Police: Constable serving eviction order kills 12-year-old

[rug]

Ciara Meyer, 12

January 12, 2016
4:49 PM

DUNCANNON, Pa. (AP) — A constable serving an eviction order at a central Pennsylvania apartment fired at an armed tenant but the bullet passed through the man's arm and fatally struck his 12-year-old daughter, authorities said.

The constable went to the apartment near Duncannon, about 10 miles northwest of Harrisburg, at about 10 a.m. Monday to enforce a district judge's eviction order, state police said Tuesday.

A man answered the door, closed it, then reopened it and exchanged words briefly with the constable, police said. He then pointed a loaded .223-caliber rifle that had been "slung and concealed along his body" at the constable's chest, police said. The girl was standing behind her father, authorities said.

The constable, investigators said, drew his own .40-caliber weapon and fired once, but the bullet went through the man's upper left arm and hit the girl. She was pronounced dead at the scene. Her name wasn't immediately released.

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/pennsylvania/mc-police-constable-serving-eviction-order-kills-12yearold-20160112-story.html

It's more than guns. It's class warfare.

[LiberalArkie]

1. It always has been class warfare. Look at how police have been dressed forever. Nice tailored

clothes, a tie and tie-clasp. Even patrol officers for years wore a tie. Nothing says business like a tie.

[rug]

4. Evicting families from property, at gunpoint, distills the whole rotten system.

[malaise]

7. Yep but the system is all about the property owners

they don't give a flying fugg about the poor or renters

[Waldorf]

9. Seems it was the evictee that was pointing the gun. I blame this whole thing on the father.

[rug]

16. As long as yo're looking at the "whole thing", have you considered why this family was being evicted

in the first place? Have you considered how it came to be that property rights justify a killing?

[REP]

26. The article doesn't say why, but one can infer from the man going to the door, heavily armed

that either he had generated a number of complaints (a man who opens the door with a large, loaded semi-auto rifle may have threatened others with his gun/s)

or

non-payment of rent

[rug]

92. "non-payment of rent" is by far the mosre common basis ror evictions.

So we're talking poverty. When poverty meets property, someone dies. In this case it was the tenant's daughter.

[840high]

134. I read somewhere else it

was non-payment of rent.

[dumbcat]

34. The judge must have considered it

If the father hadn't opened the door carrying a weapon ......

[rug]

93. Not if the man didn't have a lawyer, which is just another part of poverty.

It's no accident Congress has consistently reduced funding to the Legal Services Corporation.

The man shouldn't have carried a gun to the door. But that's only the tail end of the story, not its core.

[snooper2]

80. So I guess you will be okay with the Bundy fuckers pointing guns at federal marshals

right?

[rug]

94. You suck at guessing.

Instead of fabricating guesses, why don't you count the facts that are different.

I'll start: Are the marshals there because Bundy could not pay his rent?

[AlbertCat]

85. property rights justify a killing?

He didn't shoot because of property rights.

[rug]

95. He was there to enforce property rights.

And killed a child in the process.

She didn't die because her father had money to pay the rent.

[Ghost in the Machine]

169. "She didn't die because her father had money to pay the rent."... No, she sure didn't!

She died because her dumbass "father" pointed a loaded weapon at an officer of the law.

I am one of the last ones to defend a cop, but he was justified in firing due to fearing for his life. I also have questions. 1: Did he see the girl standing behind the father? I know it's a split second reaction to draw and fire when someone has a weapon already pointed at you. 2: Was he aiming for center mass, and such a bad shot that he hit an arm instead? Sure, his fear could have affected his accuracy, too. If he did in fact see the girl, maybe he thought hitting center mass wouldn't fully penetrate the perpetrator. 3: How long has he been a Constable, and does anyone know whether he has ever discharged his weapon in the line of duty before?

All valid questions, and the point remains that the FATHER is to blame for pointing a weapon at a cop. If he could afford a .223 caliber, most likely an AR-15, he could afford to pay rent... even if he had to sell his rifle to do so.

My heart breaks for the innocent little girl....

Ghost

[Eleanors38]

115. It appears the constable was defending himself, not justifying property over life.

Evictions are touchy confrontations, and the use of legal force in many places is left to a constable.

[840high]

135. Yes. Father pointed rifle first.

[liberalhistorian]

45. The idiot constable shares the blame here.

You don't fire at someone when a child is standing right behind him. They're both guilty and they both need to be charged.

[Waldorf]

58. The guy pulled a loaded gun on the constable and pointed it at him. I find no fault on the constable

[840high]

133. I do, too. Point

a weapon at a policeman - no good will come happen.

[matt819]

157. If the police report is truthful

And therein lies the problem with what's been happening. The first inclination s to disbelieve the police.

[hfojvt]

39. so families should be allowed to stay rent-free?

it seems pretty simple to me - either pay the rent or get out.

A person must be pretty far behind if the cops are coming to evict.

Maybe the dude could have sold his gun and used that money to pay some rent.

[LanternWaste]

87. No doubt, your admittedly simplistic application of thought

"it seems pretty simple to me - either pay the rent or get out..."

No doubt, your admittedly simplistic application of thought will indeed, rarely allow more than two bumper-sticker options, as you so aptly illustrated.

Nuance, context, and relevance are far too inconvenient if we are allowed the luxurious ease of facile contemplation... especially when given the predisposition of bias.

