"What could terrorist do to us we don't do to ourselves?"

[kpete]

http://liberalsarecool.com/post/133364035650/lollipopcrumbs-accurate-point-when-someone

Meanwhile another white guy charged with shooting and killing 6 people.
Maybe NY should stop immigration from Texas
http://www.buzzfeed.com/adolfoflores/6-killed-in-texas-campsite-attack-suspect-charged-with-murde?bftwnews&utm_term=.ljwGPk4XB#.nkJwy4z1j …
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/white-americans-are-biggest-terror-threat-u-s-study-n380931?cid=sm_tw&hootPostID=286087e8a44bc73516c0825c60699e68

[malaise]

1. Fear the other

but leave my effing guns

[Hortensis]

40. I don't believe the appalling ignorance displayed on this thread.

Some terrorists and all rogue nations do have or can purchase the technology to kill many millions of Americans and disrupt our way of life for years. I suggest you read up on the ramifications of a successful cyberattack on even a regional chunk of our power grid. Many attacks are made on our grid every week; experts believe that inevitably eventually a serious one will succeed. Or an EMP set off in a location that could take our systems down over a whole region, believed less likely but very doable. And these are only a couple of the ways major attacks that would make 9/11 look like amateur hour could occur.

I choose to not worry about that congressional report estimation that a EMPs that took down our electronic systems coast to coast (two strong high-altitude nukes launched off both coasts perhaps) would result in the death of 90% of our population within a year from dehydration, starvation, disease, lack of medical care, civil unrest, etc. I like to think that'd be overkill, even for North Korea or ISIS, when any little amateur hour nuke purchased on the world market and set off from a tanker off one shore could be devastating and cripple our nation for a long time to come. Not our military, of course, which would be very busy, but the large number of Americans who would be suddenly equally busily occupied with survival.

BTW, even if we are dreadfully underprepared, I genuinely find it unpleasant but reassuring that laws are at least in place to allow governments at all levels to institute control. The ability to maintain control and not dissolve into chaos would be a good thing -- most of us probably wouldn't have to worry about giant murderous motorcycle gangs sweeping like locusts across the nation, like all those doomsday novels. But even in partial scenarios, burglary for supplies would be common, and we would have to plan to spend long hours each week in lines for food, and perhaps water, in areas where "extra" food stores, medicines, and anything and everything else needed for the common good could be confiscated as needed. Joining others at the family farm in the next state would might not be possible if the roads were closed.

This link is to an article on the Council on Foreign Relations site, which also has other articles on the subject.

In March 2013, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper identified cyberattacks as the greatest threat to U.S. national security. Critical infrastructure—the physical and virtual assets, systems, and networks vital to national and economic security, health, and safety—is vulnerable to cyberattacks by foreign governments, criminal entities, and lone actors. Due to the increasingly sophisticated, frequent, and disruptive nature of cyberattacks, such an attack on critical infrastructure could be significantly disruptive or potentially devastating. Policymakers and cybersecurity experts contend that energy is the most vulnerable industry; a large-scale attack could temporarily halt the supply of water, electricity, and gas, hinder transportation and communication, and cripple financial institutions.

(Note, "temporarily" doesn't mean a few days, more like a few months or years.)
http://www.cfr.org/global/global-conflict-tracker/p32137#!/?marker=2

[Koinos]

2. K & R

[jberryhill]

3. Yep

Totally bonkers

[stage left]

4. K&R

for a very good point.

[raccoon]

5. Ain't it the truth? The home-grown terrorists are much more of a threat to the US. nt

[Phentex]

6. So true...

people should be more afraid of what happens here at home.

[Waiting For Everyman]

7. So you think we don't have enough killers among us yet?

I guess we don't have enough, because we're being pressured to invite in some more. Brilliant!

[Javaman]

8. so are you equating refugees with terrorists?

Please explain.

[Waiting For Everyman]

9. Can you guarantee that a terrorist couldn't be among them?

How many terrorists are ok to sneak in with the refugees? One? Ten? Fifty?

I say none, but apparently you have a different answer, so I'm just wondering what that number is.

[Qutzupalotl]

10. Yes.

The U.S. has a long process of investigating everyone applying for refugee status that includes passing background checks by the FBI and DHS before even being interviewed. You will not see the same situation here that you saw in Europe.

[Javaman]

11. +1. Thanks. :)

It truly amazes me the level of ignorance I witness sometimes on DU.

[Waiting For Everyman]

12. Nope.

This group is NOT the same as any other refugee group because other groups did not come from a population that is bent on actively murdering us. That's point #1. Point #2, the authorities have no background to check against except the refugees' own say so. Point #3, ISIS captured 5000 blank passports.

