Maybe President Assad didn't "Gas his own people" after all?

[another_liberal]

Despite the West's decision to blame Syria's government for the notorious sarin gas attack on a suburb of Damascus in 2013, it may have been entirely different regional actors who were behind that crime against humanity. There is disturbing information coming out of Turkey which suggests that Turkish sources supplied precursor chemicals to buyers from ISIS (later known as Islamic State or Daesh). According to Eren Erdem, a member of the Turkish Parliament, the hope was a chemical weapon attack on civilians would cause so much public uproar that the West would act to overthrow Syria's government. This outspoken Turkish politician has since been arrested for his accusations and charged with treason for publicly calling for an investigation.

A U.N. chemical weapons expert holds a plastic bag containing samples from the site of an alleged chemical weapons attack in Damascus, August 29, 2013 (Reuters)


Turkish ‘traitor’ MP’s revelations on sarin transfers must be probed, reported to UNSC


Russia has expressed hope that a joint OPCW-UN investigation of deadly sarin attacks in Syria will not ignore reports from a Turkish MP, who faces charges of treason for exposing Ankara’s alleged role in hiding ISIS-bound shipments of gas precursors. The so-called Joint Investigative Mechanism (JIM) consolidated the efforts of the UN and the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) with a mandate to identify people involved in the use of chemicals weapons in Syria under the Security Council resolution 2118.

“This specialized mechanism should thoroughly investigate the information provided by the Turkish parliamentarian in accordance with its mandate, and report back to the UN Security Council,” Ministry’s spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in a statement.

The parliamentarian in question – Eren Erdem of the opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) – was accused of “betrayal” by Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, after telling the media that the Islamic State terrorists in Syria received all necessary materials to produce deadly sarin gas via Turkey.

Erdem revived concerns regarding a possible cover-up following the sudden termination of a local criminal case in Adana into the illegal shipments. Furthermore, Erdem argued that the West purposefully blamed the government of Bashar Assad for the August 2013 chemical attack in Ghouta that was used as part of the pretext to make US military intervention in Syria possible.

(snip)

Read more at: https://www.rt.com/news/327122-syria-sarin-isis-investigation/

[GGJohn]

1. WWW.RT.Com?

That's all I need to know to know that this story is bullshit.

[another_liberal]

3. Then why not leave the commenting to those who are less close-minded . . .

Many of us genuinely want to know the truth about what happened. Shouldn't we all want the people actually responsible to be the ones punished?

[GGJohn]

6. Excuse me,

but this is an open board, and the truth is already known, it is beyond doubt, except for the Kremlin's paid mouthpieces, that Assad is responsible for the gassing of his own people.

I notice on several occasions that the only sources you use are pro Kremlin sources, RT, Sputniknews, etc.
Very interesting..........

[another_liberal]

10. Like I said . . .

If your mind is closed on the subject, you will entertain no new evidence and are completely sure of what happened, why bother?

[GGJohn]

12. What new evidence?

So someone said and, without any hard evidence, we're supposed to believe that Assad didn't murder his own people?
Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

The international community, with the exception of the Kremlin's paid mouthpieces, are well aware of who launched that Sarin gas attack, Russia and their paid mouthpieces are desperate to shift the blame elsewhere so their boy Assad doesn't look like the murderer and war criminal that he is.

[jwirr]

65. We went to war on a pack of lies once. No matter the source

this needs to be followed up. Especially in the USA because we have a very true reputation of overthrowing other governments for our own reasons.

RT is probably a bad source but so was Colin Powell.

[GGJohn]

68. What needs to be followed up?

That one person "claimed", without any evidence, that Turkey was responsible, directly or indirectly, for the Sarin attack?

[jwirr]

75. Yes, there were a lot of "claims" before we overthrew the

government of Iraq also. Follow up and verify. Why would looking into this be so wrong?

