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WillParkinson

(16,862 posts)
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 09:30 PM Jun 2012

"Against God's Will": Gay Man Sues NJ Hospital For Being Denied HIV Meds

"Against God's Will": Gay Man Sues NJ Hospital For Being Denied HIV Meds

New Jersey gay man Joao Simoes is suing his hospital after an on-staff doctor refused him his HIV medications. Dr. Susan Borga* allegedly later told his private physician what the patient had done to become infected was "against God's will."

When the hospital finally permitted Simoes to call his personal physician on the third day of his stay, he learned that the doctor had already spoken with Borga about Simoes' medication, according to the complaint. Borga allegedly responded: "You must be gay, too, if you're his doctor." "Additionally, apparently realizing that plaintiff's doctor had an accent, Dr. Borga exclaimed, 'What, do you need a translator?' to which plaintiff's doctor had again responded that Dr. Borga needed to give plaintiff his HIV medication," the complaint states. "Dr. Borga responded to plaintiff's doctor by stating, 'This is what he gets for going against God's will,' and hung up the phone on plaintiff's doctor."

The hospital also initially refused to allow the patient's sister to visit him. She was finally permitted to bring him his medications after he'd missed five doses. Missing doses of HIV medication can cause the patient to become resistant to the drugs.

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/06/against-gods-will-gay-man-sues-nj.html

