Community Wants Atheist Santa Billboard Taken Down

[KamaAina]

http://www.fox26houston.com/news/56870608-story

Residents in a North Carolina town are upset after an Atheist group put up a Santa billboard telling people to skip church. It sits off Business 40 Eastbound in Kernersville for thousands of drivers to see....

The billboard reads: "Go ahead and skip church! Just be good for goodness' sake. Happy Holidays!"...

"It is beyond disrespectful to my community and disrespectful to my beliefs," said a local resident.

It's a sign that seems out of place in a large faith-based community like Piedmont, but the New Jersey based group behind it, American Atheists, said that was part of the point.

I wonder how far this is from the town where the solar farm sucked up all the sun's energy?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017314413

[DavidDvorkin]

1. "Disrespectful to my beliefs." Awww.

[arcane1]

2. I bet that resident complains about PC and "everyone always getting offended"

[smirkymonkey]

3. +1000

The religious right have such thin skins. If other people are hurt or offended, that's just too bad. But god forbid anyone give them a taste of their own medicine.

[tech3149]

10. They aren't really thin skinned, they don't give two squats

They just rely on playing the victim card because they don't have anything else. After that they have to assert that if you have no faith in some Bronze age religious interpretation of reality you can't have any moral or ethical standard in your behavior.

[meow2u3]

36. The answer to the atheist Santa billboard should be to put one up of their own

Not to suppress speech they don't like.

A Christian would put up a sign such as "Keep Christ in Christmas." A Christianist would push to have the atheist sign taken down. See the difference now?

[yeoman6987]

29. Why don't they put up their own sign? Seems reasonable instead of complaining.

The other thing I find strange is they get upset about nativity sets in public spaces but if ever Christian put up a nativity scene on their yard. They'd have plenty. They certainly are not smart.

[meow2u3]

37. That's because the Religious Right has no respect for free speech

They'd push to see the Consititution abolished before having to accept that people have religious--and non-religious--views other than their own shown to the public.

They're the ones trying to establish fundamentalist Christianity as the official religion, damn the Consitution. They'd also be very quick to throw Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and mainline Protestants in jail for not converting to their twisted version of Xtianity.

[Mariana]

75. They want the government (at whatever level)

to endorse their particular religion and their religious holidays. That's why it's so important to them to have their nativity scenes, crosses, 10 commandments plaques, or whatever displayed in public spaces. Certainly every church and every individual Christian homeowner could put a nativity scene in their front yards, and plenty of them do, but that's just not the same.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Too f'ing bad.

[earthside]

5. One in Colorado Springs, too.

Last year's sign.

?1

[niyad]

16. I have not seen that one yet, where is it? the fundy heads around here must be exploding.

[TipTok]

23. North 25 I believe...

[niyad]

43. haven't been on the highway recently. must tell all my friends to look for it!

[rockfordfile]

76. I like that

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Spreading the idea of "being good for goodness' sake" disrespects their deeply-held beliefs ...

... in Republicanism.

What is a "faith-based community", anyway? Do they all rent from the Catholic church or something?

[Snobblevitch]

7. Sometimes people are not comfortable

when people with beliefs contrary to their own choose to express them.

[ms liberty]

8. This is a burb in the Winston Salem area.

About an hour east from me.

[tishaLA]

74. it's in the research triangle?

and it's getting that kind of pearl clutching? that's disappointing

[ms liberty]

83. No, Winston Salem is not the Research Triangle

The Research Triangle area is Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill; it is about two and a half hours east of me, and about an hour to an hour and a half east of Winston Salem.

[SDJay]

9. Butbutbut...

What about THE FREE MARKET IS ALWAYS RIGHT! Didn't someone pay real money for these billboards?

These idiots don't even seem to realize when they're chasing their own tails.

Good for the folks who put these up. I hope now more of them show up all over the place.

[mnhtnbb]

11. Kernersville is between Winston-Salem (to the west) and Greensboro (to the east)

in an area known as the Piedmont of NC. It's a pretty right wing, conservative area.

Woodland (where the solar panel objections occurred) is east of 95 and about an hour and a half's drive from
the Outer Banks. It's very rural, conservative, and very small town compared to Winston-Salem area and not largely populated.

[truegrit44]

12. I Love it!

As a devout Atheist I really like "be good for goodness sake"! So tired of all these signs about going to hell, loving god, blah, blah, blah........this is refreshing

[peabody]

28. I love it too!

"Be good for goodness sake" says it all. I want to post it up on my Facebook page just to see what kind of replies I get from my hardcore religious friends and family members.