[840high]

136. You didn't answer the question.

[villager]

171. Sometimes families aren't "far behind" at all, if an eviction will allow a higher rent to be charged

...for the next tenant.

[hfojvt]

172. that's not my experience

not that THAT is universal.

I had a deadbeat mooching on me for several months. After a few months, I asked a cop "how can I get this guy out". I cannot remember all the details, but the bottom line was that it was a several month process, and I ended up waiting him out.

[Rex]

185. That only happens if you are a large enough RWing militant gun humping group.

Then you can loot, vandalize and pillage anything you want to.

[liberalhistorian]

44. Evictions have almost always been done that way in this country,

only during the Depression, and a few other times of severe economic distress, there would often be groups of neighbors, friends, family and community members who'd show up to prevent the evictions or foreclosures. They would ultimately be unsuccessful, but it bought time for those under eviction/foreclosure. The groups were also rarely fired on. This constable's action, when he knew that there was a child standing right there, is sickening and unconscionable.

[rug]

96. That's solid history.

Bound to be repeated.

[840high]

137. So is the father's action.

[villager]

170. "The police are mostly here to protect the banks"

When, as a young man, I read that line -- in a book of essays and poems from Gary Snyder -- a big light bulb went off.

I didn't trust them much before that. But that one line clarified and distilled their true "mission."

[Xipe Totec]

2. Heartbreaking nt

[REP]

3. The asshole pointing a fully loaded .223 rifle at a cop is to blame for his daughter being dead

He knew his daughter was behind him, but he aimed an assault-style rifle with one in the chamber and 30 in the magazine at a cop, who did what anyone knows an armed cop will do when drawn on. He killed his own daughter. Fuck him. I hope he loses his arm.

[LiberalArkie]

5. Yes he is. He should have sent her to another room if he wanted to commit police

suicide.

[REP]

10. Or just not pulled a loaded, big-ass gun on a cop, period

If he wanted to commit Blue Suicide, well, he shouldn't have tried to make his daughter witness that - or him murderering a cop.

[840high]

159. The girl was in State custody at

one time. Read the statement by clara's family.

Despite the tragedy, Ron Rhode, who is related to Ciara by marriage, said today that the family feel sorry for Steele, adding: 'I cried for that constable.'

Rhode, who said he was speaking on behalf of the whole family, said: 'None of us in our family have any hard feelings toward him. Actually we feel sorry for him. He's got to live with this, the poor man, and he had no idea what he was walking into.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3398419/I-cried-man-Family-girl-12-shot-dead-constable-served-eviction-notice-father-say-not-blame-officer-death.html#ixzz3xBJhKqh7
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[rug]

6. The landlord will deduct the cost of cleaning his daughter's blood from the security deposit.

Fuck this post.

[REP]

8. No need to self-fornicate your post; I'm sure you agree pulling a loaded assault-style rifle

on an armed cop was not a smart move? Perhaps a move guaranteed to produce a Blue Suicide?

Mr Big Gun is being evicted. The deposit will be applied to his delinquent rent.

ETA: Mr Big Gun's housing problems should be solved now, though; between being a guest of the State and the inevitable GoFundMe, he'll have a roof.

[rug]

13. I'm glad you find this story cute enough for poor quips.

You miss the point - by far.

While you applaud this killing as a righteous act of self-defense by an armed constable (not a police officer at all), you don't even glance at the notion of killing a child to recover property. The use of deadly force to recover private property - to cheers - goes a long way to explain where this country is.

[REP]

19. No, my friend - you miss the point. The evictee was armed and acted aggressively first.

As we all know from a not-that-long-ago cause celebre here on DU, it takes quite a bit of time to evict someone and the final step is the local constabulary bringing the final notice at a particular day. This man chose to greet the constable with a FULLY LOADED, READY TO FIRE .223 SEMI-AUTOMATIC ASSAULT-STYLE RIFLE. Anyone, absolutely anyone knows what happens when you draw on a cop: you get shot.

Did I comment about the eviction itself? Other than to point out he'll be housed by the State, no. The point is is that the eviction didn't cause this child to be dead, but the idiotic actions of her armed father did. What was his plan? Make her watch a murder? Witness his death by cop? You don't point a fully loaded .223 at a cop and expect nothing to happen.

[rug]

97. You clearly are more informed about the use of deadly force than evictions and poverty.

For one thing, the constable was there top serve an eviction order, which is a court order fpr the tenants - and their living children - to get out by a fixed date. If they do not, then the police, always more than one, come to literally recover the property with the use of deadly force if anyway.

This was not the shootot at the OK Corral.

As to what you did say about the eviction, "he'll be housed by the State", that is at best, speculation, and at worst, wishful thinking. The causes of poverty, resulting in thousands of evictions in the first place, are the same causes why there are few funds and many restrictions on government housing.

The man shouldn't have answered the door with a gun. But don't fool yourself thinking that is the basic story here.

[Travis_0004]

24. Its not about recovering property, its about having a gun pointed at you.

If I go drive 75mph down the highway, and get pulled over, then I pull a gun on a cop, I'm likely to get shot at.

I'm not getting shot at for speeding, I'm getting shot at for pulling a gun.

[dumbcat]

36. "While you applaud this killing ..."

That's got to be about the biggest dumbshit statement I have ever heard, and that's saying a lot.

You should self delete this post or be considered a .......