120 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"Against God's Will": Gay Man Sues NJ Hospital For Being Denied HIV Meds (Original Post) WillParkinson Jun 2012 OP
People who don't want to give out medicine shouldn't be doctors. Puregonzo1188 Jun 2012 #1
One possible reason bongbong Jun 2012 #7
Excellent question. Initech Jun 2012 #21
Becasue Dr. Josef Mengele dinopipie Jun 2012 #51
It has become sadly obvious to me that the so-called Occulus Jun 2012 #71
Or pharmacists, either XanaDUer Jun 2012 #61
+1000... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2012 #68
The fundies should be barred from practicing medicine and also from RKP5637 Jun 2012 #2
Right. Constitution prohibits religious tests for holding public office, but --> daaron Jun 2012 #27
They aren't even following the Hippocratic Oath. They should have their licenses RKP5637 Jun 2012 #33
Maybe a lawsuit against the states in which they're licensed? daaron Jun 2012 #56
Need to have their license to practice at any hospital yanked. And the hospital needs to be sued... freshwest Jun 2012 #46
The doctor graduated from a Catholic college and works in a Catholic hospital RainDog Jun 2012 #80
Someone later on in the thread said they suspected it's a severely homophobic RKP5637 Jun 2012 #85
Probably an Opus Dei scumfuck - a Catholic fundie. n/t backscatter712 Jun 2012 #101
I had this conversation recently. LiberalAndProud Jun 2012 #111
Fundamentalism in the U.S. refers to a cultural movement RainDog Jun 2012 #113
You are mistaken cprise Jun 2012 #114
the origin of the term stems from that era RainDog Jun 2012 #117
"Missing doses of HIV medication can cause the patient to become resistant to the drugs" Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #3
Be sure other christian doctors and healthcare workers Occulus Jun 2012 #14
Where does it state that emilyg Jun 2012 #26
Oh come on. Don't be so credulous. Whad'ya think? This is the U.S.A. nt daaron Jun 2012 #28
The hospital is apparently affiliated with the catholic church. Occulus Jun 2012 #88
You could paint the side of a barn with that brush. Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #31
One of the things that pacifies me when I get in that mood is to RKP5637 Jun 2012 #39
The lead host of our HIV group here on DU is MCC. Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #42
You could paint the side of a barn with that brush. AlbertCat Jun 2012 #64
At this stage I'm fed up with the whole Christian religion. I'm fed up with hearing this shit! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2012 #34
Do you really think this is a religious thing? lunatica Jun 2012 #55
Yep, I agree, homophobia is the root cause. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2012 #65
I know that bigots hide behind religion cprise Jun 2012 #116
In that case you must believe all religious people are bigots then lunatica Jun 2012 #118
Enjoy that logical fallacy cprise Jun 2012 #119
Some people are bigoted against religion too lunatica Jun 2012 #120
She could be a muslim. Quantess Jun 2012 #52
WTF...a real hospital!? w8liftinglady Jun 2012 #4
And you can be absolutely certain this isn't the end of it Occulus Jun 2012 #9
As long as they're 'martyred' (in the figurative sense they love)... sounds good. nt daaron Jun 2012 #29
Your hatred for Christians emilyg Jun 2012 #37
What does being trained in teh Phillipines have to do with it? obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #54
Her terrible behavior might emilyg Jun 2012 #76
Her name is Susan Borga, not Borgia. thecrow Jun 2012 #95
Spent the first eighteen years of my life in the church Rittermeister Jun 2012 #78
So? I'm not emilyg Jun 2012 #81
I am in fear of my safety and that of those I care for Occulus Jun 2012 #82
Keep your hate. I'm not emilyg Jun 2012 #83
Your religion will NEVER leave me and those like me in peace. Occulus Jun 2012 #89
What you do or emilyg Jun 2012 #90
You fail to see the problem. Occulus Jun 2012 #91
Of the roughly one billion humans who call themselves Christians, approximately crayfish Jun 2012 #105
My faith is strong. emilyg Jun 2012 #110
Oh, that doctor would have been written up in such a way Warpy Jun 2012 #12
Trinitas Regional Medical Center are Medicare scammers too jberryhill Jun 2012 #22
I think it's time to start yanking the licenses of doctors and RKP5637 Jun 2012 #36
Oh, their hospital privileges will start to be revoked Warpy Jun 2012 #45
Exactly my question. What the hell were the nurses doing? I would raise hell. Butterbean Jun 2012 #60
Aww, she'll be ok... richmwill Jun 2012 #5
And now it has finally happened. Occulus Jun 2012 #6
How do u know emilyg Jun 2012 #35
How do u know she's Christian? AlbertCat Jun 2012 #66
Agree 100%. emilyg Jun 2012 #77
it doesn't take a weatherman to know which way the wind blows frylock Jun 2012 #79
Well, isn't this interesting too... richmwill Jun 2012 #8
Why is a psychiatrist prescribing or withholding HIV medicine? rug Jun 2012 #18
Because the patient in question was in the psych ward... backscatter712 Jun 2012 #102
That makes sense. I wonder why she's not named as a defendant. rug Jun 2012 #103
That doctor needs her license revoked. Marrah_G Jun 2012 #10
First they start denying women the morning after pill for religious belief NOW HIV medication lookingfortruth Jun 2012 #11
Next up, denying women Tamoxifen or Arimidex because they mistakenly believe Lars39 Jun 2012 #15
Don't...give...them...ideas... Ken Burch Jun 2012 #24
Nah, I'm guessing psychopharmaceuticals MountainLaurel Jun 2012 #70
that is beyond fucked up Kali Jun 2012 #13
okay, wait a minute FirstLight Jun 2012 #16
I have no words. Du rec. Nt xchrom Jun 2012 #17
someones going to lose her medical license. nt Javaman Jun 2012 #19
And I hope she and the hospital get sued out of business. nt bupkus Jun 2012 #20
What is this? Torquemada Memorial Hospital? Ken Burch Jun 2012 #23
How did this witch even become a doctor? HooptieWagon Jun 2012 #25
They're infiltrating. On purpose. For real. nt daaron Jun 2012 #30
the on-staff doctor should go to prison. frogmarch Jun 2012 #32
Isn't withholding treatment or aid to the sick against their God's will too? n/t jtuck004 Jun 2012 #38
Religion strikes again! AJTheMan Jun 2012 #40
The Onion? complain jane Jun 2012 #41
What an evil POS. Solly Mack Jun 2012 #43
God made the medicine and put it in the hospital. Satan denied it to Joao Simoes WriteWrong Jun 2012 #44
no, a pharmaceutical company made the medicine... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2012 #108
Dr. Susan V. Borja. Note her name. Publicize it. Shun her. kestrel91316 Jun 2012 #47
Why study medicine if god's will is so critical? RedCappedBandit Jun 2012 #48
I think the actions may be associated with religion but ... intaglio Jun 2012 #49
this is the only other source I could find for this story cali Jun 2012 #50
Yank her license SemperEadem Jun 2012 #53
Wtf? PotatoChip Jun 2012 #57
This is the hideous end to where all the conscience clause legislation leads. salin Jun 2012 #58
she should be banned from the medical field for life. spanone Jun 2012 #59
Holy shit. BlueIris Jun 2012 #62
psychopath fascisthunter Jun 2012 #63
How does a god-fearing person presume to know god's will? ArcticFox Jun 2012 #67
She should be barred from working in the health care profession altogether. Zorra Jun 2012 #69
Clear cut malpractice, and a quick journey to license revocation I hope, on point Jun 2012 #72
Sounds to me like the doctor's attempting to kill the patient. (nt) Posteritatis Jun 2012 #73
Are the doctors doing rounds at hospitals normally psychaitrists, or is that uncommon? hughee99 Jun 2012 #74
turn it into a parking lot dembotoz Jun 2012 #75
The doctor should go to jail. Simple as that. nt Lucky Luciano Jun 2012 #84
The doctor isn't named as a defendant in the lawsuit tammywammy Jun 2012 #86
The fundies should be prevented from becoming doctors....... Swede Atlanta Jun 2012 #87
what ever this MD's religion is it really doesn't matter what does matter is azurnoir Jun 2012 #92
Yank the Dr.s license Katashi_itto Jun 2012 #93
This is the most horrifying thing I've read all day. n/t fruitsmoothie45 Jun 2012 #94
There needs to be a legal obligation to not only dmr Jun 2012 #96
K&R DeSwiss Jun 2012 #97
Your papers, please. blkmusclmachine Jun 2012 #98
Dr. Borja should lose her license. McCamy Taylor Jun 2012 #99
This is absolutely insane Trunk Monkey Jun 2012 #100
Here's what I don't get: How can anything fail to comply with the "will" of an omnipotent, crayfish Jun 2012 #104
Watch out you're trying to use "reason" intaglio Jun 2012 #112
Any of the experts here been hospitalized with an infectious disease? Leontius Jun 2012 #106
Yet it's the "pro life" extremists The Wizard Jun 2012 #107
This is the danger of "religious liberty".... Swede Atlanta Jun 2012 #109
A word of caution--the allegations have not been geek tragedy Jun 2012 #115

