So really this was a terrorist attack, that is beyond doubt.

[Warren Stupidity]

The only question now is which murderous group did this and why. We will know soon enough. The one thing that can't happen is for this to be excused as "mental illness".

[annabanana]

1. or some weird "loner".. . . . . .n/t

[taught_me_patience]

3. There are three or four guys... kind of rules out "loner"

It could also be a paid hit, though.

[safeinOhio]

6. Small group of loners.

[valerief]

2. Oh, the GOP will run with the mental illness loner shit. They'll just

have to say there were three mentally ill loners this time.

[annabanana]

5. snort. .

would NOT surprise me...

[Chan790]

10. That would be a psychologically-unprecedented illness.

I would suspect and hope they'd be laughed at if they attempted to argue that this is an episode of group homicidal pathological mental illness.

[hifiguy]

14. The M$M propaganda catapulters will stroke their chins

thoughtfully, harrumph and nod in agreement to whatever spin is presented. No meaningful questions will be asked.

Count on it.

[0rganism]

17. unless it's somehow linked to Daesh

if the murderers turn out to be connected in any way to Daesh, or even Islam by way of a clerical error, expect this country to swerve hard right for the next 20 years and demand carpet bombing of Syria. and a wall on the Mexican border.

[ManiacJoe]

4. Do you have info on the motive for the crime?

Or are you just speculating?

[Warren Stupidity]

11. series?

A planned attack on a soft target.

[ManiacJoe]

13. Yes, serious.

To be terrorism, the motive needs to be at least remotely political; thus the definition of terrorism.
To accurately make the terrorism claim requires knowledge of the motive.
You either have that knowledge and are not sharing, or you are just speculating.

[Luminous Animal]

7. If it was a revenge shooting, as is now being suggested as a possible motive... Then no, not a

terrorist attack.

[Warpy]

8. Give it the 72 hour sniff test

Rumors will fly like crazy but after 72 hours, we will know what the scoop is, or at least as much of it as the police are willing to admit to.

[NutmegYankee]

9. A group of three is clearly an organized attack.

I'm interested to know the motive.

[Tipperary]

12. We just do not know that yet.

Numerous stories circulating that there was some sort of dispute at the holiday party.

[Angry Dragon]

15. christian terrorists

[Codeine]

18. Where are you getting that information? nt

[Angry Dragon]

47. Fox News

[Nye Bevan]

20. Really? (nt)

[leftynyc]

21. Your post is exactly why I stayed

off DU last night. I knew there would be those hoping, wishing, praying it would be Christian terrorists without an ounce of proof. So now that we know it was likely Islamic terrorists, not Christians, now what? Still want to tag an entire religion?

[LannyDeVaney]

28. I'll just tag ALL religions ...

but thanks for your concern and prayers. Keep 'em coming! It's helping a TON.

[leftynyc]

31. Spare me the bullshit

You haven't been here long enough to see the garbage I have. Christianity gets trashed DAILY. Islam gets a special pass time and time again. Bill Maher was absolutely right.

[ileus]

40. That's because we see Christians as friends of the GOP

and Muslims as enemies of the GOP...

[leftynyc]

45. Oh - I'm well aware

of the dynamics of that bullshit but that doesn't make it not bullshit. Frankly, too many people in our party are cowards who are so afraid of not appearing to be perfectly politically correct, they wind up looking like idiots. All you have to do is look at the reaction to the Planned Parenthood shootings and the San Bernadino shootings.

[smirkymonkey]

57. Quite a contrast, yet so many of them fail to see their own hypocrisy.

[Angry Dragon]

49. Perhaps it is time to call out all the fake christians ...............

I fear all people who think their religion gives them a free pass

[leftynyc]

53. Perhaps it's simply

time not to be hypocrites and treat all religions the same. Christians get called out daily here.

[Angry Dragon]

54. as do the atheists and agnostics

[leftynyc]

55. Yes to those as well

It's ONLY Islam that gets a pass with liberals. I'm tired of turning a blind eye to that bullshit. I started calling it out around 6 months ago. It was very freeing.

[randys1]

29. Wait, you are accusing him of tagging an entire religion? Did you read what YOU wrote?

[leftynyc]

32. Yes

Because on DU you will NEVER see someone saying merely Islamic Terrorists without the post getting hidden or the poster getting trashed with words like Islamophobe and hater. Islam gets a pass around here that no other religion gets.

[Democat]

33. Only white Christians can be terrorists according to many on DU

Everything else is Bush's fault.

[leftynyc]

35. It's not quite that bad

But, like many liberals, DU has a blind spot for Islamic terrorism. They're cowards who wont call it what it is and think anyone who brings it up is ted cruz (a charge I got thrown at me just yesterday). It's maddening.

[smirkymonkey]

50. I agree with you. It's pretty ridiculous and incredibly hypocritical.

I pretty much slam all religions equally, but it's interesting to see some of the biggest Christian bashers go all PC when it comes to Islam.

[melman]

56. DU on Colorado: Terrorist! White Christian Terrorist!

DU today: Well we don't know, could be a lot of things. Maybe workplace violence? Mustn't rush to judgement blahblahblah...

