If your first reaction to shootings is.....

[kpete]

[Skittles]

1. it means you're a gun humping coward

yes indeed

[PowerToThePeople]

6. I second that motion.

[-none]

2. You are being too nice.

MY response "is Fucked Up!"

[RobertEarl]

3. What are you all afraid of?

Is it because the government and the police can't protect you and show no sign of taking actions to protect you from being shot by some gun-toting crazy person, that you think you may become the next victim of gun violence that destroys your life, your dreams, and your family?

You should be afraid.

[Binkie The Clown]

4. I refuse to live my life in fear. That's a Republican thing.

And it's an attitude that leads to irrational behavior.

[RobertEarl]

5. You think you can't be murdered?

Anyone one of us is the next victim.

Being afraid is a rational response. Being afraid of another NRA supported mass murderer is quite natural and could end up saving lives. So don't hand me this you are not in fear, unless you are irrational.

[Todays_Illusion]

8. What is the payoff for all that fear? I have read that it cripples judgment. n/t

[RobertEarl]

9. Payoff?

You are inspired to do what you can to make sure it doesn't happen to you or any other innocent person.

Fear is a healthy and natural component of life. Otherwise we'd all just take flying leaps, eh?

Indeed, it seems the shooters have no fear. So they end up committing their irrational acts.

[Todays_Illusion]

12. I disagree, a natural response to actual danger catalyzes protective action, being fearful doesn't.

Of course fearfulness is pushed as a control measure because of the insecurity and bad judgment it can generate.
Like lets all get behind this Iraq fiasco.

[RobertEarl]

16. Hey, I am not afraid to admit fear

And I'm a big, old man. I don't go around pretending fear is just a word.

Your Mileage May Vary. = YMMV

These days the real danger of being shot is something to fear. Don't be ashamed of fear, or of being fearful. Fear is natural and rational. Seems only shooters are the only ones not in fear of being shot. Seems they ask for it.

[Todays_Illusion]

21. I don't think being aware of ones limitations or realized inability to respond successfully

should properly be called being fearful, caution and thoughtful awareness are fine things. I would guess that is what you feel not fear.

[RobertEarl]

25. Wrong.

I fear crazy, non-fearful gun owners.

I probably can shoot better than you ever could. So you can tell I'm not fearful of guns, just those that use guns without fear. Those types are crazy.

[Todays_Illusion]

26. I just can't take all that fear seriously, sorry. nt

[Skittles]

33. that's the NRA wet dream

everyone paranoid, everyone armed

that is one SICK society

[GGJohn]

15. The NRA supports mass murderer's?

Care to provide a link to that wild claim?

[RobertEarl]

18. NRA did support that shooter

But only right up to the point he pulled the trigger.

Then like the chickenshits the NRA are, they hid away and allowed the innocents to be slaughtered. Fuck the NRA.

[GGJohn]

19. Was the shooter a law abiding citizen up until he committed the murders? eom.

[RobertEarl]

23. According to the NRA he was.

And they supported him owning all those weapons.

But now that he used those weapons, the NRA is pissing their pants hiding in the corner.

Fuck the NRA. The NRA supports shooters. ]

You do know they ban carry at the NRA meetings, right? Isn't that special! Carry anywhere you want, but not at an NRA meeting!

[branford]

27. No, the shooter was a law abiding citizen up until the shooting

according to the criminal codes of every jurisdiction in the country. The NRA is not the government, and has no power to determine who is or is not a convicted felon.

See, we have this quaint notions of innocent until proven guilty and due process in the USA, and people are not denied constitutional rights (or much else) unless and until there's a proper adjudication.

Moreover, neither the NRA nor any other gun rights organization is under any threat. In fact, because the reactions like yours and many other here, no less demands for gun control by the president, the organizations memberships are swelling and they are reaping a fundraising windfall (and will also likely result in another spurt of firearm purchases across the country).

Lastly, let me disabuse you of the myth that carry is not permitted at NRA meetings. Although I'm neither a member nor supporter of the organization, this claim has been repeatedly debunked. The only time that legal carry is sometimes not permitted at NRA functions is when a particular venue doesn't permit carrying of firearms, which at times occurs at their conventions because they need such large and varied venues for their events, and the NRA always complies with local laws and regulations concerning firearms, even when they oppose them.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions about firearms, the NRA or anything else, but you should at least be accurate in your claims if you intend to offer any criticisms.