[REP]

69. I believe this post

was intended to troll us. Not just the one aimed at me, but the OP. After all, an assault-style rifle, probably an AR-15 with a 30-round magazine, is part of the story yet nothing was made of that - only the eviction (which turns out to have been for non-payment of rent) and that was framed as some class warfare nonsense.

[rug]

99. Given the name you've chosen, that's not saying much at all.

What do you call this statement, "Fuck him. I hope he loses his arm."

[liberalhistorian]

49. Property and money have

always meant more than human lives in this country. It's baked into our history.

[lame54]

125. he didn't willfully kill the child...

he reacted to having his life threatened

this is a horrible story on many levels

but I think you are missing the point

[Travis_0004]

22. Imassuming if you get evicted, there is no security deposit left.

[aikoaiko]

14. Felony murder for the father.

[rug]

18. There was no felony by the father in the first place.

Not that the state would not be eager to prosecute. Look for a jury summons.

[REP]

20. Did you miss this part?

He then pointed a loaded .223-caliber rifle that had been "slung and concealed along his body" at the constable's chest, police said.

That's a crime, whether he does it to a cop or you. Pointing it at a cop is sure to get someone dead.

[rug]

129. At the risk of wasting my time, do you have any substance to offer, frankie?

Otherwise, I would gladly exchange personal insults with you. But only an idiot would do that. Since I'm not, I won't.

[Yo_Mama]

47. It's a felony to threaten someone with a weapon except in self-defense.

To prevent an eviction ordered by a court is not self-defense.

What was this man thinking????

[Blue_Tires]

88. Here you go:

The man being evicted, Donald Meyer, 57, was flown to Hershey Medical Center for treatment. He is charged with aggravated and simple assault, terroristic threats, and recklessly endangering another person. A phone listed in his name wasn't working Tuesday and court documents don't list an attorney who could respond to the accusations.

[rug]

100. Here you go:

Perry County coroner rules shooting death of 12-year-old a homicide

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/01/perry_county_coroner_rules_dea.html

[Blue_Tires]

113. So the father didn't point a loaded weapon at the constable?

[rug]

130. That remains to be seen.

Carrying is not pointing. There are only two who can say.

Not that that will stop anyone.

[Blue_Tires]

132. Then I'd be curious to know why he was 'carrying'

Because dude got the call and knew in advance the constable was en route to serve eviction papers...

[rug]

149. Who knows? Maybe it's as simple as he was a hunter and he was desparate.

Maybe he spent all his money on a bus ticket to a trump rally.

It doesn't matter. His daughter is now dead. If this system was not geared to enforce property rights - with deadly force - and had decent options for people who can't pay rent, he'd have a roof over his head without bars, the constable would still be working, and his daughter would be texting her friends.

[Blue_Tires]

174. And then I would ask if the father tried working with social services

or any number of assistance programs available to him...

If he truly exhausted every last one of his options before deciding to go out shooting or hoping to scare away the guy serving papers by pointing a loaded rifle at him, then I do have a measure of sympathy for him...

[rug]

194. That is irrelevant.

[Blue_Tires]

196. It's irrelevant whether or not

the father sought help through legit, legal means?

So for you the father's only course of action was to go down shooting (or at the minimum, try to scare away an LEO by pointing a gun at him)..

Got it....

[rug]

197. It's irrelevant becase a Section 8 voucher won't stop the bullet that killed his daughter.

You are of the opinion that all of a poorfamily needs to avoid an eviction is to ask for help - and there it is.

No, you don't get it.

[Blue_Tires]

198. OK, fine

At least be upfront and have the stones to say what you really want to, which is you would rather the father shot the constable first... Yeah, the father would have spent the rest of his life in prison, and his home repossessed and the daughter would have been made a ward of the state, but at least she would have lived...

That must be what you're wishing for, because that is the ONLY scenario where the daughter comes out of this alive once this specific chain of events had been set in motion, to the point when the constable knocked on that door... Silly me for daring to think there might have been some actions the father could have taken *earlier* in the event chain to avoid such a desperate action and tragic outcome...

But fuck it -- Your solution is as good as any... Just make a stand and go down shooting (but make sure beforehand that any loved ones are out of the line of any potential retaliatory fire).

[rug]

199. You assume the constable is telling the truth.

And at least be upfront and respond to what I actually wrote, not some fervid imaginings you've generated.

[Blue_Tires]

200. Fine, we'll wait to hear the father's story

can't wait to read it

[rug]

203. In Pennsylvania there will be a preliminary hearing very shortly.

[Blue_Tires]

193. Update:

Man Is Charged in Death of His Daughter After Eviction Confrontation


A Pennsylvania man who the authorities say pointed a rifle at a state constable serving him eviction papers has been charged in the death of his 12-year-old daughter, who was accidentally shot when the officer fired his weapon in response.

According to a police account provided in an affidavit, the constable, Clark Steele, arrived at the apartment in Duncannon, a small borough outside Harrisburg, at 10 a.m. on Jan. 11 to enforce an order for Donald Meyer Jr., 57, and his family to leave. The police said Mr. Meyer opened and closed the door several times, insisting that they could stay until midnight. Constable Steele told him that was untrue.

Mr. Meyer then appeared in the doorway and raised a semiautomatic rifle, aiming it at Constable Steele’s chest, according to the affidavit. “In fear for his life,” the officer took his service weapon out of its holster and fired one round into Mr. Meyer’s left arm, it said.

