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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnd some here wonder why we call it "woo?"
Off the deep end!
#1510: Sussanna Czeranko
Theres something Orwellian about naturopaths claims to promote health. Many of them are not only anti-science, but actually pro-disease (just check out this one). Naturopathy is for instance correlated with anti-vaccine views, and the longer naturopaths are in naturopathy school, the less supportive they become of vaccines: Indeed, one survey of naturopathy students found only 12.8% were supportive of the full pediatric vaccination schedule and it is hardly surprising that care from a naturopath is associated with fewer vaccinations and a greater likelihood of vaccine preventable disease. As such there is nothing particularly novel about the dangerous insanity of Sussanna Czeranko, an Ontario and Oregon naturopath, but lack of novelty doesnt make her any less repugnant.
Czeranko is the author of a multi-part article, The Persistent Question of Vaccination, published in The Naturopathic Doctor News and Review, and according to the findings in the links above her attitudes are hardly untypical of naturopathy practitioners: When vaccination came onto the medical sphere, to say that the earth opened and swallowed up common sense and human dignity is an understatement, writes Czeranko (yes, vaccines stand in opposition to common sense and human dignity), and [t]he core principles that differentiated the distinct schools of medicine [she counts naturopathy as a school of medicine, of course] at the time were tested in ways that we still see remnants of today. Moreover, the debates that arose over vaccines were unfair: Regular doctors who supported vaccination were corrupt pharma shills who had much to gain from its clinical employment [she conspicuously fails to explain what] and used dirty tricks and unfair tactics such as pointing out survival rates, improvement in public health and elimination of horrible diseases to ensure that the doctors who opposed its use had to endure hard lessons that persist in todays medical landscape. Yes, being wrong is, I suppose, a hard lesson, and the people Czeranko talks about tellingly endured being wrong instead of correcting their mistakes.
And make no mistake Czeranko is anti-vaccine to the core: The vaccinationists became politicized, rich and kept their patients in ignorance. The anti-vaccinationists educated their communities and practiced with natures laws. The naturopathic profession has yet to clarify or even unify its position on the issue in the closing days of the first decade of the new century. We may well as a profession find ourselves nodding in agreement with Hodge, who stated in 1911, the amazing fact that it has been possible to force the vaccination atrocity upon the unconsenting world for more than a century is almost incomprehensible. Yes, its deranged conspiracy mongering. Remember that naturopaths are licensed as primary-care physicians in the state of Oregon.
Now, thats just the beginning of the deranged woo promoted by Sussanna Czeranko, of course (shes for instance a qualified Buteyko breathing technique practitioner), but it should give you a clue to how she views the world and evaluate evidence.
http://americanloons.blogspot.ca/2015/11/1510-sussanna-czeranko.html
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)But I dated a naturopath for 2 years. Niether she or her colleagues were anti-vax.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And none of them should be pretending to be doctors.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/naturopathy-vs-science-vaccination-edition/
http://www.naturopathicdiaries.com/
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)extremism some bring to embracing nature over products of modern science. This seems to be one of the places extremists on both sides of the political spectrum meet, even if for different reasons.
A garden group I belong to has one of those, and don't ever get her started on the evils of ivy. You might as well try to talk a religious reactionary crusading against unmarried sex down off the wall.
LuvNewcastle
(16,849 posts)but it doesn't seem like a good idea to make one your primary care physician. You might have a gall bladder attack one day.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)If someone suggested some herbal remedy, well, I'm pretty sure I could not have been held responsible for my actions as I was out of my mind with pain.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)ultimately brought would probably cost at least $10 grand, so I'm glad none of those eager helpers entered your orbit that day.
I have one of those, just a casual friend unfortunately, because she's very intelligent and fun to be with. I'd like to be closer. But I really want my medicines trialed for efficacy and safety, and I know much of what she believes in has been disproven. Or often just that the benefit is way too mild to substitute for modern medications derived from them.
Plus, I also have a carefully controlled but serious autoimmune disease and routinely google all the things she suggests for potential to cause flares, something that is very understudied. Like the red rice yeast she advised. Bad or no? Beats me, but the warning flag is raised so I avoid it.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)that a regular MD was powerless to help me control. All he offered was a shrug, pain meds, and potential surgery with 50% chance of success.
To characterize everyone you don't agree with as spreading "woo" is as anti-science as the other side rejecting vaccines. The real "woo" is people who insist they are right while offering no proof to support their positions.