[GGJohn]

77. How do you know this hasn't already been looked into and found to be not credible?

Considering this is coming from RT, a Kremlin controlled mouthpiece, I give it all the due attention it's due, IOW, none.

[jwirr]

79. Well I did not claim that it had not been looked into but I still

do not see your problem with looking into it. For heaven's sake they listen to us on our telephones - why not look into something that we hear from any other source?

[GGJohn]

80. 1 Turkish opposition official, who probably has an axe to grind against Ergodan,

claims this, without the least bit of credible evidence to back up his claim?

[Duckhunter935]

15. talk about closed minded

Only Kremlin funded sources.

[Cayenne]

106. But American media has become utter crap

Owned by only six corporations.

Sorry to say but the Russian media, even though it is Kremlin directed, is more truthful than ours. Ours would rather distract us with Biebers picadillios than report on what is really going on in the middle east. If they bother to write anything it is State Department propaganda.

Example:
American media would have us believe Assad, and not Erdogan's son, is the chief buyer of IS oil. Never mind that Assad is incapable of moving that oil to market and Turkey is.

[leveymg]

64. No disclosed evidence that Assad gave command orders. Quite the opposite: intercepts of phone

calls that night recorded officials at the Syrian Defence Ministry freaking out when it learned that a chemical weapons attack had been launched. This was overheard by western intelligence analysts. After the fact, the most senior part of the Syrian military demanded who had ordered the attack. Here's the source, and it wasn't RT:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/27/exclusive-intercepted-calls-prove-syrian-army-used-nerve-gas-u-s-spies-say/

But the intercept raises questions about culpability for the chemical massacre, even as it answers others: Was the attack on Aug. 21 the work of a Syrian officer overstepping his bounds? Or was the strike explicitly directed by senior members of the Assad regime? "It’s unclear where control lies," one U.S. intelligence official told The Cable. "Is there just some sort of general blessing to use these things? Or are there explicit orders for each attack?"

Nor are U.S. analysts sure of the Syrian military’s rationale for launching the strike — if it had a rationale at all. Perhaps it was a lone general putting a long-standing battle plan in motion; perhaps it was a miscalculation by the Assad government. Whatever the reason, the attack has triggered worldwide outrage, and put the Obama administration on the brink of launching a strike of its own in Syria. "We don’t know exactly why it happened," the intelligence official added. "We just know it was pretty fucking stupid."

The FP report that appears at the site has been since edited. The original wording added this important piece of information as reported elsewhere, such as this AFP wire report:

'Panicked phone calls' between Syrian defence official and chemical weapons head after attack

Agence France-Presse

August 29, 2013
http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/panicked-phone-calls-between-syrian-defence-official-and-chemical-weapons-head-after-attack

WASHINGTON // US intelligence services overheard a Syrian defence ministry official in "panicked phone calls with the leader of a chemical weapons unit" after last week's deadly chemical attack, Foreign Policy magazine has reported.

"Last Wednesday, in the hours after a horrific chemical attack east of Damascus, an official at Syria's ministry of defence exchanged panicked phone calls with leader of a chemical weapons unit, demanding answers for a nerve agent strike that killed more than 1,000 people," the report on Tuesday said.

"Those conversations were overheard by US intelligence services," the magazine said in a statement. "That is the major reason why American officials now say they're certain that the attacks were the work of the Bashar Al Assad regime – and why the US military is likely to attack that regime in a matter of days."

Also, there were contemporaneous reports of rebel groups obtaining chemical precursors in Turkey. Again, not RT:

There also was never a followup report from rebels caught in Turkey with chems...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22720647

"Mr Cos did however say that unknown chemicals had been found and were being investigated."

AND

Turkey arrests Syrian Nusra Front militants -media
May 30, 2013|Reuters

ANKARA, May 30 (Reuters) - Turkish authorities have arrested
a group of Syria's al Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front militants who
allegedly had been planning an attack inside Turkey and were in
possession of the nerve agent sarin, local media reported on
Thursday.