The bullet traveled through Mr. Meyer’s arm and struck his daughter, Ciara Meyer, who had been standing behind her father during the exchange.

An ambulance was called, and emergency workers found the girl dead in the kitchen. The coroner said the bullet had penetrated her heart and a lung.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/30/us/man-is-charged-in-death-of-his-daughter-after-eviction-confrontation.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

[rug]

195. The only thing new is that charges were filed against the father.

The allegations remain based on what the constable said.

What is also not new is that the prosecutor again has taken the word of a law enforcement officer, who "feared for his life", leaving yet another dead child.

And a vacant apartment.

[jonno99]

168. Homicide simply means "killed by another human". It may be decided that

it was a case of "justifiable homicide".

Regardless, the whole situation sucks...

[jberryhill]

176. "Homicide" is a cause of death, it is not a crime

Whether a homicide is a form of criminal homicide is not what a coroner determines.

Homicide means "killed by a person". It might be negligent, some species of manslaughter, a murder, or one of many criminal or non-criminal homicides.

[REP]

21. Charges are:

Aggravated and simple assault, terroristic threats, and recklessly endangering another person. I agree felony murder should be included.

He used the type of gun that upsets so many anti-gun types; I'm surprised that I was the first to a) identify the gun and b) decry the gunnuttery that lead to this senseless death.

[rug]

101. From the lomk directly above"

Perry County District Attorney Andrew Bender has said the shooting is under investigation by his office and state police."

Whether any of the facts alleged to date by the Constable remains to be seen Grand Juries are no longer used in Pennsylvania There are now apparently inly two witnesses, the tenant and the Constable.

The girl can not testify.

Congratulations on identifying a rifle.

[liberalhistorian]

46. The constable shares the blame for

firing at someone knowing a child was right behind him. They're both guilty here.

[choie]

55. That's ridiculous

so what was the constable supposed to do? Allow the father to kill him? let's be reasonable now. I am ALWAYS more than skeptical about police involved shootings, but this was not the constable's fault.

[NutmegYankee]

62. Yes the constable shares blame.

It is the responsibility of the shooter to know his target and what lies beyond. He fucked up.

As for what to do, how about back away and call for backup.

[TeddyR]

81. That is a ridicuous statement

When you point a gun at a cop you are going to get shot at, and the cop is RIGHT to shoot at you. The constable has zero blame in this instance. I really wish people would stop trying to lay blame at the feet of the police in instances where none exists.

[NutmegYankee]

124. First of all, it's not a cop - it's a constable.

Second, it's called deescalation.

[grntuscarora]

131. and another +1.

[TeddyR]

153. So he should have allowed himself

To be shot? I can't believe the lengths some go to on this website to blame law enforcement when law enforcement did nothing wrong.

[840high]

162. Believe it. DU is full

of cop haters. Facts don't matter.

[grntuscarora]

121. +1

nt

[REP]

65. From the description of the shooting, the asshole with the .223 was behind a partially closed door

The 12 year old was probably not visible. The constable, who may not have been wearing body armor, was not obligated to take a military caliber round from the man pointing a fully loaded assault-style rifle at him.

[Lee-Lee]

74. No. When someone assaults you they are responsible for anyone getting hurt when you respond

That's just not common sense, it's the law- that's why the Felony Murder rule exists.

Dad created the situation, dad created the danger, dad is responsible.

The Constable defended himself legally and with the proper amount of force. The blame for the outcome is 100% on dad.

[Rex]

184. True, but LEO never has to answer for their murderous ways.

EVER. They are above any law and can kill without worry.

[ncjustice80]

53. He made a choice, but the constable shot and killed the girl.

It's their job to put their life behind others!

[REP]

66. He shot the man threatening him with a .223 assault-style rifle

The round went through the man's arm and into the child. The shot was not fired at the child.

[X_Digger]

165. Wait, what? A law enforcement officer is obligated to die for you?

I think you're taking a slogan on the side of the car as gospel.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

70. There is something I learned about DU a very long time ago,

If there was a serial killer who raped and murdered joggers at Runyon Canyon and then pissed on their corpses, there would be a DU topic about someone being sentenced to death for public urination.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

138. LOL

Jeeesus, got that right.

[Snobblevitch]

11. Class warfare?

[LiberalArkie]

12. Land owner vs dweller. The oldest class wars ever known.

[Snobblevitch]

15. The story did not indicate whether the

landlord was wealthy or not.

[REP]

23. The tenant drew on the contable first with a fully loaded assault-style .223 rifle

I'm not sure I'd be able to tell if it was an AR15 or an AK when one was whipped out and raised to my chest, but I'd sure as hell get out my gun and fire (if I were armed) if that happened to me, as happened to the constable.

This was not class warfare. This was an armed asshole drawing on a constable delivering an expected eviction notice.

[Snobblevitch]

25. I agree.

The father should be charged with felony murder. (Or what similar charge is used in that jurisdiction.)

[REP]

29. Whatever the evictee's plan was, it was terrible

Was he going to make his daughter witness a murder? Witness his suicide? In the end, he got her killed. Whatever punishment he gets, it won't be nearly enough.

[Yo_Mama]

48. Pointing a gun at a cop with your kid behind you is unthinkable.

This is tragic. Just beyond awful.

[wordpix]

37. And don't assume landowner is wealthy

I know landlords both rich and poor. One of my friends works for min. wage and has a house he rents out in a downtrodden rust belt town. He has to drive a half hr one way to get his rent bc the renters won't pay unless he shows up in person. They just "forget" rent is due.

