GOP crazies screw one of their own (abortion laws)

[BlueStreak]

I have a good friend with whom I have never discussed politics. I assume he is in the GOP wheelhouse as he is part of the national staff for one of the most conservative Protestant sects.

Last night we were out together. He seemed down. I struck up a conversation, not necessarily expecting much. Was I ever wrong? He was distraught and opened right up. That week his daughter, who is just over 6 months pregnant, got a diagnosis that her child will never be able to live outside the womb. That is tragic news of course. But the GOP has made a tragic situation a complex legal minefield. Medically they have to end the pregnancy because they have very good reason to believe this poses a serious, even fatal, risk to the mother.

But in our state, while "life of the mother" is a mitigating factor, doctors are terrified to do this. The upshot is that, although the doctor says the pregnancy really should be terminated (the baby cannot survive and the mother is at serious risk), the doc is not willing to expose himself to the extra legal actions that could come his way, no matter how well-founded his medical opinion is.

The family decided, rather than fight the legal battles, they will go to the next state for this procedure. The GOP crazies haven't yet taken over everywhere. But just imagine where we could be in another 10 years.

This is one guy who is not really appreciating what "the GOP has done for him."

[Downwinder]

1. I blame the Doctors.

They have allowed the Insurance Companies and Politicians to make their medical decisions.

[BlueStreak]

2. I don't. They didn't go to medical school to be legal pioneers.

The point here is that these radical laws are being used to bully people every which way. What they can't accomplish through laws or through the courts, they are able to accomplish by simply threatening massive legal costs.

[Downwinder]

3. The AMA has become addicted to their Copyright cash flow

for their classification system.

[KT2000]

11. the AMA and other medical associations

are really business groups - not medical groups. Members of those organizations rely on them to keep their business interests forefront - protecting income. They are most willing to let some doctors fall away to such bullying to preserve the status quo which is preventing single payer universal medical care.

The mechanisms for destroying a doctor are many - insurance companies remove them from their lists, medical boards can invent charges, and state attorneys general can charge them too. Other doctors blacklist them in order to prevent problems for themselves.

I do blame doctors for not joining together to take stands that advocate for their patients. Except for a few organizations, they have abdicated their power in society to the system. When they pass these horrible bills - where are the doctors who truly care about their patients and want to stop them. They are hiding out.

[GeorgeGist]

12. My father was a doctor and practiced at a Catholic Hospital ...

in his day they called them D and C's and no one gave a damn. Not even the nuns.

[loyalsister]

16. Or.....

Maybe these types of incidents have had an effect?

Abortion Doctor Shot to Death in Kansas Church

WICHITA, Kan. — George Tiller, one of only a few doctors in the nation who performed abortions late in pregnancy, was shot to death here Sunday in the foyer of his longtime church as he handed out the church bulletin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/us/01tiller.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Hekate]

17. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Doctors have been murdered in cold blood by anti choice fanatics.

Doctors and clinic workers have had their faces, names, and addresses put on Wanted posters and flashed all over the Internet. Their CHILDREN have been stalked.

Lay the blame squarely where it belongs: right at the feet of anti choice fanatics, who are willing to KILL to force women to remain pregnant.

[etherealtruth]

35. +1000000

[SheilaT]

4. Does this friend support the

entire "Right to Life" crap? Because if he does, explain to him he reaps what he sows. It's people like that who've made this situation come about. He doesn't get to have an exception for his daughter. EVERYONE gets to suffer from this bullshit.

On the other hand, if he actually has stood up for a woman's right to choose all along, then he gets sympathy. But if he's been an anti-choice person, then too bad. THIS is exactly what happens when you take away reasonable decision making.

And tell him that if you ever hear of him voting for a Republican again you will call him out publicly for his hypocrisy.

[BlueStreak]

6. You make a good point. I did not ask, under the circumstances

No matter how passionate I am about reproductive rights, I couldn't turn this ongoing tragedy into a crass political discussion. I do hope that after the procedure is don't there might be an opportunity for me to see if there has been any personal evolution here.

I did find one thing a little revealing. When he explained the dilemma about "the procedure", he said, but they are trying to call that 'an abortion'" It was as if to say, I would never consider an abortion, but this is a case where the baby cannot survive and has to be removed. That's not really "an abortion".

Well, yeah, under the law, it is. I told him, "I know you aren't trying to do anything evil. You are just trying to do what is medically necessary. But this is what can happen when lawmakers think they should take these decisions away from families and doctors." He nodded and I left it at that.