...

The 12 Nusra members were arrested in the southern city of
Adana, some 100 km (60 miles) from Syria, during raids at their
addresses where police uncovered 2 kg (4.5 pounds) of sarin as
well as heavy weapons, Taraf, Cumhuriyet and Aksam, as well as
several other dailies reported.

The men, who were allegedly planning a large attack in the
city, were formally detained by Adana's top court, the papers
reported, although it was not clear on what charges. The papers
did not reveal their sources.

...

Nusra is one of the most effective forces fighting President
Bashar al-Assad and last month pledged allegiance to al Qaeda
leader Ayman al-Zawahri. The U.S. State Department designated
Nusra as a terrorist organisation in December.

Experts have long said Nusra is receiving support from al
Qaeda-linked militants in neighbouring Iraq. The group claimed
responsibility for deadly bombings in Damascus and Aleppo, and
its fighters have joined other Syrian rebel brigades.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05-30/news/sns-rt-syria-crisisturkeyl3n0eb2uy-20130530_1_nusra-front-chemical-weapons-jonathon-burch

[GGJohn]

66. Now that's a better source,

but it still doesn't link Turkey to the attack, as the OP is accusing Turkey of.
It may very well have been a rogue Syrian Army officer giving the order, or it may have been Assad personally giving the commander the order, I don't know, what I do know is that the OP only uses Kremlin controlled news sources for his threads, and makes wild claims, like international observers said that Syria's Assad was re-elected in a fair and free election, yet the sources he provided said the opposite.

[leveymg]

72. The point is, the evidence isn't at all clear who ordered the sarin attacks

Here's another source that reported the original FP report that was later edited out:

U.S. spies certain Assad used nerve gas 'after intercepting phone call from panicking Syrian def...
Daily Mail ^ | August 28, 2013 | Amanda Williams and Jill Reilly

The U.S is confident that Syria was behind the deadly chemical weapons attack after intercepting a phone call from a Syrian defence chief demanding an explanation from its chemical weapon military unit for the action, according to new claims.

Just hours after the attack last Wednesday an official at the Syrian Ministry of Defense exchanged panicked phone calls with a leader of the unit, demanding answers, according to website Foreign Policy.

(. . .)

'It's unclear where control lies,' one U.S. intelligence official told The Cable. 'Is there just some sort of general blessing to use these things? Or are there explicit orders for each attack?'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2403778/Syria-crisis-U-S-spies-certain-Assad-used-nerve-gas-intercepting-defence-chief.html#ixzz3vRf9Ogzc

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2403778/Syria-crisis-U-S-spies-certain-Assad-used-nerve-gas-intercepting-defence-chief.html

[GGJohn]

73. Thank you for some credible sources, unlike what the OP provides. eom.

[leveymg]

74. You're welcome. One can conclude the point of posting from discredited sources is to "poison the

well", a term that refers to efforts to avert attention away from the information by pinning it to a suspect source. But, that's just how propaganda works, not an assertion that this is necessarily the case here.

Read everything, trust no one source, and try to verify.

[Bad Dog]

2. Does it really make that much of a difference.

Assad is a war criminal and torturer. The majority Sunni population, (and their supporters in the Gulf and Turkey,) will not accept a future with Assad, regardless of what deal the West/Russians cook up.

"Farah" was born in Britain but grew up in Syria. Last year, she was arrested by the Syrian government security forces, who accused her of being an opposition activist. She blames Syrian President Bashar al-Assad for the torture that followed, and sees him as a bigger menace than Islamic State.

I've only included the first paragraph because the whole report contains descriptions of torture that could upset, but if you follow the link you'll see Assad is a monster, and any discussions over whether he's more or less of a monster than IS are academic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35005825

[another_liberal]

5. Actually . . .

Only last year, President Assad won an election which was considered by international observers to be free and fair.

Anyway, who are we to start removing elected leaders for being associated with torture? Do we really have the moral high ground to start that kind of a crusade?