[Snobblevitch]

40. My grandfather bought four lots that included a house in the 20s.

He borrowed the money from a man who had money. (I am sure it was under $1,000) My dad has fond memories of this guy coming every Saturday morning to get his $15 payment. The man gave candy to my dad and his brothers. I have know idea what kind of interest was charged.

About 40 years later, my grandfather sold his land to a developer for what would be about $475,000 if calculated for inflation.

[Fumesucker]

17. RIP Ciara

[Carolina]

27. This is a terribly sad story

Last edited Tue Jan 12, 2016, 10:29 PM - Edit history (1)

and many posters have rightly pointed out how the father's actions led to this tragedy. But they have also maligned the property owner; and I think painting property owners with a broad negative brush is wrong.

My cousin and I just recently had to have 'occupiers" removed from some family property. Long story short, one family member who was living in heirs' property had allowed his girlfriend to move in, but then he died. She in turn and in the meantime, moved in 4 other ne'er-do-well relatives of hers. They were destructive hoarders who paid nothing, so we -- the rightful owners -- had to go to court and get them removed. It was a nightmare and we feared violence the entire time. Now, we must repair the damage and much more. The property owners are necessarily villains!

[alphafemale]

28. I have to side with the LEO in this case.

This is entirely the fault of the father.

If you want to go down in a blaze of glory, on property you are essentially trespassing on, get your family safely removed beforehand.

Asshole.

I feel for that little girl. She deserved better than this.

[Chemisse]

30. That's so sad!

What an asshole father to start a gun battle with his little girl standing behind him.

[Takket]

31. Here's another article.............

Some additional details, but no mention of why the man was evicted. It said the apartment employees were on hand which probably means he wasn't paying rent, or he had lease violations.

http://abc27.com/2016/01/12/police-to-id-victims-of-shooting-near-duncannon/

[exboyfil]

56. $1.800 in back rent

Sounds like about 3 months behind on rent. It sounds like an apartment complex of some sort. Complaint filed Nov. 30th and delivered on Dec. 3rd.


http://heavy.com/news/2016/01/ciara-meyer-father-donald-don-meyer-daughter-constable-name-clark-steele-death-shot-killed-shooting-pennsylvania-photos-facebook-memorial-family-mother/

[rug]

102. Hardly compares to the death of a child to collect it.

[exboyfil]

107. No argument

but I would probably do the same when confronted by a rifle pointed at me (assuming that is what happened).

[Waldorf]

108. Her death wasn't the result of an eviction. Rather her father pointing a loaded weapon at somebody

who then defended themselves.

[rug]

109. The "self-defense" wouldn't have arisen if he was not there to evict them.

Do you really think this comes down to Stand Your Ground?

[Waldorf]

111. There would have been no "self'defense" if the father hadn't pointed a loaded firearm

at the constable.

[rug]

112. There would have been no eviction if the father had the means to pay rent.

I can only imagine the likes of Trump laughing at this conversation while evictions all across the country are taking place.

Ok. It's the girl's fault. She shouldn't have been standing behind her father while she was being evicted.

[Blue_Tires]

126. Maybe he could have sold his gun(s) instead?

Since he allegedly was acting like he was about to gat someone over $1800...

[rug]

127. He could have and should have. I doubt he'd have gotten $1800 for them, though.

[840high]

139. You lease a place - you pay rent. Period.

[rug]

148. If you don't work - you don't eat. Period.

Human rights trump property rights. Period.

None of us know the circumstances under which this man and his family could not pay the rent. I would hope there is enough reservoir of knowledge and humanity to recognize the problems of homelessness in this country.

No rent, no home is no answer at all. No rent, no daughter is way beyond that.

[840high]

151. Do you know he was unemployed? Selling his

rifle would have paid some of the past due rent. If someone points a rifle at me - I'll shoot.

[rug]

155. That's a very high probability.

Before you shoot (which is hardly an impressive statement), let me ask you a question. If you were a landlord, would you send an armed constable to throw a family out. Or is the bottom line, they owe you rent, end of story?

[840high]

158. This was the 2nd or 3rd visit by the constable..

Statement from the girl's family:

Despite the tragedy, Ron Rhode, who is related to Ciara by marriage, said today that the family feel sorry for Steele, adding: 'I cried for that constable.'

Rhode, who said he was speaking on behalf of the whole family, said: 'None of us in our family have any hard feelings toward him. Actually we feel sorry for him. He's got to live with this, the poor man, and he had no idea what he was walking into.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3398419/I-cried-man-Family-girl-12-shot-dead-constable-served-eviction-notice-father-say-not-blame-officer-death.html#ixzz3xBJhKqh7
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[rug]

161. That's because the court summons was first served, then the judgment, and then, the notice to leave.

The family is very decent.

This is what precipitated the death, per your source,.

Steele arrived at the home at around 10am on Monday to serve an eviction notice on the family because Donald Meyer had failed to pay $1,780.85 in rent.

But, being The Daily Mail, they can't help making this the takeawy,

'Did anyone let him know that he was going to be walking into a rat's hole?'

[840high]

163. The family said that - not DailyMail. I would

imagine the family knew the father better than you do.

"nite

[rug]

164. Ron Rhode, the relative by marriage, said that.

This is what the girl's aunt said:



Good night.

[Omaha Steve]

32. .