[Bucky]

13. I used to have a conservative friend who'd argue "You don't have a right NOT to be offended"

it was something of a conservative meme in the 90s. This is before pouty pissypants culture took over the Republican Party

[Matariki]

14. Why do Atheists have to insult other people's beliefs to define their own?

Why can't they simply say, I don't believe in god, or life after death, or whatever it is they believe? Rather than calling other folk's beliefs 'fairy tales' or whatever?

[jmowreader]

15. I guess it's because the far right is just so open and loving...

[niyad]

17. umm, possibly because they are reacting to all the hatred and vitriol spewed by the fundie

reichwingnuts, who have no problem heaping scorn on other people.

[whatthehey]

19. Where is the insult. Specify. Explain. What the fuck is the problem?

[Logical]

20. Why do religious people put up billboards? Nt

[Nevernose]

22. That's EXACTLY what this billboard was doing

It didn't call anyone's beliefs fairy tales or anything else.

In general, atheists believe that other folks religious beliefs are fairy tales. So what's the problem with them sharing that belief?

[Matariki]

73. I think the message "be good for goodness sake" is great

If they'd let the "Don't go to church" bit off I'd agree with you.

[Act_of_Reparation]

82. "Don't go to church" offends you?

Why?

[Matariki]

99. No it doesn't offend me. It indicates who the billboard is targeting.

And therefore it is disingenuous to say that the message isn't intended to insult other people's religion. When clearly it is.

Why not just the "Be good for goodness' sake" and Happy Holidays and sign it American Atheists? Why direct the message specifically to Christians?

[Arugula Latte]

127. Why is it okay for Christians to proclaim their beliefs but not for other people?

Nice double standard you've got there.

[Matariki]

129. Hey, Arugula Latte

You clearly didn't understand a word I wrote if that's what you took away from it.

[Arugula Latte]

155. You don't seem to be applying your tsk-tsk-tsking to anyone but atheists.

These signs were defaced by religious zealots who didn't like that atheists picked up litter on the highways, or that atheists even exist. I never hear tongue clucking over this type of stuff. It's always: "Those atheists are just rude and unpleasant! Why do they have to upset people by actually expressing their ideas?!"

[Laffy Kat]

131. If you are a Christian, why on Earth would this offend you?

Respectfully, turn the other cheek. Believing it is "targeting" Christians is a bit paranoid.

[Matariki]

135. Good gods, I'm not a farking Christian. I've said that numerous times.

Sheesh. I'm a devil worshiping satanist as far as most christians are concerned.

I simply asked why so many atheist define there beliefs in terms of deriding others', instead of simply saying they don't believe in a supernatural being or whatever.

Too many people write knee jerk responses without reading or understanding what they're responding to. Not worth the time.

[Laffy Kat]

149. My apologies.

I still don't get the offense, though.

[Nevernose]

98. How is that any different from "go to our church?"

It's not insulting anyone, it's sharing a belief in a funny, polite manner.

[Matariki]

100. Implying a person will 'go to hell' or whatever if they don't go to church is equally obnoxious.

Why behave like the assholes you are critical of?

[NYC Liberal]

102. Because sometimes that's the only way to get the message across,

is if people acting nasty get the nastiness thrown back at them. Then they understand how others feel.

[Matariki]

104. No, it's not. It makes people double down.

And anyway, what exactly is the "message" you want to get across? That their beliefs are stupid?

If you think that you can teach people empathy that way...

[NYC Liberal]

116. The message that fear and superstition can be overcome.

That's a positive message.

[RedCappedBandit]

120. How is reassuring people within a marginalized community

that it's okay to be members of that community equivalent to threatening eternal damnation for failure to participate in the dominant culture?

These billboards target atheists living in communities where being an atheist might not be so widely accepted and are intended to reassure them that they're not alone. The implication that that is insulting to anyone is heinous.

[Kalidurga]

26. I think it's because belief is mythology

some people call mythology fairy tales.

[leftyladyfrommo]

118. That's just your opinion.

You have every right to that opinion.

It's all opinion. No one knows anything for sure. There's no way to know.

No reason to be awful to other people who disagree with you. No reason to cram what you think down someone else's throat.

Often the anti people are just as fanatical as the pro people. It's all rude.

[Kalidurga]

122. You should try to be more accepting of people who don't believe in fairy tales

Even if they are fanatical. It's actually probably better to be tolerant if they are fanatical you never know with that type. They might start a war against Christmas or something.

[RedCappedBandit]

32. Please. Atheists simply proclaim their existence and certain people take it as an insult.

What, specifically, is insulting about this billboard?

Yeah, just be good for goodness' sake. What a terrible idea. I can see why you would feel insulted by that.



You realize that, as atheists, our perception is that religious beliefs are myths? Should I feel insulted that you don't believe the same things I believe? Why do you think I'M wrong? How dare you?

