General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust a reminder about 9-11. We were attacked by Saudi terrorists. Yet the Bush
administration decided to wage war on Afghanistan and even more weirdly on Iraq. Months later we saw George W. Bush walking down a path on his ranch through a meadow of Blue Bonnets holding hands with a Saudi prince. Neither Saudi Arabia nor Bush and his minions have been held accountable. It's time to throw the book at these criminals, every single one of them. If we can't do it, maybe the Europeans led by France will start proceedings at the Hague and bring justice once and for all for all the victims of the crimes perpetrated by the members of the PNAC who hatched this plan to conquer the Middle East, starting with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.
thucythucy
(8,057 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)that's where the terrorists had bases. We should have gone in there, blown up them and their shit, and had the boys home for Christmas. Not try to take over the whole country and build a country for them.
Of course, the Iraq invasion was trumped up by lies from the criminal Bush cabal and completely unjustified.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)think we had a boot on the ground yet. There was absolutely no need for us being involved in Afghanistan militarily. It seems the Taliban were willing to hand over the Saudi terrorists to another nation for trial.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Got it!
BTW, the Taliban never offered to give Bin Laden to the U.S. Their only offer, for what it was worth, was to give Bin Laden to a third country that would not be under U.S. pressure. LOL.
So, your post is FAIL.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I didn't say we weren't involved. I said we had no boots on the ground at that moment. The war of invasion did not need to happen. Once we had bin Laden in a prison somewhere, there would be no reason to continue bombing the crap out of them, nor to be involved in a forever war there.
earthside
(6,960 posts)... about this country's relationship with Saudi Arabia.
Oil and weapons and BIG money.
But even beyond that why do Presidents of both parties virtually genuflect to the House of Saud?
My gut tells me that the Saudi ruling elite are behind much of the discord and violence in the Middle East ... they are playing a deadly double, triple game with everyone and thousands and thousands have been killed and impoverished as a result.
Remember, Bush-Cheney let the Saudis in the U.S. all fly out of the country on September 12.
So, I wonder if besides bringing Bush-Cheney to justice, it is time for some real-politic for the Saudi royal family -- maybe it is time to take another look at their role in the chaos and turmoil in the world.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Also, thanks to us, the Saudis have a very robust military. Maybe our military brains are afraid of them.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)Back in the 1980s, there was a whole floor of the IMF dedicated for the Saudis' use. Who knew what they have now. They are our good buddies because they control $$$$.
I agree it is sick and twisted. One if the most repressive regimes on earth and we support it. Don't talk to me about freedom.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)...as a warning.
Yes, I think Russian intelligence tactics are appropriate right now.
Response to Cleita (Original post)
merrily This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)roamer65
(36,745 posts)Blowback from our involvement of setting up the Muhjadeen along with the Saudis. Then we dumped gas on fire by toppling Saddam in Iraq. We have a lot of blame in this fiasco.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)There are reports Taliban offered to turn over bin Laden BEFORE 9-11.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2011/09/20119115334167663.html
But, no.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Afghanistan, but for the malfeasance and incompetence of the Bush/PNAC people.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)What was required is Justice.
Al-Qaida monitored U.S. negotiations with Taliban over oil pipeline
A memo by military chief Mohammed Atef raises new questions about whether failed U.S. efforts to reform Afghanistan's radical regime -- and build the pipeline -- set the stage for Sept. 11.
JEAN-CHARLES BRISARD
Salon.com, WEDNESDAY, JUN 5, 2002
A 1998 memo written by al-Qaida military chief Mohammed Atef reveals that Osama bin Ladens group had detailed knowledge of negotiations that were taking place between Afghanistans ruling Taliban and American government and business leaders over plans for a U.S. oil and gas pipeline across that Central Asian country.
The e-mail memo was found in 1998 on a computer seized by the FBI during its investigation into the 1998 African embassy bombings, which were sponsored by al-Qaida. Atefs memo was discovered by FBI counter-terrorism expert John ONeill, who left the bureau in 2001, complaining that U.S. oil interests were hindering his investigation into al-Qaida. ONeill, who became security chief at the World Trade Center, died in the Sept. 11 attack.
Atefs memo shines new light on what al-Qaida knew about U.S. efforts to normalize relations with the Taliban in exchange for the fundamentalist governments supporting the construction of an oil and gas pipeline across Afghanistan. As documented in the book I coauthored with Guillaume Dasquie, Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth, the Clinton and Bush administrations negotiated with the Taliban, both to get the repressive regime to widen its government as well as look favorably on U.S. companies attempts to construct an oil pipeline. The Bush White House stepped up negotiations with the Taliban in 2001. When those talks stalled in July, a Bush administration representative threatened the Taliban with military reprisals if the government did not go along with American demands.
The seven-page memo was signed Abu Hafs, which is the military name of Atef, who was the military chief of al-Qaida and is believed to have been killed in November 2001 during U.S. operations in Afghanistan. It shows al-Qaidas keen interest in the U.S.-Taliban negotiations and raises new questions as to whether the U.S. military threat to the Taliban in July 2001 could have prompted al-Qaidas Sept. 11 attack.
Atefs memo is not about the pipeline alone, though it mentions the project several times. It is an analysis of the political situation facing the Taliban. It documents the movements rise, its leadership, the geopolitical importance of Afghanistan, the Talibans relationship with Pakistan, as well as the movements relationship with the Arab mujahedin. The documents intended readership is unclear. But it reveals that the pipeline was seen as a strategic offering toward the West, in order to make the Taliban government acceptable to the United States and Pakistan, as well as to reduce military and investigative pressure on the country to rein in or even extradite bin Laden.
Atef explains that the United States wants to take control of any region which has huge quantities of oil reserves, and the American government is keen on laying the oil and gas pipelines from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan. Atef concludes that al-Qaidas duty toward the movement (Taliban) is to stand behind it, support it materially and morally, especially because its regional and international enemies are working night and day to put an end to it and make it fail.
CONTINUED...
http://www.salon.com/2002/06/05/memo_11/
Carpet o' Gold awaits those who go along, a Carpet o' Bombs awaits those who don't.
plus5mace
(140 posts)I wish we could just blame Bush but it is clear that no one is willing to hold Riyadh responsible. I'm not sure what President Gore would have done, but I can bet he wouldn't have blamed Saudi Arabia. Even now our leaders talk about Syria and just shift all blame to Assad, ignoring the fact that ISIS is receiving material support from our allies. Its madness.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)paid attention to the Hart Rudman report that outlined the threat posed by Islamic terrorist organizations and the CIA report that said Bin Laden determined to strike in USA presented with the President's Daily Brief on August 6, 2001 to Bush.
plus5mace
(140 posts)I don't like the strategy of allowing our allies to fund this monster and relying on intelligence to prevent any incidents.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)esp. from MSM.
The only thing I 100% accept at face value of last night is Jeb's reaction....he was salivating over the idea of WAR WAR WAR.