Puregonzo1188

(1,948 posts)
1. People who don't want to give out medicine shouldn't be doctors.
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 09:35 PM
Jun 2012

Why the fuck do fundies even want to go on to become doctors?

 

bongbong

(5,436 posts)
7. One possible reason
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 09:54 PM
Jun 2012

> Why the fuck do fundies even want to go on to become doctors?


So they can kill people they hate, errr, god tells them to kill?

Initech

(100,081 posts)
21. Excellent question.
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:50 PM
Jun 2012

If I were the applicant interviewer for medical school - the question of denying patients based on religious beliefs would be first on my list - you could weed out a lot of these heartless douchebags that way.

 

dinopipie

(84 posts)
51. Becasue Dr. Josef Mengele
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 06:56 AM
Jun 2012

is their role mode and they want to emulate him.

GD Fundies are destroying this country.

If so called 'good' Christians exist when will they get control of the so called 'bad' Christians?

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
71. It has become sadly obvious to me that the so-called
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 11:52 AM
Jun 2012

"good christians" are a vanishingly small and powerless minority. They are such a small number that they do not now and will not ever get control of their fundamentalists.

And, I don't think they want to. Every act of homophobia I have ever seen, read about, witnessed,.or experienced for myself- every single one, without any exception at all- has had its roots in that faith.

I am done tolerating a religion that so obviously holds such deadly hatred toward me and those like me. This religion has proven itself to be a direct threat to my life, my safety, and the lives and safety of those I love and care about.

I don't have to tolerate that. And i won't. Never again.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
2. The fundies should be barred from practicing medicine and also from
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 09:44 PM
Jun 2012

being pharmacists. They are dangerous to the living.

 

daaron

(763 posts)
27. Right. Constitution prohibits religious tests for holding public office, but -->
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:08 PM
Jun 2012

it don't say a damn thing about prohibiting religious tests for getting a license to practice medicine.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
33. They aren't even following the Hippocratic Oath. They should have their licenses
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:27 PM
Jun 2012

to practice revoked. In fact, I would think some lawsuits could be filed to do just that in some of these cases.

 

daaron

(763 posts)
56. Maybe a lawsuit against the states in which they're licensed?
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:39 AM
Jun 2012

Or a federal law mandating doctors adhere to the Hip. Oath over all other oaths, with repercussions if they fail to comply?

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
46. Need to have their license to practice at any hospital yanked. And the hospital needs to be sued...
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 01:23 AM
Jun 2012

Until it begs for mercy and changes all of its discriminatory policies. Civil rights charges should be filed by the feds, since the hospital gets Medicare and Medicaid monies.

A call should be made to the state licensing board, hospital owners and all the insurers and the Feds. A huge stink needs to be made about this, it needs to go viral!

This ____ doesn't know how AIDS can be transmitted, either. She has no business treating anyone!!


RainDog

(28,784 posts)
80. The doctor graduated from a Catholic college and works in a Catholic hospital
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 01:10 PM
Jun 2012

so in this case - it doesn't appear to be a fundie who is playing god.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
85. Someone later on in the thread said they suspected it's a severely homophobic
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 02:13 PM
Jun 2012

individual, and religion might not even be involved. Of course, that doesn't excuse the staff and hospital. It sounded like collective homophobia to me.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
111. I had this conversation recently.
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 11:20 PM
Jun 2012

I took your view that the Catholic church is not fundamentalist. The opposing view was that, in fact, the current Pope does quite fit the criteria. I lost that debate.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
113. Fundamentalism in the U.S. refers to a cultural movement
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 02:28 AM
Jun 2012

that began in the 1920s that stressed the "fundamentals" of the bible for protestants.

Fundamentalism held that evolution was not true, that the bible is a literal "historical" document of events and that segregation, btw, was also part of god's plan - the KKK was heavily aligned with fundamentalist religious groups and politicians at the time.

The Scopes trial figured into the fundamentalist movement - its primary motivation was a reactionary response to science.

Catholicism doesn't deny evolution. No doubt the Catholic church has also had its moments, with Galileo and now, with women.

But fundamentalist protestants and conservative Catholics have found common ground in aspects of the culture wars - such as oppression of women and the GBLT population in the U.S.