Why is a blog called "American Loons" considered a credible source on DU anyway?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Advice from a naturopath was much more effective.
Of course, you are the one who thinks Round-Up ready foods are the most nutritious and beneficial, so I consider the source whenever you post anything.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It's not mine. I prefer to live in the real world. That's why I know that naturopaths are scumbags to the core.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)than get advice from old wives. Me? I believe an apple a day keeps the doctor away.
But I am sure if you keep it up, you can manage to make my pain return by continuing to insist I am living in a fantasy world when I say my pain was relieved by visiting a naturopath.
Maybe you should quit trying to practice internet medicine without a license. You aren't a physician, are you? Or did you get your license from that "American Loons" website you keep promoting here?
I find it hard to believe that someone on DU would call someone else a liar for discussing a serious health problem you know nothing about. I have walked with a cane for the past year because of the severity of my symptoms. I am no longer doing so. Call me a liar. Even though you are neither a doctor nor an expert on anything.
Perhaps you should try healing yourself before you diagnose others.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 6, 2015, 06:58 PM - Edit history (1)
... by pushing woo. It's not ok, period.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)I wouldn't want you to keel over while furiously tapping away into your keyboard.
Archae
(46,340 posts)I didn't think so.
Testimonials are worthless when it comes to actual medicine.
"Standing on my head and chanting 'Live Long And Prosper' cured my gout!"
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)That is not a peer-reviewed scientific journal any more than my anecdotal evidence of having found pain relief based on the suggestions of a naturopath means I am an expert on anything. I don't care whether I back up my claims. I found pain relief. Scientific peer reviewed studies actually backed up the claims made by the person who treated me about the effectiveness of a natural substance to help people with pain due to my condition. In fact, some physicians also see the value in the treatment -- just not ones who bank on surgeries and expensive pain meds being the only cure. I know because I did the research.
I don't happen to think rejecting vaccines is a good idea. I understand why others feel differently. I try not to act like I have all the answers in a field where the standard practices change from decade to decade. Examples can be found everywhere. For example, what doctors tell us about how to place babies in cribs has changed dramatically over the years. Dr. Spock said place them on their stomachs. Then they said no that is not a good idea, place them on their backs. They further revised that to suggest placing infants on their sides. These were not loons. They were doctors. And mothers followed their advice. Same with mammograms. First we are told we need them annually starting at age 40. Now they say wait until 50 and do them bi-annually. Self exams are no longer believed to be useful. Again this is the advice of the medical community revised to reflect years of study on the effectiveness of tests vs. the dangers of radiation to breast tissue.
Nothing is so certain that the medical community doesn't ever have to re-evaluate their practices.
And finally, Ben Carson. I'd sooner see a witchdoctor or a shaman, quite frankly. I don't need any peer reviewed studies to back up my claims that one should have their head examined -- literally -- before taking his advice.
As for my picking on your sources, I am mimicking you as you always jump on anyone who cites sources you find questionable. I was simply pointing out that your sources are as flawed as those you attack others for using..
Sorry I bothered to read your thread at all. You don't seem like a rational voice where science or medicine is concerned.
JanMichael
(24,890 posts)folks on this thread periodically post about what they love to call "woo." Sometimes, I just click on them for a time waster "surfin' the net" thing.
Really- It's just pointless- they aren't changing anyone's mind, nor doing any valuable "research" unless you consider "googling" research.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Rabidly attack. And they stifle any conversations about these issues on DU. I have to go elsewhere to read objective calm discussions filled with informed voices, not bitterly snide and hostile ones. Sarcasm and snark are not convincing arguments nor do they inform people or change their minds. I am reminded instead of Galileo forced to recant his beliefs in a heliocentric solar system because of the rigid beliefs of those with orthodox and all-knowing minds when these threads come up.
The "woo" term sounds to me like a baby drooling in a crib over something new and shiny.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Interesting to note that reality, hidden amidst your ugly personal attack. If you want actual discussion, then discuss. Don't make ugly attacks and pretend that others are the problem.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)If you can't do so, then your claims appear to be baseless.
RadiationTherapy
(5,818 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Shandris
(3,447 posts)I'm kind of impressed.
Now, I'm not saying it IS disinformation. Just that it shares an identical silhouette.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)The argument that doctors who vaccinateb do it to make money is illogical.
This sort of crap really upsets me. K&R.