[GGJohn]

8. .....

Actually . . . Only last year, President Assad won an election which was considered by international observers to be free and fair.

Really? Got a link for that? I mean other than your usual go to links, IE: RT, Sputniknews, etc.

[another_liberal]

31. Here are a few . . .

But you can easily find many more:


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/04/bashar-al-assad-winds-reelection-in-landslide-victory


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/syrian-election-sends-powerful-signal-of-assads-control/2014/06/03/16876fca-eb2a-11e3-b98c-72cef4a00499_story.html


http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/04/the-syrian-elections/

[GGJohn]

38. LOL.

Are you fucking kidding me? You call that fair and free elections? Where in any of those articles does it say that that election was free and fair?

Did you think I wouldn't read those articles?
Those articles said the opposite of what you're claiming.

[Duckhunter935]

39. well I looked at the Washington post

It says the opposite of your remarks. Says were not free and fair. Opposition was not allowed to participate and foreign journalists were excluded from the country. You think we would not look,

[GGJohn]

49. Guardian says just about the same thing,

didn't even look at the Counterpunch story, they're notorious for being pro Kremlin.

[Duckhunter935]

50. yes, had to laugh at that one

What does he actually think we are stupid?

[GGJohn]

52. He probably figured we wouldn't even read the articles,

I still don't see where the international community says they were free and fair elections?

[Duckhunter935]

53. I am sure he will provide a link

[Sunlei]

4. Assad has killed thousands of Syrian people & now with buddie Putin thousands more die.

To bad Geneva, Swiss. harbors wealthywar criminals or Assad would be dead by now.

[another_liberal]

7. How many hundreds of thousands of people have we killed?

Our government repeatedly tops the list of most feared and dangerous in the World, according to international polling.

[GGJohn]

9. Hmmm, very interesting that you refuse to answer the question,

instead, you attempt to divert.

[another_liberal]

11. Pardon me?

Our international guilt is of such horrendous proportions that we have no standing to call for the overthrow of any foreign government for its own crimes. That hardly what I would call a "diversion."

[GGJohn]

14. Still diverting?

Why do you continue to refuse to answer Sunlei's question?

[Scootaloo]

103. Sunlei didn't ask a question.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. And Russia is innocent as the morning snows? Get real. I remember talking to you about

Crimea, and your refusal to even acknowledge the historic fact that Crimea was purged of the indigenous Muslim Tartar population in a mass forced relocation under Stalin which then created the 'Russian majority' you and others touted as reason Crimea had 'always been Russian'. Always meaning 'since the last boxcar full of Muslims was exported in the 1940's'.
Here is your thread touting the 'Ethnic make up of Crimea' which leaves out the entire pogrom.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024574456

[Duckhunter935]

37. some don't let facts matter sadly

[Sunlei]

29. probably millions by now if you count Indians and slaves. doesn't make assad less of a mass killer.

Putin too, another modern-day mass killer.

[treestar]

87. Not in our own country

We are guilty of killing in Iraq but the equivalent here would be our government actually killing us - here.

[ronnie624]

100. Killing more people

in other countries, somehow, through some circuitous train of logic, makes us morally superior?

Absolutely fascinating.

[treestar]

101. I was merely pointing out the difference the previous poster overlooked

so your accusation is false.

We are not facing what Syrians face every day.

[ronnie624]

113. It's quite obvious what you meant.

You think it would be worse for our government to kill people here, than to kill them in much larger numbers in another country, a prevailing attitude among Americans.

I can understand why people might try for vagueness when posting in this vein. It might provide for some wiggle room for an argument that is, otherwise, completely lacking in logic.