Fundamentalist Protestants, traditionally, have hated the Catholic church and claimed it was the "whore of Babylon" mentioned in the book of Revelations because of the "pagan" worship of saints, and because Catholic doctrine claims the Pope is inerrant and b/c, all the way back to Martin Luther, Protestants claimed the right to interpret the bible according to individual conscience, rather than decree - tho the fundie prots also make certain claims that their congregants are supposed to adhere to in order to be a member in good standing.

So, whether the current Pope has agreements with fundie prot povs isn't the point - they have major doctrinal differences and fundies would never claim the pope as their spokesperson.

cprise

(8,445 posts)
114. You are mistaken
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 07:52 AM
Jun 2012

"Fundamentalism" is a broad term with no connection to a specific religion. But it can apply to any of them.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
117. the origin of the term stems from that era
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 08:19 AM
Jun 2012

it has since been used to apply to various religious issues and non-religious issues as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fundamentals

The Fundamentals or The Fundamentals: A Testimony To The Truth edited by A. C. Dixon and later by Reuben Archer Torrey is a set of 90 essays in 12 volumes published from 1910 to 1915 by the Bible Institute of Los Angeles. They were designed to affirm orthodox Protestant beliefs, especially those of the Reformed tradition, and defend against ideas deemed inimical to them. They are widely considered to be the foundation of modern Christian fundamentalism.

The volumes defended orthodox Protestant beliefs and attacked higher criticism, liberal theology, Catholicism (also called by them Romanism), socialism, modern philosophy, atheism, Christian Science, Mormonism, Millennial Dawn (an early term for a particular Christian Bible Student movement which mostly later became the "Jehovah's Witnesses" denomination), Spiritualism, and evolutionism (an article by geologist George Frederick Wright).


(evolutionism: The Institute for Creation Research, in order to treat evolution as a category of religions, including atheism, fascism, humanism and occultism, commonly uses the words evolutionism and evolutionist to describe the consensus of mainstream science and the scientists subscribing to it, thus implying through language that the issue is a matter of religious belief.[10] The basis of this argument is to establish that the creation-evolution controversy is essentially one of interpretation of evidence, without any overwhelming proof (beyond current scientific theories) on either side. Creationists tend to use the term evolutionism in an attempt to suggest that the theory of evolution and creationism are equal in a philosophical debate.)

now, however, the term is more broadly - but it came out of this 20th c. movement.

Fundamentalism is the demand for a strict adherence to specific theological doctrines usually understood as a reaction against Modernist theology, combined with a vigorous attack on outside threats to their religious culture. The term "fundamentalism" was originally coined by its supporters to describe a specific package of theological beliefs that developed into a movement within the Protestant community of the United States in the early part of the 20th century, and that had its roots in the Fundamentalist–Modernist Controversy of that time. The term usually has a religious connotation indicating unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism

but some people debate the use of this term in such a broad fashion. it was not used to describe Islam to the west, however, until the Iranian hostage crisis - it's not a term that comes from the Islamic world, afaik.

The term Islamic fundamentalism is often criticized. Bernard Lewis, a leading historian of Islam, had this to say against it:

The use of this term is established and must be accepted, but it remains unfortunate and can be misleading. "Fundamentalist" is a Christian term. It seems to have come into use in the early years of this century, and denotes certain Protestant churches and organizations, more particularly those that maintain the literal divine origin and inerrancy of the Bible. In this they oppose the liberal and modernist theologians, who tend to a more critical, historical view of Scripture. Among Muslim theologians there is as yet no such liberal or modernist approach to the Qur'an, and all Muslims, in their attitude to the text of the Qur'an, are in principle at least fundamentalists. Where the so-called Muslim fundamentalists differ from other Muslims and indeed from Christian fundamentalists is in their scholasticism and their legalism. They base themselves not only on the Qur'an, but also on the Traditions of the Prophet, and on the corpus of transmitted theological and legal learning


The term has been applied to Hindus since the development of a militant group in response to their clashes with Muslims and the term has been applied to atheists since 2007 when Dawkins began to speak out against creationism as an atheist.

The Associated Press' AP Stylebook recommends that the term fundamentalist not be used for any group that does not apply the term to itself. A great many scholars have adopted a similar position.


Since it has become a pejorative, some Fundamentalist Christians who were actually the first to begin to identify themselves in this way now want to distance themselves from the label and call others "fundamentalist."

But the ACCURATE meaning of the term in religion, esp. in Christianity, is for a Protestant Biblical literalist. Nevertheless, we have accepted the media term "Islamic Fundamentalist" in most discussions. I have never heard the term applied to the Catholic church in any media context, but maybe I missed it.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
3. "Missing doses of HIV medication can cause the patient to become resistant to the drugs"
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 09:51 PM
Jun 2012

Well isn't that lovely. Miss doses and become resistant to it? Wow.

