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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhite guys are killing us: Toxic, cowardly masculinity, our unhealable national illness
Good article from Salon:
When the New York Times editorial board issued its powerful condemnation of Americas gun culture, they went beyond mere outrage in response to the recent murder sprees in San Bernardino, California, and Colorado Springs, Colorado. The Times went so far as to suggest that assault rifle-style weapons should be banned from civilian ownership. As is our national ritual, President Obama also condemned gun violence, and just as he has been forced to do too many times during his tenure, pleaded that Americans must find a way to stop killing each other. The American people do in fact support stronger gun control laws; the NRA, functioning as the lobbying arm for the gun industry, opposes even the most basic common sense gun laws. The NRA wins while the American people die.
This is political intractability in a democracy broken by the power of a very well-funded interest group to subvert the publics will. But, there is another little-discussed factor that helps to explain Americas obsessive and near pathological gun culture, unwillingness to treat gun violence as a public health crisis, Right-wing domestic terrorism, and propensity for mass shootings. It transcends all of those issues. But this factor is usually treated as verboten, something to not be unspoken of, because of the rage, threats of violence, and animus it inspires.
The common denominator is white masculinity and the particular ways that it is connected to American gun culture and the color line.
...
White men are approximately 30 percent of the population but account for 60 percent of the mass shootings. Domestic terrorism by white Right-wing Christians, again, mostly men, has been identified by the F.B.I. as the United States greatest internal threat.
Research by Kerry OBrien, Walter Forrest, Dermot Lynott, and Michael Daly as featured in the journal PLS One, has shown that white symbolic racism is directly related to gun ownership, hostility to gun control laws, and support for concealed carry.
Excerpted, read it all here:
http://www.salon.com/2015/12/16/white_guys_are_killing_us_toxic_cowardly_masculinity_our_unhealable_national_illness/
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)That's a very creative and colorful allegation. It's not really anything else though...
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)I agree.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)I won't even click on that filth. Roger Ailes is probably touching himself reading it.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)virgogal
(10,178 posts)There are good and bad members of all races.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)virgogal
(10,178 posts)showing Dirty Harry.
Guess the author never saw pictures of Shaft with a gun.
A ridiculous ,one sided article by an author who apparently has a very big axe to grind so decided to blame white men.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Because it doesn't say what you think it says.
B2G
(9,766 posts)If not, why not?
If so, are they included in that 60% statistic?
B2G
(9,766 posts)No, they are not.
See below.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)As in making the assertion that there's a "mass shooting every day." But I'll bet that when there's a racist point to make (as in the article), I suspect those incidents are suddenly "not applicable."
B2G
(9,766 posts)TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)A mass shooting does not have to be terror related - the local gangbanger who shoots four people is also a mass shooter.
And, yeah, the white guy who kills his wife, his kids, and then himself is a mass shooter, as well.
840high
(17,196 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)Scream about 'one mass shooting' a day, tout those numbers as a part of your gun control argument, then ignore the vast majority of them in your race/religion based rants on mass shootings, so you prove some 'point' about how evil once race or religion is.
All the while screaming 'Black Lives Matter!!' while ignoring these deaths.
From the link in the OP, where these statistics came from.
"Crimes primarily related to gang activity, armed robbery, or domestic violence in homes are not included."
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)side-by-side in Gainesville, Florida in 1891:
"Yay, even when a black man and a white man are lynched together, the white man is hung higher than the black man."
Marx was wrong about the "equality of the graveyard."
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Everyone knows if you die hanging higher up than someone else you get to be reincarnated
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)the white outlaw, the remaining rope was too short; hence, the lower limb for the black outlaw. The lynching was supposedly the only integrated lynching in the U.S. in terms of the hanged and in terms of the participants (2-300). The integrated gang lost its allure with most everyone by that time.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Just WHY we shouldn't include gang violence, domestic, or drug related violence. To me, motivation of the mass shooter is of much less importance than actually getting shot, and even the specific cases the author mentioned, some of the victims were innocent bystanders.
Obviously, my satisfaction is not the arbiter of what gets published at MJ, but it sure would be nice if the CDC, NIH, and other government agencies could study the issue properly and thoroughly, wouldn't it?
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Ill-advised point to make, as it invites the inevitable response that black men account for c. 50% of all homicides (as perpetrators and victims alike) while comprising less than 10% of the population. Not just statistically minuscule mass killings...all homicides. Does the author (and others who make that point) really want to make it about race?
Horrible, horrible line of argument/reasoning...
B2G
(9,766 posts)mass shootings. Get with it.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)You have done enough historical research and into institutional racism and found why such things exist?
Or are you just using it?
B2G
(9,766 posts)As opposed to knee jerk reactions?
You are hardly one to lecture me about 'using' events to attain goals.
randys1
(16,286 posts)about them.
B2G
(9,766 posts)And then state that I don't give a shit.
Perfect.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)"Specials" and "In Depth" stories on kids killed in turf wars. For some reason it doesn't fit their agenda.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Oh, wait.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Most murders are committed by somebody known to the victim. Some mass muders are, but I would imagine those are the family killers. But mass violence like the Colorado theater shooting or other similar shootings have a different approach to solving.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Mass shootings (by the more-specific definition of the term) require a different approach for the precise reason you state: vastly different motivating factors. This is exactly why I dislike the expanding of the definition of "mass shootings." Not because it inflates the problem (although I don't care for that, either), but because it confuses the analysis of how to solve the problem.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The whole idea is dumb as day old dogshit.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)... but white guys are.
