When Racism Slips Into Everyday Speech

[KamaAina]

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/05/potentially_racist_words_and_phrases.html

A recent NPR story revealed the disturbing and shockingly racist origins of the catchy jingle played from ice cream trucks around the country. What else are we hearing—or saying—that we should know more about?

These seemingly innocuous terms have questionable origins or histories related to race, and there’s probably plenty more where they came from.

1. “The peanut gallery”: Just a dismissive term for hecklers or critics, right? Wrong. You’ll probably never use this phrase in reference to a group of black people again once you know its history. It originally referred to the balconies of segregated theaters, where African Americans had to sit. (Why “peanut”? Apparently, peanuts were introduced to America during the slave trade and thus became associated with blacks.)...

4. “Sold down the river”: Today, if people say they’ve been “sold down the river,” they probably mean they’ve been betrayed. But when the phrase originated, that betrayal was a lot more serious. During slavery, being “sold down the river” was literal. Slave owners would sell their slaves and send them via the Mississippi or Ohio River to plantations in the Deep South, where plantation conditions were much worse.

[GummyBearz]

1. Lets start a list of words to ban

Peanut should obviously be included

[Baitball Blogger]

2. "Potentially" racist is the operative word.

[jonno99]

3. There is plenty of ACTUAL racism to be found these days. There is really no need

to go looking for it - especially when offense is neither intended nor perceived.

Why foment more discontent? It serves no purpose other than generate more discord - less harmony...

[LanternWaste]

23. What specifically leads you to believe that particulars of etymology generates discord?

What specifically leads you to believe that particulars of etymology generates, history and the contextual relationship of words generates discord?

Are there other bits and pieces of language science we should ignore to better assuage the sensibilities of the peace-makers?

[jonno99]

33. Personally I'm a fan of studying etymology. What "leads me to believe" (and I could be wrong with

this OP) is that many times there are attempts to silence or intimidate others in order to satisfy someone's perceived notion of closet racism (e.g. the discussion surrounding the use of the word 'thug' during the recent troubles in Baltimore).

The question really is: what is the intent of this OP? Is it a history lesson, or something else?

[yuiyoshida]

4. Words and their meaning have always interested me.

(especially learning new Japanese words!) so thank you for sharing this. I was surprised about some of them, and others seemed obvious. Thanks for posting

[uppityperson]

6. Indeed, it is quite interesting to learn the etiology of words and phrases.

[TexasProgresive]

11. It is interesting when the etymology is correct and not just someones

musing.

[yuiyoshida]

12. A Japanese word I recently learned

from watching a festival was the word Wasshoi

Wasshoi' is the sound of encouragement made by people carrying 'mikoshi' (portable shrines) at Japanese festivals. People loudly shout 'Wasshoi, wasshoi' as they carry the 'mikoshi' through the streets.



"Wasshoi" is considered to have developed in Edo, origintaing from the phrase "Wajo Dokei", meaning 'to unify the peoples´s hearts together and be full of enjoyment'. This "Wajo Dokei" was shortened to "Wajo", then changed to "Wakasho" (meaning to carry harmony), and finally changed to "Wasshoi", meaning 'to stay with harmony'.


-*- and that's your Japanese lesson of the day! -*-

[GummyBearz]

14. Wasshoi' is ...

heh heh, you said "ass", heh heh heh

[yuiyoshida]

15. heh heh heh...

[Xithras]

5. Eh. A few of these are just wrong. They're Internet memes without any real truth.

"The jig is up" is only racist in the minds of the terminally offended. The term is ELIZABETHAN in origin, and existed hundreds of years before the Klan started hanging people. The claim that "jig" = "nig" is an Internet invention. "Jig" is simply an old English word for "joke". The word "jig" is literally just a heavily regionally accented version of "joke" ("joke" became "jick", pronounced like Rick, which eventually became "jig&quot .

Peanut gallery comes from the vaudeville days. This is one of those claims that includes just enough truth to make it believable. The top galleries in early theaters were the cheapest seats in the house, but they were NOT just for black people. Many theaters DID have segregated peanut galleries, but that typically just meant that they split their peanut galleries into white sections and black sections. The peanut galleries themselves were heavily used by the poor of ALL races. And the reference to peanuts? That has nothing to do with black people. Peanuts were cheaper than popcorn back in the day, so peanuts were the snack of choice among poor theatergoers. Since it was once considered socially acceptable to pelt the stage with food if the performers were terrible, a bad show would often lead to a rain of peanuts falling on the stage and other theatergoers below.

"Spade a spade". Even the author admits that this term has been around for over 500 years, and is a reference to the card. There is no connection AT ALL between the term and racism. Unless she's advocating that we rename the card and the digging implement as well, and ban the entire word from the English language, I'm not quite sure what her point is with this one.

"Spook" is an ancient germanic word that simply means "ghost". Hell, it still exists in German today as "spuk", in Dutch as "spook", in Norweigian as "spjok" and in a bunch of other languages as well. It was introduced into English more than a thousand years ago, and has NOTHING to do with racism or black people.

Basically, the original articles author is an uneducated idiot who is spreading Internet discussion board memes as if they were fact.

[KamaAina]

8. There is a term "jigaboo".

Used mostly in Louisiana as an N-word equivalent, and shortened to "jig".