[valerief]

33. Why would ANYONE shoot someone over an eviction?

Fuck these ammosexual assholes.

[dumbcat]

38. Nobody got shot over the eviction

He got shot for pointing a loaded rifle at a LEO. The little girl was collateral damage, and the father's fault.

[ncjustice80]

54. Indeed.

Murder a little girl over an eviction. A new low in America.

[Marengo]

86. Any vitriol for the exploiter class?

Or is it always reserved for the guy with the gun.

[wordpix]

35. Families with children shouldn't be evicted

Not the children's fault if their parents are poor. Tax the richies with their tax havens and dancing horse tax deductions

[Octafish]

41. Thank you.

Wealthiest times in human history and children live -- and die -- in poverty.

[Travis_0004]

43. So I can rent a 500,000 house, then stop paying after one month?

And stay there for 18 years?

[rug]

103. Can they shoot your children to get you out?

[Eleanors38]

117. No. But "they" can shoot at a person threatening lethal force. nt

[rug]

120. Can they shoot the child standing behind that person?

[Eleanors38]

122. No one wants that, but that result may fall on the father...

He recklessly put his daughter in danger while commiting a felony. He may be subject to a charge of felony murder.

I doubt this father was thinking along lines of class warfare. His was a gross and reckless act, and he'll pay for it. And should.

[rug]

123. No one is more acutely aware of class warfare than when he or she is being fired or evicted.

[Eleanors38]

177. Criminals are criminals in any system of governance.

[rug]

178. Tenants are not criminals.

Neither are fired workers.

Systems of governance that allow companies to close and fire hundreds of workers are criminal.

[Eleanors38]

180. He threatened someone with a deadly weapon. That is criminal.

And given the result, doubly so.

[rug]

181. Has that been proven?

The only thing that has been established is the constable went there to evict his family and that he ended up killing his daughter.

What will you say if it is established that that he was simply holding the rifle and the constable shot him (and his daughter) without justification?

Would you then say he should have paid his rent and none of this would have happened?

[840high]

140. Sure - let's all do it.

[Ilsa]

61. No one would ever lease to a family again, or women

of childbearing years.

[REP]

67. Daddies with assault-style rifles should sell them and pay the damn rent.

An AR-15 costs more than his rent.

[Rex]

42. It is a shame guns were involved, she would be alive today if they didn't exist.

RIP Ciara. I wonder what raises an eviction notice to attempted homicide? That seems unusual imo. Most people just leave.

[book_worm]

50. 1) The constable should have backed off and called for help 2) The father should never have put his

daughter into harms way. There is enough blame to go around.

[REP]

68. The constable couldn't outrun a round fired from a .223 assault-style rifle inches from his chest

Had I been in that position, I would have shot as well.

[840high]

141. ...^ that

[Lancero]

147. You can't outrun a assault rifle when it's to your chest...

But you've got enough time to pull out you gun, aim it, and fire it?

Somethings fishy here... I mean, if this guy had his gun to the officers chest, why didn't he do anything when the cop reached for his gun?

Unless, of course, the officer already had his gun out and ready to fire right when he walked up.

[smirkymonkey]

128. *This*

Couldn't agree more.

[Glassunion]

51. Sell the gun and pay the fucking rent.

[ncjustice80]

52. Pig needs to get charged with murder!

Why does a constable even have a gun? And it's his damn job to eat a bullet if a child is in potential danger. Hope he rots in jail.

[ManiacJoe]

59. You seem really confused about the job of the police.

[Humanist_Activist]

72. This has to be one of the stupidest posts I've ever seen...

it is not his job to get shot to protect others, the person who aggressively threatened to shoot the constable is responsible for this incident.

[Ace Rothstein]

78. What kind of world do we live in where you can't point a gun at someone without getting shot back?

[Eleanors38]

118. He won't be. The father, on the other hand, may have felony murder in the offing.

[840high]

143. dumb post

[X_Digger]

167. Wt fuck did you get that idea? Unless you hire a bodyguard, nobody's paid to take a bullet for you.

A cop can step over you struggling with an attacker in the process of killing you to get to a donut shop, and there's fuck-all you can do legally about it.



WInnebago v DeShaney, Castle Rock v Gonzales..

Shit, where do people get these silly notions?

[DawgHouse]

57. Poor child. What a terrible tragedy.

[Eleanors38]

119. This is really bad.

[Catherine Vincent]

60. ...

[Loki]

63. They want us to have guns everywhere

but when we try to stand up against the police at any threat to our safety or to our families safety, we or our family members are shot and killed. I'm sorry, but my family is a victim of murder by police. I have no respect for them anymore. I fear their reactions to any situation more than I fear a criminal. If I ever try to stand my ground, or protect myself or my family from them, I will be killed. This has become an insanity that has no good endings. Now a beautiful 12 year old child is dead because of her father with a gun (that he had a right to own) and a police officer who went to evict a family from a home in the winter and should have just walked away from this situation, but let it escalate. Thugs with guns without empathy. Our very own Gestapo. Maybe someone will alert on this, but you know, I don't care. You have no idea what the pain is like when your family is a victim of police brutality and you know there is absolutely nothing that you can ever do to have justice, for the victim, for your family and for her children, nothing. It remains an open wound forever. Her name was Kate, she was 32 years old. Every time this happens, you live it over, and over again. May this family find some kind of peace. May that police officer never rest without remembering he murdered a 12 year old beautiful young girl, because he went to evict a family in the winter.

