To quote John Lennon

[FLPanhandle]

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...


Especially the religion part.

[AuntPatsy]

1. ....

[marym625]

2. great quote for this week

This day especially

[ms liberty]

3. ...

[Sebass1271]

4. Not all religion are evil

The Christian religion is very peaceful

[liberaltrucker]

5. ....

[yardwork]

6. This is a joke, right?

[Sebass1271]

7. No it is not

Show me where WE have been beheading people and killing innocents?

Show me.

[yardwork]

8. Google the Crusades.

[SusanCalvin]

17. OK, how about

the efforts by fundamentalists to deny women reproductive health care while claiming to be protecting their health?

How about the nasty, violent parts of the Bible? Or are you a pick-and-chooser?

[beevul]

23. Yes, thats clearly equivalent...

OK, how about the efforts by fundamentalists to deny women reproductive health care while claiming to be protecting their health?

How about the nasty, violent parts of the Bible? Or are you a pick-and-chooser?

Yes, that's clearly equivalent to suicide bombings, treating women like animals, throwing gays off the tops of buildings, and beheading people.

[SusanCalvin]

26. Uh, I was not comparing Christianity to any other religion

at this point. I was responding to the poster who claimed it is/was peaceful.

But as far as your point, have you been a woman in, say, Texas, desperately needing medical care you could not get because of the fundies?

Oh, and, :rolleyes: back atcha.

[beevul]

32. And if I was...

But as far as your point, have you been a woman in, say, Texas, desperately needing medical care you could not get because of the fundies?

And if I was, would I be forbidden from driving, or forced to wear a burka, or stoned to death for being seen in public with a man who wasn't my husband?

The things you list obviously are not good or decent or right, but its simply beyond the pale to argue, imply, insinuate, or compare in any way, any equivalence to modern Christianity.

Oh, and for what its worth, I'm agnostic. And a man.

In closing, that you have to reach back 100+ years to find any remote equivalence of Christianity to modern radical muslems, says about all that needs saying. Make sure to sound off next time Christians take over a theater and kill 100 plus people in 1 event, in 1 day, in the name of jesus.

[SusanCalvin]

35. Hoo boy.

Enjoy using your broad brush.

"Muslems"? Sure you don't mean "Muslins"?

Oh, and, please see post #10. Not that I really want to argue about which religion is "worst." None is based in reality - some just handle the disconnect better than others.

[beevul]

38. Broad brush? Are you blind?

Go look again, the words "modern" and "radical" are there too.

That you either missed it, ignored it, or are pretending that they aren't there, reflects on you, not on me.

[SusanCalvin]

40. See post 10. Many thanks to that poster. eom and end of conversation.

[beevul]

43. Good.

...and end of conversation.

Good.

Because when I point out that those are individuals taking individual action in separate events, not an organized action planned well in advance by an organized group, who took the time and effort to smuggle in automatic weapons, grenades and explosives well in advance to a country where none of the above are allowed...

You wont bother answering with another non sequitur.

[Lonusca]

63. Isn't "Muslin" a fabric?

Stinks when you do that trying to make a poor spelling argument, doesn't it?.

[niyad]

56. remember the witch burnings? (women and gays were victims) inquisition? the magdalene laundries?

anything these insane religionists have done, you can find in the christian churches as well.

[beevul]

61. You mean those things that happened 50+ years ago?

...the christian churches ...

What parallels can you find in the last 50 years?

Which part of Christianity is currently trying to take over the world, and executing those who offend its doctrine?

I don't question what has been done historically.

I question its relevance to whats being done CURRENTLY.

[niyad]

62. the person who said "peaceful" did not specify a time frame. and I just LOVE how the xian

apologists are whining that it's all peace and love within the church now--homophobia, anyone? pastors telling to kill the gays? LAST WEEKEND's puke conference with the unholy three? the murders of abortion providers? shall I go on? the CHRISTIANS who murdered their children, just in the last few weeks? shall I go on?

relevance? HELL YES.

[beevul]

64. Perhaps they didn't, but I did...

. the person who said "peaceful" did not specify a time frame.

Perhaps they didn't, but I did, the very first time I mentioned them:

The things you list obviously are not good or decent or right, but its simply beyond the pale to argue, imply, insinuate, or compare in any way, any equivalence to modern Christianity.

Note the word 'modern'.

and I just LOVE how the Xian apologists are whining that it's all peace and love within the church now--homophobia, anyone? pastors telling to kill the gays? LAST WEEKEND's puke conference with the unholy three? the murders of abortion providers? shall I go on? the CHRISTIANS who murdered their children, just in the last few weeks? shall I go on?

How...quaint. I'm no Xian apologist. I accept that Christianity has a rather violent, morbid history to say the least. I never disagreed with that fact. I simply see it as irrelevant to this discussion. I'm not arguing that Christianity is innocent. I'm not arguing that Christianity is pure as the driven snow. I am in fact, nothing short of repulsed by religion, any of them. My repulsion, however, also does not blind me to the current reality. The issue is whats going on NOW, which we can do things about, not ancient history.