[Xithras]

13. True, but there's no relationship between "jigaboo" and "the jig is up".

For what it's worth "Jigaboo" is actually a Bantu word of African origin. It means someone who is servile and obeys commands. It was spread because, in the days of slave importation, "jigaboo" slaves were the most highly sought after for personal servants and house servants, and they commanded the highest price. It eventually became synonymous with "house n-word" and much later a slur against black people in general.

And it still had nothing to do with the term "the jig is up".

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

73. A "jig" is also an Scots-Irish folk dance

Which also makes far more sense in saying "The jig is up".

[Xithras]

118. Which, interestingly, also derives from the same root

The word ultimately stems from the latin 'jocus', which means fun, gag, play, or game. The only difference is that the Latin 'jocus' evolved into the French 'giguer', which means "dance". That word eventually made it into England (thanks William!), and the English-speaking world shortened it to 'gig' (and then, because English is an atrocious language when it comes to spelling consistency, and because the English have traditionally despised all things French, they changed the spelling to to 'jig').

Joke and jig (as in scam) derive from the direct translation of 'jocus' from Latin into English. Jig (as in dance) derives from the evolution of 'jocus' from Gallic vulgar Latin into the language we now call "French".

[Facility Inspector]

9. Thank you voice of reason

perpetually offended people need something. I don't know what, but they need it.

[randys1]

26. Perpetually offended? Are you a minority or are you a white person therefore privileged?

Just curious, you dont have to answer, I am just curious when I see someone say something like this.

[Facility Inspector]

34. remain curious or do your research

there's a spreadsheet around here where you can connect the dots about anyone.

Plus, I probably don't buy into what you're selling.

[randys1]

39. So no, you arent. No wonder you can make such an obtuse statement.

[Facility Inspector]

84. There ain't no good guy

there ain't no bad guy

there's only you and me and we just disagree

[Gormy Cuss]

38. I'm "perpetually offended" by people who use that dismissive phrase

because it's a clever way of denying that prejudice exists.

[840high]

78. +1

[1StrongBlackMan]

102. Really? ...

perpetually offended people need something.

Wow.

[uppityperson]

10. Thanks for adding more info to some of those. I remember being instructed

by my parents about eenie meenie minie moe, that we catch a tiger or piggie by the toe.

[Xithras]

17. "Eenie meenie miney mo" actually IS racist. It's one of a handful she got right.

The cadence has apparently existed without racist connotations for many centuries and can be found in old Irish, Scottish, Cornish, and German texts. There's a theory that it actually developed in India and was carried to Europe by early merchants and traders, and that it isn't a European rhyme at all!

The "Eenie meenie miney mo" words, however, are American in origin, and were racist from the get-go. Even if you're replacing the n-word with "tiger", it doesn't erase the history of the rhyme. If you want to say the rhyme, pick a version that doesn't start with Eenie Meenie. Or better yet, just find a different rhyme.

[Nye Bevan]

21. So when my 6-year old nephew does "eenie meenie minie mo, catch a tiger by the toe"

I should tell him not to say that because years ago there was a different version of the poem that used a racist word instead of "tiger"?

[dumbcat]

24. I would say yes

he should learn another rhyme. The fact that tigers don't have "toes" is kinda a giveaway.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

54. Tigers certainly do have toes.

[tblue37]

56. Those are mongo "jelly beans," or "toe-beans." nt

[DirkGently]

58. Tigers don't have toes?

When did this happen? And for nursery rhyme purposes, this anatomical quibble is supposed to establish that the one racist version of this very old rhyme is the "real" one, somehow?

I'm sorry, but I hate this kind of obsessive language policing. It has nothing to do with any kind of cultural sensitivity and everything to do with telling people what they're allowed to say. It's ridiculous.

Seems to me that at one point racists spoiled a perfectly acceptable rhyme, and that the best thing to do with it is leave the racism out of it and go on about our business.

[gollygee]

69. It comes from a song from a minstrel show

Eenie Meenie Miney Moe alone is probably older, but the rest of the rhyme is from a minstrel show song from the very early 1900s.

[DirkGently]

70. It does not come from a minstrel show.

According to Wiki, the racist lines came from American schoolchildren (lovely) and were used in a song (likely in a minstrel type show as you mention) decades later.

This version was similar to that reported as the most common version among American schoolchildren in 1888.[10] It was used in the chorus of Bert Fitzgibbon's 1906 song "Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Mo":

Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Mo,
Catch a XXXXX by his toe,
If he won't work then let him go;
Skidum, skidee, skidoo.

So racist lines were inserted, and racist lines were removed. It was not a racist rhyme to begin with.

The first record of a similar rhyme is from about 1815, when children in New York City are said to have repeated the rhyme:

Hana, man, mona, mike;
Barcelona, bona, strike;
Hare, ware, frown, vanac;
Harrico, warico, we wo, wac.[3]
The "Hana, man" was found by Henry Bolton in the US, Ireland and Scotland in the 1880s but was unknown in England until later in the century.[3] Bolton also found a similar rhyme in German:

Ene, tene, mone, mei,
Pastor, lone, bone, strei,
Ene, fune, herke, berke,
Wer? Wie? Wo? Was?[3]
Variations of this rhyme, with the nonsense/counting first line have been collected since the 1820s, such as this Scottish one ..

