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Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 09:39 PM Sep 2015

Europe Invaded by Mostly "Regime Change" Refugees

http://www.ipsnews.net/2015/09/europe-invaded-mostly-by-regime-change-refugees/

UNITED NATIONS, Sep 3 2015 (IPS) - The military conflicts and political instability driving hundreds of thousands of refugees into Europe were triggered largely by U.S. and Western military interventions for regime change – specifically in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria (a regime change in-the-making).

The United States was provided with strong military support by countries such as Germany, Britain, France, Italy and Spain, while the no-fly zone to oust Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi was led by France and the UK in 2011 and aided by Belgium, Denmark, Norway and Canada, among others.

“They (European leaders) stay silent about the military intervention and regime change in which Europeans were major actors, interventions that have torn the refugees’ homelands apart and resulted in civil war and state collapse.” -- James A. Paul, former executive director of the New York-based Global Policy Forum"

......................

"Official discourse in Europe frames the civil wars and economic turmoil in terms of fanaticism, corruption, dictatorship, economic failures and other causes for which they have no responsibility, Paul said.

“They stay silent about the military intervention and regime change in which Europeans were major actors, interventions that have torn the refugees’ homelands apart and resulted in civil war and state collapse.”

The origins of the refugees make the case clearly: Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan are major sources, he pointed out.

Also many refugees come from the Balkans where the wars of the 1990s, again involving European complicity, shredded those societies and led to the present economic and social collapse, he noted.

Vijay Prashad, professor of international studies at Trinity College, Connecticut, and the George and Martha Kellner Chair in South Asian History, told IPS the 1951 U.N. Refugee Convention was dated.

He said the Covenant “was written up for the time of the Cold War – when those who were fleeing the so-called Unfree World were to be welcomed to the Free World”.

He said many Third World states refused this covenant because of the horrid ideology behind it."

______________________________

Of all the Western nations responsible for these regime change refugees, only Germany seems to be taking full responsibility for these casualties of never ending war, announcing today a commitment to $8 billion for a comprehensive resettlement program, a budget that is even more than would be required for the 30,000 refugees already in Germany just these past days and given refugee sanctuary legal status.

Praise to Germany.
22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Europe Invaded by Mostly "Regime Change" Refugees (Original Post) Fred Sanders Sep 2015 OP
I posted that last week malaise Sep 2015 #1
The thing is what Germany has reaped is a treasure trove of grateful and obviously very tough new Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #2
How ironic that Germany played no part in the illegal invasion and occupation n/t malaise Sep 2015 #3
Germany has learned some painful lessons from a painful history and is not about to repeat the mistakes Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #4
Germany has the second highest median age jberryhill Sep 2015 #7
Why did it upset some? Whenever our Nations insert themselves onto arthritisR_US Sep 2015 #5
Those who buy the exceptional rubbish malaise Sep 2015 #6
Skirting responsibility seems to be on the rise and it also seems to arthritisR_US Sep 2015 #8
Hate enriches some folks malaise Sep 2015 #9
It sure does. I'm sick of fighting with the all lives matter group when they feel arthritisR_US Sep 2015 #12
You see that is their malaise Sep 2015 #14
As a white woman, I have to agree with you. nt arthritisR_US Sep 2015 #21
Tell me if I am wrong RobertEarl Sep 2015 #10
The USA won't take more because they think Isis plants will be flamingdem Sep 2015 #11
I say bring them here Abouttime Sep 2015 #15
I second that motion flamingdem Sep 2015 #22
Cucumbers have now officially killed more Americans in America than propaganda bogeyman ISIS. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #19
Oddly enough Syrians are a lot like you and me. They don't like life under a dictator. Who would? pampango Sep 2015 #13
The surrounding non-democratic countries provided weapons and footsoldiers CJCRANE Sep 2015 #16
Juan Cole thinks it was primarily a popular uprising: "spontaneous, indigenous, centered on pampango Sep 2015 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author CJCRANE Sep 2015 #18
I've been waiting to see "the origins of the refugees make the case clearly: mnhtnbb Sep 2015 #20

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
2. The thing is what Germany has reaped is a treasure trove of grateful and obviously very tough new
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 09:46 PM
Sep 2015

consumers and workers and professionals and...the energy!!

