We are appalled at the terrorist attacks in Paris, as well we should be.

[raccoon]

But how's that any different from "Shock and Awe?" Attacks on innocent civilians who were just living their lives. After the "Shock and Awe" attacks, many of these people are dead, lost family members, lost arms and legs, etc.

I realize that most of us here on DU believe that the attack on Iraq in 2003 was utterly despicable. But I think many Americans view it through a totally different lens.

[CBGLuthier]

1. Whatever. Apparently some folks really have to make their fucking points while the blood is still

running in the streets.

Yes, we all think that all fucking people being murdered is a terrible thing. Bully for you that you made us all see your fucking point. Do you feel fucking better?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

9. Anymore, there's always blood running in the streets.

Should I pull up one of the political cartoons about gun violence where someone pulls out the 'Wait, the bodies are still warm, it's not time to talk about it', the other guy waits, starts to talk, is told it's still not time, waits some more, starts to talk, and right then the next massacre happens, starting the cycle over again?

The time to talk about breaking cycles of violence is ALWAYS, until the cycle is actually broken. Whether it's the West, attacking the Middle East, or the Middle East attacking the West.

[B Calm]

15. I remember when it was bad to talk about George W Bush starting a holy war in Iraq.

[B Calm]

2. 224 people lost their life on that Russian plane that was blown up just the other day.

[CJCRANE]

3. I didn't see any statements about how "We are all Russian" or "Je Suis St Petersburg".

I saw a lot of statements in the media about how the Russians brought it on themselves and how their foreign policy was to blame.

[B Calm]

5. Exactly!

[malaise]

8. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Truth hurts

[polly7]

12. Yep.

Pretty sickening.

[randome]

4. The horrific nature of the attacks 'inspires' some to accept the blame for it.

I'm sure there is a psychological term for it. But there is no connection between 'shock and awe' and what happened in Paris. None.

It's so difficult to fathom that some of us retreat into a 'safe zone' where we can find cause and effect to lessen the horror. We don't want to believe that monstrous acts like this can occur on their own.

But they do. And it does no one any good to try and accept blame for it. All that does is make us feel a little less traumatized ourselves.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[Fumesucker]

7. The connection is that both events were barbarous and senseless

Although the magnitude of one is far greater than the magnitude of the other.

[CJCRANE]

6. The point I'm more interested in is the contradictory nature of supporting jihadis.

We support some jihadis but fight against other jihadis.

Some of the jihadis we support join the jihadis we're fighting against.

Some of the jihadis we support join the jihadis we are fighting against and attack us.

Some of the rebels we support (i.e Kurds) are attacked by one of our allies because they think they are terrorists.

When Russia was attacked by Isis the western politicians and pundits claimed it was due to their foreign policy.

When the west is attacked there is no excuse given.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

10. As far as I can see, "terrorists" are people who feel EVERY member of a society

has 'skin in the game' when it comes to paying for what that society has done. They just don't care about the polite 'rules of engagement' that nations have set up to make war more of a 'game', and they'll hit anyone in any way until their goals are met, or the society they're hitting changes. The ones that attack America don't distinguish between Democrat or Republican, 'civilian' or military. We occupy their lands, we exploit their people and resources, we kill their civilians with 'drone strikes', we bully them around and stick military bases all over, and they hold each and every one of us responsible for the chickenhawk asshats we elect for leaders.

[CJCRANE]

11. But sometimes we use them

but then we call them "freedom fighters".

And right we are using some of the same groups that hate us.

What will happen if the Syrian rebels win? What will happen to religious minorities?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

14. We've got a long, dark history of believing the RW notion that 'the enemy of my enemy' should be

armed and trained and encouraged to create more death and destruction. In the long term, the only way violence is ever a 'solution' is through the worst possible solution - genocide.

What will happen to religious minorities? Our leaders don't give a damn.

[randome]

13. Which explains why they enslave and mutilate women and gays, I'm sure.

This false equivalence stuff is nonsense. None of these monsters has claimed any sort of retribution. They brutalize members of their own 'tribe' all the time. As much as the mind rebels at the idea that these acts have their own 'engine' instead of cause and effect, the evidence is not there to support that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[The2ndWheel]

16. Life is subjective