Hickery Pickery, pease scon
Where will this young man gang?
He'll go east, he'll go west,
he'll go to the crow's nest.
Hickery Pickery, Hickery Pickery[6]
More recognizable as a variation, which even includes the 'toe' and 'olla' from Kipling's version is

Eenie, Meenie, Tipsy, toe;
Olla bolla Domino,
Okka, Pokka dominocha,
Hy! Pon! Tush!
This was one of many variants of "counting out rhymes" collected by Bolton in 1888.[7]

A Cornish version collected in 1882 runs:

Ena, mena, mona, mite,
Bascalora, bora, bite,
Hugga, bucca, bau,
Eggs, butter, cheese, bread.
Stick, stock, stone dead - OUT.[8]
One theory about the origins of the rhyme is that it is descended from Old English or Welsh counting, similar to the old Shepherd's count "Yan Tan Tethera" or the Cornish "Eena, mea, mona, mite".[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeny,_meeny,_miny,_moe

[gollygee]

83. Bert Fitzgibbons, who is listed in your link as the author, wrote minstrel shows

Lots of minstrel songs became popular with children, including this one.

And the rhyme is those words. That rhyme, about the toe and hollering, were from the minstrel show.

Yes, the specific four words "eenie meenie miney moe" are older. I read once that form of counting might be as old as Stonehenge. But the rhyme that children use is from a minstrel show.

[DirkGently]

85. Looks like Fitzgibbons' version had the toe, not the hollering.

This version was similar to that reported as the most common version among American schoolchildren in 1888. It was used in the chorus of Bert Fitzgibbon's 1906 song "Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Mo":

Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Mo,
Catch a XXXXX by his toe,
If he won't work then let him go;
Skidum, skidee, skidoo.

So what we have is an ancient rhyme, once appropriated by a writer of racist songs, morphing again and retaining only "catching by the toe" from the racist version.

Doesn't seem like the racist version should get to claim it for eternity.

[treestar]

94. We used that growing up

and had no idea, so how does it make it racist? It has to have racist intent. Changing it shows that the society is improving.

[Xithras]

30. Find a different one and teach it to him.

If your six year old nephew found a pointy white hood and started running around with it, wouldn't you stop him even though he didn't understand its meaning? A six year old singing eenie meenie minie mo should never be punished for doing so, but they SHOULD be redirected to more appropriate rhymes.

Honestly, the REAL problem is with the rhymes second line, "Catch a..." Changing one word doesn't mask the underlying meaning.

My wife, who is a kindergarten teacher, has been hearing this one lately. Don't know how widespread it is:

Eeny, meeny, miney, mot
put the baby on the pot
when he's done
wipe his bum
stick a diaper on the tot

That's just one example of the hundreds of variations that exist, that don't reference back to catching slaves.

[DirkGently]

61. But that was never "the underlying meaning."

That's the problem here. Something that went on for a long time at one point acquires a racist variation, so we're supposed to dump it on the historically incorrect theory that it's now always racist?

There are racist contortions of everything in our culture. That does not make everything "accidentally racist" as this idiotic article contends.

Origins[edit]
The first record of a similar rhyme is from about 1815, when children in New York City are said to have repeated the rhyme:

Hana, man, mona, mike;
Barcelona, bona, strike;
Hare, ware, frown, vanac;
Harrico, warico, we wo, wac.[3]
The "Hana, man" was found by Henry Bolton in the US, Ireland and Scotland in the 1880s but was unknown in England until later in the century.[3] Bolton also found a similar rhyme in German:

Ene, tene, mone, mei,
Pastor, lone, bone, strei,
Ene, fune, herke, berke,
Wer? Wie? Wo? Was?[3]
Variations of this rhyme, with the nonsense/counting first line have been collected since the 1820s, such as this Scottish one ..

Hickery Pickery, pease scon
Where will this young man gang?
He'll go east, he'll go west,
he'll go to the crow's nest.
Hickery Pickery, Hickery Pickery[6]
More recognizable as a variation, which even includes the 'toe' and 'olla' from Kipling's version is

Eenie, Meenie, Tipsy, toe;
Olla bolla Domino,
Okka, Pokka dominocha,
Hy! Pon! Tush!
This was one of many variants of "counting out rhymes" collected by Bolton in 1888.[7]

A Cornish version collected in 1882 runs:

Ena, mena, mona, mite,
Bascalora, bora, bite,
Hugga, bucca, bau,
Eggs, butter, cheese, bread.
Stick, stock, stone dead - OUT.[8]
One theory about the origins of the rhyme is that it is descended from Old English or Welsh counting, similar to the old Shepherd's count "Yan Tan Tethera" or the Cornish "Eena, mea, mona, mite".[3]

Another possibility is that British colonials returning from the Sub-Continent introduced a doggerel version of an Indian children's rhyme used in the game of carom billiards:

ubi eni mana bou,
baji neki baji thou,
elim tilim latim gou.[9]
The rhyme inspired the song "Eena Meena Deeka" in the 1957 Bollywood film Aasha.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeny,_meeny,_miny,_moe

[jonno99]

82. +1 nt

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

74. Except running around with a pointy white hood is still recognized as clearly racist

Someone at some point decided to change the rhyme so it wasn't offensive.

If changing one word doesn't suit you, why should we stop there? Eeny meenie miney should be banned altogether because "we know" what you "really mean".

We always said catch a pickle by the toe up here.

[SheilaT]

81. I'm old enough to recall the earlier version of eenie meenie miney mo.

And I recall quite clearly, when I was perhaps five or six, being instructed that we now caught a tiger by the toe. At the time it seemed sort of dumb, because given my age and that era, I didn't understand that the other word could be offensive. In my limited circle of friends, the new usage was pretty much instantly adopted.