[RobertEarl]

28. The Navy bans guns aboard ships, too

We make sure a car driver is licensed. We test to make sure they know what they are doing. The NRA is against making sure gun owners prove they know what they are doing with a gun. Fuck the NRA.

The NRA's irrational fear of losing their precious guns is what's wrong and why so many innocents have been killed. Remove the NRA's irrational fear and we'd have sensible gun laws.

Fuck the NRA. They are partly responsible for the deaths of many innocents.

[GGJohn]

31. The Navy does not ban guns aboard ships,

they're kept in a small arms locker.
Dude, can't you get anything right?

[branford]

34. "Fuck the NRA" is not a substantive, no less persuasive, argument for gun control (or anything else)

First, despite your unusual hostility, I see that you really didn't contest the vast majority of my post.

Your Navy and driver examples are not comparable to firearms. As indicated elsewhere, firearms are indeed available aboard ship with certain rules. More importantly, people voluntarily forfeit or curtail certain constitutional rights upon joining or serving in the armed forced. This is not punitive, and all rights are restored when off-duty or upon discharge.

Similarly, a driver's license is a privilege, and does not have nearly the level of protection and scrutiny involving potential infringements on constitutional rights such as the ownership and possession of firearms.

[RobertEarl]

36. Heh

Fuck the NRA. If they could get rid of their irrational fears then we'd have more sensible gun control.

As it is, the NRA is partly responsible for the deaths of many innocents.

You have admitted that gun control laws are sensible and reasonable, yet the NRA is against sensible and reasonable laws because the NRA is irrational.

Fuck the NRA. Get the NRA out of the way and the country can make progress.

[branford]

37. No, some gun control proposals warrant more consideration.

I don't own any guns, and am probably the closest thing to being a "moderate" in this discussion here on DU.

Besides correcting basic inaccuracies, I simply don't understand the myopic focus on the NRA.

They have about 5 million members out of 80-100+ million legal gun owners in the USA. More than one out of every three Americans legally owns a firearm, including many Democrats, and the NRA represents a mere 5-6% of them. Their advocacy would be absolutely meaningless if not for the fact that a great many Americans, gun owners and non-gun owning gun rights supporters alike, did not agree with their positions, in whole or in part.***

NRA-ILA donations are also vastly overstated and easily confirmable with public records. In any event, the gun control lobby has more than ample funding, including a dedicated billionaire, and numerous organizations, celebrities and politicians at their disposal. For instance, in the Colorado recall elections, gun control advocates outspent the opposition by 6 to 1, and still lost badly.

Additionally, the biggest gun rights victories in recent memory, the Heller and McDonald Supreme Court decisions, had nothing to do with the NRA. These cases and many more victories in lower courts were the work of the Second Amendment Foundation, without any help from the NRA.

The NRA is little more than a boogeyman used by many gun control individuals and organizations to excuse and deflect from their political, electoral, and judicial failures. If the NRA didn't exist, gun control advocates would need to invent something to takes its place.

***
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-have-no-impact-on-support-for-gun-rights-in-the-us

http://www.gallup.com/poll/179213/six-americans-say-guns-homes-safer.aspx

http://www.gallup.com/poll/179045/less-half-americans-support-stricter-gun-laws.aspx

http://www.people-press.org/2014/12/10/growing-public-support-for-gun-rights/

[RobertEarl]

39. So you support the NRA?

I say get rid of the NRA and remove the main political barriers to gun control laws. Remove the NRA and anyone else who has this irrational fear that Obama is gonna take their guns.

You offer not one iota of defense for the innocents - just like the NRA, and sit there condoning and making excuses for the NRA while all the while admitting the reasonableness for gun control. Therefore, you have no credibility in this discussion and seemingly no empathy for anyone but gun owners.

While I on the other side stand with the innocents and for less mass killings.

[branford]

40. "Get rid of the NRA and remove the main political barriers to gun control laws?"

Would you kindly explain how you would get rid of the NRA without violating multiple sections of the Constitution?