[leftyladyfrommo]

119. My guess is that everybody's wrong. nt

[Arugula Latte]

126. Start with no assumptions, then build your case based on evidence,

instead of saying "this particular loony version of a supernatural realm is OBVIOUSLY the real deal!" from the get-go. Where is the evidence for supernatural phenomena and supernatural beings? Why assume something is there based on zero evidence?

[leftyladyfrommo]

133. I'm a mystic. And a Zen Buddhist.

I don't really belive in having opinions on anything.

We just dwell in emptyness. It's nice there.

[Arugula Latte]

154. That makes you refreshingly different from most slightly-zealous-to-rabid religious people.

[leftyladyfrommo]

156. Not all religious people are angry zealots.

I haven't really run into that with the mainstream churches like the Methodists or Presbyterians or Episcopalian or Lutheran churches. And I have lots of Catholic friends who aren't radical at all. I have known lots of really nice people who are pretty religious.

But living in the Bible Belt I am familiar with the zealots and they can be very unpleasant. I just ignore them. It's their right to believe whatever they want but I choose not to listen to it. And they are a rather small minority but they make a lot of noise. I just refuse to talk about anything religious with them. So we get along ok.

And nobody knows anything about Zen so they just leave me alone. Which is fine. Zen people are all kind of loners anyway. I really believe that mystics are just born that way. You either understand it or you don't.

[snooper2]

42. because we are reaching out to the children...ridicule and mockery actually work

When teenagers and young adults realize that, yeah, it is pretty silly what they have been "taught" they tend to stray away from it.


In 300 years the religious, at least in Western society, will be a small but loud fundy segment of society.

[Matariki]

71. I'm not a Christian. As I've matured

I've come to realize that mocking other people's religion doesn't make the world a better place. It isn't a respectful way to go through life.

I notice many of the replies to my post justify being dickish to people is because 'they did it first'. Can't think of anything much more childish than that.

I'm neither a christian or an atheist but can respect that people find their truth and meaning from either. I'm just curious about what I'd call 'fundamentalist atheists'. They seem the define themselves more by their scorn for others than their own core beliefs.

[snooper2]

88. I'm not following the "did it first", but tend to disagree on the respect thing...

I think extraordinary claims require large amounts of verifiable evidence. When you give respect it is tantamount to giving acceptance and justification to those extraordinary beliefs.


Regardless of our thoughts, it is working. This YouTube channel has over 76 million views because of greatness like this.

"The end is greatness "



If God Played Minecraft

&feature=iv&src_vid=2he4FGsafCA&annotation_id=annotation_439414985

[Matariki]

101. Do you extend your disrespect to Muslims, Jews, Hindus?

Because that's pretty dickish.

[snooper2]

105. religion = mythology... Some mythology makes for good stories and movies though

Like the Kracken in Clash of the Titans

[brooklynite]

54. "Atheist Santa"

A guy people believe in without evidence of his existence, who magically travels around the world visiting every home in a single night, and who punishes or rewards based on his own standards of behavior.

Doesn't sound atheist to me...

[TipTok]

57. The difference, of course, is that no one of sound mind really believes in Santa...

... and no one tries to create law and policy, that the rest of us are obligated to follow, based on what puts folks in the nice or naughty category.

[brooklynite]

62. You better watch out - You better not cry - Better not pout

I'm telling you why

[TipTok]

79. Santa Claus is coming to town...

... and putting you on the no-fly list.

[JHB]

89. Why do you speak of atheists as a monolithic bloc?

Answer that question and you answer your own: because atheists, being people, come with all sorts of personalities, just like everyone else. Including the parts where some feel the need to jab at some who jab at them, and a few who are just assholes.

You don't notice those of us atheists who already do pretty much what you ask, because there's nothing to draw notice.

I wonder if those signs are there because the area is home base for a particularly belligerent church or group.

[lindysalsagal]

110. Because they're fairy tales.

Right up there with Elves, Santa, unicorns, Leprechauns, the Loch Ness Monster and the Tooth Fairy.

And these fairy tales cause real suffering in the world.

[Arugula Latte]

125. Why do Theists have to insult other people's beliefs to define their own?

Why can't they simply say, I don't believe in atheism, or anti-afterlifeism, or whatever it is they believe? Rather than calling other folks' beliefs wrong or implying that they will burn in hell or that they're anti-American or whatever?

[callous taoboy]

140. Target of religious bigotry here:

My character in this small town has been much-maligned because I am a perceived non-believer. So anyone offended by that billboard, I say get over it.

[Orsino]

147. Do you see an insult somewhere on that billboard?

Is it insulting to suggest that church attendance be optional?