Since I'm now 67 years old, that means the change was made more than 50 years ago, and I think as a counting rhyme it's perfectly okay.

I don't think I happen to know any other counting rhyme.

[trof]

113. In addition to 'eenie meeni' we did 'One Potato...'

(Counting off around the circle)
one potato
two potato
three potato
four

five potato
six potato
seven potato
more

o-u-t spells out
and
out
goes
YOU!

[Juicy_Bellows]

18. Thanks for taking the time to educate.

I appreciate it. It gets hard to drive when people are constantly tossing shit on your windshield.

Cheers!

[whatthehey]

19. Now now they are just being niggardly with the truth

Another supposedly horrifically racist term with no racial connotations, etymology or history whatsover.

[KamaAina]

20. A Washington, DC city councilmember created a huge uproar by using "niggardly"

a few years ago.

[randys1]

28. George Carlin would tell us not to discard words but discard from civility the assholes

who would use them improperly or PRETEND there is no problem like racism or history etc.


And, you attempted to educate some people about the importance of these words, but as you know by now, doing that here is almost a waste of time.

[whatthehey]

96. Except niggardly has none of those problems and is usually used quite properly.

[whatthehey]

95. Yes and I like Julian Bond's take on that.

"David Howard should not have quit. Mayor Williams should bring him back — and order dictionaries issued to all staff who need them."

[ChazII]

104. Thank you whatthehey

I remember when folks got worked up over that word a few years ago. Granted we don't hear it much but niggardly is one that folks should have in their vocabulary. I first learned the word in grade school (mid 60's to early 70's) but that might have been because I love to read.

[GreenEyedLefty]

35. This reminds me of the brouhaha over the word "niggardly."

Just because something "sounds like" it's racist doesn't mean it is indeed.

[GreenEyedLefty]

36. This reminds of the brouhaha over the word "niggardly."

Personally, I prefer "parsimonious" or "miserly."

[uponit7771]

45. The use of the term niggardly shouldn't raise any eyebrows?

[WinkyDink]

52. No, it should not. It doesn't stem from anything meaning "black."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/niggard

[cwydro]

37. Thank you for this.

I remember someone using the word "niggardly" on DU once, and there was a storm of outrage from the terminally ignorant.

[meow2u3]

42. Banning the word "spade" is pointless, since it's a type of shovel

Somehow, the Ace of Shovels doesn't sound right to me.

[hifiguy]

46. Thank you for bringing some facts and common sense.

[tblue37]

47. Re: "call a spade a spade"

An earlier expression of the notion, albeit in different form to that which we now use, comes from Nicolas Udall's 'Apophthegmes, that is to saie, prompte saiynges. First gathered by Erasmus' - translated in 1542 <emphasis added>:

"Philippus aunswered, that the Macedonians wer feloes of no fyne witte in their termes but altogether grosse, clubbyshe, and rusticall, as they whiche had not the witte to calle a spade by any other name then a spade."

This refers back to Plutarch's Apophthegmata.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/call-a-spade-a-spade.html

IOW, the Macedonians were so rustic and unrefined that they did not have a varied or sophisticated vocabulary. Instead of having a wealth of refined words to choose from, they had nothing to call their ordinary tools by except for their ordinary (i.e., vulgar) names.

Eventually, "calling a spade a spade" became a claim of integrity, when seeming to be a "man of the people" rather than a member of the elite became a desirable mask for those seeking the favor of the populace (to garner votes, for example), claiming to be an honest, plain-spoken man, one who "calls a spade a spade," rather than one of those "pointy-headed intellectuals" or one of those "nattering nabobs of negativism" who have all sorts of fancy-pants words for beating around the bush or snowing people with obscure language in order to confuse them and to pull a fast one on them.

(W's fake ranch, his fake Texas accent, and his pretense of always having to clear brush were all attempts to come across as such a plain man of the people rather than as the spoiled, well-connected rich kid he really was. Notice how his campaign used "intellectual" as a slur against both Gore and Kerry, as though being smart and educated were shameful. Of course, W had served his time at Ivy League schools, though his Yale undergrad degree and his Harvard MBA were almost certainly based on "gentleman's Cs" rather than on his academic performance.)

[treestar]

93. Thank you

I was believing it! We have to watch out on the internet.

We use "grandfather clause" all the time! It only means a change in the law does not affect people who were already operating under the prior law.

[TexasProgresive]

7. Sold down the river for sure but not so sure about peanut gallery

I think the theater reference about the balcony seats for African Americans is not quite correct. It probably is older as vaudeville and traveling shows that had no place for African Americans to sit. If they were present at all it was to serve the audience.

What's the origin of the expression "peanut gallery"?
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1538/whats-the-origin-of-the-expression-peanut-gallery
The '"no comment" shtick is relatively recent, coming from standup comics' attempts to put down hecklers. The "peanut gallery" has been used for some time to imply "the cheap seats." Today, balcony and mezzanine seats often go for more than main floor seats at the rear of the auditorium, because of their superior view. However, before microphones and opera glasses were common, balcony seats were the worst in the theater. The audiences in the cheap seats, typically lower class than the orchestra section, were the rowdiest in the theater, and in late 19th century vaudeville, disapproving audiences did more than just heckle the performers. In addition to the clearest view of the stage, patrons in the upper levels also had the clearest shot, and a bad performer would often find himself showered from the upper deck with the most common theater snack of the time, peanuts sold by the concessionaires. Players soon learned to play to the peanut gallery at the top of the theater, lest they learn firsthand where the name came from. Later on, the name was popularized by Buffalo Bob Smith, who chose to call his Howdy Doody audience the Peanut Gallery, presumably to emphasize the audience's cuteness, rather than their propensity to throw stuff at him. When I go to comedy clubs nowadays, I prefer to sit in the Guacamole Gallery. Standup comics, be warned.