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
14. Be sure other christian doctors and healthcare workers
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:06 PM
Jun 2012

will hear this and rub their hands together with glee.

I am being completely serious when I say that tjis shit scares the living hell out of me. Clearly, this faith is a direct threat to the lives of people I know personally at this point... People I care about.

My tolerance has come to an end. If that makes me an anti-christian bigot, frankly, I've been called a whole lot worse by much better people. I'll live with it.

Happily.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
31. You could paint the side of a barn with that brush.
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:13 PM
Jun 2012

Speaking as a Christian, you do a disservice with your hate. Some of us are on the front lines educating our community/family about the realities of HIV/AIDs. For every one step forward we take, bigotry takes us back two.

Work with us - don't throw us under the bus. Or if you must, then just rant on the internet and stay the hell out of our way.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
39. One of the things that pacifies me when I get in that mood is to
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 12:02 AM
Jun 2012

look at the number of GLBT supportive churches. I'm always amazed at how many there are ...

http://www.gaychurch.org/Find_a_Church/find_a_church.htm

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
64. You could paint the side of a barn with that brush.
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 09:58 AM
Jun 2012

Personally, I don't want a physician, or any kind of science-oriented important professional who believes in Stone Age mythology and spooks in the sky, thank you very much. The god delusion needs to just go.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
34. At this stage I'm fed up with the whole Christian religion. I'm fed up with hearing this shit! n/t
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:28 PM
Jun 2012

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
55. Do you really think this is a religious thing?
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:20 AM
Jun 2012

Wouldn't you agree that this doctor is just a homophobe mostly? The doctor may be saying it's against God's will just as an excuse to try to rid the world of another gay person rather than admit it's just pure hatred and fear and rage. The hospital should fire the doctor unless it also is in the business of ridding the world of teh gay.

cprise

(8,445 posts)
116. I know that bigots hide behind religion
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 08:00 AM
Jun 2012

That still makes it a problem with religion itself in my book.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
118. In that case you must believe all religious people are bigots then
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 08:58 AM
Jun 2012

Which is not the case. Bigotry, homophobia and racism are everywhere and not just in religions. It's just that some use religion as an excuse because they can hide their hatred and fear behind quotes in the bible or whatever holy book they follow. They use 'God's will' as their excuse.

cprise

(8,445 posts)
119. Enjoy that logical fallacy
Wed Jun 6, 2012, 05:13 AM
Jun 2012

I hope it was refreshing.

The rest of your reply did point out that religion offers something uniquely useful to bigots. When other institutions try to purvey falsehood and hatred, they at least lack the conceits of omnipotence, omniscience and eternal perpetuity associated with 'Gods will'.

w8liftinglady

(23,278 posts)
4. WTF...a real hospital!?
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 09:52 PM
Jun 2012

I certainly hope the state medical board has been alerted.

I will say any nurse worth her salt would have been on the phone to administration in a heartbeat.

I would have given the "doctor" quite a stern look.

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
9. And you can be absolutely certain this isn't the end of it
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 09:57 PM
Jun 2012

Even if this doctor is disciplined, other christian doctors are sure to hear about the drug resistance and are sure to become "martyrs" for their "cause".

Wait for it. It'll happen.

 

emilyg

(22,742 posts)
37. Your hatred for Christians
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:36 PM
Jun 2012

disgusts me. This doctor trained in the Phillipines - Your mouth is loud and not factual.

obamanut2012

(26,080 posts)
54. What does being trained in teh Phillipines have to do with it?
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:09 AM
Jun 2012

I do not agree with broad-brushing Christians, at all, I'm just confused.

Also, many Filipinos are Ctaholic, and Borgia is an Italian surname.

thecrow

(5,519 posts)
95. Her name is Susan Borga, not Borgia.
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 05:59 PM
Jun 2012

And I think that rather than yell at her on DU, she should receive a lot of letters from us in the near future.
I just think it is incredibly arrogant for ANYONE to think that they know the mind of the Almighty.

Rittermeister

(170 posts)
78. Spent the first eighteen years of my life in the church
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 01:02 PM
Jun 2012

I don't hate all Christians, but you can be damn sure I have absolutely no respect for your faith. 3,000-year-old patriarchal, authoritarian nonsense written by a second-rate nation of goat herders and fishermen.

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
82. I am in fear of my safety and that of those I care for
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 01:37 PM
Jun 2012

where christians are concerned.

I can bear your disgust with enormous fortitude. To me, it is a physically dangerous religion.

My "hate", as you call it, is fully justified.

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
89. Your religion will NEVER leave me and those like me in peace.
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 03:54 PM
Jun 2012

It is simply not in its nature.

Therefore, I will continue the fight against it. Fighting for rights that offend your religion, and offending your own religious sensibilities will, I assure you, give me the greatest pleasure.

Bank on it.

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
91. You fail to see the problem.
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 04:26 PM
Jun 2012

Your religion will, whether I like it or not, whether I do nothing or not, continue to have a negative impact on MY life.. and I am not and will not ever be a christian.