[justiceischeap]

152. The problem with atheists

isn't an atheists tendency to be vocal about what we think of religion, it's that theists see our outspokenness as an affront to their beliefs. It's not insulting to say we think that the Bible is a great work of fiction that was (and is) used for controlling the masses through fear or that people shouldn't believe in fairy tales. It's an opinion that people don't like to hear, so therefore, they label it insulting.

As an atheist, I'm happy for you to believe (or not believe) whatever you'd like but keep in mind, that to some of us that come from religious backgrounds, see the theist community filled with pride, vanity and hypocrisy when it comes to their religious beliefs. According to the Bible, one should not be boastful about their religious beliefs because it's tied up in those very sins: vanity, pride and often hypocrisy. I'm using words straight from the Bible by the way, so when we see this and point it out, though we're atheists, we're actually being good theists (according to the Bible). Again, that's not insulting, it's being honest about what we see or have been taught in our previous lives as theists.

I know not all theists are assholes, just like not all atheists are assholes but people like to put things in boxes, so that being said, most theists will always be assholes to some and most atheists will always be assholes to others.

I think whining about one group putting another group down without acknowledging that it's a two-way street is tiring, and I for one, have grown weary of seeing the "why do atheists have to insult people" meme when what we're really doing is putting down a book that should be no more sacred than any other book, IMO. So yeah, everyone insults everyone in some way, two wrongs don't make a right but atheists aren't the only one's being assholes (according to your statement).

[niyad]

18. goodness, are there enough fainting couches and pearls for the delicate little dears?

here, they can have some of my special smelling salts.

oooooppsss--that was the vial with the pepper juice in it!

[Initech]

21. Persecution card played on O'Reilly in 3...2...1...

[Egnever]

24. Atheism is looking more and more like a religion of it's own every day.

[Iggo]

25. How so?

[muriel_volestrangler]

39. Because religions are defined by their use of billboards, silly

Before the adoption of papyrus and parchment, the Rigveda, Torah, Bible, and Koran were all written as graffiti on rocks by the road side. You had to go on a day's walk just to finish a chapter. If it's not in letters at least a foot high, it's not holy scripture. Just ask the prophet Burma-Shave (i mean, a name like that must be religious, mustn't it?)

[Iggo]

40. Of course. That makes perfect sense.

Thanks for that excellent information!

[anoNY42]

45. OFFENDED

The Burma-Shave remark is offensive to those who prefer to call it "Myanmar"...

[dmr]

50. Prophet Burma Shave

[Orrex]

38. That's the standard plea of religionists desperate to frame the world by their own dogma

Those who insist that atheism is a religion understand neither atheism nor religion.

[Iggo]

41. When they insult religion while trying to insult atheism, it goes right over their heads, don't it?

[Orrex]

48. It's always a surprise to see it again and again and again...

Atheism is a religion like the lack of measles is a disease.

Indeed, it goes right over their heads.

[LanternWaste]

59. Creative, though unsupported allegation... like a bumper-sticker sans wit.

Creative, though unsupported allegation... like a bumper-sticker sans wit.

[Arugula Latte]

128. I'm always amazed that so many DU "progressives" seem to think that only religious

people should be able to freely express their beliefs.

It astounds me.

[Egnever]

130. What an odd thing to say.

Was that a response to my post?

I don't think I mentioned anyone being able to express their beliefs.

[ronnie624]

134. Hardly odd.

The fundamentalist who commented in the article wants to silence atheists, and then you post a comment criticizing them also, seemingly expressing solidarity with her. Why would anyone think you didn't agree with her?

[Egnever]

137. Didn't read the article

Why would I bother? Useless information.

The sign says enough. Now the atheists need to group together to get their hate on as well. Looks a lot like a religion to me.

[ronnie624]

148. Atheism is the absence of religious beliefs, actually.

And expressing doubt about religious doctrine is not 'hate'.

Can't you see the lack of logic in your comments?

[JackRiddler]

27. The use of Santa is so stupid.

Santa is a religious figure. The religion is consumerism. New Atheism distinguishes itself by its acceptance of everything in the dominant ideology other than God-based religion. Big fucking deal. Like New Atheism the billboard is trivial minded and reactionary, it's just there to troll fundamentalists.

How about Galileo? Or Marx? Or anything other than a Coca-Cola advertisement ca. 1914?

[anoNY42]

47. Know your audience

"How about Galileo? Or Marx? Or anything other than a Coca-Cola advertisement ca. 1914?"

Because these atheists know their audience. This is a conservative, religious area, so they just wouldn't understand who Galileo or Marx was. But they understand Santa, since he is basically the same as the Sky Fairy they worship.

[Iggo]

69. Santa works better in the long game, too.

Keep equating Santa with God, Santa with God, Santa with God.

Then when the kids realize there's no Santa...