[Agnosticsherbet]

13. Russian Times is a government propaganda outfit with less credibilty than a CIA new release. nt

[Sunlei]

36. Russias Gov. recently took over ALL news services and started stricter control of their internet.

[Kaleva]

16. This belongs in Creative Speculation

[another_liberal]

19. I disagree completely!

A member of the Turkish opposition in Parliament calls for the reopening of a quashed investigation into his own government's wrong-doing, and he is arrested and charged with treason on orders from the Turkish President. That is a major news story, not merely "creative speculation."

[GGJohn]

24. What "quashed investigation into his own government's wrong-doing"?

Have a link for that also?
BTW, have a link for the so call fair and free election of Assad last year?

This is nothing more than bullshit CT and it does belont in Creative Speculation.

[NuclearDem]

17. OFFS

[oberliner]

18. Russian state-run media Assad apologists

They are certainly working overtime on the pro-Assad propaganda over there.

Odd that there are actually people at DU who take Russian propaganda seriously.

[another_liberal]

21. Your opinion . . .

Others see the situation very differently.

BTW: How do you feel about our NSA, CIA and State Department telling American news sources how they want stories covered, as has been reported on numerous occasions? Or doesn't that matter?

[GGJohn]

23. That's not an opinion, that's a fact,

just like there are paid Kremlin trolls to go on websites and push the Kremlin's propaganda line.

[Octafish]

25. Right wing trolls, too, who work to shut down discussion.

Especially if discussion criticizes US warmongers in service of Wall Street, Big Oil and Israel.

[GGJohn]

27. I rest my case.

[Octafish]

40. Emoticons for Lockheed Martin!

From Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity:

We believe that this odd lack of a formal “Intelligence Assessment” is explained by the fact that our former colleagues did not believe the evidence justified your charges and that, accordingly, they resisted pressure to “fix the intelligence around the policy,” as was done to “justify” the attack on Iraq.

Intelligence analysts were telling us privately (and we told the President in our Memorandum of Sept. 6, 2013) that, contrary to what you claimed, “the most reliable intelligence shows that Bashar al-Assad was not responsible for the chemical incident that killed and injured Syrian civilians on August 21.”

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/22/a-call-for-proof-on-syria-sarin-attack/

More war is what's needed. Good for jobs, and the economy, yes! Good paying jobs.

[GGJohn]

44. Consortium News?

Robert Parry?

You couldn't have picked a more CT source than them.
Congrats.

[proverbialwisdom]

70. Investigative reporter Robert Parry is winner of 2015 IF Stone Medal for Journalistic Independence.

http://nieman.harvard.edu/awards/i-f-stone-medal-for-journalistic-independence/


Speakers at the 2015 I.F. Stone Medal presentation from left: Tom Ashbrook, Ann Marie Lipinski, Celia Gilbert, Robert Parry and Bill Kovach.

I.F. Stone Medal for Journalistic Independence
2015 Winner

Investigative reporter Robert Parry is winner of the 2015 IF Stone Medal for Journalistic Independence. In recognizing his contributions to journalism, former Nieman Foundation curator Bill Kovach, chair of the advisory committee that oversees the annual award, said, “Robert Parry has for decades been one of the most tenacious investigative journalists.

Driven by his concern that the information flooding our communications system increasingly substitutes opinion for historical fact and undermines effective citizen and government decisions, he has created a unique news website to replace disinformation with facts based on deep research.” Parry broke many of the stories related to the Iran-Contra affair in the 1980s and established the website, consortiumnews.com in 1995 as the first online investigative news magazine.

Learn more and watch videos of the award ceremony

About the Award

Established in 2008, the I.F. Stone Medal recognizes journalistic independence and honors the life of investigative journalist I.F. Stone.

The award is presented annually to a journalist whose work captures the spirit of independence, integrity, courage and indefatigability that characterized I.F. Stone’s Weekly, published from 1953 to 1971.

An advisory committee of journalists oversees nominations and the selection of an annual medal winner. The committee is chaired by Bill Kovach, former curator of the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard and founding chairman of the Committee of Concerned Journalists.

