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applegrove

(118,832 posts)
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:11 PM Jan 2016

Ted Cruz produces mother’s birth certificate after both parents found on Canadian voter list

Ted Cruz produces mother’s birth certificate after both parents found on Canadian voter list

Newsweek, the Raw Story

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/ted-cruz-produces-mothers-birth-certificate-after-both-parents-found-on-canadian-voter-list/

"SNIP...............



Grayson has also challenged the idea that Cruz's mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth, in 1970. An earlier report published by Breitbart showed that both of Cruz's parents were listed on a Canadian federal voter list from 1974. Since only Canadian citizens are permitted to vote in federal elections there, the presence of Cruz's parents' names on the list raises the possibility that they may have been Canadian citizens at one time.

And because becoming a Canadian citizen requires an oath of allegiance—and Section 349 of the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act stipulates that American citizens who swear allegiance to another country may lose their American citizenship—it seems possible that Cruz's mother may have lost her American citizenship. This would mean that Cruz was not a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth and is therefore ineligible to become president.

However, Diane Benson, a spokeswoman for Elections Canada, tells Newsweek that the presence of a person's name on a voter roll does not necessarily mean that he or she was legally allowed to vote. It was not immediately clear if that rule was the same in 1974, when Cruz's mother's name appeared on the list.



..................SNIP"
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Ted Cruz produces mother’s birth certificate after both parents found on Canadian voter list (Original Post) applegrove Jan 2016 OP
GOP chickens coming home.... applegrove Jan 2016 #1
exactly Liberal_in_LA Jan 2016 #30
Wheres the long form? Katashi_itto Jan 2016 #2
lol. nt restorefreedom Jan 2016 #18
Lol Liberal_in_LA Jan 2016 #31
what would be really ironic drray23 Jan 2016 #3
It looks like Cruz is an illegal alien. nt Cali_Democrat Jan 2016 #4
Can't we at least deport him until we can figure it out? dogman Jan 2016 #6
either that, or ... surrealAmerican Jan 2016 #9
How would this be voter fraud? jberryhill Jan 2016 #11
If I'm reading this correctly ... surrealAmerican Jan 2016 #14
So? jberryhill Jan 2016 #36
It wouldn't be a violation of US law. surrealAmerican Jan 2016 #40
Oh sweet irony. Drahthaardogs Jan 2016 #15
He looks like an illegal extraterrestrial alien. TexasProgresive Jan 2016 #16
And the plot thickens, guess he may not be a citizen and will lose his Thinkingabout Jan 2016 #5
Well looks like the entire bogus birther bullshit ReTHUGs used against Obama malaise Jan 2016 #7
Easy on the chocolate.... Historic NY Jan 2016 #17
ROFL malaise Jan 2016 #38
This is starting to look like a problem for Cruz. earthside Jan 2016 #8
Do you apply this reasoning to Jews in the US? jberryhill Jan 2016 #10
In the article. earthside Jan 2016 #13
"may lose", NOT "shall lose" MohRokTah Jan 2016 #20
It's ironic...I had the booze, she had the chronic alcibiades_mystery Jan 2016 #12
Hey asshole Cruz, that's not good enough, is it? You need to prove she thereismore Jan 2016 #19
I said in another thread that his mother's Ilsa Jan 2016 #21
Curious ryan_cats Jan 2016 #22
Except that THEY started the whole thing to begin with. 6000eliot Jan 2016 #23
Aren't ryan_cats Jan 2016 #24
I'm happy to be better than them tazkcmo Jan 2016 #26
That is the reason why we are gloating. It was a vicious fiction applegrove Jan 2016 #25
Your slip is showing, ryan ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2016 #28
Not even remotely the same thing. gwheezie Jan 2016 #29
Here's the difference: Does the evidence raise a good-faith question about eligibility? Jim Lane Jan 2016 #33
Except that Obama was actuallyborn in Hawaii but that didn't matter to the racists malaise Jan 2016 #39
KARMA is a bitch in Jimmy Choo heels underthematrix Jan 2016 #27
Sorry, but...no Spider Jerusalem Jan 2016 #32
There's a slight qualification to your statement of the law. Jim Lane Jan 2016 #34
... Spider Jerusalem Jan 2016 #35
I don't understand your Obama comment. Jim Lane Jan 2016 #37

drray23

(7,638 posts)
3. what would be really ironic
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:14 PM
Jan 2016

is if it turns out both parents were canadians. That would make Ted Cruz an Illegal immigrant since he would not have gained citizenship at all.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
11. How would this be voter fraud?
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:54 PM
Jan 2016

Is it voter fraud when other US citizens vote in foreign elections?

