Live now President Obama Delivers Remarks on Reducing Gun Violence

[Sunlei]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/live

[MADem]

1. This is Barack's FDR Moment!!! You GO, POTUS!!!!

He's got Sandy Hook parents and others up there with him.

I am loving this.....

Gabby Giffords is there as well with her husband, too.

Mayor of Boston, too....

:large

[ChisolmTrailDem]

2. I admire how he is often looking directly at the camera, bringing us watching this on TV..

...into the room with him.

[Sunlei]

3. 30,000 Americans a YEAR- DIE by gunshot. Thirty-Thousand People.

[pipoman]

4. 20k plus of that number intentionally shoot themselves

[Sunlei]

5. yes, the President said some of the 30,000 are suicides.

[B2G]

6. "Most" would have been more accurate. nt

[LanternWaste]

11. And assuage the sensibilities of anyone attempting to paint an irrlevant distinction.

And would also have assuaged the sensibilities of anyone attempting to paint an irrelevant distinction.

As to its accuracy, one definition being "unspecified but considerable in number, amount, degree, etc..." it appears rather valid in both context and usage.

[gwheezie]

13. Well he just cleared that up for you

He said almost 2 out of 3 deaths are suicides

[pipoman]

8. 2/3 are suicides

[rufus dog]

9. Does it do damage?

Will a background check increase or reduce that number?

And before you out up some lame ignorant fucking fact which is used to defend doing nothing think about it. Stop lights slow me down, I want lights all green from my house to the freeway, fuck everyone else, I want what I want, no restrictions, I drive safely, why should I be impacted by anyone else.

Finally, and caps are on purpose, YOUR FUCKING RIGHT TO UNFETTERED ACCESS TO GUNS DOES NOT TRUMP OTHERS RIGHTS TO SAFETY.

[pipoman]

15. People don't kill themselves because they have a gun

They kill themselves because they are suicidal.

[rufus dog]

22. And people would rather use obfuscation than answer simple questions

Simple fucking question, no fucking answer.

That is typical from the pro gun side, inability to answer simple fucking questions. It is truly pathetic.

[pipoman]

31. The question was silly. what background check are you talking about?

There will be no change based on any description Ive seen so far...no background checks on intrastate private sales.

[whatthehey]

35. I can't imagine it would materially affect that number onew ay or another

Background checks are a good idea for all sales. Nary a problem with them at all. But if you are going to kill yourself and want a gun to do it AND you are somehow precluded from buying a gun (no background check on earth can screen for suicidal desire if there is no other impediment to purchase) I doubt the penalties for an illegal purchase will deter you. It doesn't deter people who want to get high on heroin now and killing yourself is a bit more final.

Background checks even if applied universally will probably have a minimal but slightly positive OVERALL impact. The only way they will though is for people who fit ALL the below criteria.

Unable to legally buy a gun
Incapable of finding an illegal seller or deterred by possible penalties of illegal purchase
Willing to shoot self or others
Unwilling or unable to harm self or others by other means

But that's it. If any one of those does not apply, or obviously more, then perfect UBC would do bugger all.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

38. So 10K is negligible?

[pipoman]

42. None are negligible

The question must be, in the absence of guns what would the net reduction of the 30k be? Certainly some, most of the 10k are criminals motivated to kill.

Im all about reduction and have been an advocate for better enforcement for years. I just don't pretend that there will ever be a reduction in these killings by people who wish to kill or by people who want to kill themselves.

[flamingdem]

7. Gun Lobby "can not hold America hostage"!

Big applause line.

Take that Wayne

[firebrand80]

10. Man, I'm going to miss him nt

[ChisolmTrailDem]

12. Anyone in the business of selling guns must be licensed and conduct comprehensive background checks

...and it gets better.

[Straw Man]

14. That's already federal law.

It has been since 1993. What has changed?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

17. An executive order from the president that demands enforcement of existing laws. nt

[dumbcat]

24. I have to wonder why a President needs to issue an EO

to his own law enforcement departments to tell them to enforce Federal Law. What am I missing?

[DustyJoe]

29. consistancy

Now if he would reverse his earlier instructions to DHS, INS, ICE and Border Patrol to ignore federal immigration laws and allow unfettered, unvetted access across our borders, THEN I would consider his views on federal law enforcement as consistant and balanced across the board. Till then, just window dressing telling one federal LEO to do their jobs right while instructing other federal LEO's to ignore the laws. You cannot be a nation of laws if you can select which ones to bother with. (PS ex LEO myself).