[JackRiddler]

92. Yeah, that might work with pavlov's dogs maybe.

[Iggo]

95. Also works with children.

Thankfully.

[JackRiddler]

124. So the children living around some North Carolina highway...

have been saved! Hallelujah!

[JackRiddler]

91. It's not their audience at all.

The billboard trolls fundamentalists with a triviality. (Who says church is necessarily a bad thing, by the way? Something that New Atheists do not understand from their position of privilege at all - that people want community.)

Ahem, as I was saying: The billboard cannot possibly win over fundamentalists. It is designed to troll them and prompt them to react, so as to produce headlines and responses back in the neighborhoods of the New Atheists, so that they can feel smug as though they did something that matters.

Why are they telling people to skip church (where their friends may be) as opposed to making a logical or doctrinal point about the dangers of fanatical irrational belief? Do you see the difference? This is just insulting the people for being stupid - a form of ad hominem. It doesn't make an argument against what they believe.

[muriel_volestrangler]

97. The world, and even North Carolina, is not divided into just atheists and fundamentalists

There are also people who have a vague relation to Christianity, who are the kind of people who won't go to church often, but turn up when they feel "they ought to". So this advert is suggesting to them that attendance is not only not mandatory, it's not a part of being 'good' either - you can work out what you think is 'good' without a preacher telling you, or the disapproval of your neighbours for not turning up at church implying you've done something wrong.

if you start from the assumption that atheists are trolls, and therefore their audience must be the people who would be most offended by a message, you're just going to see trolling, and you'll end up seeing the whole message as insulting, because that's what you expect from a troll. But that is, ironically, an ad hominem. You're arguing that because it's atheists saying it, it must be insulting.

[JackRiddler]

123. I don't start from any assumption about atheists.

Being one myself, at least with regard to sentient single-entity planner-creators of everything, and knowing a great many otherwise.

I have developed a particular set of observations about the counterproductive, narrow New Atheist schtick, however, mostly from first-hand experience of going to a bunch of NA-inflected atheist meetings some years ago in New York. Mostly likable people (unlike, say their matinee idols, Harris, Hitchens and Maar) and not bad as drinking partners. Tend to be on the autistic-libertarian-idealist side of things, not that I mind too much. Their PR sense is certainly terrible, as with the series of Santa ads, and they're willing to pander to nationalism, as with the campaign to get "under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance. (The only credible and consistent position with regard to Pledges of Allegiance is that the entire text should be struck and forgotten as a quasi-totalitarian relic.) The worldview is too narrow. It's not enough to make a drama out of rejecting non-natural gods and pretend this is the first solution to the ills of the world.

[rockfordfile]

77. It's great

Your made up crap is so weak that a billboard has you going ape bunkers.

[JackRiddler]

93. Excuse me?

Thank you for illustrating a high level of relevant argument. No doubt this is exactly the pitch that will win things for New Atheism over fundamentalists. I promise not to "make up" anything again, such as that the New Atheists use Santa for their campaign and don't address questions of belief in it.

It's "bonkers," by the way, not bunkers, and it's either "ape shit" or "bonkers," not "ape bonkers."

[lindysalsagal]

111. Because it's ironic that an imaginary Santa is more moral than

the official religious party line: Everyone already accepts that Santa isn't real, but the truth is, he knows that goodness, in and of itself, is the higher morality.

With religion, there's always that nasty secondary consequence, you know, heaven, hell, etc. Santa knows that goodness is it's own best reason, not some other secondary result, like getting presents from your parents.....

[Scuba]

30. They love playing the victim.

[BlueJazz]

31. Just suck it up like everybody else does. There's lots of crap we all put up with every day.

Lousy drivers, slow-ass people at the grocery store and a cornucopia of other stuff. My feelings get hurt 10 times a day. It's called life.

[leeroysphitz]

33. Lousy free speech. I wish I was blind. n/t

[Facility Inspector]

34. Krampus and Saturnalia are the reasons for the season

Jesus was born in the summer.

[KamaAina]

44. I thought it was the spring

the sign of Pisces, hence, the Piscean age (to be followed by the Age of Aquarius, Age of Aquarius...)

[anoNY42]

49. The earth's tilt is the real reason for the seasons...

[Facility Inspector]

53. well it sure as fuck ain't Jesus

[LanternWaste]

60. Acculturation is the reason...

Acculturation is the reason...

[snooper2]

144. Zombie Jesus was born in the Spring

[Vinca]

35. Whether put up by atheists or not, it makes a good point.

Christmas is 99.9% Santa and gift buying. I bet there is a good chunk of the population that can't even tell you what it's supposed to be celebrating.

[KittyWampus]

46. Too bad they couldn't put up a positive statement about their beliefs

But opted to be insulting jerks instead.