Not all countries require citizenship as a condition of voting.

surrealAmerican

(11,364 posts)
14. If I'm reading this correctly ...
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:57 PM
Jan 2016

... Canada does require citizenship to vote.

You're right that not all countries do.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
36. So?
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:22 AM
Jan 2016

Until a few months ago Ted was also a Canadian citizen.

Israel also limits its voting to citizens. Many US citizens vote in Israel's elections.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
5. And the plot thickens, guess he may not be a citizen and will lose his
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:22 PM
Jan 2016

Senator office. He also renounced his Canadian citizenship, the boy dont have a country.

malaise

(269,201 posts)
7. Well looks like the entire bogus birther bullshit ReTHUGs used against Obama
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:23 PM
Jan 2016

is coming back to haunt them.
We have a proverb here - same knife stick sheep stick goat!!!
I'm freaking lovin' it. Pass me some chocolates please

earthside

(6,960 posts)
8. This is starting to look like a problem for Cruz.
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:27 PM
Jan 2016

The mother's birth certificate doesn't necessarily get him off the hook.

The parent's name on the Canadian voter rolls does indicate that more investigation is needed.

At the least, this could raise some doubts about Cruz in Iowa and New Hampshire -- considering the popularity of anti-immigration policies and 'birtherism' in the Repuglican Party, this makes Cruz look very hypocritical at the very least.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
10. Do you apply this reasoning to Jews in the US?
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:52 PM
Jan 2016

In what way does voting in another countries elections affect one's status as a US citizen?

earthside

(6,960 posts)
13. In the article.
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:57 PM
Jan 2016
And because becoming a Canadian citizen requires an oath of allegiance—and Section 349 of the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act stipulates that American citizens who swear allegiance to another country may lose their American citizenship—it seems possible that Cruz's mother may have lost her American citizenship. This would mean that Cruz was not a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth and is therefore ineligible to become president.
 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
20. "may lose", NOT "shall lose"
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 11:47 PM
Jan 2016

Important point of law right there. She may have lost citizenship, yet the United States government took no assertive steps to revoke her citizenship, ergo, she did not lose her citizenship.

There is a HUGE legal difference between "may" and "shall".

thereismore

(13,326 posts)
19. Hey asshole Cruz, that's not good enough, is it? You need to prove she
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 10:43 PM
Jan 2016

did not lose her citizenship before your ass was born.

Ilsa

(61,700 posts)
21. I said in another thread that his mother's
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 11:53 PM
Jan 2016

Citizenship at the time of his birth needs to be rxplored and considered in determining whether he is a US citizen. Of course, then someone told me we should only consider Cruz's Canadian citizenship being renounced just two years ago.

ryan_cats

(2,061 posts)
22. Curious
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 12:46 AM
Jan 2016

Curious that the outrage when it was against the President turns to smug gloating when it is against the other side. It does matter whose ox is being gored.

I guess integrity is fine when it costs nothing.

6000eliot

(5,643 posts)
23. Except that THEY started the whole thing to begin with.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 12:54 AM
Jan 2016

Is it gloating or schadenfreude? Who cares? I'm in!

tazkcmo

(7,303 posts)
26. I'm happy to be better than them
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:10 AM
Jan 2016

99% of the time. Times like this, when they're bullshit obstruction, distractions and questioning our President's citizenship, nationality and integrity on the basis of his skin color come back to hit them square in the face make up the 1% of the time I'm I'm even happier to be just as mean spirited as them.

applegrove

(118,832 posts)
25. That is the reason why we are gloating. It was a vicious fiction
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:04 AM
Jan 2016

when it was directed at the President. It is a tactic being used by chaotic Trump against Cruz. Based on facts. Not racism. Not lies. It has in common that they are both attempts by Trump to isolate his target from the base. Cruz tried to get out in front of it. Trump is a heat seeking missile. No way Obama could get out in front of a fiction. There are not enough words in the universe to get out in front of all the potential made up stories a fabulous like Trump could potentially come up with. Nothing to do with integrity. Just the facts. This is in fact a weakness of Cruz.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
28. Your slip is showing, ryan
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:38 AM
Jan 2016

I'm gonna ask you to produce one long form post that hasn't been some sort of "We Dems are soooo mean!" concern trolling real soon.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
29. Not even remotely the same thing.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:59 AM
Jan 2016

Obama was born in the united States, unless you believe he was actually born in Kenya.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
33. Here's the difference: Does the evidence raise a good-faith question about eligibility?
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 02:29 AM
Jan 2016

In Obama's case there simply was no such evidence of foreign birth.