About I.F. Stone

Journalist I.F. Stone’s passion for speaking his mind incurred the wrath of the powerful. His opposition to Sen. Joseph McCarthy and his determination to expose the excesses of J. Edgar Hoover’s FBI led to attacks on his credibility and reputation during the McCarthy Era in the early 1950s.

The I.F. Stone Medal bears a likeness of an issue of I.F. Stone’s Weekly with a headline on the Tonkin Gulf affair, 'All We Really Know Is That We Fired The First Shots.' (PDF)

Stone was one of only a few journalists who reported on the U.S. government’s false allegations that the North Vietnamese had attacked a U.S. destroyer in 1964, the claim President Johnson used to persuade the Senate to approve the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, which ultimately paved the way for the country to enter the Vietnam War.

Winners - Please see link for Press Release and Videos from 2008 to present.

More: http://nieman.harvard.edu/events/robert-parry-receives-i-f-stone-medal-for-journalistic-independence/

[GGJohn]

71. Robert Parry is a colossal CT nut. eom.

[proverbialwisdom]

76. Again, award link-> http://nieman.harvard.edu/awards/i-f-stone-medal-for-journalistic-independence/

http://nieman.harvard.edu/awards/i-f-stone-medal-for-journalistic-independence/
http://www.ifstone.org/medal.php

[GGJohn]

78. So what?

That doesn't change the fact that he's come off the rails in the last few years, but if you want to hang your hat on what he says, you're more that free to do so.

[proverbialwisdom]

81. I don't follow his work at all, but it's clear your efforts to apply the CT tag are misguided.

Don't make it personal.

[GGJohn]

82. If you don't follow his work at all, then how do you know my saying he's a CT nut

are misguided?

[proverbialwisdom]

89. I try to be familiar with http://nieman.harvard.edu/ and recently saw this. Check it out.

http://nieman.harvard.edu/events/robert-parry-receives-i-f-stone-medal-for-journalistic-independence/

October 26, 2015

...The annual award, established in 2008 to honor Stone’s life and to recognize journalists capturing the spirit of his independence, integrity, and courage,

was presented to Parry for his career

distinguished by meticulously researched investigations,
intrepid questioning,
and reporting that has challenged mainstream media.

Parry, who is perhaps best known for his breaking news reporting during the Iran-Contra Affair in the 1980s, while working for The Associated Press and Newsweek, is the founder and editor of Consortiumnews.com, an online investigative news magazine he launched in 1995.

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2015/10/26/robert-parry-iran-contra-investigative-journalism

[GGJohn]

90. Yes, he was, at one time, a fine reporter, but in the last few years,

he's come off the rails with his CT rants.

[mythology]

107. And Henry Kissenger won the Nobel Peace Prize

Winning an award is nice, but that doesn't actually mean everybody else needs to be obsequious to the award.

Once you start trying to tell the world that poor Vladimir Putin is an angel who isn't responsible for the war in Ukraine, you kind of lose the right to be taken seriously, especially when Parry brings so little actual evidence to the table.

One problem with having your success based on finding a conspiracy seems to be that you keep looking for other conspiracies when in general the simplest answer is most likely to be correct.

[Octafish]

83. That's exactly what Oliver North and Dick Cheney said about Robert Parry.

Gee. They're stand-up guys, for those who like fascism.

I'd get you a link, but, you know.

[GGJohn]

84. You know what they say about a broken clock and all,

I'd get you a link, but, you know.

[Octafish]

98. For most of my life, this subject was career suicide to academics and journalists.

Rather than let everything JFK, MLK, RFK and the Wellstone Wing of the Democratic Party destroyed, I am proud to write that more than a brave handful have stepped forward. People who don't see that smear me as a "Conspiracy Theorist" and what not. So, I'm in good company.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Kremlin trolls are right wing, this is 2015. Russia is an oligrachy and not a communist

state.