Similarly, the "main political barriers to gun control" (apart from the legal barriers like the 2A) are the American citizens that support gun rights, oppose gun control, and are willing and able to vote with their feet. As indicated in my citations to Gallup, Pew and others, these people represent a majority of Americans and their numbers are steadily increasing. Your disagreement with their reasons or perceptions is entirely irrelevant.

Other than declaring martial law, how do you intend to legally circumvent these voters and our democratic system of government (and bypass or repeal the 2A)?

[beevul]

53. "We make sure a car driver is licensed..."

We make sure a car driver is licensed. We test to make sure they know what they are doing.

Only to drive in public, not to simply own a car.

[GGJohn]

30. The NRA does not ban carrying at their conventions,

the venues do because of the liability.
Where the venues allow for carrying, the NRA welcomes it.

[Binkie The Clown]

41. After 70 years of not being murdered, I believe I CAN be murdered, but...

I believe I will NOT be murdered.

I believe I CAN be hit by a falling meteor, but I don't believe I WILL be hit by a falling meteor.

I believe I CAN be vaporized by a nuclear explosion, but I believe I will NOT be vaporized by a nuclear explosion.

I believe I CAN die of some horrible disease, and that one may actually happen, so I exercise and eat a vegan diet, because that will actually do some good. But while I'm eating healthy and taking care of myself, I am NOT worrying about disease.

Fear ruins your present without changing your future. There's simply no motivation for me to live in fear of being murdered, any more than to live in fear of nuclear vaporization or falling meteors. I have better things to do with my life than to cower before imagined dangers.

And for the record, I DO NOT check under my bed each night for monsters. I outgrew that fearful obsession too.

[louis-t]

51. I dunno, ask the carjack victim that got shot by

a gun humper who came to 'help' and shot at the carjackers as they were fleeing and hit the victim instead. As Jed Clampett said, "Don't hep me, boy!"

[Old Crow]

7. It isn't fear that's motivating me.

I'm aware, after all, of the numbers involved. I realize the chances of me, personally, being killed are slim.

Intead, what motivates me is concern for others. I have a hard time watching innocents being slaughtered, week after week after week, like the 20 elementary school children in Sandy Hook.

The word is empathy. Not fear.

[RobertEarl]

11. You don't fear being shot?

Seems the shooters have no fear of being shot, because usually that is the end.

Empathy for the innocents is something the shooters obviously lack.

So it can be said they have no fear of being shot and have no empathy for anyone.

[Old Crow]

13. No, I don't fear being shot.

Certainly not on a regular or even frequent basis. I don't know what kind of neighborhood you live in, but I'm in a fairly well-to-do Pennsylania suburb with no crime to speak of.

The only fear that occasionally crosses my mind in these parts is that I might hit a deer someday while driving on US-422.

[RobertEarl]

20. Heh

So were a lot of the other shooter's 'hoods: peaceful.

Someone pulls a gun on you and you don't fear being shot? That would be irrational. The point is: all of us are in danger. All of us.

[Old Crow]

22. Why are you so invested in urging others to be afraid?

Honestly. I don't get it.

Have you been watching Fox News? I'm sorry if the question seems like an affront, but in my experience, the people who are most on edge and most likely to make statements such as "All of us are in danger--all of us" are Fox News viewers.

[RobertEarl]

24. Tell that to the dead students

Geez... you seem like you live an isolated, pampered life. Like you say: You don't get it.

Are you a proud gun owner? That's how you come across. Like one who lives in fear Obama is gonna come take your guns.

[Old Crow]

29. Excuse me, but what exactly are you doing in this thread?

This thread is for commenting on a graphic that makes the timely point that recognition of others suffering should be the first reaction on hearing of a mass shooting, as opposed to the urge to gun hoard.

Simple enough sentiment; that's what I'm hear to express.

You, on the other hand, seem to have some particular interest in fear. Some of your statements:

#3. "What are you all afraid of? Is it because the government and the police can't protect you...? You should be afraid."

#5. "You think you can't be murdered? Any one of us is the next victim. Being afraid of another NRA supported mass murderer is quite natural... So don't hand me this you are not in fear."

#11: "You don't fear being shot?"

#16. "Don't be ashamed of fear, or of being fearful. Fear is natural and rational. Seems only shooters are the only ones not in fear of being shot."

#20. "The point is: all of us are in danger. All of us."

Honestly, you seem awfully fixated on fear.