[Igel]

22. That's certainly it's origin, "sold down the river."

But it's long since stopped meaning that and people have to be educated as to what the "real meaning" of the word means.

Rather like "educating" that the "real meaning" of starve just means "to die," because that's what it used to mean long before any of us were born.

Or that the word "lord" is actually the person who's in charge of making sure that the work crews are fed. Because the word started out as "loaf warden," in charge of assigning tasks and feeding the serfs on the crew.

"The loaf warden's prayer" doesn't have the same ring. Then again, it stopped meaning that before Chaucer's day. Still, if we want to swallow the "etymological fallacy", far be it from me from dictating another's stomach contents.

As some I know say, avoiding fallacies is a tough row to hoe.

Or, as my kids understand it, "a tough road to ho." Whatever that means.

But hey--authentic feelings, how dare we question what they know when they see it. Uh ...

[tblue37]

51. "Lord" and "Lady" =

hlaf weard (loaf ward/guardian)

and

hlaf dige (loaf-kneader--i.e., one who makes the bread--from the same OE root as to dig)

Over time, elision smoothed out many of the sounds to produce our modern words "lord" and "lady."

Here's another you might like:
Richard =
reich weard (guardian of the reich/kingdom)

Etymologies are just plain fun. (The name "George," amusingly enough, actually does refer to a man of the earth, a farmer--from the Greek geo, so Maybe W was simply trying to live up to his name when he was always out there clearing brush and pretending to "work the land" on his ranch.)

I am amused by the way people get confused over the phrase "toe the line," thinking it is "tow the line," because they have lost the idea of racers toeing the line at the start of a race--i.e., not violating the rules or transgressing the proper boundaries.

Or how about the humorous line, "You've got another think coming (meaning, "You'd better think about that again!&quot ," which many have misinterpreted as "You've got another thing coming"--which makes no sense at all.

[DirkGently]

57. "Another thing coming" makes better sense than the original.

It may be a bastardization of the original, but one reason it's stuck is because it works. Expect one thing; get another. It conveys the same meaning, but loses the pretty-weird notion of having "a think."

And there's that Judas Priest song.

It deserves to win.

"Tow the line" does crack me up though. I can see the image people have in their heads, and it sort of works too -- towing some kind of weight for whoever's giving the orders.

"Cow towing," for "kowtowing" I do not understand. You are being subservient to someone in a way that involves ... dragging a large bovine somewhere?

[tblue37]

62. Not really, because the line "You've got another think coming"

is just the latter half of a comment like, "If that's what you think, then you've got another think coming"--meaning think again, because you are wrong.

<SNIP>

But say it or swallow it, "another think coming" is the original version. It's a general-purpose warning, more than a century old, that means "think again," or, more directly, "you're wrong" <emphasis added>."

Google Books turns up several early examples: In the 1914 novel "Boltwood of Yale," for instance, one man says "I think we'll wait"; the other replies, "Then you've got another think coming to you." H.L. Mencken, in the 1921 edition of "The American Language," cites it as an example of how words shift parts of speech: "The verb to think, in 'he had another think coming,' becomes a noun."

And by 1932, "another think" was widespread enough to earn a reproach in "Words Confused and Misused," by M.H. Weseen: "This misuse of think as a noun is creeping into the speech of many who seem unaware that it is ungrammatical."

But Weseen didn't mean you should use thing instead. That alternative version had already appeared in print - the Oxford English Dictionary finds "another thing coming" as early as 1919 - but it arose, the OED warns, "from misapprehension of to have another think coming <emphasis added>."

<SNIP>

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/05/04/the_think_thing/?page=full

[DirkGently]

64. Actually, the fact it was originally ungrammatical slang explains the

conversion to a more logical construction all the more. "Another think coming" is kind of an awkward pun.

"If that's what you think, you've got another 'thing' coming" conveys the same meaning without the awkward joke about having "a think," which apparently was funny at one time but now just sounds weird.

So one kind of slang begat another that is more grammatically correct and makes more logical sense.

It's clearly an improvement.

[tblue37]

65. But "thing" just doesn't make sense in that context. What "thing"? There was no

"thing" in the first place, so what would "thing" refer to?

[DirkGently]

66. The "thing" is that which you thought.

Last edited Sun Sep 6, 2015, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)

The whole original joke / saying is actually avoiding the object of whatever the person was thinking, right?

"If that's what you think ..." The more straightforward way to conclude would be with a different object for whatever the person was incorrectly thinking.

"You thought *that* but what's going to happen is *this.* You expected one thing, but you will find another thing."

The original joke was to subvert the expected way to conclude by turning "think" into a noun, which is fine, and I'd agree the modern bastardization loses the joke.

But it doesn't lose the meaning; on the contrary, it dumbs the joke down by replacing the "another think" with the much more pedestrian but logical "thing" the person has coming in place of the thing they expected.

