life has been easy). But I really wasn't expecting the political reaction when I was trying to help her with options as she had said she was thinking of moving away and changing her life. BTW that option includes living on Social Security - a socialist program.. but that's OK, I guess in her book. I do try to stay away from politics with her - very hard lately as I'm so excited about Bernie Sanders - but I think I just need to stay away from her for awhile and see how it goes. Thanks!

[marmar]

25. Facts can't seem to penetrate right-wing skulls......

[mopinko]

26. just cut her off.

i lost touch with most of my family when my oldest sister started spouting limbaghisms when my mom died. i had stayed in the fold for my mom. after she passed i just didnt give a shit.

i miss them sometimes, but i have zero tolerance for that shit. the only thing that really hurts is that my nephew was working in the white house, and almost the whole family got west wing tours. i doubt most of them even voted for obama! but they still had to go touch the seat of power. the only consolation was that i would have had to travel to dc with them. i doubt i would have managed that without any bloodshed.

stay strong.

[The River]

31. Same Here

Younger sister was brainwashed by decades of R/W hate radio while delivering mail in a rural area. All 3 of her kids are convicted felons and she blames a "liberal society" for making them go bad. Nothing I could do but wish her well and then just cut off all contact. No regrets.

[onecaliberal]

27. For one thing, she would be uninsurable now.

Having a cancer diagnosis, or any disease including being born female is a pre-existing condition.

[brewens]

28. Dude I went to school with has MS. Litterally everything he has or does is courtesy of

liberal policies and the taxpayers. Without that, he'd truely be relying on his family and church to take care of him. No tricked out van, no handicapped access, wouldn't have his own apartment or anything. The last time I saw him was at Costco, he was there on his own. Not a freakin' chance he could even think about doing that if right-wingers had their way.

Unbelievably, he's right-wing to the bone! There would be no way of getting through to him. If I pointed all of the above out to him, we would no longer be friends.

[PearliePoo2]

29. I'm right there with you but it's my older brother.

He's a retired union guy. (Teamster and Operating Engineers) Our family is 3rd generation union. But that upbringing was no match for the powerful AM stations broadcasting Rush and his hate garbage in the radio wasteland of Eastern Washington State.
My brother drove truck all day on highway construction jobs for 30 years. AM radio blasting away in the cab. His mind got poisoned and he went to the dark side. My sister and I agree that we have lost him.
He used to be a nice guy....handsome, funny, caring, generous. Now all he wants to do is talk shit. He's full of hate. I don't even recognize him anymore as the brother I used to love and be close to. I have written him off.
It sucks.

[DiehardLiberal]

33. Thank you all for your stories and support!

If misery loves company, I am in the best of company here.

I'll never wrap my head around how people can blindly follow ideas that are against their own best interests. Just crazy! Thank you DU for a place of sanity in this off-kilter world!!

[Duppers]

35. You have my sympathy and empathy.

Both my brother and mother are incapable of logical thought and consequentially are wingers. Surprise not.

My mother just had her 90th b.d. and has problems with dementia which has just strengthened her blind resolve and bigotry. I literally have to have a drink to keep from lashing out at her in our almost daily conversations. Seriously, I grind my teeth in my sleep so badly that my dentist made a guard for me to wear. Sigh. My brother is worse. Once my mother is gone, I plan to change my phone # and cease any contact with him just to preserve my health and sanity.

I admire your listening to and trying to help your sister. My hat's off to you! My brother and mother have emptied not only my supply of patience and but my respect for them. I believe respect is essential in any healthy relationship, even with family.

I'm going to hell, aren't I?

[DiehardLiberal]

40. Oh, I've tried listening/helping but I'm so close to writing an email setting the record straight

so keep your hat on for now.

I really don't have much respect at this point. Just realize that she doesn't have a lot going for her and feel sorry for her. Until she pisses me off!!!

See you in hell, Duppers!!

[Vinca]

36. Maybe her insurance company is in the pool with a policy identical to what she has.

That would be funny . . . especially if it was cheaper than what she's paying. I was in a similar "waiting for Medicare" fix. If it hadn't been for Obamacare and the pre-existing condition pool I would have had to spend 3 additional years in horrible pain from a totally kaput hip waiting for Medicare. There's something about righties. Unless it happens to them personally, they don't understand it.

[DiehardLiberal]

39. That would be beautiful. She has State of California coverage which is probably good and she

should be grateful she had it for her cancer treatment. But why she would diss ACA when she is considering leaving her job without knowing anything about it except for what she has "heard" is beyond me. She and her husband are dead broke and why she thinks the system is working is crazy. And she looks down upon people is similar situations.. so baffling to me.

Happy for you that you received help when you needed it!!! Thanks for your comment, Vinca!

[laundry_queen]

37. You cannot reason with them

But what I like to do is totally ridicule them. It seems to work. If they don't change their mind at least it shuts them up.

For instance, when my dad starts spewing some dumb RW shit, I start laughing at him. "hahaha, YOU believe that shit? I thought you said you were smart? Boy have they got your number. hahaha. The only people I know who believe that are right wing religious nuts" - (my dad hates religious nuts, you may need to use another group not liked here). "You've gone off the deep end now, I can't take anything you say seriously if you believe THAT. hahaha."