That's what makes your religion a black and poisonous evil to me. That you fail to recognize that is, well... very, very "christian" of you.

 

crayfish

(55 posts)
105. Of the roughly one billion humans who call themselves Christians, approximately
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:21 PM
Jun 2012

three hundred really are. And they would be good people even without the delusion of religion.
http://www.godisimaginary.com

Warpy

(111,277 posts)
12. Oh, that doctor would have been written up in such a way
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:00 PM
Jun 2012

that my report would singe the eyebrows off the entire house staff. I would have sent a copy to the state medical licensing board, also.

Borga is a huge lawsuit waiting to happen, a religious fanatic who fails to understand the various ways HIV is transmitted and who feels entitled to take her god's place as judge over her patients.

The poor patient will likely sue both her and the facility if the worst happens, although missing five doses might not be enough to trigger resistance.

These pious assholes need to open store front churches. They should never be allowed anywhere near the ill and vulnerable.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
22. Trinitas Regional Medical Center are Medicare scammers too
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:51 PM
Jun 2012

And, oh yes, they are Catholics:

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2009/November/09-civ-1247.html

WASHINGTON – The United States has entered into a settlement with a New Jersey hospital and filed a motion to intervene in a lawsuit against a New York hospital involving allegations that the hospitals defrauded Medicare, the Justice Department announced today.

The United States settled for $3.02 million, plus interest, with Trinitas Regional Medical Center in Elizabeth, N.J.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
36. I think it's time to start yanking the licenses of doctors and
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:33 PM
Jun 2012

pharmacists who choose not to follow the Hippocratic Oath. They are endangering the lives of patients, noting short of rogue murderers IMO. Their god is not my god. They are nothing short of the incantation of evilness from the depths of hell!


Warpy

(111,277 posts)
45. Oh, their hospital privileges will start to be revoked
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 12:24 AM
Jun 2012

every place but those religious hospitals that seek to erase women from the navel to the knees.

Playing god the judge is opening the doctor and the hospital to massive lawsuits because that sort of thing injures and kills patients.

richmwill

(1,326 posts)
5. Aww, she'll be ok...
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 09:53 PM
Jun 2012

I'm sure her Pastor and fellow church members, along with her fellow freepers, will let her know that they support her 100% in this. (gag)

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
6. And now it has finally happened.
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 09:53 PM
Jun 2012

They've gone from "merely" talking about killing us off- openly, in public- to actually trying.

I have a question for every single christian here at DU:

Why in the blue fuck should any of us GLBTs trust your religion or its followers after hearing this?

Christianity. Kills.

Literally!! Right there, in the darned OP!!

:absolutelyfuckingfuriouswithyourfaith:

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
66. How do u know she's Christian?
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 10:06 AM
Jun 2012

Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish,....

They all are caught up in a bunch of Stone Age mythology and hooey that needs to stay away from their professional life if they chose a profession in a scientific field... like medicine. They can dress up and play with their ancient theatre and rituals at home, but in the big adult world, keep it in check.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
18. Why is a psychiatrist prescribing or withholding HIV medicine?
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:33 PM
Jun 2012

And why is she not named as a defendant?

Something is fishy here.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
102. Because the patient in question was in the psych ward...
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:14 PM
Jun 2012

which makes the ward's shrink the rough equivalent of the PCP for the patients - in order to get access to specialists, such as the correct specialist for treating HIV, the patients have to go through the psychiatrist. And puts the psychiatrist in the position of gatekeeper.

 

lookingfortruth

(263 posts)
11. First they start denying women the morning after pill for religious belief NOW HIV medication
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 09:58 PM
Jun 2012

This is getting out of hand.

Lars39

(26,109 posts)
15. Next up, denying women Tamoxifen or Arimidex because they mistakenly believe
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:22 PM
Jun 2012

that the women got cancer because they had abortions.

MountainLaurel

(10,271 posts)
70. Nah, I'm guessing psychopharmaceuticals
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 11:26 AM
Jun 2012

Because a lot of the fundies (and the Scientologists) teach that mental illness don't really exist, that it's just Man's selfish nature manifesting itself. If you pray hard enough, apparently it'll go away.

Kali

(55,014 posts)
13. that is beyond fucked up
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:00 PM
Jun 2012

doctor needs to be fired and license removed first, sued for a very large sum of money second

could something like that be a criminal offense? could this asshole be sent to prison? talk about sinning ugh

FirstLight

(13,360 posts)
16. okay, wait a minute
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:25 PM
Jun 2012

what about the Hippocratic oath? (Bold and Italics mine)

...
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

I guess it is just a 'quaint' idea that universities have doctors take at the end of their schooling... and it is not required...
not legally binding, but I thought it was still relevant

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
23. What is this? Torquemada Memorial Hospital?
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:55 PM
Jun 2012

Does Dr. Borga(does she have a sister named Lucrezia, by any chance)still have a job after that?