[Generic Other]

107. An impasse has been reached...

Other idioms in English are so opaque semantically that they have undergone phonological modifications possible only because speakers could not even identify the component words. While some speakers say, "if you think X, you have another thing coming," other speakers swear the correct form is "...you have another think coming," each group doubting the very existence of the other dialect group until confronted with a living member of it. (Nicolas Ruwet and John A. Goldsmith, Syntax and Human Experience)

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/68801/which-is-correct-another-think-coming-or-another-thing-coming

[DirkGently]

109. Well now that's interesting.

Thanks for showing me this. As discussed, I think the malapropism works better than the original, but then I might have another think coming.

[Liberal Veteran]

72. Don't you mean þing?

Bring back the thorn!

[Mister Ed]

75. I think kow-tow was originally a Chinese term for genuflection. n/t

[DirkGently]

76. Precisely. No cows or towlines are involved! :) n/t

[Nye Bevan]

16. "The word 'picnic' originated with crowds gathering to witness lynchings"- Snopes says FALSE

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 1999]
Although not taught in American learning institutions and literature, it is noted in most Black history professional circles and literature that the origin of the term "picnic" derives from the acts of lynching African-Americans. The word "picnic" is rooted from the whole theme of "Pick A Nigger." This is where individuals would "pic" a Black person to lynch and make this into a family gathering. There would be music and a "picnic." ("Nic" being the white acronym for "nigger.&quot Scenes of this were depicted in the movie "Rosewood." We should choose to use the word "barbecue" or "outing" instead of the word "picnic."

Origins: Specious etymologies seem to be all the rage of late, and this dubious claim about 'picnic' fits that trend. You'll be heartened to know 'picnic' has nothing to do with crowds gathering to witness the lynching of blacks (or anyone else, for that matter) in America.

'Picnic' began life as a 17th-century French word: it wasn't even close to being an American invention. A 1692 edition of Origines de la Langue Françoise de Ménage mentions 'piquenique' as being of recent origin and marks the first appearance of the word in print. As for how the French came by this new term, it was likely invented by joining the common form of the verb 'piquer' (meaning "to pick" or "peck&quot with 'nique,' possibly either a Germanic term meaning "worthless thing" or merely a nonsense rhyming syllable coined to fit the first half of this new palate-pleaser.

The fact that this etymology is spurious hasn't deterred some from being offended by it, as noted in this excerpt from a 2000 National Post article:
Meanwhile, things are not peachy on the campus of SUNY/Albany. The university wanted to honour baseball legend Jackie Robinson by having a picnic. But the university's equity office said this must not occur because the word "picnic" referred originally to gatherings held to lynch Blacks. In fact, as one of their own English professors (rather less committed to historical revisionism than RMC's Dr. Robinson) pointed out, the word "picnic" actually comes from a 17th-century French word that denotes a party at which everyone brings food. But Zaheer Mustafa, the equity officer, nevertheless decreed that "picnic" not be used because "the point is — the word offends." So the university decided to call it an "outing." Then, homosexual students took objection to that, and SUNY decided to publicize the event without using any noun to describe it.

http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/picnic.asp

[Xithras]

32. I remember how aggravated I got when that happened.

I had just started teaching occasional adjunct classes in California when the thing happened at SUNY. I still remember the huge debate it sparked at colleges nationwide, and the overwhelming consensus of the faculty my college was that SUNY dropped the ball badly. As educators, our job is to EDUCATE. When confronted with something that is an absolute falsehood, our priority should be to set the record straight so that students are arguing from positions of fact and knowledge, instead of positions built on falsehoods and ignorance.

By decreeing that "picnic" was offensive and banning the word, the university allowed ignorance to win. If a student is offended by a word because they have a false understanding of a words origins and historical usage, the response of an educator should be to EDUCATE them about the true history of the word to help relieve their offense. Instead, SUNY chose to cave to the offended and allowed the ignorance to perpetuate.

Nobody has a right to deny facts, history, and truth simply because they are offended by it.

[tblue37]

53. + a brazillion! nt

[LiberalAndProud]

25. Please stop.

I am beginning to resent the sanitation and constriction of our language because of our unsavory history. It's foolishness, in my opinion.

[Nye Bevan]

29. Please don't use the word "unsavory". It rhymes with "fun slavery", so is best avoided.

[romanic]

60. ...

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

lmao you slay me sometimes Nye.

[grossproffit]

91. Oh dear. I imagine that's next on the list of no no's.

[Blue_In_AK]

106. Thank you.

You're funny.

[LittleBlue]

27. That doesn't sound right

. “The peanut gallery”: Just a dismissive term for hecklers or critics, right? Wrong. You’ll probably never use this phrase in reference to a group of black people again once you know its history. It originally referred to the balconies of segregated theaters, where African Americans had to sit. (Why “peanut”? Apparently, peanuts were introduced to America during the slave trade and thus became associated with blacks.)...

Wikipedia says

The least expensive snack served at the theatre would often be peanuts, which the patrons would sometimes throw at the performers on stage to show their disapproval. The phrases "no comments from the peanut gallery" or "quiet in the peanut gallery" are extensions of the name.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_gallery

[pnwmom]

31. Doesn't the "peanut gallery" refer to cheap seats? Even in parts of the country with very few

African Americans, like Vermont, this term was in common use.