[SheilaT]

13. You are more compassionate than I.

But this friend still needs to be thinking long and hard about his stance on a woman's right to choose. Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he hasn't been a strong "Right to Life" guy. Only now, he's confronted with reality. If this changes him permanently, then fine. But if he goes back to wanting to restrict what other women choose, than he needs to be confronted. I am so freaking sick of the hypocrisy.

And I remember before Roe v Wade. I remember women seeking out a friendly doctor, or a family able to afford to send a daughter to Hawaii or Puerto Rico.

No one who has ever been in the situation of being pregnant should ever be allowed to say what pregnant women should be allowed to do.

[Mariana]

19. He'll rationalize the hell out of it.

In fact, he's already doing it by pretending that the procedure that's going to be performed on his daughter isn't really an abortion at all.

Don't be surprised if he comes out of this just as rabidly opposed to choice as he was before.

[SheilaT]

21. Here's the thing. People like that need to be held accountable.

If he's rationalizing what's happening with his daughter, and not understanding that she is not the only person in North America that this affects, then he's a huge part of the problem. And he needs to be called out on this.

I am so freaking tired of people who simply don't get it, who think abortion only happens to others, or who think that their specific situation is unique and has never ever happened in the entire history of the planet and so they should be granted an exemption from the "no abortion" rule. Well, guess what. Women have been needing/wanting abortions since the beginning of time. And anyone who thinks abortions never happened before Roe v Wade is an idiot. Anyone who thinks abortions will go away if we only outlaw them is likewise an idiot. There are many, many reasons for abortions. But women do NOT walk by an abortion provider, snap their fingers and say, "Oh, that's what I think I'll do today". Women NEVER have abortions for trivial reasons. Men think their reasons are trivial, but those men have never been pregnant, haven't a clue what's going on.

So tell this man that he needs to understand that each and every women (sometimes with their partner, families, or doctors) need to be the ONLY ones who decide when an abortion should take place. If he doesn't get it, tell him you hope his daughter suffers all the pains of hell, because that is exactly what he is wishing on other women.

[BlueStreak]

24. Well, he was never volcal on the issue before

I made certain assumptions because of his position in the synod. But you know, not everybody in a church believes everything said in the church. Many are there for the job security, for the social circle, or for the hope somebody will look in on them at the end of their lives.

[Mariana]

31. Nevertheless. he's being extremely dishonest

by pretending that his daughter isn't having an abortion. If he weren't anti-choice, he would not do that. It would be different if he expressed regret and sorrow that his daughter needs an abortion, and just left it at that.

[BlueStreak]

33. It may take a journey. I don't expect a person to flip their value system overnight.

[Mariana]

36. He's lying to avoid even examining his value system.

Of course it won't change if he refuses to be honest about what is happening, not overnight and not ever.

[BlueStreak]

38. You are right about that. Here's an update.

The story is that the mother "gave birth" but the child died.

[Mariana]

39. I'm very sorry. I had hoped to be wrong.

It's a sad thing to find out that a good friend, someone I assume you like and care about, is capable of that level of dishonesty and deceit. You have my sympathy.

[Wounded Bear]

34. It's the same argument they used on Dubya...

after all those years of being the face of what Conservatism has become, he was declared "not really a true conservative" don't you know?

Self reflection has been eradicated from the conservative mind set.

[yeoman6987]

26. Oh sure kick him while he's down

I'd never ask that right now. How insensitive. I might six months or a year after the horrible situation is over. Do you ask a new diabetic if perhaps they are that last chocolate cake or a new skin cancer patient if it was worth going into the sun that one last time?

[SheilaT]

27. But so long as people like him

don't understand the actual consequences of the policies they support, nothing will change. You're right, he shouldn't be kicked while he's down, but if in the future he ever makes a "pro-life" statement in your hearing I hope you call him out on it.

And the comparisons to the diabetic or skin cancer patient are completely not relevant. The diabetic didn't get that way because of laws keeping him from a proper diet. No one gets skin cancer because others pass laws that keep them from staying indoors or using sunblock. And more to the point, the diabetic and the cancer patient are able to get treatment for their conditions, overlooking the fact that too many people in this country don't have access to good health care. No one is passing laws preventing that.

Whereas lots of people out there want to pass laws so that women wind up in precisely the situation your friend's daughter is in.

[yeoman6987]

29. Oh you are right that if he doesn't learn from this, he needs to be reminded of those whose

Policies caused the additional stress. As for my two examples, I agree.

[Mariana]

37. He's not going to learn from it.

The OP has already said that he's lying to himself (and the OP, and probably everyone else) about it, and pretending his daughter isn't really having an abortion at all.