I'm arguing that theres a difference between individuals doing X in the name of their religion in modern times, and an organized movement of individuals doing X in the name of their religion in modern times. That's a fact, and its irrefutable. Which is why you wont address it by answering the question at the bottom of this post.

Advocating against gays in modern times, as disgusting as it is, is not in the same ballpark as throwing them off the tops of buildings in modern times. Actually doing it is far far worse than suggesting it, in my view. Feel free to disagree.

Individuals murdering abortion Doctors in modern times in the name of their religion, is not in the same ballpark as organized groups so powerful that they require military strength to fight, beheading/attaching mines/burning to death mass numbers, people whom their religion condemns, in modern times. Again, feel free to disagree.


I'll ask again:

Which part of Christianity is currently trying to take over the world, and executing those who offend its doctrine?

Answer the question.

[niyad]

69. answer the question? I already did, numerous times. sorry, not playing this game anymore.

[LiberalElite]

21. The violent history of Christianity in general is

very relevant here. A peaceful religion is peaceful all the time, from its beginning. What time frame did you have in mind? The last five minutes?

[SusanCalvin]

24. .

Good one.

[REP]

9. First, what's this "WE" shit and Second, ever hear of the Inquisition?

[hifiguy]

11. The Crusades,

the witch hunts of the middle ages, the execution of heretics by the thousands at the stake, the Inquisition, numberless pogroms directed at European Jews in the name of Jebus, massacreing Native Americans or forcibly converting them at the point of a sword or gun in the name of gawd. And I am just getting started.

The xtian fairytale has spilled seas of innocent blood.

[Alittleliberal]

42. Most Cartel Members are Catholics

They've been chopping heads off since ISIS was in diapers. How about Christian extremists murdering gay people in Uganda?

[niyad]

55. the crusades, the witch burnings, the inquisition, the colonization of the new world. .

shall I continue???? read the history of this "peaceful" religion and then repeat that remark with a straight face.

[niyad]

57. you said christianity is peaceful, we are pointing out that it is not. and then you whine that

it doesn't count, because it all happened centuries ago. sorry, that doesn't wash. we know the history that you apparently wish we did not.

[niyad]

59. read "the indigenous people's history of the united states", which documents the genocide of

the indigenous inhabitants of this land by god-fearing xians. and don't try that "but it happened centuries ago bs. you are the one who stated that christianity is peaceful, we are pointing out that it is not, not in any century.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

10. Dr. George Tiller, Dr. Barnett Slepian, Dr. David Gunn, all killed by Christians.

Because that's how Christians prevent abortion. They kill live, adult doctors and live, adult clinic escorts.

Eric Rudolph executed a series of terrorist attacks between 1996 and 1998. He carried out 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing — which claimed two lives and injured 111 — with the aim of to cancelling the games, claiming they promoted global socialism.[31] Rudolph confessed to bombing an abortion clinic in Sandy Springs, an Atlanta suburb, on January 16, 1997; the Otherside Lounge, an Atlanta lesbian bar, on February 21, 1997, injuring five; and an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama on January 29, 1998, killing Birmingham police officer and part-time clinic security guard Robert Sanderson, and critically injuring nurse Emily Lyons.

According to data compiled by the New America Foundation, since the 2001 September 11 attacks, right-wing extremists have committed at least 19 lethal terrorist attacks in the United States, resulting in the deaths of 48 people.

Right-wing Christian terrorists. Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols bombed the Oklahoma City Federal Building as retaliation for the Waco attacks. Good Christians all.

Preemptory strike: DO NOT USE the No True Scotsman logical fallacy and say "Oh they were not real Christians." This is a logical fallacy and not allowed in debates.

[SusanCalvin]

27. Bingo.

[niyad]

58. thank you for remembering these martyrs to xian insanity, brutality and hatred.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

68. That's because I was in the same room as some of these terrorists, as part of my job.

I took part of a temporary injunction hearing and a trial in civil district court by Planned Parenthood and various doctors against Operation Rescue, and individual anti-abortion demonstrators. I used to be a court reporter.

This was after the murder of Dr. Gunn and before the murder of Dr. Slepian.

I remember the mother of Joshua Graf, who attempted to firebomb an abortion clinic, testify about how proud she was of her young son, for attempting to firebomb the clinic, and who was serving time in Federal Prison. That was absolutely chilling. And one of the leaders of one of the groups, Don Treshman, was asked if he condemned the murder of Dr. David Gunn. He said "Our group neither condemns nor condones the murder of Dr. Gunn."

You could have watched the jury slide out of their chairs into the floor of the jury box in shock.


There were quite a few moments that were beyond belief.

Those people are scary.

I think I got post-traumatic stress from what little of that trial I did see. I only worked on it a few days.