[Octafish]

43. Unlike our Kleptocracy.

Khodorkovsky, Bush, and Carlyle Group are made for each other.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/05/world/how-russian-oil-tycoon-courted-friends-in-us.html

[treestar]

88. But that's all they have is "the US did it too MOM!"

That's how they defend the Russian atrocities.

[Octafish]

99. You'd really say that I was defending Russian atrocities?

Show where.

[treestar]

102. Not you in particular

but at least one on this thread resorts to nothing else and certainly seems to at least claim we can't criticize Russian atrocities and it follows that we have to accept them.

Perhaps we can find someone 'pure' (the government of Denmark or Canada?) to criticize Russian atrocities. And the organ of the Russian government, RT, will certainly not do it.

[Octafish]

104. The democratic perspective is to listen to all sources of information.

That includes those with whom we do not agree. That way, we might learn something new, such as the OP quoting what RT has to say. You only have to think of FOX News or Judith Miller and the New York Times to know why. And hence the moral: "Only the educated are free."

[treestar]

105. Well we know whose point of view we are getting in RT

and can certainly listen to it, but it never seems to criticize any Russian policy.

Even Fox criticizes the US - notice that since we had a black president they are very willing to criticize him.

[Octafish]

110. Yeah, but RT never said Saddam Hussein was a threat to the USA.

Which is what CIABCNNBCBSFauxNooseNutworks all swore. And after 9-11, 92-percent of Americans agreed with the liars. And 92-percent were all wrong.

[EX500rider]

108. "The democratic perspective is to listen to all sources of information"

No, it is not....I don't care what David Duke thinks, or the Aryan Nation, the Ayatollahs of Iran or the Kremlin, etc...

[Octafish]

109. Did I say you had to agree?

I don't agree with David Duke and the Aryan Nations, either; nor do I agree much with a lot of people, including some of the defenders of life, liberty and the American way to bear guns on animals and such on DU have to say. What I do know is that I have a right to hear what they have to say, even if I don't agree with it, and they have a right to air their view, even if I don't agree with it.

What do you think this is, Russia?

[EX500rider]

111. You certainly have the right to pass on authoritarian govt propaganda..

....just don't be surprised if many call it the BS it is.

[DetlefK]

20. The torture-dungeons of the Assad-regime:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027451751

[another_liberal]

22. Sounds like the American Pot calling the Syrian kettle black . . .

Ever heard of Abu Ghraib prison, secret CIA detention sites, Gitmo?

[GGJohn]

26. And there you go attempting to divert again. eom.

[pampango]

30. Are DU'ers not allowed to call kettles black regardless of whose kettle it is?

Or does guilt-by-association prevent us from commenting on repression and torture anywhere in the world?

[DetlefK]

32. Are you implying that two torture-dungeons make a right?

I don't think that "everybody does it" is an excuse for torture-dungeons.


And just to go on a quantitative level:
How many US-citizens is the US-government kidnapping on a daily basis, never to be seen again?
How many US-villages, -towns and -cities is the US-airforce bombing on a daily basis, because some islamic extremists might hide among the populace?

[malaise]

28. Very interesting

Thanks for this

[another_liberal]

34. You are welcome . . .

It never made any sense that Assad's forces would do something like this, an act sure to bring international condemnation down on their heads. Now that we know more about Turkey's connections with Daesh and her regional ambitions, the pieces are starting to fall into place as to who is really responsible.

BTW: Did you notice how quickly the pro-intervention crowd got its back up over this one? Must have touched a nerve maybe?

[malaise]

41. Nothing surprises me anymore

There are more partisans and over-zealous nationalists than democrats on this planet.

[GGJohn]

42. Pro intervention?

Just more nonsense from you.
Nobody, not one person here, has expressed a pro intervention opinion in this thread, what we're doing is calling bullshit on your CT that Turkey is responsible for the gas attack instead of Assad.

And your post about the international observers calling the election of Assad free and fair?
That's fucking laughable.
Even your sources contradict what you're claiming.