[spinbaby]

5. It's really hard to get a late abortion.

Last edited Sun Nov 8, 2015, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

The anti-abortion people push the narrative of 8-months-pregnant women getting abortions on a whim. The reality is that even if you're six months pregnant with a baby who has trisomy 18 or one of the other lethal defects, it's darn near impossible to get a late abortion. I know a woman who had to wait for her baby to die in utero before she could end the pregnancy.

[BlueStreak]

7. In this case, the woman has already had one very difficult pregnancy, and the docs

strongly advise terminating now. But they don't want to do it in this state.

[justhanginon]

8. You might want to mention to him to keep a good thought or in his case a prayer

for the many women in this country, who do to economic circumstances, cannot afford to pick and go to another state for a medical procedure that may save their life. That just compounds the tragedy of pregnancy that has gone medically awry.

[BlueStreak]

9. Maybe there will be an opportunity after the crisis is over

I value this friendship and don't want him to think this is only about politics. For all I know, he already was more progressive-mided than most people in his situation. But I will keep your idea in mind down the road.

[justhanginon]

10. I should have added to my post that I wish all the best for his daughter.

Not an easy road to go down and having a daughter myself I know this has to be an extremely difficult time for him. It is well he has a good friend like you to stand by him. Friendships are to be treasured and sometimes are too easily given up.

[Hekate]

18. I understand your position. Best of luck all around. nt

[ellie]

14. Oh well

Repukes only care about stuff that directly impacts them. I can't feel sorry for this person.

[Mariana]

32. This person has already decided

that his daughter isn't having an abortion at all. He's pretending that it's something else. That way he can continue to condemn every other woman who gets an abortion, no matter what the reason is.

[displacedtexan]

15. This illustrates the entire reason for Roe v Wade in the first place.

Abortion has always been and always will be readily available to those who can afford it. The whole freakin' point to legalizing abortion was to make it safe and available to every woman.

Of course, I'm preaching to the choir here, but your friend knows full well that Republicans make rules for everyone else but themselves.

[Mariana]

20. I wonder, does he care about poor women

in the exact same situation who can't afford to go traveling to another state to have an abortion done? My guess is no, he doesn't give a shit about them.

My uncle's girlfriend got pregnant in the '50s and had to go to another state to do it. My grandfather paid for it, and it wasn't cheap. My uncle almost certainly raped her. She was pressured by both families into marrying him after high school because she was "damaged goods", although she divorced him after he tried to strangle her to death. He was and is a very dangerous man. I'm betting your good friend would have zero sympathy for my aunt and her situation, and what it led to.

[Ilsa]

22. You've handled this well.

Remain compassionate with this person. But after it is over, don't let them "whitewash" it as anything but an abortion. Anortion isn't a dirty word. It's a health procddure and your friend needs to get on board with fighting for the right side.

[BlueStreak]

25. Maybe I can suggest he or his daughter testify before the legislature

the next time they try to tighten the abortion laws here. I'm sure they are not done.

[dembotoz]

23. the thugs are winning we need to fight

[ananda]

28. When you're rich enough to go to another state ..

.. it is still not going to hit home.

Anti-choice laws are not made with rich people in mind.

[BlueStreak]

30. I don't believe the gentleman in this case is wealthy.

He works for the church. But his daughter certainly has insurance that got her to an expensive specialist who started the process here. That is a huge advantage many people don't have.

And if she were a Medicaid patient, I bet the advice would have been to let her miscarry and hope that didn't kill her, but if it did, "Well there are lots of other Medicaid patients that need our attention too."

This is the state of HC in America.

[tblue37]

40. Some years ago I read an article about an antiabortion Republican state legislator

in a southern state who pushed through a notification law to prevent minors from having an abortion without notifying the girl's parents. He was warned that many girls, unable or willing to notify their parents and get permission, could end up suffering terrible, even tragic consequences.

But of course he ignored all the evidence and advice and rammed his law through.

Eventually, his teenaged daughter became pregnant. She was too ashamed and too afraid of being rejected by her hyper religious fundie parents, so she went the back alley route.

When she developed an infection, she was afraid to seek medical care, because she didn't want her parents to know she had committed two acts they considered major sins--premarital sex AND abortion.

After the poor girl died, her grief strucken father not only fought to get his own bill repealed but also traveled to other states to warn antichoice lawmakers of the potentially tragic consequences that could ensue if such laws were passed.

[BlueStreak]

41. You rarely find a Republican with that kind of courage today

And the only ones that do are moved ONLY after it affects them personally, such as Nancy Reagan being active with Alzheimer's or Dick Cheney becoming "open-minded" about gay issues.