Usually my dad gets so pissed he shuts up. Sometimes he'll say something about 'tree huggers' or 'bleeding hearts' at which point I just say something about better a bleeding heart than none at all, at least I have a soul as opposed to the bottomless pit of cold darkness that is at his center. I always say this in a lighthearted tone, like I think it's hilarious he would call me a bleeding heart, like some kind of inside joke to me, not like I'm actually hurt or insulted. I think laughing about it makes him even more mad. I ALWAYS make sure to follow this up...when he states some other heartless RW position, I'll say, "I know, I know, you don't need to remind me you are soulless and empty. It's okay, I understand."

It helps to have good comebacks too. My dad likes to go on and on about how left wing parties are horrible for business. Now - I have a business degree, including many courses in economics and finance. I definitely know more than he does, he doesn't follow economics or business at all, has no post secondary education at all. So I started correcting him on some of his policy misconceptions. He lost his shit and started YELLING (!) at me that books couldn't teach me everything. I shot back: "oh, and the (rw newspaper he reads) is the bible of all economic policies? Have you read anything at all about economics that wasn't in that newspaper? It's like your bible. God, arguing with you on this is like talking with a religious nut about evolution" (see above about what he thinks about religious people). He didn't say much after that, he shut up and just seethed. I acted like I wasn't bothered at all and changed the subject.

Conservatives HATE when you are secure in your beliefs...it undermines their belief that left wingers are wishy washy. So always be secure in your beliefs and act like they aren't secure in theirs.

Also: Conservatives are the biggest sore loser whiny crybabies. I live in Alberta, Canada. When the NDP (very left wing party) won here, I thought I was going to get an earful from my dad. Nope, he refused to talk about it. When I'd bring it up, he'd pout, "I'm not discussing it with you" at which point I would say, "awww poor baby. your side lost. hahaha. now you'll have to pay an extra dollar of taxes each month! Wah!!"

Anyway, I think you get the point. It helps that in my family, when I was growing up, teasing was something that just happened. My dad was actually a big bully and used teasing as an excuse, so now it's payback time. I tease him incessantly. While I haven't brought my dad around yet, he now just ignores me and talks about other stuff. He's careful to ever bring up politics because i'll just discredit everything he says. So, now it's more peaceful at family gatherings.

Bonus: I've managed to nearly change my brother's vote. He used to agree with my dad on everything. Not anymore. He's actually considering voting for a party further to the left in the fall federal election here. One voter at a time....changing their minds with ridicule, lolol.

[DiehardLiberal]

38. Love you, LQ!

Could learn a lot from you! And it's funny but my sister always says she doesn't want to discuss politics with me - then makes some incredibly stupid generalization but far be it from me to interject any facts!! That's not acceptable.

I didn't learn to deal with this stuff from my parents like you did. They were idealistic liberals and walked the talk. How that didn't rub off on my siblings who profess to idolize them I'll never, ever, ever understand.

Thanks for your valuable insight and humor!! Way to go!!

[Gloria]

42. Same situtation with my brother, who married a

Salvation Army person on the rebound, who then found Jesus BIG TIME after going down to Lynchburg, VA after having twins. She was already dysfunctional, certainly couldn't face having the responsibility, so went for "Christian Counseling" down there and came back worse...Over 30 years, my brother succumbed and my mother and I were gradually "cut out of the herd."

We left Jersey 15 years ago for various reasons, and knowing it wouldn't really make a difference in terms of family. The kids are all nuts, too. I call them "Dugger-lite." They really are allowed to lie, etc...well, so do the parents. They are dishonest and sneaky.

My advice? Realize that trying to be nice and tolerant will get you nowhere. These people will not really connect with you and they CHOOSE TO BE WILLFULLY IGNORANT! My brother was here for his duty visit to my 93 year old, under hospice care mother, and I was appalled at his complete choice to be ignorant. His kid, messed up, will be getting Medicaid next year via Obamacare...and YET...my brother informed me that he is "against socialized medicine." Sound familiar??

He left, I was relieved and it's truly over. I have NO interest in them at all. It's a good feeling to be finally free of them.
So my advice is....start to CUT BAIT...don't try anymore, and gradually, you will separate emotionally. That is the ONLY way...
you will feel better and be healthier, mentally and physically!!!

[DiehardLiberal]

43. Thanks, Gloria for sharing your experience.

They do put us through some traumas, don't they...

I did already cut connections with a brother who is the biggest LOSER I have ever met - did so decades ago. Masquerades as a Christian while asking for and accepting handouts from my poor dad until he was too old to write a check - being a grandfather himself and not ever having a real job!! The story gets even uglier but I'll spare you that.

My sister on the other hand isn't a bad person - just woefully ignorant and swallowing the RW propaganda. She lost her only son in December and then the cancer shortly after while taking time off from her low-paying govt job and her husband not working. It's hard to cut ties at this moment but I really get incensed at the willful ignorance you mentioned. And how people like her look down on others when they are so close to the bottom themselves.

She is back to work and I'll just cool my jets for awhile. I don't have as much patience as I used to and know I'd be happier without that shit. But I'm sure you understand my dilemma.

Thanks so much!!!