[ncjustice80]

64. They need to defund and disarm the police- NOW.

[TeddyR]

82. Really?

Really? You propose that we don't have a police force?

[ncjustice80]

187. No. I propose unarmed "bobbies" like Britain and Japan.

No armored vehicles. Firearms only issued to special teams, requiring authorization from the chief to deploy, with a Federal DOJ investigation when such a deployment occurs to insure it was justified, such as a Columbine style incident. (yes, I know it would require hiring more attorneys/investigators for DOJ. I'm ok with that to protect people's civil rights.)

[TeddyR]

191. Well

You didn't say "disband" so I probably misread your post. But I still disagree with disarming the police. The police (largely) aren't the problem.

[Waldorf]

110. i'm sure the criminals would love that to happen.

[Humanist_Activist]

73. I'm sorry, the father is responsible for his daughter's death, he's the one who decided to escalate.

the situation.

I will be the first person to jump in on police brutality and criminal actions, in fact, I wholeheartedly think that police should be ideally disarmed, but only along with the populace. I also think we need citizen oversight boards(with actual power) along with busting police unions and many other reforms. But, police have the right to defend themselves in a situation such as this.

[Loki]

75. Right, the father should have stood meekly by and let his family be evicted in the dead of winter.

People are suffering, out of jobs, behind in their rent, and I think that if this had been my father, he probably would have done something very similar. I think he was just trying to keep the cretin law enforcer away from his family. What kind of man evicts people from housing in the winter with a family? Police have a right to defend themselves, where are our rights????? Oh I forgot, we have none when it comes to them.

[WillowTree]

83. Better yet, as someone said upthread.......

Daddy Dearest could have sold his assault rifle and paid the rent for a couple more months and then eviction in the dead of winter wouldn't be an issue.

[Humanist_Activist]

91. Yes he should of, he was informed this was going to happen by at least the beginning of December...

so should have been able to prepare alternate arrangements, and as others have said, possibly sold the gun to pay rent until spring if necessary.

Having been evicted myself, it sucks, but its not worth killing people over.

[840high]

144. He pointed a rifle -

[Egnever]

156. What in the world?

So you can rent my house and just decide you don't have to pay rent for ...reasons?

That is fucking nonsense.

[avaistheone1]

71. Disgusting!

[Bad Dog]

76. If this is freedom, call me a freedom hater.

I'm so glad to live in a country where idiots can't get hold of assault rifles and the police aren't routinely armed. It could never happen over here.

[atreides1]

77. One question?

Why didn't the father fire?

He had the weapon pointed at the constable, with a round chambered, and yet the constable had enough time to draw his own weapon and fire!

[dumbcat]

79. It seems a lot of people here

would have been happier if he did.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

84. Maybe the father was trying to commit suicide

and instead caused his daughter's death.

Or maybe he forgot to switch the gun from "safe" to "fire".

Either way, the poor girl's death is her father's fault.

[rug]

105. That is a very pertinent factual question.

29 Pa.C.S. § 2501. Criminal homicide.

(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly or negligently causes the death of another human being.

(b) Classification.--Criminal homicide shall be classified as murder, voluntary manslaughter, or involuntary manslaughter.

Bold face added.

In Pennsylvania, Constables are local municipal elected officials, very many of whom are retired corrections officers, police or career military. Some get elected after earning their living as process servers. They are not trained police officers. He may have simply panicked upon seeing the rifle. Time will tell.

In the meantime, The County Coroner has ruled her death a homicide and the District Attorney has not yet charged anyone for the homicide.

[kiva]

89. So an innocent 12 year old

died because her father wouldn't sell his beloved gun to pay the rent.

[Bonx]

90. No. She died because her father pointed his gun at a Cop

while she was standing behind him.

[Lancero]

142. Either way...

Father had gun, father pointed gun at cop, daughter unintentionally dies when cop fires at her father who is currently pointing a gun at him.

If the father sold off the gun to pay rent, this wouldn't have happened. If the father didn't pull the gun on the cop, this wouldn't have happened.

Either way, the gun was the catalyst.

[romanic]

98. How tragic.

I know a lot of people here are playing the blame game, but really it shouldn't matter because a 12 child is dead.

[rug]

106. Tou're right. IAnd it should not happen again.

But it will.

[grntuscarora]

104. Alternate ending.

The constable says, "i seem to have come at a bad time. I'm sorry for your difficulties. Slowly retreats. Makes contact by phone, then returns with social service worker, and psychologist, and plans for this family's short term future.

Hey, I can dream.

RIP sweet girl.

[Dont call me Shirley]

114. Clara...

RIP beautiful girl.

Another victim of the classist vampires.

[840high]

145. Or a victim of an irresponsible father.

[Lancero]

146. Maybe not though?

I mean, remember the story the police first gave when some cops decided to murder Jeremy Mardis?

[Lancero]

150. To early to tell just what happened really...

All we really know is that the father was shot, and that the bullet passed through his arm and killed his daughter.

Everything else is still up in the air.

Some people want to know why the cop fired if the guys daughter was right behind him - However, we don't know if the officer could actually see her. She's a 12 year old girl, so she isn't likely to be tall enough to see over a full grown man if she was standing behind him. Given what arm was shot though, the persons left arm, it's also entirely possiable that his daughter was standing behind the door where the officer couldn't see her.