In Cruz's case, this Canadian voter roll is something that at least merits further inquiry. My guess is that it won't pan out. Maybe Cruz's parents thought they were filling out a census form and didn't realize that it included automatic voter registration. Maybe a Canadian government employee made a mistake. Odds are that there's an explanation that doesn't disqualify Cruz, but to inquire about the explanation is vasty different from the totally spurious birther arguments raised about Obama.

malaise

(269,201 posts)
39. Except that Obama was actuallyborn in Hawaii but that didn't matter to the racists
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:43 AM
Jan 2016

and the hacks in the media

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
27. KARMA is a bitch in Jimmy Choo heels
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:32 AM
Jan 2016

I want to see Ted Cruz' birth certificate. And how does someone end up on a Canadian federal voter registration lits if they did not do anything to get on the list.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
32. Sorry, but...no
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 02:09 AM
Jan 2016

INA: ACT 349 - LOSS OF NATIONALITY BY NATIVE-BORN OR NATURALIZED CITIZEN


Sec. 349. [8 U.S.C. 1481]

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality-

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years


Merely becoming a naturalised citizen of another country is not sufficient in itself to extinguish US citizenship. Intent to relinquish US citizenship is a requirement. (There are a significant number of dual US-Israeli citizens, for instance, who have fulfilled their requirement of Israeli military service, yet remain US citizens.) This nonsense isn't any better than the Obama birtherism. As long as Cruz's mother was a US citizen at the time of his birth, Cruz himself is a US citizen.
 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
34. There's a slight qualification to your statement of the law.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 02:36 AM
Jan 2016

You write, "As long as Cruz's mother was a US citizen at the time of his birth, Cruz himself is a US citizen." That's not so. Given the law in effect at the time, Cruz obtained citizenship at birth only if his mother was then a citizen AND she had met certain residency requirements.

One lacuna in the natural-born citizen provision of the Constitution is that it doesn't set forth a procedure for making the determination, including the allocation of the burden of proof. Cruz's mother had probably lived in the U.S. enough to qualify, but can Cruz prove it? Does his mother still have her rent receipts and utility bills from the 1960s? Does Cruz have to prove it, or does a challenger have to prove that his mother had actually run off to Paris and lived there until moving to Canada?

There's really no basis for doubting that she met the residency requirements, which is why I call this a slight qualification. Still, it's necessary for a completely accurate statement of the law that was then in effect.

Incidentally, Obama's mother, who was much younger than Cruz's mother, clearly did not meet the residency requirements. That's why the whole Kenyan birth myth was attractive to the right. If Obama, like Cruz, had been born abroad, then he would not have been a citizen at birth. IOW, Obama's eligibility rests on the fact that he was born in the United States, making his mother's history immaterial.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
35. ...
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 03:17 AM
Jan 2016
That's not so. Given the law in effect at the time, Cruz obtained citizenship at birth only if his mother was then a citizen AND she had met certain residency requirements.


Those residency requirements?

On December 24, 1952, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 (the "1952 Statute&quot became effective. As under the previous statute, where both parents were U.S. citizens, one parent would have to have resided in the United States prior to the child's birth in order to transmit U.S. citizenship. The meaning of residence previously applied under the 1940 Statute was essentially the same as under the 1952 Statute.

In the case of a child born to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent, the U.S. citizen parent now had only to be physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions prior to the child's birth for 10 years, at least 5 of which were after the age of 14.


Cruz's mother pretty clearly meets those residency requirements (as did Obama's mother; the requirement for a person born in the USA, as Obama was, is "US citizen parent present in the US for one year prior to birth&quot .
 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
37. I don't understand your Obama comment.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:30 AM
Jan 2016

A person born in the USA, as Obama was, is ipso facto a citizen under the Fourteenth Amendment, regardless of whether either parent was a citizen (let alone whether either had met a residency requirement). The only exception is children born to diplomats who have diplomatic immunity. What's the context of the language you quote about a citizen parent being present for one year? I don't understand the circumstances under which that would be a material fact.

My point was that Obama's mother did not meet the residency requirements for transmitting citizenship to a child born abroad. That's why the birthers made such a thing about alleging Kenyan birth. (A few of them went so far as to say that Obama, even if born in Hawaii, wasn't eligible because his father was not a citizen. That's even more whacked-out than the "mainstream" birther position, that challenged his Hawaiian birth certificate on the basis of zero evidence.)

Cruz really is different because he has no equivalent of Obama's birth certificate, i.e., the single document that establishes his eligibility. Because it's not disputed that he was born abroad and that his father was not then a citizen, the question of his mother's residency history arises. She "pretty clearly" meets the requirements but it's not quite as clear as was Obama's evidence. She has no "certificate of residency in the United States" to prove that she was here. The sensible basis for considering Cruz eligible arises from the absence of evidence: There's no good-faith reason to believe that she spent a lot of time outside the United States after turning 14.

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