You can't guarantee anything, nobody can. At best it's only a false sense of security.

[Pacifist Patriot]

19. No one can guarantee you won't be killed in a car accident this afternoon.

Anyone seeking a 100% guarantee of safety is not living in the real world.

You have more to fear from:

Automobiles
Americans with guns
Lightning
Heart Disease
Cancer

The increased relative risk with the admission of Syrian refugees is so small as to be practically unmeasurable. Silly fear overruling compassion is sickening.

[Waiting For Everyman]

22. Yep, it was small odds that those killed in Paris would be too.

But they're still dead. You're not, so that isn't significant odds.

Unavoidable risk is one thing, invited risk is another.

[Pacifist Patriot]

39. The invited risk is not great.

As I said in another post this morning.

"I know without doubt that I would prefer the risk of dying in a random terrorist act at the end of a shorter life filled with love, compassion, kindness, and adventure than die in my bed at the end of a long life of fear, suspicion, and hatred.

I'm not being flippant. I really have been considering this in light of all the commentary I have read and heard since the refugee crisis became news, and especially since Friday night's attacks.

In fact, now that I have a child who has left the nest, I have plenty of room in my home. I'd be happy to take a refugee or two and open my house to them if it came to that need."

If you'd prefer to shutter the windows, that's your decision. I just happen to think it's a ridiculous one. C'est la vie.

[Qutzupalotl]

35. The population is not bent on murdering us.

The population is running from the monster we helped create.

People who do not pass a background check with five federal agencies including the DoD, State Department, FBI & DHS will not even get an interview.

People with passports that do not check out will not get an interview. Period.

[Waiting For Everyman]

36. I said "come from a population" that does imply a section of it

and not the whole, doesn't it? I thought so, but maybe I'm wrong.

Well time will if all of that is done, won't it? I'd make a big bet that it won't stay on track, is all I can tell you.

[davidn3600]

37. DHS can't know every single ISIS sympathizer

Interviews are ridiculous. What refugee is going to go into an interview and say they like ISIS?

A British reporter just recently wrote a report about how easy was for him to buy a fake passport.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3320356/Fake-Syrian-passport-used-MailOnline-shocking-frailty-migrant-registration-used-suspected-Paris-terrorist-travel-Europe.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

A MailOnline investigation into the sale of Syrian passports and other identity papers revealed the way ISIS fighters were able to sneak into Europe alongside genuine refugees.

The documents, described as 'real' by a police forgery expert, exposed the frightening ease with which terrorist sleeper cells were able to cross the continent to carry out the devastating attacks in Paris.

The Syrian passport found among the remains of a suicide bomber who blew himself up outside the Stade de France was identical to the one obtained by MailOnline in just four days.

[NonMetro]

16. K & R!

[Blue_Adept]

18. Lebanon seems to be doing ok with the 1.1 million they've taken in

Surely we can handle the 65,000 that's being talked about at the moment, or the 100,000 through 2017.

Unless you're saying Lebanon is better at handling immigration than we are?

[Waiting For Everyman]

23. Lebanon is a country within the region.

[LanternWaste]

42. The precise, objective and relevant point of that being....?

The precise, objective and relevant point of that being....?

[Waiting For Everyman]

44. ...rather obvious.

[gcomeau]

21. Can you guarantee a terrorist...

...isn't on any fucking plane flying into the US right now?

Quick! Shut down all international travel into the country! We're too terrified and cowardly to do anything but huddle behind Fortress America's borders and fear the world!



Grow up.

[Waiting For Everyman]

24. Given that we STILL have visa waivers in place

it's altogether likely that a terrorist could be on "any fucking plane flying into the US right now".

Intelligence is not the same thing as fear; it only looks that way to those without it.

[gcomeau]

26. No, they almost never look the same actually.

And your posts have fear rolling off them in waves. You would advocate telling thousands of innocent terrorism VICTIMS to effectively fuck off and die rather than assume any miniscule level of risk yourself in order to give them aid and comfort... you want to cave to the terror tactics of those same terrorists and allow their threats to dictate your policy. In effect, to hand them victory. To strip compassion from the activities of the US government in the name of buttoning up your own personal security.

There is no word for that other than cowardice. Excuse me if I don't want to see the US turned into that. Fortunately Obama has integrity and isn't folding under the threat like some people are pleading with him to do while wringing their hands and trying to stop their knees from knocking together.

[Waiting For Everyman]

28. I simply won't be pushed into condoning something stupid

by a bunch of cheezey peer pressure which means nothing to me.

As far as serving the interest of the terrorists, it's much more to their advantage to see a "Trojan Horse" of refugees accepted here which they can enter with and hide among. Anyone who denies that is a huge advantage for ISIS is simply not honest at all.