Economic science teaches unassailably that immigration is a boost to any economy, even in circumstances such as this....to me the greatest natural resource gifted to the planet is people.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
4. Germany has learned some painful lessons from a painful history and is not about to repeat the mistakes
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 09:52 PM
Sep 2015

any time soon....Germany can not afford the luxury of amnesia.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
7. Germany has the second highest median age
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 10:29 PM
Sep 2015

46.1 years.

Even if they suddenly increased their fertility, they would have difficulty supporting an aging population.

Having an influx of motivated young people is a good deal for them.

arthritisR_US

(7,288 posts)
5. Why did it upset some? Whenever our Nations insert themselves onto
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 10:16 PM
Sep 2015

other nations, our shortsightedness always comes back to bite us in the ass, not to mention the destruction we reap on so many innocents.

arthritisR_US

(7,288 posts)
8. Skirting responsibility seems to be on the rise and it also seems to
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 10:33 PM
Sep 2015

be increasing fear and hate of others. We mustn't forget our humanity, not when we need it now the most we ever have.

malaise

(269,054 posts)
9. Hate enriches some folks
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 10:38 PM
Sep 2015

Ask the Confederate morons, the RW fundies, Rush Scumbaugh, RW talk radio and the anti-Muslim posse.

arthritisR_US

(7,288 posts)
12. It sure does. I'm sick of fighting with the all lives matter group when they feel
Tue Sep 8, 2015, 03:49 AM
Sep 2015

to realize that all lives aren't being honoured and protected equally. It's time for some of us to wake the hell up and work to fix what our country's do in our names.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
10. Tell me if I am wrong
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 11:17 PM
Sep 2015

I see these refugees as people who don't want war and will not participate in making war. They are peace loving individuals, so, instead of taking up arms are turning the other cheek and seeking peace.

Meanwhile our military is dropping bombs and giving away weapons.

These people have no choice but to run from our weapons.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
11. The USA won't take more because they think Isis plants will be
Tue Sep 8, 2015, 12:49 AM
Sep 2015

among them. There is some reason for caution but I am guessing it's more about the next election.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
13. Oddly enough Syrians are a lot like you and me. They don't like life under a dictator. Who would?
Tue Sep 8, 2015, 05:52 AM
Sep 2015

When the Arab Spring broke out in 2011, suddenly it seemed that dictators might be a thing of the past, as they should be.

Tunisia's dictator ran away rather than use the army to stay in power. Libya's dictator used the army but the UN authorized and intervention that neutralized his military advantage over the people. Egypt's dictator couldn't use the full power of his army to stay in power. He was ousted, then elections, then a new dictator. Syria's dictator has used the full power of his army to stay in power - as his father before him had done - resulting in a civil war and refugees from that civl war.

It is certainly true that it takes two sides, at least, for there to be a civil war. King Assad II's decision to use the army to hold onto power was not enough to create a civil war. If his military had been quickly successful at repressing the demonstrations - like King Assad I was in 1982 - there would have been no civil war. Was the popular resistance enhanced because many saw the removal of dictators in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt as a signal that it might work in Syria this time? Or was Assad II initially not as brutal at employing his military as his father had been?

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
16. The surrounding non-democratic countries provided weapons and footsoldiers
Tue Sep 8, 2015, 07:09 AM
Sep 2015

so it wasn't necessarily a popular uprising.

The same happened with the intervention in Libya.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
17. Juan Cole thinks it was primarily a popular uprising: "spontaneous, indigenous, centered on
Tue Sep 8, 2015, 07:32 AM
Sep 2015
dissatisfied youth".

For sure, weapons and foot soldiers came from other countries to support all sides adding to the descent into civil war.

Response to pampango (Reply #17)

mnhtnbb

(31,392 posts)
20. I've been waiting to see "the origins of the refugees make the case clearly:
Tue Sep 8, 2015, 10:21 AM
Sep 2015

Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan are major sources,"

which means the US and other European nations that participated in destabilizing the Middle East
have a lot to do with creating the conditions that cause all these people to become refugees.

Does anyone else remember reading about the more than million Iraqis that fled to Syria after
GWB started that war?

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