Technically, I am an athiest. But I sure as heck don't identify with the majority of those who call themselves that.

Immature. Like adolescents needing to "get even".

HEY, they were obnoxious first….

Which is essentially what almost every post on this thread has said so far.

[NightWatcher]

51. Where's the insult?

The South is full of religious billboards threatening condemnation, scaring poor pregnant girls, and ...

How is "skip church and just be good" an insult?

[KittyWampus]

56. Mommy, they did it firssssssssssst.

Telling people to just "skip church", which is a meaningful practice for many who are both liberal and conservative, is insulting.

And it's very telling so many atheists seem incapable of expressing themselves in a positive manner. It's mostly a philosophical weakness, I suppose.

[JHB]

90. Is it 'telling', or selection bias?

If you only notice when there's some kerfluffle, don't you only notice people involved with it? How do you notice people not involved in the kerfluffle?

[snooper2]

145. You may have a point, maybe atheists should actually start going to church!

We can all enjoy it together and discuss!

[anoNY42]

52. What beliefs?

"Too bad they couldn't put up a positive statement about their beliefs"

Too bad they don't have "beliefs", which means there is nothing they could put on that sign that would satisfy you.

Or, to argue in the alternative, perhaps their belief is that one should be "good for goodness sake". That sounds pretty inoffensive, if you ask me. Much better than the idea that being good gets you into heaven (which means that all of your charity is really not so selfless after all)...

[KittyWampus]

58. Pretty much every human on the planet has a world view.

The exceptions are those with an extremely low IQ.

So again, it seems many atheists are intelligent but not philosophically well rounded.

[muriel_volestrangler]

64. Do you regard "just be good for goodness' sake" as negative, then?

You've rejected it as a positive worldview. Why is saying it a sign they are "not philosophically well rounded"?

[KittyWampus]

67. -skip church- is telling people NOT to do something.

Edit- and we both know according to human psychology that telling people NOT to do something almost never works and is counter-productive. It causes a defensive reaction.

[muriel_volestrangler]

72. "Too bad they couldn't put up a positive statement about their beliefs"

Why is "be good for goodness' sake" not positive?

"telling people NOT to do something almost never works and is counter-productive. It causes a defensive reaction. "

Have you counted the number of "do not"s in the Ten Commandments? Or, to be more seasonal, is "fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people" a counter-productive message that would have caused shepherds to be afraid? Just like the billboard message, that is "don't do that - do this instead".

[KittyWampus]

86. setting aside "skip church" there's "just be good for goodness sake"

so besides telling people not to go to church

they are saying "just be good for goodness sake" which is as OPPOSED to Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Jains, Sikkhs being good as part of a moral code.

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. I wouldn't say it opposes the religious moral codes

The given reason is slightly different - idealistic rather than supernatural - but it's pretty close. Are you saying you think that a moral code needs a supernatural reason to be 'positive'?

[hatrack]

94. Kind of like the Ten Commandments, right?

.

[The2ndWheel]

70. You did sort of not quote the first part

The skip church part. I imagine that would be the negative aspect of it, from the point of view of those that go to church.

Then again, even if the billboard said "Merry Christmas from the atheists", people could see that as mocking, because it wouldn't be thought of as sincere. Then there's the Christians that force Christmas on everyone. And round and round we go.

[Matariki]

107. I for one could live without the 30+ days of Christmas.

I wish the christians could keep it to one or two days. Or perhaps I mean the capitalists. I also think the American Atheists could make their message a little less outwardly focused.

[RedCappedBandit]

121. They're saying it's OK to be an atheist. How is that not a positive statement? nt

[Laffy Kat]

132. I honestly don't see the insult either.

There is absolutely nothing obnoxious about the sentiment. Be good without the fear of going to hell? That offends you?

[NightWatcher]

55. They're just mad because there's one less anti choice billboard in the Carolinas

So much of the interstates in the South are dotted with billboards for Asian massage parlors, adult toy stores, anti abortion groups, and miscellaneous out of context bible verses.

It's a positive message, just be good. How is that horrible?

[Mariana]

81. Apparently, it's "insulting" to tell people to skip church.

Amazing the knots people will twist themselves into so they can feel persecuted.

Pretty much every billboard is telling you to do or not do something. Shop at this store. Eat at this restaurant. Buy this product. Use this service. Don't drive drunk. Go to this church. Don't have an abortion. But this particular one is "insulting".

[The2ndWheel]

61. This is why a melting pot/multi-cultural society will always be contentious

Actually, any difference in any society will be contentious. Diversity is inefficient.

[oberliner]

63. What if the message was: "Go ahead and skip the mosque! Just be good for goodness sake"

Let's say the atheists put up a similar sign but in a predominately Muslim neighborhood with the same message, but suggesting skipping going to the mosque as opposed to going to church.