You asked if I'm a "proud gun owner." Aside from an air rifle in my teens, I've never owned a gun in my life, nor do I have any interest in owning one.

How about you? Do you own a gun?

[RobertEarl]

32. I have empathy for future innocents

I fear for them and am afraid for them, and others, who are ever more likely to be gunned down by some damn fool that our gun laws which allow crazy fools to own such weapons.

So, what are you doing on this thread?

Yes, I own guns, and have a healthy fear of the damage the bullet coming out of the end of that gun can do. And you don't?

[Old Crow]

35. I came into this thread...

... to voice support for the graphic that's up at the top of the page. What I found was that much of the thread was being hijacked by someone who was going on at great lengths about how afraid he was and how afraid everyone else should be: fear, fear, fear!

Now that you've explained that you own guns, I see where this is coming from.

Look: If you have decided to own guns, and have decided to cultivate a siege mentality in order to justify the owning of those guns, that's your business.

Personally? I have no need for a gun and I choose not to own one. I have never had a gun drawn on me, let alone been shot at. None of my family members or friends have ever had a gun drawn on them or been shot at. In fact, none of the friends of my friends, so far as I know, have ever had a gun drawn on them or been shot at.

By contrast, I can name several friends and family members who've been involved in car accidents. Two of them lost their lives. My concerns about my safety are reality-based and have a lot more to do with seatbelts and good tires than guns.

Please stop trying to monger your fear my way, thank you, and have a good night.

[RobertEarl]

38. I don't keep loaded guns

I also fear getting into car accidents. So I wear a seat belt and keep good tires on my cars. I don't passenger with crazy drivers. I drive slower in the rain and slow down at intersections. I follow speed limit laws (mostly).

Indeed, since there are more car drivers than gun owners, driving is more dangerous. But when was the last time a crazy car driver was responsible for killing ten people in a school room where it is thought everyone was safe?

And as far as you seeing where I am coming from, all I can say is that you don't see. But to try once more to have you see, here is my statement:

We need much better gun control laws in this country. Other countries have better gun control laws and fewer deaths per capita. It is the fear for the innocents and empathy for the victims that makes me see that we need better laws.

And Fuck the NRA.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

10. Some take it to the next step...

Their first reaction is there WAS NO SHOOTING AT ALL. It's all STAGED by Obama to try to get the weak among us to CRY so the government can take our dicks,....I mean guns.

[Todays_Illusion]

17. They are blind to the fact that the change must come from Congress. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. They believe the President has the power of a King....

That's why they vote for someone they think is going to put blacks and Mexicans and Liberals to death and then order all the women to submit to sex on demand and then go make them a sandwich.

[Todays_Illusion]

48. The great unknowing and unenlightened, who are expert at oppression and exploitation. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

50. This is why they freak out when we win. They assume we will do to them what they want to do to us.

[SheilaT]

14. My first reaction is: What the fuck is wrong with everyone?

Once again, and no one ever seems to learn.

I advocate confiscation of guns, which is oddly unpopular, even here on Democratic Underground.

Okay, so I'll set out a reasonable passage to total gun confiscation:

We start with this, that all guns must be registered. And carry liability insurance.

If you're caught with an unregistered gun you lose your privilege to own a gun FOREVER. Got that? Forever.

And all guns must carry liability insurance. Meaning if a gun registered to you is used in the commission of a crime, you are responsible. All guns must be locked up. If your gun is stolen, report it as stolen. It if it used in a crime in the next two years, you are liable. Because you obviously did not do a very good job of keeping it secure. I'll grant an amnesty after two years.

But if your stolen gun is used to commit a crime, you lose FOREVER the right to own a gun.

If you are a hunter, your gun is kept with an appropriate authority. When hunting season opens, and you have the correct license, you may retrieve your gun and an appropriate amount of ammunition, and return all such when hunting season is over, or you've kille whatever you were licensed to kill.

If you are caught with an unlicensed gun, you will be sent to prison for a minimum of twenty years, no parole.

If you think this is too onerous to live with, then move to some country with less onerous laws.

[Straw Man]

43. And yet ...

I advocate confiscation of guns, which is oddly unpopular, even here on Democratic Underground.