[mia]

40. First learned about the 'peanut gallery' from "The Howdy Doody Show"'

I always thought that 'peanuts' referred to kids. I wanted to be in the 'peanut gallery, back then. As I look at this show today, I notice that there are no children of color on the show. I'm starting to get it.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

90. Yeah, Howdy was Grand Dragon of the Buffalo Klan

[Orrex]

116. The preferred term is "Bison Klan," you brute.

[Heeeeers Johnny]

41. 'Jimmies' is racist also

Oh, wait, maybe not...

The jimmies story Can an ice cream topping be racist?

When I mentioned jimmies, the long-established localism for chocolate sprinkles, in a recent column, it was just as a passing example; I didn’t mean to reopen an etymological can of worms. But a few days later, along came an e-mail from Ron Slate of Milton, repeating the rumor that has dogged our candy terminology. “My mother told us never to use the word ‘jimmies’ because it is an epithet for African-Americans,” he wrote. “So we always said ‘sprinkles.’ ”


Even before that tale got abroad, jimmies was trailing clouds of factoid and fancy. Its origins are murky, so — like “the whole nine yards” and “the real McCoy” — it attracts just-so stories, some plausible and some less so. At the “Boston English” section of the website UniversalHub, commenters will tell you that jimmies are named for the Jimmy Fund, the children’s cancer charity; for a kid named Jimmy who got them on his ice cream as a birthday treat (“they’re Jimmy’s”); for a mayor named Jim Conelson, or a Jimmy O’Connell who was extra generous with sprinkles; and for a guy who (maybe) ran the chocolate-sprinkles machine at the Just Born candy factory.

Article @ http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2011/03/13/the_jimmies_story/

[tblue37]

55. But if you call them "sprinkles," someone will think you intend a reference to

some sort of sexual fetish.

[KamaAina]

67. Nice post, Annie!

[lunatica]

43. I suppose you think all blacks and whites know these are racist terms

Really?

[KamaAina]

44. That's precisely the point. Hardly anyone does.

[DirkGently]

48. That's not the consensus on "peanut gallery."

It comes from vaudeville, and although there is some basis to connect it to segregation, that is not the consensus opinion.

Those who typically inhabited the cheap seats were known to be rowdy, and free with their constructive criticism of the show, which would often be expressed in physical terms – such as by throwing anything conveniently at hand. As peanuts were a common concession snack for vaudeville shows, unpopular performers would often find themselves pelted with the easy-to-hurl, edible projectiles, not unlike The Beatles during their 1964 U.S. tour. (See: When the Beatles Were Pelted with Jelly Beans)

Others disagree, in part, with the preceding class-based, rather than racial, claim. They note that in the past, cheap balcony seats were often reserved for, or largely made up of, African American patrons. Thus, since the phrase implies that the opinions expressed by those from the gallery were unsolicited, unwarranted and unhelpful, the phrase also connotes something negative about those giving them, purported to be African Americans.

That said, the Online Etymology Dictionary remains agnostic, as does the Oxford English Dictionary and most etymologists, on whether it truly originally had anything to do with race instead of simply a reference to social class, in this case referring to poor people in general inhabiting these cheap seats. The Online Etymology Dictionary traces the expression “peanut gallery” to 1874, while the Oxford English Dictionary notes that it was recorded as early as 1876, in the Placerville, California Mountain Democrat, where the writer intoned, “as a bid for applause from the political pit and peanut gallery it was a masterpiece.”

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2015/03/origin-phrase-peanut-gallery/

Also, blame Howdy Doody and Charlie Brown:

But the fact that “peanut gallery” is still part of our common vocabulary is almost certainly due to the Howdy Doody Show, an immensely popular children’s TV show in the 1950s. Howdy Doody (a marionette), Buffalo Bob (who provided Howdy’s voice), Clarabell the Clown, Princess Summerfall Winterspring and the rest of the cast performed with a studio audience of children seated in bleachers known as “the Peanut Gallery.”

Incidentally, so popular was “Howdy Doody” and his “Peanut Gallery” among a generation of children that in 1950, when United Features decided to syndicate Charles Schulz’s comic strip, then known as “Li’l Folk,” they insisted, over Schulz’s vigorous objections, on changing its name to “Peanuts.”

http://www.word-detective.com/2009/07/peanut-gallery/

I saw someone on some site also claiming the other day that "Hush Puppies" also has a dark racial origin, in that runaway slaves supposedly threw them to pursuing hounds. There is no evidence to support that is actually the case either.

[smirkymonkey]

86. I always thought "peanut gallery" was a group of kids

or people acting like kids. I suppose I got that idea from the Howdy Doody Show. I have never once heard of the idea that the phrase had any racist connotations.

[DirkGently]

87. I've heard it as synonymous for "from the cheap seats."

Howdy Doody and the Peanuts cartoon (who knew?) seem to have established it as referring to children.

The article is pretty careless in characterizing the origins of some of these phrases as being "accidentally racist" when used far outside the context of any kind of racial sentiment. It's also flatly wrong on many of the origins it cites. The "research" appears to be right on the level of a Facebook post.

But the origins of idioms and jokes and nursery rhymes are interesting, and it's true that many of them have older meanings, often harsher, than anyone would expect.

[annabanana]

97. It was on Howdy Doody!. . .n/t

[LiberalElite]

49. I have heard of some of these as being racist

but I didn't know about #1 or #4. I had heard about "the jig is up" and "eenie meenie miney moe."