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
25. How did this witch even become a doctor?
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:05 PM
Jun 2012

Doesnt becoming a doctor involve science, math, facts, and other stuff wingnuts are allergic to?

frogmarch

(12,154 posts)
32. the on-staff doctor should go to prison.
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:15 PM
Jun 2012

That's how I feel about it, anyway. His losing his job at the hospital, or even losing his medical license, wouldn't be enough.

AJTheMan

(288 posts)
40. Religion strikes again!
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 12:10 AM
Jun 2012

That is sickening. Yes, let's deny a patient life saving medication because my beliefs in a fairy tale tell me so!

 

WriteWrong

(85 posts)
44. God made the medicine and put it in the hospital. Satan denied it to Joao Simoes
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 12:13 AM
Jun 2012

See? It's a simple matter of semantics.

Of course, there are better models, and the God/Satan model has no place in medicine, but if you're going to use it, you can apply it more than one way.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
108. no, a pharmaceutical company made the medicine...
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 09:08 PM
Jun 2012

and an asshole homophobe denied it. No use bringing the supernatural into it.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
47. Dr. Susan V. Borja. Note her name. Publicize it. Shun her.
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 01:23 AM
Jun 2012

"....news item may have misspelled the doctor's name. A Google search for Dr. Susan V. Borja shows her working at the named hospital...."

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
49. I think the actions may be associated with religion but ...
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 05:57 AM
Jun 2012

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2012, 10:36 AM - Edit history (3)

The whole report about the consulting doctor is dubious. If it is a Dr Borja (see below) then I find it unlikely that either a Child Psychiatrist or an Ob/Gyn would have any role to play in the treatment of an HIV/Aids patient. Because the Doctor concerned has not been indicted as an individual indictment I suspect that there may be an imposter at work, which might account for the misspelling.

Further information

Trinitas is a Catholic foundation and has had patient treatment problems before - sorry but the link is to Wiki (with all the problems) If others could research more deeply feel free. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betancourt_v._Trinitas

Ruben Betancourt of Elizabeth, N.J. was a 73-year-old retired machinist who suffered from anoxic encephalopathy, a form of brain damage, following successful thoracic surgery for a thymus gland tumor at Trinitas Regional Medical Center in 2008.[2] His doctors determined that he was in a persistent vegetative state, removed his dialysis port, and sought to impose a do not resuscitate order on him. In response to this decision, Betancourt's daughter went to court and sought legal guardianship of her father.[3] The hospital, which is affiliated with the Catholic Church, opposed her petition.[4] In court papers, Trinitas argued that "Mr. Betancourt is dying...and that dying is being prolonged by the treatment rendered." A trial court ruled in favor of Betancourt's daughter, finding that she was unquestionably a loving, appropriate guardian, and was also the unanimous choice of her family.[5] The hospital appealed the court's decision.[6] In contrast, Betancourt's daughter does not accept this diagnosis. "My father would turn his head," she told an interviewer. "One time I was joking, my father started laughing. How can you tell me a person like that is nonresponsive?".[7] When asked if Betancourt was suffering pain, a Trinitas doctor answered, "I know it. I've seen it." This calls the diagnosis into question, as pain is not consistent with the diagnosis of persistent vegetative state.[8]
I understand this denial of treatment is acceptable under certain interpretations of Catholic dogma.

Now to Dr Borga. Firstly There is no Dr Borga listed in NJ on You Compare. There are however 2 Dr Borja's listed. One is an Ob/Gyn associated with Christ Hospital, Jersey City; Dr Manuel Borja and the other is a Child Psychiatrist associated with Trinitas Hospital, Elizabeth; Dr Susan Borja. Both had their primary training in the Phillipines at University of Santo Tomas but I do not know if they are in some way related; another job for other researchers
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
50. this is the only other source I could find for this story
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 06:14 AM
Jun 2012

ELIZABETH, N.J. (CN) - A gay HIV-positive man says in court that a hospital denied him treatment and visitors, as the doctor remarked, "This is what he gets for going against God's will."
Joao Simoes sued Trinitas Regional Medical Center in Union County Superior Court. He says that the hospital admitted him in August 2011, but that "requests for his lifesaving medication were not honored," and his sister was denied visitation rights.
Susan V. Borga, M.D., from the Department of Behavioral Health and Psychiatry, allegedly approached Simoes while he was confined to the hospital's mental health wing. Borga is not named as a defendant.
Simoes says Borga was unfazed when another patient told her that he had just gotten out of prison, where he served time for murder. But her reaction was allegedly different when Simoes said that he did not work because he planned to go back to school and because of his HIV status.
Borga then allegedly asked Simoes how he got HIV, to which he responded, "I got it from unprotected sex."