Collective guilt? It's okay if you hate the target enough.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)close...
I believe the received view is that people who call themselves muslims, and do mass killings, are not actually muslims.
And white men who do mass killings, but call themselves atheists, are actually christians.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)not sure what you're talking about.
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Angel Martin
(942 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)I mean one person, Fred Sanders, made an absurd comment which was quickly proven false. Don't know how that is relevant to what a completely different person is saying. Maybe there is a prevailing view that this anti-theist is Christian for some reason, but I don't see how a single post from Fred Sanders is any indication of that.
Response to mwrguy (Original post)
Post removed
Paladin
(28,266 posts)Judging from the responses......
Bonx
(2,055 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)seem to 99% of the time end up as the proverbial elephants in the room to which nobody wants to ascribe guilt ...
How can that code of silence be accounted for?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)But on the other hand...
However, I would hasten to reiterate...
closeupready
(29,503 posts)At least on DU. Or it's always, ALWAYS the father, and NEVER the mother.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)As was the Charleston church murderer's folks.
The point made by Waldorf above (since censored) is salient. Many here on DU feel free to dump their personal garbage when some white guy (usually) pulls some atrocity, and to little constructive purpose, except to join in with the cadence of Salon-type articles. There is a W-I-D-E comfort zone which wouldn't (and shouldn't) be tolerated if the parents were minority. Outside of DU, RW and MS media feel quite free to go after Muslims, and occasionally Mexicans, because tRumpism is sanctified. Here on DU, however, it's "Fire at Billy-Wayne Will!" In my opinion.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)discussing current events relating to gender issues. People bring their personal garbage in to almost every discussion, seeing the world through distorted lenses. Peace.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)somehow we have to get rid of the idea that a real man is always up for a fight, always ready to defend himself, and is a coward if he backs away from an offered conflict. Men are more afraid of being called cowards than they are of death.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I don't think this is a white male thing with guns so much as it's simply a male thing.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Men of all races kill each other (and women) on a pretty regular basis.
Children are also at risk from men of all races.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Any organism that makes it to maturity and manages to pass on its genes to the next generation is a winner in Darwinian terms.
Matrosov
(1,098 posts)..increased gun control legislation would've been passed a long time ago.
Number23
(24,544 posts)calories trying extremely hard not to understand.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)Not using the not all white people disclaimer when discussing white folks.
Number23
(24,544 posts)detrimental as it is.
The need to placate white people's feelings, even regarding an article about how white, male "masculinity" has been one of the most destructive forces this country has ever had, is simply astonishing.
Amishman
(5,557 posts)'not all hispanics'
'not all blacks'
'not all muslims'
'not all immigrants'
we make a point to use those disclaimers, especially when making a rebuttal to a blanket negative statement about a group. Why is it preferable to use that type of disclaimer in the context of one group but unacceptable to use it when discussing another?
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)Reading through this thread from the top down, until I got to your post, then it was like a breath of fresh air.
to you, and
Number23
(24,544 posts)Happy Holidays to you, OneGrassRoot.
romanic
(2,841 posts)sound just as hysterical as the writers at Breitbart. Two sides of the same rusty penny.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)but gun humping includes gangs, terrorists, etc....hardly exclusively white
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)If the OP stated 'Black guys are killing us' based on crime rates, it would be hidden.
Understandably so.
But it is OK to post 'White guys are killing us' based on terror attacks?
Looks like there's a double standard at work here..
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)pediatricmedic
(397 posts)It also seems to ignore actual facts and statistics:
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
and
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_3_murder_offenders_by_age_sex_and_race_2013.xls
Or the actual extremists:
http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)No time for the article the headline is classic. Such lulz.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,869 posts)Really, it's pretty unusual for women to be shooters. We normally just nag people to death.
But, seriously, most of the shooting deaths and injuries here in KCMO are gang related. Not counting suicides. And it's all races. and those gang members shoot each other over the strangest stuff. And they are very macho.
We have had over 100 homicides this year and I would bet you about 90 percent are gang related. They find bodies almost every day here. Laying in alleys or streets or backyards. It's really terrible and then it is like nobody cares because they are just gang members. One family lost 2 sons in a week.
And the really sad thing are the deaths of the little kids and babies that just happen to get in the way.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)There is no such thing as racism against the group that has all the power.
hack89
(39,171 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)... but call them a racist and all bets are off.
Smaller parts of the whole etc... etc...
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Institutional racism is indeed a thing but not the whole thing...as I suspect you know but don't want to admit because it makes you uncomfortable...
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Seems a bit subliterate to me. YMMV.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...that some folk are desperate to force into the colloquial lexicon. Plus, it allows them to deflect the conversation into a tiresome semantic rathole.
Fuck that.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Collegiate volumes of the most popular American English dictionaries contain no such mention and most certainly contain the most widely used consensus definitions of that term.
Prejudice based on race is racism. That definition doesn't change because someone invents their own meaning.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Then we could have peace on earth.
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)even post such a racist and sexist article on DU. Too bad you can no longer give - reps on DU posts.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Unrec