What we could learn from the Victorian classroom

[mia]

Reminded me of my strict teachers in the 50s and 60s. They had high expectations for behavior and achievement, and I loved going to school. Where have today's schools gone wrong?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100069935/what-we-could-learn-from-the-victorian-classroom/?fb

...“Hands in your lap boy!” The children, by now, do not need to be reminded to keep their backs absolutely still and straight – a hard thing to do when sitting on wooden benches. They are doing it on their own. But their hands… Miss Perkins frowns. “Stop fidgeting I said!” Brracck! Down goes her stick! My heart nearly leaps out of my throat as I am at that point reaching into my bag, trying to get out a pad and paper to take notes. So frightened am I that Miss Perkins is going to have my head on a platter for being inattentive.

Miss Perkins explains that a child who attends the school every day without any absence for a month will receive a certificate, and one who does so for an entire year will receive a medal. This will be useful to show employers that one is punctual, healthy and hardworking. One would hear a pin drop, the children are so quiet....

Eventually Miss Perkins heads out of the room and returns, smiling, glasses off, no longer holding her cane. “The lesson is now over everyone! Miss Perkins is gone, and I, Kate, am here instead.” Immediately, the children let out a sigh, the shoulders round over and their hands fall about the place. Kate then begins to talk them through what they have just experienced, and asks them to point out the differences between schools of today and yesteryear.

One clever girl speaks of how much of what they were doing was rote-learning, and there wasn’t much group learning or attention paid to thinking skills. Another talks about how their own teacher is much nicer than Miss Perkins. As they talk on, the more Kate smiles and chats, and the more chatty the children become. No one is sitting properly, some are not listening, and others are rude in their manner. Eventually, they even start to interrupt when Kate is talking. “Who is going to get a certificate then?” One boy shouts....

[saltpoint]

1. Some kids respond better to a Kate as

their teacher while some may respond better to a Miss Perkins.

I don't think posture is a central issue in learning. It's a consideration but not urgent.

I'd favor a significant rehauling of the curriculum and an abrupt end to standardized testing, for starters.

[mia]

9. I agree, but misbehavior in the classroom

overwhelms the opportunity to present any curriculum. No wonder the students can't pass the tests, even though there are far too many. Miss Perkins should provide comfortable chairs for the students, put her pointer away, and vow to never again demean anyone.

[saltpoint]

15. Would love to see universal affordable

healthcare and unfettered lifelong learning.

Tall order, given the current state of affairs, I realize.

But still.

[dixiegrrrrl]

13. Proper posture, esp. at the table, was considered a sign of good manners and social class.

It was judged so important that it carried over into the 1950s, even my parents said "don't slouch" and the were far from the upper class.

The function of schools was, and still is, to train the younger students in desirable behavior.

[saltpoint]

19. I'm sure table manners are still taught

in the home but I would question an over-emphasis on posture in a school setting.

Learning things is a crucial value in a democracy, Madison and Jefferson believed. And it can be fun, too. And it can be revelatory.

For his part, Richard Nixon did not agree:

- - - - -

“What are our schools for if not indoctrination against Communism?”

--Richard M. Nixon
- - - - -

[SusanCalvin]

2. Terrorized or allowed to run amok?

I think the article misses the fact that there's a happy medium.

[mia]

10. Agreed, there is "a happy medium". The author only suggests that there's something to learn.

"I look on, quite amazed. Are these the same children they were just a moment ago? The only thing that has changed is that Miss Perkins has magically transformed into Kate. Clearly, the Victorians didn’t get everything right with regard to education. But nowadays we talk of the Victorian classroom as if they got it all wrong, and we have corrected their errors.

Can we not see that in the 21st century, maybe there is something to be learnt from Miss Perkins and her 19th century classroom? No. In fact in 21st century Britain, to dare to suggest such things is to stamp "dinosaur" on one's forehead and confirm that one has no idea how to teach."

[SusanCalvin]

14. There's a lot to be said for doing the right thing at the right time,

Regarding both whole class and individuals.

A good teacher is a skilled, experienced craftsperson, Teach for America notwithstanding.

[saltpoint]

3. Evidently Miss Perkins doesn't want

the children to be fidgety.