[WinkyDink]

50. Baby Boomers learned "the Peanut Gallery" from the show "Pinky Lee." NPR can just get over it.

"The on-stage audience, or "Peanut Gallery", usually composed almost entirely of pre-adolescent children who were coached by a staff member, ..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinky_Lee

And "The Howdy Doody Show," as posted above.

[KamaAina]

68. NPR only called out the ice cream truck jingle.

The author took that and ran with it.

[Warpy]

59. Most of those are wrong

because the words existed before race was ever applied to them.

For instance, "spook" is adopted from the Dutch "spooc," which means ghost and has existed since the Middle Ages, before anti black slang in the US was thought of.

"The jig is up" means the music has finished and the fiddler wants to be paid. It's also a very old expression that has absolutely nothing to do with "jigaboo," a word that mimicked what African languages sounded like to ignorant outsiders.

"Calling a spade a spade" has to do more with card playing than 1920s racism.

"Eeny meeny" has been updated to the point that I haven't heard a kid use the original since the 1950s--and I didn't leave the south until the late 60s.

This article was written by an ignorant person sniffing out filth where none exists.

[WillowTree]

63. When I hear the term "peanut gallery" I think of the Howdy Doody Show.

And I dare you to fine an African American face in any pictures of that daily group. (Actually, there were a few AA kids in the Howdy Doody peanut gallery occasionally, but by and large, it was an overwhelmingly WASPy group.)

[tularetom]

71. I don't want to comment on this thread

I'm afraid I might inadvertently say something that someone might consider racist.

Or sexist. Or homophobic. Or ageist, lookist, weightist, heightist, smartist or dumbist.

This stuff is getting out of hand. If somebody is determined to be offended, they are going to be offended.

[840high]

79. Well said. If you look hard

enough you cam be offended daily.

[840high]

77. Peanuts, peanuts.

[MADem]

80. I think some of those examples are not terribly accurate.

Some of the comments point out the errors.

[kiva]

88. Badly written and researched.

"This hasn’t been proved beyond a doubt"
"many believe"
"an ugly, if debatable, past"
"It may have its origins"

As people have pointed out on this thread, most of this is completely made up. When we wonder why people are so badly educated today, we can look at websites like this as well as Fox news.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

89. They also left room for the "neener neener neener, you're a bad person if you use this" scold.

The whole thing reminds me of the Marmaduke cartoon where Marmaduke is looking through a dictionary and the wife tells the husband "When he finds out what nincompoop means, you're in trouble!".

[treestar]

92. If people don't know what it originally meant

They can't be racist when using it. Never knew that about the peanut gallery. I thought of it as similar to the groundlings in the Globe Theater where Shakespeare's plays were performed during his day.

[Quantess]

98. I think it's enlightening to learn the etimology of these phrases.

But now that I know how these expressions came about, why would it be racist to keep on using them as usual?

Isn't it positive to keep alive the awareness of racist history? How is acknowledging America's racist history a negative thing?

[DavidDvorkin]

100. Accurate etymology, not the fake kind.

[Eleanors38]

99. Then there is Saturday Night Special which gained rather recent currency...

in the latter 1960s when the more recent attempts to keep cheap handguns out of the hands of blacks took place. The "Special" refered to the periodic upgrades of established gun calibers (.38 became .38 Special; .44 became .44 Special). Some took to parodying this practice by referencing cheap, low caliber handguns as "Saturday Night" Specials, borrowing the term from a rip-roaring time in the Quarters, as in "We're going to have a hot time, like n-----town on a Saturday night!." Inevitably, the two expressions were combined. Fortunately, the expression is losing currency as most armorers recognize that even cheap, low-powered handguns (like Jennings or Raven) are safe to operate and reasonably reliable. See: Wikipedia for additional comments.

[noiretextatique]

101. racist imagery was used in advertising...someone please "parse" that

or correct it or whatever. the fact is, whether imagery or speech or tradition or whatever...racism is embedded in the culture.

[Major Nikon]

103. Howdy Doody circa 1940 1950s

[d_r]

105. I didn't know that

the phrase "going Dutch" was an ethnic slur for years. Same with "getting Gypped."

[KamaAina]

108. And "welshing" on a bet.

And "Indian giver". And so on.

[Spider Jerusalem]

110. Some of those are just painfully fucking stupid, sorry.

"To call a spade a spade" has been in English use since the 1500's (and was in Latin before that); it has nothing whatever to do with "spade" as slang for "black" (and I don't think anyone actually says "spade" in that sense, anymore, outside of maybe James Ellroy novels).

"The jig is up" has nothing at all to do with lynching. OED says: "jig - n. 5. A piece of sport, a joke; a jesting matter, a trifle; a sportive trick or cheat. the jig is up (or over) = ‘the game is up’, it is all over.", with the earliest cited use in this sense from 1592.

"Spook" has meant "ghost" since long before it was used as a slur; attested in American English since c. 1800 and in Dutch and Low German going back to the Middle Ages.

[raccoon]

111. Thanks to the DU posters who pointed out errors and fallacies in the article!

Journalism ain't what it used to be. If indeed it ever was.

[GoneOffShore]

114. More BS in that link than a little.

And the discussion has attracted a lot of people who don't know history or etymology.

[Romulox]

115. It's sad that ignorance (and fantasy etymology) is so much stronger than knowledge.

This thread is full of so much incorrect information that the OP should consider self-deleting.

[KamaAina]

117. (sigh) The Root usually has good stuff about race.