[CJCRANE]

45. DU more and more resembles Freeperville in the attempts of some to censor information

from foreign news media.

It's just like the attitude RWers had towards Al Jazeera in the Bush era.

[GGJohn]

46. Who's censoring foreign news sources?

You do know that the OP almost exclusively uses Kremlin controlled news org. for his threads don't you?
RT, Sputniknews, etc are wholly controlled by the Kremlin.
Nobody's censoring, we're ridiculing the sources.

[CJCRANE]

47. Just like Freepers did with Al Jazeera.

The real test is: is the information true or false?

Can you refute the information presented in the OP?

[GGJohn]

48. Coming from Kremlin controlled sources and Assad being their boy?

What do you think?

[Bonx]

85. Challenging poor sources is important

RT on Syria is not a good source.

[tabasco]

51. Maybe I'll start farting Chanel perfume and RT can come and do a story on it. n/t

[edhopper]

54. Russia kills top Syrian Rebel leader

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/syrian-rebel-air-strike-alloush_567dc4a2e4b06fa688802fdf

Several rebel leaders have been killed since Russia began an aerial campaign on Sept. 30 in support of its ally Assad, although Moscow has insisted that it is concentrating its attacks on Islamic State.

The rebel sources said that in the raid Russian planes fired at least 10 missiles at a secret headquarters of the group, which is the largest rebel faction in the area and has about 15,000 to 20,000 fighters, according to Western intelligence.

[another_liberal]

57. They do attack organizations and individuals in rebellion against the Syrian authorities . . .

As well as the foreign Jihadi fighters (and organizations such as Daesh) who have joined with rebels in attacks on the sovereign government. What else could a long-time ally like Russia, who has been asked for help under terms of a military alliance, honorably do?

[edhopper]

67. So you not only back Putin

over Obama, you back Assad as well.

[another_liberal]

96. Don't put words in my mouth . . .

I have never voiced support for either of those individuals. Just because I don't want our country to go to war with someone does not mean I support that person.

[edhopper]

97. Sure you don't

[IMG][/IMG]

[another_liberal]

112. Sure I don't what?

To be a bit more clear on the point: I do support some things Russia's leader does, but I also support some things our government does. I do not, however, automatically or constantly support either, and I trust neither government to tell me the truth reliably. OK?

[GGJohn]

69. Very few times has the Russian Air Force attacked ISIL. eom.

[stonecutter357]

55. Documents show how Russia's troll army hit America

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026279986

[another_liberal]

59. Have you ever considered . . .

Maybe what you like to think is a "Troll army" is really just the growing number of Americans who no longer buy into our M.I.C. and Pentagon pro-war propaganda? Free speech is still supposed to be our right, isn't it?

[GGJohn]

62. Growing number of American?

Got a link for that?
Your last links to me didn't work out like you wanted them to, so how about some links that actually prove what you're claiming?

[another_liberal]

93. Go outside . . .

Ask a few people. You don't need a "link" to know how tired Americans are of what our country is doing in their name.

[GGJohn]

94. So, IOW, you don't have a link?

Thanks for admitting that.

[another_liberal]

95. You don't need one . . .

We are arguing about the obvious! But if you want to go on record as believing that most Americans support continuation of our wars and occupations in the Middle East, be my guest.

[HERVEPA]

56. How is your buddy out west doing?

[another_liberal]

58. You'll have to be a bit more specific . . .

"Out west" is pretty vague.

[GGJohn]

60. Oh, don't be so coy,

you know exactly who poster is referring to.

[another_liberal]

61. And . . .

You are wrong again.

(sigh)

[GGJohn]

63. Uh huh.

[another_liberal]

91. Are you going to tell me what you're talking about or not . . .

?

[JEB]

86. Our allies in the region certainly do not have a good track record. NT

[another_liberal]

92. They aren't allies of the American people anyway . . .

Just of some of our corrupt and criminal masters.