Quran 5:32

[one_voice]

Last edited Sat Nov 14, 2015, 03:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Islam is NOT the face of terrorism. TERRORISTS are the face of terrorism...



eta:

Muslims strongly condemn Paris terror attacks

Muslims worldwide on Saturday strongly condemned the terrorist attacks by the Islamic State that killed at least 127 people in Paris.

Shuja Shafi, secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, an umbrella body that represents more than 500 organizations including mosques, schools and charities, described the killings as "horrific and abhorrent."

"My thoughts and prayers for the families of those killed and injured and for the people of France, our neighbours," he said in a statement.

*snip*

Tariq Ramadan, a professor of Islamic Studies at Oxford University in England and president of the European Muslim Network think tank said in a statement: “Absolute and immediate condemnation. They shouted, we are told, ‘Allahu akbar” (God [is] the greatest) to support and justify their inhuman actions.

“With this they told a lie and a truth. Their lie is related to Islam and its message as not even one of its teachings, ever, can justify their actions. These acts are the result of minds inhabited by the worst, or minds without minds, manipulated or manipulators.”

Fateh Kimouche, 38, founder of the prominent French Muslim blog Al Kanz, said it was important for the whole country to put up a "united front against terrorists." But he also expressed concern about a backlash against Muslims following this "atrocious act."

*snip*

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/11/14/muslims-strongly-condemn-paris-attacks/75772102/

Muslims Around the World Speak Out Against Terrorist Attacks in Paris

http://time.com/4112830/muslims-paris-terror-attacks-islam-condemn/

[brooklynite]

1. Quran 2:191-192

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

...And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

These terrorists derive their inspiration from their religion; just as Women's Clinic bombers do.

[hobbit709]

14. And what the lord commanded in Joshua is any better?

[brooklynite]

16. No, I'm equally hostile to all religions...

..the OP raised the suggestion that religion had nothing to do with this.

[hifiguy]

20. Which is a contention so absurd

that it may be immediately dismissed and brutally mocked. That kind of ignorance takes the breath away.

The pretty poetics in the "holy books" always sit cheek by jowl with exhortations to annihilate the heathen non-believers. Twas ever thus.

[one_voice]

38. That wasn't my intention...

I can see where I wasn't clear.

Obviously religious terrorists had everything to do with it.

I'm not a religious person by any measure. But I don't ridicule those that are nor am I hostile to those that choose to worship.

My intention here was lets keep those that are nothing like the fanatics....which is why I edited and linked the stories. That's where I first saw the image.

One doesn't need to be religious to find truth in that image, imo.

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear in my OP.

[awoke_in_2003]

31. +1000. nt

[SereneG]

42. 2 190 -195

Quran 2:191 – “And kill them wherever you find them…”

Critics as usual apply ‘cut and choose’ approach with regards to this passage (Quran 2:191). They only quote, “And kill them wherever you find them…(2:191). However, when we read the passage in its context (2:190-195) it says opposite what they portray of the verse.

Quran 2:190 – 195

2:190 Fight in the way of God those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. God does not like transgressors.
2:191 And kill them wherever you find them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah [Persecution] is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, God is Forgiving and Merciful.
2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah [Persecution] and [until] worship is for God. But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.
2:194 [Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear God and know that God is with those who fear Him.
2:195 And spend in the way of God and do not throw [yourselves] with your [own] hands into destruction [by refraining]. And do good; indeed, God loves the doers of good.

It’s important whenever one reads a Quranic verse, to read it in its context. As you have read, critics only quote the part which suites them, they isolate previous verses and the ones after. When the passage is examined in context, it is clear that nowhere does it sanction the killing of innocent people. From verse 2:190 to 2:195, when read, Allah makes it evident to fight those only who fight them, fighting in self-defence.

Another thing critics love to do with the passage is, change the Arabic word’s meaning. Example, the Arabic word ‘Fitna’ used in 2:191 and 2:193, Islamophobes have translated the word as ‘disbelief’. So, when it’s read in that perspective, the passage is implying to fight to those who are disbelievers, just because of their religion. This again when we examine it, it will turn out to be a lie. The Arabic word ‘Fitnah’ means ‘persecution’, ‘corruption’, ‘sedition’. But when the word ‘Fitnah’ is used in verse 2:191 and 2:193 it means ‘persecution’.

[JimDandy]

2. And the US has done so much of that with our drones.

Fault lies everywhere.

[Rex]

3. Using religious text to prove a point can be problematic.

Exodus 23: 7 ESV
Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked.

Leviticus 20:10 NLT
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.

Numbers 1:48-51 NLT
Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.

[MH1]

4. I'm going to make a wild guess that "innocent"

might be the stumbling block on this one.