[niyad]

71. I can well understand. I have been on the front lines with those crazy people, face to face,

not even in a courtroom. scary does not begin to cover it. have even received death threats from them, so when I see people urging us to believe that xianity is peaceful, makes me want to throw up (on them).

[FLPanhandle]

12. Some are better than others, however no religion is better than any of them

Statistically in murders, prison population, etc. it's not even close.

No religion wins over any religion.

[SusanCalvin]

18. You are aware that Mahr is an atheist?

And I agree with his sentiment if he was talking about DLCers. I'd have to see the quote in context.

[beam me up scottie]

29. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Fri Nov 13, 2015, 09:03 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The politically correct liberal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7342292

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Liberals are such pussies" Sebass smells a bit fishy to me ... maybe shouldn't be posting on a "pussy" liberal site.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Nov 13, 2015, 09:09 PM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Vote to hide for using "pussies".
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Voting to hide because of the right wing talking point. Oh and this owner of a pair of ovaries is no "pussy".
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This deserves a tombstone.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter. BIG OL' HIDE.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I was juror #3.

[SusanCalvin]

30. Yeah, I don't know what's with this poster.

I'm bored but not ready for sleep, and s/he is providing me mild amusement. Or at least distraction.

[beam me up scottie]

31. Well they're all done amusing people in this thread.

They'll have to peddle that horse shit somewhere else.

[SusanCalvin]

33. Yeah, Christianity (historically) peaceful. Riiiiiight..... nt

[REP]

49. Three hides tonight

We might not be seeing our friend again

[beam me up scottie]

52. That would be a shame, wouldn't it?

[niyad]

60. "flagged for review"--still with us.

[REP]

66. I think after review, maybe not?

[niyad]

70. one hopes.

[REP]

20. And you are ... ?

We know you think the Spectator is a reliable source ... and run from hard questions ....

[SusanCalvin]

22. I vaguely remember some statistics...

Athiests are the group least represented in prison. Of course, that could be in part because declaring a religion gives many advantages.

They are also the most knowledgeable about religion.

[NightWatcher]

13. If everyone would stop fighting over who's imaginary friend is the one true imaginary friend

we'd all stand a better chance of living in peace.

It's all quite ridiculous.

[SusanCalvin]

19. Bingo.

I have the advantage and disadvantage of never having understood religion one tiny bit. Just don't get it, never have.

[sellitman]

50. Your religion is peaceful.

Many of your Christians however are not.

Really?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

51. If you ignore the occasional abortion clinic bombing, lynching or church burning.

[niyad]

54. dear goddess, you forgot the sarcasm thingy, yes???

[Enthusiast]

67. The Christian religion has displayed little tolerance for those outside their specific dogmatic

belief structure.

Individual Christian sects have a history of extremely violent warfare against one another.

There have been periods of peaceful coexistence as we see now in the United States. But even in the United States there has been a history of extreme intolerance toward other Christians, even those living in the same nation.

Evil or not, hardly peaceful.

[2naSalit]

14. ...or

[Township75]

25. No need to imagine, just read about Soviet gulags and Chinese labor camps

It's all peaceful rainbows with dancing unicorns.

[Alittleliberal]

44. Pretty sure those are countries

Lennon didn't think Religion was our only issue. The song has a couple verses.

[backscatter712]

28. Exactly. Killing for Bronze Age sky-daddies is just plain psycho.

It's a shame more of humanity hasn't bought a vowel and solved that puzzle.

[napkinz]

34. K&R

[SCantiGOP]

36. It's amazing how something so peaceful and comforting

Could so quickly turn into the usual shitstorm.

Point of the song: ....and the world could live as one.

[SusanCalvin]

41. It's the "imagine no religion," I think. nt

[jwirr]

37. And especially tonight.

[MisterP]

39. what percent of Muslims are pro-IS?

[merrily]

47. What percentage of over 1.5 billion Muslims have attacked anyone?

[jtuck004]

45. Well, if we quit teaching the kids this stuff, they might reach that goal. But we have

to make room for the adults to fix themselves first (Cold day in hell...), and lead.

Else it will never, ever happen.

[merrily]

46. Islamophobia-over 1.5 billion people in this world are Muslims. If Islam were to blame for Paris,

we'd all be dead.

[Feeling the Bern]

48. Artifical borders and artifical ideas will kill us all.

[amb123]

53. Especially no Fundamentalist Religion.

[napkinz]

65. kick

[Hortensis]

72. Sorry, Panhandle, I can't imagine it. Take away religion and

all those things, would make no difference. To leave man is to keep the part that kills, and he'd reinvent any and all philosophies necessary to justify it.

We are genetically wired to war. We know we can control ourselves better, and we have a duty to, but making war much less usual, even unusual, is probably the best we will ever manage.

[FLPanhandle]

73. Good point. Man as an animal is tribal and violent by nature.

However, I think if you take away the concept of a reward in the after life and people realize this is their one opportunity to be a conscience living human being, that would limit the desire to die. Not remove it from all, but reduce it.