[Reter]

43. It's natural to "hope" it's not from a group that will hurt your Party of choice

I work with a Republican who said when it was happening she hopes it's from a Syrian refugee saying God is great in arabic.

[leftynyc]

46. It may very well be natural

That doesn't mean it's not complete bullshit to engage in such hypocrisy.

[hrmjustin]

51. Looks like you were wrong.

[Angry Dragon]

52. I just start off blaming the christians and republicans and go from there

just using the republican talking points and reversing them

[TeeYiYi]

16. This song...

...has been running through my mind all afternoon. I just can't seem to shake the 'irony'...

TYY

ETA: For anyone who doesn't recognize the 'irony', this is the band that was targeted in the Paris massacre. I don't actually believe that there is a connection, but it's a hell of a coincidence.

[840high]

19. I'll wait till facts come out.

[Vinca]

22. I don't understand the reluctance to call this terrorism.

Whether it was an attack by the demon brown people or a crazy white person, it was terrorism.

[Shrek]

39. It's generally accepted that terrorism involves a political or ideological objective

It's not yet clear that such a motive exists here.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. The facts are confirming this, but it was obvious.

This was a planned assault intended to kill many people. The only question when I posted this was which variety of ideological malfunction was motivating the attack. That is now fairly certain as well

[LannyDeVaney]

27. If it's so certain ...

please enlighten me on which variety of ideological malfunction motivated the attack.

[Warren Stupidity]

42. I'll go way out on a limb and choose radical

Islam for 500, Alec.

[Matrosov]

24. I laugh when some people want to push the 'workplace violence' explanation

How many workers keep their rifles, pistols, bulletproof vests, and significant other in the car, just in case someone pisses them off at work?

[spanone]

25. has ISIS claimed responsibility? or any group? shouldn't they be gloating by now?

[Warren Stupidity]

58. Isis gloated shortly after the attack, however

I did not claim nor do I think it likely that these two were taking orders from Isis. Instead my guess is that they acted on their own.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. It seems very strange to me that a couple with a new baby would do this.

I mean, it seems strange that anyone would do this, obviously, but the whole thing is very weird, even from a terrorism perspective.

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. It doesn't when you really think about what drives people.

My husband loved me and our children. It hurts to think that he would do what he did... but he did. Did it mean he didn't love us? I think it means we were the last thing on his mind. If only.

The "strange" comes from not ever having experience with that motivation in my opinion. I can't imagine leaving my children, therefore I would never kill myself or commit a heinous crime.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. I guess. But even in cases where you have one fucked up/deranged parent...

Here you've got two, working in concert.

The whole thing is weird.

The minute I had a baby my entire existence suddenly and irrevocably shifted towards me doing absolutely everything i could to ensure that I would be there to take care of this tiny human. That seems innate, natural. Healthy.

I mean, I think people who believe they have an invisible friend in the sky who cares about their sex life, is weird. When that invisible friend starts telling them to ignore geological evidence because the earth is only 6,000 years old... Even weirder.

When said invisible friend starts exhorting them to kill people who dont believe in the same invisible friend..

Maybe it's no coincidence that the central foundational ur-narrative of western monotheism involves a demand upon a believer to demonstrate his "faith" by sacrificing his child.

Okay, I admit I understand exactly none of it.

[Matrosov]

36. I think the invisible friend in the sky is the key

The baby is actually one of two reasons I believe this was an act of terrorism. The first one is that this was much too well planned in advance to be a heat-of-the-moment decision, and in fact it was better planned than most mass shootings in recent memory.

As for the baby..who would carry out such an act of violence, risk certain death, and then leave their child without parents? People who think the invisible friend in the sky is going to reward them for their act of violence in the first place, especially if they sacrifice their lives in the process.

They can then justify the harm they are causing their baby and the rest of their family by telling themselves the invisible friend will also bless their baby and the rest of their family as a reward for the sacrifices of these two.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Yep. I agree with you.

And I think that's the common thread that runs through a lot of this stuff, right there.

[951-Riverside]

38. The baby was cover IMO

Commie putin russian agents do this all the time just look up the "Illegals" Program.

[WestCoastLib]

41. On the contrary. A new baby is a motivating factor.

Having a new baby tends to make you less selfish and more motivated for thinking about things such as the future of the world your child will grow up in, or doing things such as making the world or your community a better place, or fighting for your child. People, formerly without strong convictions, or at least who don't act on those convictions, often find their convictions have grown stronger when they have a child. When they may have sat back and let things go when it was just them and their spouse, now that they have a child, they often feel that they won't just sit and passively allow things to go on as they would have without a child to think about.

If your worldview is one in which "the West" or "Non-believers" or "Heathens" or whatever group you want to place here are a threat to the future you want your child to grow up in, this is a motivating factor, not a deterrent.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. uh, yeah.

Still doesn't make any fucking sense to me.

[Rex]

48. Yeah...but hey maybe they meant to rob a bank or something.

Got to keep with the excuses.