[Throd]

6. People who don't buy into their shit are not "innocent" and deserve death.

[merrily]

43. They consider us complicit for allowing, enabling, etc. leaders who attack their nations.

France bombed Syria in September.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/27/middleeast/syria-france-isis-bombing/

Of course, for "air strike" you have to read "bomb" and for "Isis" you have to read "Syria."

Media has to reword to keep us lulled and complacent.

[MowCowWhoHow III]

5. Well let's hope 99% of Muslims are Cafeteria Muslims

Because there's some serious grime in the Quran

[Fairgo]

15. touche'

[hifiguy]

23. Most excellent!

[MisterP]

30. did you just say that IS are the only true Muslims?!

[awoke_in_2003]

33. Excellent. nt

[Imajika]

7. Sorry, but political Islam is a problem..

Most terrorist attacks, as we typically define them, are perpetrated by Muslims who aren't taking that particular verse to heart.

Having lived in Thailand, I can tell you that the southern 3 provinces where Islam meets Buddhism is very violent and characterized by Islamic terrorist be-headings, bombings, etc. It has nothing to do with Israel, nothing to do with US policy in Iraq/Syria, etc. It is political, militant Islam and I can assure you they do not read the Quran the way you do.

Now saying that, the vast majority of Muslims are perfectly good and decent people - but there is a very disturbingly high minority who believe Sharia should be the law of the land, who may not ever be associated with terrorism but are sympathetic to the Mujahideen, and who refuse to assimilate in the new lands they now live. The first generation are typically happy to be in countries that offer more opportunity than their home countries, but the 2nd, 3rd, etc, generation seem to self segregate and hate the lifestyle of the very countries in which they live.

Remember, I am saying a minority are acting this way, not a majority. Most Muslims I know well, work with, etc, are just like the rest of us - usually somewhat irreligious and understand that religious text can be used justify almost anything.

[smirkymonkey]

8. +1000

[one_voice]

10. Of course political Islam is a problem..

I wasn't talking about them. Have you seen social media today? Muslims are enemy number 1. I've seen people wanting to wipe out every Muslim on the planet. Bomb them all. Images floating all over the place 'time to play cowboys & Muslims' WTF is that?

I have a few friends that are Muslim. I fear for them. The blood lust that's out there....

The misconception that they want to kill everyone...and all are terrorists and hate us.

this is so true:

religious text can be used justify almost anything.

[PeoViejo]

13. Usury is Haram in Islam

How are the Bankers going to develop the Middle East if those pesky Muslims won't borrow any of their Funny Money. Another reason they don't want Muslims in the EU.

The Banksters are perfectly happy to watch them kill each other and will loan whatever is needed to make sure they do a good job of it.

[SereneG]

44. Ditto

No interest rates - that's more than enough to watch them kill each other.

[moondust]

11. Thank you.

Any ideas on how the massive refugee crisis in Europe may turn out, or what can ultimately be done about the genocidal minority of Muslims?

[Imajika]

19. Well, I think this event provides the excuse many were looking for...

The reality is opposition to letting all these refugees in was hardening anyway. The reasons people give are probably just excuses. If you dig down, I think many Europeans have lost faith in the idea that Islam can integrate into largely secular social democracies. Perhaps majorities of Europeans no long believe that Islam can be separated from political Islam. As of now only the far right will say things like "Muslims out" and "No more Muslim immigration", but I think that view is spreading rapidly - even thought most people still won't necessarily admit they believe this.

I really don't know what will happen. My experience living in Thailand is that most Thai's, while angry about the beheading's and murder on their southern border, are still pretty accepting of Muslims in Bangkok and elsewhere. But the significant factor is one of population percentage. Muslims are maybe 5% of the Thai population and are not deemed much of a threat outside the South. The more significant the Muslim population grows in Europe however, the more many Europeans distrust them. They, much like say a Pat Buchanan, see their way of life slipping away. Tie that with the fact that 2nd, 3rd, etc, generations of European Muslims seem to detest the way of life Europeans lead and you gain an insight into why the right wing xenophobic parties are gaining steam and an event like this will only increase the speed that this takes place.

[moondust]

49. Is it possible

that the refugees in Europe could build their own boroughs there that would allow coexistence and minimal contact with the "way of life Europeans lead"? Sort of like Native American reservations? They would obviously have to accept government policy but would have an opportunity to elect their own representatives. I remember in 2010 when Merkel says German multicultural society has failed. At that time "more than 30% of people believed the country was 'overrun by foreigners.'" I wonder if she is planning to try a little harder to make that work or what.

[BlueMTexpat]

12. Just as is RW "Christianity"

which should be, frankly, a much more relevant concern in the US.