Perhaps the sign could go up during Ramadan.

And there was an image of, let's say, Mohammed, presenting that message.

How would that go over?

[KamaAina]

65. You know, you're right. Christians are at least as persecuted as Muslims.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027444068

[oberliner]

66. Internationally, much more so

In the United States, not so much.

Maybe an atheist group in, let's say, Egypt ought to give it a go.

[rockfordfile]

78. Well

Well religion is a scam. It's just that where we live the Christian religionscam is the dominate religionscam.

[oberliner]

80. True

But zinging some of the other religions in a similar way ought to be kosher too.

[Mariana]

84. Sure.

But Christians are the overwhelming majority in the US, and certainly in this part of NC. It's reasonable to choose to present the message to them.

[oberliner]

141. I certainly think it's reasonable to present that message there

But do you think it would be reasonable to present a similar message to Muslims in a part of the US that has a large Muslim population? Or do you think that because Muslims are a minority in the US that it would not be appropriate to do so for that reason?

[Mariana]

153. Sure it would be appropriate.

Maybe it's already been done. But most billboards aren't aimed at just the immediate neighborhood, they're on major roads so many people from all around can see them.

[oberliner]

157. Right

But it's a fairly narrow swath of people who would be driving on Business Route 40 in Kernersville, NC.

I think a similar billboard directed at going to the mosque rather than to church, placed in, let's say Dearborn, MI would result in a different kind of discussion (And perhaps justifiably so).

[Mariana]

158. I finally found the one I remember from a few years ago.

It wasn't in Dearborn, but it was certainly meant for Muslims as well as Christians.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-758697

So you see, it has been done.

[oberliner]

160. Thanks for sharing that

They had a similar one directed at Jewish people at the time also:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/01/atheist-group-targets-muslims-jews-with-myth-billboards-in-arabic-and-hebrew/

What's your take on the whole thing? Do you think all are equally valid? Or do you think such things ought to be directed at Christians only since they are the dominant power in the US?

[Mariana]

162. I think I already anwered that question in post #153.

Honestly, I'm not bothered about where they choose to place their ads, or which particular population they are trying to reach. I really don't get why you're going on and on about it.

[oberliner]

164. Forgot that was already covered in a previous post

Sorry about the redundancy!

[Act_of_Reparation]

85. Pretty terrible analogy.

Let's say the atheists put up a similar sign but in a predominately Muslim neighborhood with the same message, but suggesting skipping going to the mosque as opposed to going to church.

To date, no one has provided a satisfactory answer as to why this is offensive. So the billboard says don't go to church, or don't go to mosque. Has it occurred to you that, perhaps, there are people in church or people in mosque who would really prefer to be somewhere else?

Perhaps the sign could go up during Ramadan.

Is Ramadan a federal holiday? Is Ramadan season accompanied by a set of associated secular traditions? No? Well, okay, then.

And there was an image of, let's say, Mohammed, presenting that message.

Now this is an interesting proposition.

Are you suggesting Santa Claus is, in Christianity, a figure of importance akin to Mohammed in the Muslim tradition? Or are you suggesting Mohammed is, in Islam, a figure of importance akin to Santa Claus in the Christian tradition?

I don't think you're going to win many friends in either camp with that one, buddy.

[H2O Man]

87. Santa Claus is the one

American-born member of the Founding Fathers who is recognized by all of the world's religious faiths and political theologies. You need to read a comic book or two, before attempting to discredit him.

[Matariki]

103. It's disrespectul. Which apparently isn't a 'satisfactory answer' for you.

If you are an atheist and can't define your beliefs without it being about what other people believe, your thinking is shallow. If your atheism is about mocking other people's religions, then you are not only shallow, but also a jerk.

[muriel_volestrangler]

108. "be good for goodness' sake" is not about what other people believe

and neither is "skip church", for that matter. That's suggesting that people don't take part in a public ceremony, which some people feel pressured to do so, even though it doesn't mean anything to them (by family or neighbours).

Why is it that you are throwing around the words 'jerk', 'asshole' and 'shallow' about atheists, but you are the one complaining about atheists being disrespectful?

[Matariki]

109. A couple things Muriel

My criticism was directed at people who think that mocking other people's beliefs is acceptable, not at atheists. I would have thought that was clear, apparently not. Coercing and pushing one's beliefs on others is something fundamentalists do.

Second, the "skip church" part clearly makes it about what other people believe and value - specifically Christians. It makes it very clear that the billboard isn't about the very worthy atheist message (that morality and decent behavior is better when motivated for it's own sake than a fear of punishment) but instead makes it a dig at Christians. I only ask why that part is necessary. If you bother reading what I wrote, you'll notice that I didn't attack atheists for their beliefs. I simply asked why some atheists tend to define their beliefs only through mocking other people's religions.