<snip>

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/01/47019.htm

SemperEadem

(8,053 posts)
53. Yank her license
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 07:36 AM
Jun 2012

and charge her with depraved indifference to human life, shoulld his HIV morph into full blown AIDS due to her actions.

the hospital also has liability issues in not allowing his sister--a next of kin--to visit him. What kind of idiocy is this?

salin

(48,955 posts)
58. This is the hideous end to where all the conscience clause legislation leads.
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:46 AM
Jun 2012

Glad he eventually got his meds and almost a year later is suing the hospital. Revolting story that needs to be retold - again and again and again.......x 1000 (and then exponentially told again and again and again....by those who hear/read it.)

ArcticFox

(1,249 posts)
67. How does a god-fearing person presume to know god's will?
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 10:21 AM
Jun 2012

Or presume god wants her to damn another person rather than help. Wasn't Jesus' whole message about helping others? Where's the list of exceptions?

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
69. She should be barred from working in the health care profession altogether.
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 10:37 AM
Jun 2012

She's dangerous to human life and health. End of story.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
74. Are the doctors doing rounds at hospitals normally psychaitrists, or is that uncommon?
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 12:17 PM
Jun 2012

According to the link that you can follow, Dr. Susan Borja (not Borga as the article states) is a specialist in "Adolescent Psychiatry & Pediatric Psychiatry"

http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-susan-borja-yktkt

tammywammy

(26,582 posts)
86. The doctor isn't named as a defendant in the lawsuit
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 02:16 PM
Jun 2012

I'd think she'd be sued to, but maybe they're just going to report her to the state medical board.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/01/47019.htm

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
87. The fundies should be prevented from becoming doctors.......
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 03:29 PM
Jun 2012

If you have a religious or other affiliation that would interfere with your ability to perform your job as a doctor you should be denied.

This doctor should be brought on charges. If I were a Republican I would find a hit man to search her out. How could we agree to allow her to have a license.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
92. what ever this MD's religion is it really doesn't matter what does matter is
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 04:27 PM
Jun 2012

she recklessly endangered her patients life and according to an embedded link she is most likely a Psychiatrist in any event meaning she over stepped her area of specialty in refusing the meds, something most reputable MD's will not do

However when I first heard about MD;s and pharmacists refusing birth control and morning after pills I knew this kind of BS was not far behind

dmr

(28,347 posts)
96. There needs to be a legal obligation to not only
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 06:03 PM
Jun 2012

to immediately refer the patient to a physician who will honor "first do no harm".

If someone wants to be true to their own discriminating belief systems, then fine, but they are not off the hook of responsible treatment unless there is an honest referral in place where the patient receives his treatment without any delay. If there is a delay, then the first health care professional, in this case, the original doctor, must provide the care the patient needs.

The patient must always be first. Always. And if we need to make this into law, then, by God, let's do it!

This is not only shameful, but in my eyes, criminal! I also think that a health care provider needs to be up front with their patients and let them know in advance that this is the type of care they will not provide.

 

Trunk Monkey

(950 posts)
100. This is absolutely insane
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:02 PM
Jun 2012

How in the FUCK can a Dr. Take the Hippocratic oath and pull some shit like that?

 

crayfish

(55 posts)
104. Here's what I don't get: How can anything fail to comply with the "will" of an omnipotent,
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:19 PM
Jun 2012

omniscient and omnipresent deity? What good is a god who can't even have its own dictates obeyed? (Yes, I know all about the 'free will' bullshit...a lot of 'believers' want that and predestination both at the same time...no wonder intelligent people are abandoning the insanity of religion...)

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
112. Watch out you're trying to use "reason"
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 02:26 AM
Jun 2012

Next thing you'll be questioning "teaching" and revealed "wisdom" and then where would we be?? apart from better off, of course.

Hello and welcome,

 

Leontius

(2,270 posts)
106. Any of the experts here been hospitalized with an infectious disease?
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:54 PM
Jun 2012

If you have then alarm bells should be sounding, this story does not add up.

The Wizard

(12,545 posts)
107. Yet it's the "pro life" extremists
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 09:02 PM
Jun 2012

who shoot doctors with whom they disapprove. The cognitive dissonance, it burns.

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
109. This is the danger of "religious liberty"....
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 09:35 PM
Jun 2012

Whether we think the health care reform law mandate to provide birth control is really a question of religious liberty or not we are at a crossroads....

For years now pharmacists have been able to "due to conscience" deny filling birth control and other prescriptions.

When are we going to learn that if you are a doctor, pharmacist, nurse, etc. you must do what the general community has deemed to be reasonable and prudent care?

You can pontificate all you want but I am tired of allowing these people to deny care based on their religious beliefs. If you are so beholden to your faith then go to your "order" and practice there. If you want to hold a state-issued licensed to practice then you do your job. Shut up about your personal beliefs.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
115. A word of caution--the allegations have not been
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 08:00 AM
Jun 2012

proven or even substantiated.

The story is every bit as horrible as the comments here indicate--if true.

But, guy was admitted to the psych ward--his perceptions may not have been entirely lucid.

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