[Shandris]

17. Yes, the connection is TOTALLY similar.

One self-styled Christian shoots up a church. Eight self-styled Muslims backed by a leader with Islamic degrees leading a literal army of followers all like themselves which calls itself a Caliphate locks down an entire nation. Totally similar.

Now, I won't say you're a bigot. I'll just say you're wearing their clothes nicely.

[BlueMTexpat]

21. You are pretty free with

the term "bigot" so this will be my last interaction here with you.

[Shandris]

24. I'm sorry you don't like being called the truth.

And thank you. I take pride in the number of people who ignore me for spurious reasons.

[DhhD]

48. Agreed. Separation of Church and State is the problem for Reformists.

Moses taught Separation in the Old Testament.

For Evangelical Christians, Paul, Apostle of Christ, taught Separation in the New Testament. And that Christ would join Church and State at His Second Coming.

Charismatic Christians and Muslims do not believe in the Second Coming of Christ. The Islamic Republic of Iran already exist. ISIL is trying to set up a radical Sunni Republic in the Levant. Charismatic Christians like Cruz and Carson are trying to set up Christian Republic must first take down the government of the US; start by shut down the government and its Agencies and Department or privatizing them. HC has a record of Privatization for Profiteers. Big money supports HC.

[hifiguy]

25. Second every word.

[kentuck]

9. This is the way to defeat the terrorists...

repeat this verse one million times...

[FrodosPet]

29. Stay away from these, though

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/

Qu'ran 8.65

O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.

Qu'ran 9.5

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[oberliner]

18. Do you know what the next verse says?

Here is 5:33

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

[one_voice]

22. I think...

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

To wage war and make mischief in the land--I believe this would be the equivalent to what we know as a terrorist act--In other words to commit an act of war against them in their land. That's how I read it. I could be wrong.

[tishaLA]

28. as with many things, rational people and zealots read/understand the same words

very differently. A zealot could read that and see "those who wage war against Allah" as "all Jews and Christians"

[Fred Sanders]

26. The KKK is to Christianity as ISIS is to Islam. It is that simple. France gets it. America refuses.

[Throd]

27. I was wondering when you would show up with your equivocations.

[cali]

35. Say what?

France gets it? That's why the right is on the rise? In any case, you're wrong: the kkk is a feeble organisation. It isn't taking over swaths of territory or carrying out attacks. Comparing ISIS with the kkk of 1875 might have some validity, but comparing it to the kkk of 2015 is intellectually lazy and inaccurate.

[riderinthestorm]

45. Welcome back!

[Marr]

37. What a bizarre comparison.

ISIS' goals are openly, an exclusively, theocratic in nature.

It would be more accurate to say, 'this is an Islamic organization... as much as this is a caucasian organization'.

[Marr]

32. To a fundamentalist, unbelievers aren't "innocent". /nt

[one_voice]

39. Are all Muslims fundamentalists?

[Marr]

41. Obviously not. But if you look at the polling...

...there is surprisingly high support for ideas like 'gays should be executed' in the Muslim world. So while, obviously, not all Muslims are fundamentalists, I do think you may be underestimating the degree of support such views enjoy in the Muslim world.

[Herman4747]

40. ORIGINAL POSTER LEAVES OUT 1ST PART OF QURAN 5:32

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be in retaliation for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew all mankind: and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity. (Quran 5:32).

We note the past tense, "ordained," in 5:32 as well as the application to "the Children of Israel." An excellent discussion of Quran 5:32 is found at Wikiislam.

Let us turn our attention to two verses Muhammad said after he mentioned Quran 5:32. In Quran 9:111 we read,
9:111 Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah ? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

This does not sound like a religion favoring long-term peace, now does it?

Quran 9:123: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

It's time for humanity to move beyond religions whose inferior morality humanity no longer ascribes to.

[Fred Sanders]

46. Including Christianity, of course, which has similarily interpretable scriptures?

Which is not surprising since both share the same roots and both worship Jesus.

[Agnosticsherbet]

47. Moses said "Thou shall not kill" and Jesus "Turn the other cheek"

But that does not mean Christians and Jews do those things.

It is how a group interprets their religion, especially in a theocracy.

Daesh is a Muslim Theocratic State, and those Muslims who are members of that justify what they do as being God's will.

All religious are capable of wonderful and terrible things because they are human institutions.

[hobbit709]

50. And what did Moses do when he came down from the mountain?

Blew that one right away.

[Shandris]

51. What does the next one say?

http://quran.com/5/33%E0%B7%83%E0%B7%92%E0%B6%82%E0%B7%84%E0%B6%BD%E0%B7%9A%E0%B6%AF

Oh.

Well so much for that idea.