[muriel_volestrangler]

114. It's not mocking

It's suggesting that there's no need to go to church. You can find some Christians who think that too.

[Matariki]

117. In truth

I was referring mostly to the "skip church, I'm too old for fairy tales" message in the image that Earthside posted. It's obvious that the message is a poke at christians, and it seems gratuitously petty. I find it amusing that suggesting respect for other people's beliefs is met with doubling down on the disrespect. Not you, just a lot of responses in this thread. So anyway, I'm done with this.

[Act_of_Reparation]

143. No, it's not.

I'll ask you the same question: has it occurred to you that some people sitting in church don't really want to be there?

[oberliner]

139. It wasn't just meant to be an analogy

I was seriously wondering if a billboard suggesting that people not go to the mosque on a Muslim holiday and instead just be good to one another would engender a similar response as this one encouraging people not to go to church on Christmas.

I don't think that it would - but I could be wrong.

[Humanist_Activist]

138. Considering it seems to be a message for those who don't want to go to Church/Mosque anyways...

not sure what's wrong with the message.

In fact, most of the Atheist billboards are callings to closet atheists and other non-believers to stop pretending to believe for society's sake.

[oberliner]

142. But don't you think there might be closet atheists among the US Muslim population?

It might be helpful to those individuals to get the message out in those communities as well, where, potentially, people also feel a lot of pressure to believe for the sake of their community.

[Mariana]

161. You really seem to be obsessing about this.

If you think there should be more atheist billboards in Muslim neighborhoods, by all means go raise the money, rent the space and have them put up.

[oberliner]

163. This is a discussion board

I thought that this was an interesting topic to discuss.

I don't want to put up any billboards and I am not in the least bit obsessed. I was just curious to hear different perspectives on this question that I find somewhat thought-provoking.

Thoughtful discussion is what I like most about DU.

[JI7]

159. I'm ok with both but i do agree many who are ok with this

Would be offended if it referred to Muslims instead.

[Solly Mack]

68. lolol

[Warpy]

106. The thin skinned are the men who ditch church in favor of Sunday golf

and are terrified the neighbors are going to think they're atheists.

[ieoeja]

112. I read a Facebook thread by religious family members which highlights why this is an "insult".

Part 1 of 2: an explanation for my fellow Atheists.

They were trying to decide: do we tell young children that Santa is not real, or that he was just a nice person?

Most common reply by Atheists to, "when did you stop believing in God," is, "same time as I stopped believing in Santa Claus." Christians have heard this so many times they now realize that Santa is a problem. So they feel the need to break the Santa Claus news early while the children are still young enough to trust their parents unquestionably.

One of those family members still ran into the problem as her son immediately started questioning his belief in Jesus when she told him Santa was not real. She was the one who started the thread looking for ways to explain the difference. Apparently, there are several books out there on how to do this as other relatives recommended a few.

This billboard ties the two together just when Christians combat that tie. So while there is absolutely nothing remotely insulting about this billboard, it pisses off Christians. And some seem to define "insult" as "that which pisses me off".

With great difficulty I refrained from commenting in the Facebook thread that maybe she should think about what her 5 year old was telling her instead of just dismissing his comments.

--------------------------------------

Part 2 of 2: a Christian message from an Atheist friend because you guys seem to have difficulty dealing with these issues.

How to explain this billboard to your children:

The philosophy taught in the New Testament does not merely call for people to "do" good. It calls for people to "be" good. Jesus wants you to be genuinely good. This billboard is emphasing that going to church is not enough. You need to be good at heart.

It is like the man who kills another man because he can legally kill him, but he does not have to. Is that man good? No. He chose to kill someone he did not have to. He may not be a criminal, but he is unquestionably a bad person.

That, or ask yourself, "which is worse, a 5 year old thinking about it or you not thinking about it?"

[LeftishBrit]

113. If they don't like the sign...

why don't they put up one of their own, exhorting people to attend church at Christmas, rather than demand that other people avoid putting up signs that disagree with them?

They have a right to their views, but not to suppress other people's free speech.

[Mariana]

115. LOL, there are so many billboards up already

that exhort people to attend church that yet another one wouldn't draw any attention!

[Democat]

136. Maybe they want others to believe what they believe?

And anyone who doesn't agree should shut up?

[jeff47]

151. Because it would be lost among the thousands of other billboards that say that.

The "insult" is that someone dared to put up a billboard that did not threaten me with eternal torture.

[Sivart]

146. The reason for the season.....

.....Axial tilt.


I'm just saying.

[KamaAina]

150. Ha! You probably believe in evolution, too!

Heathen!