Okay, so I'll set out a reasonable passage to total gun confiscation:

... we are told that the "slippery slope" is an "NRA talking point" and a myth. At least you're honest about your ultimate goal.

Surely you must realize that this is why all the talk about how no "reasonable" person could possibly object to some "reasonable" new gun control initiative is seen by many as a sham and a smokescreen for the ultimate goal of a total ban and confiscation of all civilian firearms in the US. You have just admitted that that's exactly what it is. The NRA should give you a recruiting bonus for validating all their "Obama's coming for your guns" hysteria.

[SheilaT]

45. If people didn't have guns,

these mass shootings wouldn't occur.

I don't give a flying fuck if I'm "validating" the notion that Obamas coming for your guns. SOMEONE needs to be coming for their guns. Otherwise, the daily slaughter of innocents is just fine, business as usual, nothing to see here.

Is THAT what you think should be the norm??? I don't. And I'll again repeat, confiscate the guns. If we don't do that, then we are all complicit in the thirty gun murders each and every day, plus about double that number of gun suicides, not to mention the gun "accidents", which I guess is all the kids who find a gun and kill a sibling. As if ANY of that is acceptable.

None of it is acceptable to me. And to those of you who ask I (piously) if I'm willing to go door to door to confiscate the guns, I say, Hell, yes. Besides, think of all the jobs that would be created. How is that a bad thing?

[Straw Man]

49. A meaningless truism.

If people didn't have guns,

these mass shootings wouldn't occur.

I don't give a flying fuck if I'm "validating" the notion that Obamas coming for your guns. SOMEONE needs to be coming for their guns. Otherwise, the daily slaughter of innocents is just fine, business as usual, nothing to see here.

Your fervent belief that confiscating all the guns in America would end murder, suicide, and accidental death would merely be charmingly naive if the political consequences were not so dire. Apparently you're willing to risk ceding the White House and Congress forever to the Republican Party and bringing this country to the brink of civil war in pursuit of your imagined gun-free Nirvana.

And to those of you who ask I (piously) if I'm willing to go door to door to confiscate the guns, I say, Hell, yes. Besides, think of all the jobs that would be created. How is that a bad thing?

Create jobs? Yes, in highly militarized police departments. Better start practicing lobbing flash-bang grenades and battering down doors. You'll also need to be handy with tasers and, yes, firearms.

Are you starting to get a whiff of the irony here?

[jack_krass]

56. If I thought giving up my gun would save one single life

I'd happily do it. The fact is thought that it wont. Even if all law abiding people have their guns up, guns (like drugs) would still be easy to get. And even if not, somebody he'll bent on mass murder would find another method.

[pablo_marmol]

44. If your first reaction to shootings is to think........

........that gun confiscation is a good idea, your knowledge of history and politics SUCK.

[SheilaT]

46. So your response is that all of these gun deaths

are okey-dokey. No problem at all. Sort of like sunshine and moonbeams, right?

[pablo_marmol]

60. Yawn. Put that strawman away.

He's got waaaaaaaaay to many miles on him.

[romanic]

47. I'm gonna be real honest here.

The back and forth about gun control and venom spewed at each other after every single mass shooting SUCK. Arguing online and getting all huffy doesn't amount to jack squat. At the end of the day, nobody on here getting all self-righteous or upset will give a shit about the shooting next week. Count on it.

[Lizzie Poppet]

52. In this case, my initial reaction was closer to home.

Figuratively and literally: I live in Oregon and know some people that live in the area (I'm about three hours north, in Portland). My first thought was for those people (despite my rational mind knowing there was very little likelihood of them being involved).

[HereSince1628]

54. My first reaction...this means more days of bashing people with mental disorders

ignorance, presumptions, stereotypes, over-broad application of pseudo scientific terms in order to endorse existing prejudice, fear, and mold it into suggested discriminatory policies to criminalize illness.

[jack_krass]

55. And if your reaction is

"let's pass more gun laws", or "let's ban all guns" your a simplistic thinker, or trying to show off.

If an individual is sick enough to want to murder a bunch of people, he'll get an illegal gun, or fund another means of mass murder (ie Timothy Mcveigh)

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. ...and, if you say "stuff happens..."

you don't even qualify as human being.

[cui bono]

59. And if your second reaction is to blame Bernie...

your critical analysis skills suck.