I won't say what's rolling off your posts in waves, but I don't think I need to spell it out

[gcomeau]

29. Translation...

"Save me from the scary people! Build a wall! It's ummm, ummm... it's the smart thing to do! Cause one or two of 'em might be a bad guy!!!! Don't you all see???? Why aren't you smart like me??? Keep them away!!!"


Go fortify your basement or something. The terrorists probably won't find you in there.

[Waiting For Everyman]

30. Oh how clever!

Go speak for yourself or something. And by the way, I'm not interested in persuading you of anything. You can be as wrong as want, and it's just fine with me.

[gcomeau]

31. If you aren't interested in persuading others...

...then posting your arguments on a public discussion forum seems pretty damn pointless. But you keep telling yourself whatever you need to tell yourself to avoid facing the reality of how contemptible the position you just took was.

[Waiting For Everyman]

32. Run along now.

You're way out of your depth.

[gcomeau]

38. Wading pool? No, pretty comfortable at that depth actually.

It's relaxing. Non strenuous. None of that effort of keeping afloat in the deep end you know? Makes for a nice little break.

[LanternWaste]

43. I like to pretend that people who disagree with my premise are "as wrong as they want" too.

I like to pretend that people who disagree with my premise (a premise wholly unsupported by objective, peer-reviewed evidence) are "as wrong as they want" too.

However, I doubt I'll be able to rationalize it as creatively and deftly as you, regardless of the petulant irrelevancy of whether it's "just fine with me" or not...

[MattSh]

25. Oh, you want a guarantee in life...

May I ask what planet you are from?

There are no guarantees in life, at least not on this planet!

[Waiting For Everyman]

27. So you admit that terrorists can be among the refugees then?

That's what I said too. These arguing with me are insisting they CAN guarantee safety.

[treestar]

34. Terrorists could be among any grouping of people what soever

Look how there were two among the people we took in giving them asylum from Chechnya. That's always a risk. Maybe we should take no refugees from anywhere, any time.

In fact there should be no immigrants. One of them could turn out to be a criminal.

No foreign students. One of them was a 911 hijacker. We are more careful now, but there's no guarantees.

[LanternWaste]

46. I also admit an American terrorist shot nine parishioners to death in a Charleston church...

I also admit an American terrorist shot nine parishioners to death in a Charleston church rather recently. No doubt, they too thought their safety guaranteed. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

(insert distinction lacking any difference below to maintain pretense of logic)

[BlueJazz]

13. Oh yes. We love to wallow in our misery about gun deaths and then do nothing about it and the..

...main reason?? Well, I'll tell you...it's because...Oh Look! Something shiny!!

[valerief]

14. I take issue with that nbcnews links. White American MEN are

the biggest terror threat.

[NonMetro]

15. Oh! Is that who crashed planes into the WTC and the Pentagon on 9/11!

Murdered 129 people in Paris, put hundreds in the hospital, and brought down a passenger plane in Egypt on November 1. I didn't know that!

Yup, Islamic terrorists blow up people in Paris, and we turn our ire toward our own citizens.

ISIS will be most impressed to see how many apologists they have right here on DU!

Yup, American white men are the real enemy, the real Great Satin!

Gee, I guess if ISIS does carry out attacks in Washington DC, well, those bastard Americans will get what they deserve, eh?

[valerief]

20. Look at the graph with Number of American Deaths Caused by Terrorism vs. Gun Violence

at this link.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/03/us/gun-deaths-united-states/

U.S. gun violence kills significantly more people than terrorism -- even factoring in 9/11

[NonMetro]

33. I know.

Je Suis Parisiene!

[Moostache]

17. America's soul was on life support for decades before Sandy Hook...

That episode, and the impotent response to it, was the metaphorical Chief taking out Randle McMurphy, discarding the used up and lifeless soul of this nation and leaving in its place a heartless corporate-friendly, gun-loving disgrace.

Between over-zealous cops, over-armed thugs and under-controlled ammunition stock piles, my fear of ISIS is about 52nd on the list of possible concerns on a day-to-day basis...

Why fear terrorists a few thousand miles away when I live in a country with thousands of gun-owning freaks a few miles away?
The first politician to answer that gets my vote.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Americans are just much better at terror than the terrorists.

We kill millions. They kill a piddly few thousand. We have really super-duper technology and nuclear weapons and planes and ships. They're still fooling around with rifles, knives, and homemade bombs.

Because I do it with one small ship, I am called a terrorist. You do it with a whole fleet and are called an emperor. A pirate, from St. Augustine's "City of God"

[Codeine]

45. They've taken away our ability to pluralize correctly. nt