We don't have specifics on this, but these are two entirely plausible situations that just why the constable wouldn't have known that someone was standing behind the person he shot at.

The police are saying that the constable went for his gun and shot at the person because he had a gun pointed right to his chest - Which, really, sounds odd. He had a pointed right to his chest, yet the guy holding it DIDN'T respond to the constable going for his own gun? Smells a bit fishy.

We aren't going to know what happened until body cam footage comes out. Assuming the guy had a gun pointing at the constable, then I can't really blame him for shooting the guy. But it's a hard sell to convince me that the officer was quick enough to pull and fire his gun with someone pointing a rifle right at him. Realistically, if someone is pointing a rifle to your chest, they ARE going to put rounds in you if you reach for your own gun.

The first story police gave about Jeremy Mardis was similar as well though - The father tried killing a cop with their child right by them, and the cop - not knowing that a child was involved - returned fire and accidentally killed the child - but that story was later shown to be a crock of shit.

Still though, if the polices story about what happened is true then I can't really fault them... But at the same time, their are plenty of examples of police lying through their teeth in a attempt to cover their ass.

[rug]

152. You're right. It all remains to be seen.

But there is no doubt in my mind that what happened to all three of these people is the result of a confluence of currents that elevate property rights to the extent that a constable serving eviction papers feels the need to bring a gun with him to tell people the landlord and the court say he and his daughter must leave their home and is empowered, if not encouraged, to use that gun in an instant.

[TeddyR]

166. He used the gun

When the father pointed a rifle at him. You understand that, right?

[Humanist_Activist]

182. Uhm, he used that gun because a gun was pointed at him...

I mean, if it was a bad shoot and the guy wasn't pointing his gun and the constable shot him anyways, you would have a point, and who knows that could have happened.

However, in this country where anyone can be armed, the police and constables have to be armed as well, its nuts, its crazy, but it isn't a case of elevating property rights above human rights.

If you want examples of that, look at the expansion of castle doctrine, stand your ground, and other such laws.

For example, in Missouri(where I live), it is perfectly legal for you to shoot and kill a person trying to steal your car out of your driveway, even if you are secure in your house, and not in danger. That's fucked up.

[rug]

183. Uhm, you don't know that.

The law of justification is very specific. Holding a rifle doesn't trigger it. The only one saying that is the constable. The girls dead so she can't give a statement.

I am stunned by how may people see this as a gun issue while ignoring the stark fact that a girl was killed during an eviction.

[Humanist_Activist]

186. Evictions happen, the people who serve the court orders are armed...

it could be argued that this incident is precisely the reason why they are armed. Want to prevent tragedies like this? Then the tenant shouldn't have been armed and the situation would have been avoided. Also, I would say holding a rifle and brandishing it is justification to shoot in self defense, the fact is that the tenant decided to brandish a firearm, everything that follows from that is his fault. The situation leading up to the incident(the eviction) is incidental.

I'm sorry, I've faced an eviction before, because of an accident in the apartment that was my roommate's fault. And while we cursed and thought the landlord was being unreasonable(not to mention cussing the fuck out of my roommate), we did not decide to go to the local gun store and have a standoff with the sheriff's deputies Ruby Ridge style. Instead we used the time allotted us to make other arrangements for housing and left before the deadline.

[justamama83]

189. The girl's family has spoken up

They do not blame the constable.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/autopsy-set-pennsylvania-girl-12-shot-eviction-36264655

[ncjustice80]

188. A set up like Vonderrit Meyers I bet.

[HassleCat]

154. I always wondered about this

Why do the police enforce evictions on behalf of landlords? Don't we live in a free enterprise system? Shouldn't landlords hire Pinkertons to gun down tenants?

[rug]

160. That worked very well for Frick and Carnegie.

Bad PR though. Unintended consequences were international industrial unions.

Evictions were a direct tool used to break strikes.

When the miners went on strike in September of 1913, Colorado Fuel and Iron promptly evicted the strikers from their homes. The fledgling union, however, had planned in advance, erecting a small tent colony in Ludlow to house the strikers.

http://www.ultimatehistoryproject.com/the-mining-strike-at-ludlow.html

It is still used to keep poor and working people off balance. People will swallow an awful lot at work so as to not get fired, then lose an apartment, then lose you child to the county as the spiral accelerates. The prospect of losing a job and then a home is a daily thought. I daresay, the Second Amendment isn't.

[Lee-Lee]

173. The police enforce court orders- such as eviction notices

That's how it all works.

You could create a system where it's all done privately and keep the courts and police out of it- the result would be higher rents to cover the cost and a whole lot less due process and respect for the renter.

[Ace Rothstein]

175. Because not paying your rent is theft.

And the police enforce things like that.

[NCTraveler]

179. I have served many evections with the Sherriffs Dept.

Nothing about any of them have been class warfare. Not one. They can be scary as shit, though yelling matches are the worst I have seen.

[PowerToThePeople]

190. I can believe this

NCTraveler (12,300 posts)
179. I have served many evections with the Sherriffs Dept.

Evicting for non-payment of rent IS class warfare.

[PowerToThePeople]

192. And yet, no evictions from the Oregon National Park?

[valerief]

201. Thanks Jeebus the tenant had his gawd-given firearm to purtect his family.

No one important got dead. Gawd bless the NRA.

[rug]

202. Gopd has nothing to do with this. It's about poverty and property.

And a girl killed while the owner was recovering the property.