Left to me, I'd hire a Miss Perkins who insists on being called Ms. Perkins and who would know instinctively that kids generally can be fidgety. Very likely kids have always been fidgety. I'm guessing they'll continue to be fidgety in the foreseeable future.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. I can't see how the authoritarian style described in the article

would improve school at all. Yes, a certain amount of discipline is needed to prevent a room full of kids from going completely out of control, but the punitive methods used 100 years ago aren't very conducive to actual learning. I also went to school in the '50s and '60s and we were expected to sit at our desks, raise our hands to be called on to speak; we weren't allowed to run in the halls, had to call teachers "Mrs./Miss/Mr." - but nobody made us sit up straight on hard benches with our hands in our laps; we didn't get yelled at if we didn't know the answer to a question; we didn't have to recite memorized lessons. Fear isn't a very good teaching method. It's not surprising the article is from a conservative publication; they love that authoritarian crap.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Birbalsingh was the darling of the Tory Party for bunking off her job to come and tell them how bad

all her fellow teachers who were still at work were - see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=191x32207

As far as 'Miss Perkins' goes, the thing to remember is that, in real life, the stick used by the actress to punctuate her performance would have been used for physical punishment of the children stepping out of line. And schools are better for that having been banned.

[malthaussen]

6. Back in 1972...

... my high school hired a token feminist (they were called "Libbers" then), who told the class we could either address her as "Ms" or by her first name. Interestingly, most of the class decided to use the new-fangled "Ms" form (not I, I've always been an insolent bastard). We, of course, had been raised in a more authoritarian tradition than is common now (corporal punishment and praying in school, for example, in our first years). Presumably most of them felt uneasy using the teacher's first name.

OTOH, in 1969 I had a teacher who told us to stand up when we recited in class. That didn't last very long, she was unable to enforce that conduct. Things were a bit more radical in that school at that time, anyway: among other delights I was part of a school protest against the dress code, and the next year we had the first Earth Day. A time of transition, I'd say.

-- Mal

[Warren Stupidity]

7. This is a poe right?

[mia]

8. Should it be?

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. No, it's standard thinking for the Daily Telegraph and the Conservative Party

Here is the author addressing the Conservative Party conference:

Fuck knows what it's doing on DU, of course. Is that the 'Poe' you're thinking of?

[Warren Stupidity]

17. yes - I can't believe anyone here seriously thinks that beating children into

submissive compliance is an appropriate teaching method.

[mia]

21. This is a straw man. Right?

[Warren Stupidity]

23. Hey it's your link that discusses the merits of beating the fidget out of kids.

Did you read it? Or did you just gloss over what it was actually claiming was a golden era of education?

[mia]

26. ?

Nowhere are the "merits of beating" children stated, much less suggested. These are your words and your summary of the article. I doubt that you read it.

[zazen]

11. ironically, Common Core's implementation is as authoritarian as the supposed "rote learning"

Educational theorists, and the emerging schools of ed, were criticizing "rote learning" as far back as the early 20th century.

The accusation of "rote learning" ironically became instrumental to the silent hegemony of the education academic and federal establishment. It became the raison d'etre for every "reform" afterward, and the justification for grants and colleges of ed and special courses and consultant-delivered professional development.

Common Core is in theory supposed to be oh so experiential and to promote "critical thinking" skills, but it's been pushed and implemented in the most authoritarian way, which is really mind-fucking, if you think about it.

I can't tell you how many non-critical thinking people (several with PhDs in ed) have pontificated to me about how Common Core "prepares students for the 21st century" to "compete" and "think critically" and "learn to learn" but you can't get any of them to challenge the underlying neoliberal assumptions of endless educational "reforms" or why you'd pair high stakes testing with a supposedly much more portfolio-based pedagogy. They just fall in line behind the Gates agenda and do as they're told, while silencing anyone who questions why we're allowing corporatists to set the agenda for our schools.

[mia]

12. Teachers have been reduced to robots as they follow the scripts and routines

demanded by the Common Core curriculum. At a nearby school, all teachers in a grade level must be teaching the exact same skills on any given day. There is to be no deviation from what is in the "Standards" for a particular grade level. For not doing so, teachers have been chastised in front of the students by principals and assistant principals. It's demeaning for the teachers, but once they have become Gates' automatons, who needs them? Virtual teachers can take over. They're a lot cheaper and do exactly what they're told.

Corporatists will continue to set the agendas as long as they are allowed to buy off the politicians.

[Egnever]

18. That is not common core that is your schools implementation of it.

And I would have to agree it is a ridiculous implementation of it.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. the common core advocates wedded themselves to the testing industry

and as a consequence common core became indefensible. I've stopped trying. In and of itself it was fine, but as I said there is now no way to separate CC from Big Fat Test Co. So fuck it.

[hunter]

20. Perfect attendance shouldn't be celebrated.

Not at school, not at work.

People who chose not to share their illnesses with others by staying home, parents who stay home with sick children, they are the ones who should be celebrated.

[fishwax]

22. I don't think the article makes a very convincing point

Kids were playing along with a performance. Then when the performance was over, they reverted to a more natural mode of behavior. What are we supposed to learn from this about the benefits of the Victorian classroom?

[Warren Stupidity]

25. Stop Fidgeting!