[MohRokTah]

18. Directing the ATF on how to determine who is in the business of selling guns.

It's an end run round the gun show loophole. Simply putting regulations in place that will shut down most gun show sales that occur without a background check.

[hack89]

21. Not really

private sales will still happen.

[MohRokTah]

25. A person making 25 private sales per year is in the business of selling guns,...

under this executive action.

That is a reasonable breakoff point under current law.

Now we need Congress to act to require any transfer of any firearm go through an FFL, allowing the FFL to charge a fee for the service.

[hack89]

26. Private sales are a state issue

that is why this "loophole" exists in the first place - when crafting the Brady bill, Congress did not have the power to regulate intrastate gun sales.

[MohRokTah]

27. The feds can close it easily under the commerce clause.

Guns are sold across state lines, thus the feds have governing control under the commerce clause.

The feds can easily require all gun sales be through an FFL.

[hack89]

28. Private sales by definition do not cross state lines

by existing federal law any gun sale that crosses state lines must go through a licensed gun dealer. Private sales are when a citizen of a state sells a gun to another citizen of that state while both are physically in that state.

[Straw Man]

30. Correct.

Definitions for clarity:

intrastate: within one state
interstate: between two states

Interstate sales, even between two "private" (non-dealer) individuals, must go through a dealer and a background check, per current federal law. That hasn't changed.

[pipoman]

34. No they can't

For exactly the same reason they were exempted in 1994 and why they are still exempt today....20 years later....exactly why the president didn't order it today...can't be done.

[dumbcat]

33. Nope, the "business of selling guns" is already defined in 18 USC Sec 921

An Executive Action does not change the law.

U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 44 › § 921
18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions

(11) The term “dealer” means (A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail, (B) any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or (C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term “licensed dealer” means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

(21) The term “engaged in the business” means—
(
(C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

Neither the law nor the BATFE states how many guns one must sell to be considered "intent to make a livelihood" of selling firearms. That is up to judges and juries. The prosecutor must prove "intent" beyond a reasonable doubt.

[TeddyR]

37. I think the president

Is trying to clarify (and arguably broaden) the definition of "person engaged in the business of selling firearms." At least that's what an article on the WaPo said.

[dumbcat]

40. But if and when a case goes to court

what counts is what the law says, not what the President would like it to be. The prosecutor has to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused broke the law as written. A judge cannot allow the prosecutor to try to submit an EO as "law." And the defense will so inform the jury. If these principles are violated it is grounds for appeal.

[dumbcat]

41. Where do you see the 25 sales per year figure in the EOs?

I haven't seen that.

[flamingdem]

16. Potus shedding tears remembering first graders shot dead nt

[H2O Man]

19. Recommended!

I am extremely impressed with his powerful presentation.

[Chuuku Davis]

20. I am not seeing where it accomplishes anything

What part am I missing?

[hack89]

23. Some minor adjustments but nothing significant. nt

[randr]

32. By placing this in the legislatures lap

Obama is handing the Democrats a social issue to run on. The fright wing has used their so called right to life and anti gay issues for decades to get out their vote. I hope the Democrat's running for office jump on this as the proposals Obama has put forth are enormously popular and should give our winning candidates an even larger victory.

[pipoman]

36. There is no instances of this being a winning issue at the polls ..the opposite

[randr]

43. Please be specific

When has anyone run based on the items of Obama's proposals?
Every poll I have seen for the last number of years has the people wanting stricter rules for acquiring weapons by wide margins. Even the NRA keeps up the mantra of "just enforce the laws we have".

[pipoman]

44. What proposals?

Gun control as a whole doesn't have much support and tends to cost more than it gains in a lot of states.

[Matrosov]

39. This accomplishes nothing

His heart is in the right place, but I don't see this as accomplishing anything. Many shooters passed the background checks and were 'law-abiding gun owners' before they started shooting. Meanwhile, those with prior convictions aren't going to go to a licensed dealer in the first place. They'll either steal a weapon or buy it off the streets.

While he didn't mention them, I also think we are too obsessed with the subjects of assault rifles and high capacity magazines. Let's not forget that the majority of gun deaths are not the result of mass shootings like in San Bernardino. Long guns in general are involved in only a small percentage of the overall gun deaths.

Let's start going after a major source of the problem, handguns. They are by far the most popular choice when it comes to firearm-related crimes. Sadly, as long as most gun owners are white and most victims are people of color, that won't happen. (Remember, much of the earliest gun control was actually meant to keep weapons out of the hands of African-Americans; now that the law can no longer discriminate based on race, whites have been trying to push in the opposite direction and reduce the amount of gun control).