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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Against God's Will": Gay Man Sues NJ Hospital For Being Denied HIV Meds
"Against God's Will": Gay Man Sues NJ Hospital For Being Denied HIV Meds
New Jersey gay man Joao Simoes is suing his hospital after an on-staff doctor refused him his HIV medications. Dr. Susan Borga* allegedly later told his private physician what the patient had done to become infected was "against God's will."
When the hospital finally permitted Simoes to call his personal physician on the third day of his stay, he learned that the doctor had already spoken with Borga about Simoes' medication, according to the complaint. Borga allegedly responded: "You must be gay, too, if you're his doctor." "Additionally, apparently realizing that plaintiff's doctor had an accent, Dr. Borga exclaimed, 'What, do you need a translator?' to which plaintiff's doctor had again responded that Dr. Borga needed to give plaintiff his HIV medication," the complaint states. "Dr. Borga responded to plaintiff's doctor by stating, 'This is what he gets for going against God's will,' and hung up the phone on plaintiff's doctor."
The hospital also initially refused to allow the patient's sister to visit him. She was finally permitted to bring him his medications after he'd missed five doses. Missing doses of HIV medication can cause the patient to become resistant to the drugs.
http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/06/against-gods-will-gay-man-sues-nj.html
Puregonzo1188
(1,948 posts)Why the fuck do fundies even want to go on to become doctors?
bongbong
(5,436 posts)> Why the fuck do fundies even want to go on to become doctors?
So they can kill people they hate, errr, god tells them to kill?
Initech
(100,081 posts)If I were the applicant interviewer for medical school - the question of denying patients based on religious beliefs would be first on my list - you could weed out a lot of these heartless douchebags that way.
dinopipie
(84 posts)is their role mode and they want to emulate him.
GD Fundies are destroying this country.
If so called 'good' Christians exist when will they get control of the so called 'bad' Christians?
Occulus
(20,599 posts)"good christians" are a vanishingly small and powerless minority. They are such a small number that they do not now and will not ever get control of their fundamentalists.
And, I don't think they want to. Every act of homophobia I have ever seen, read about, witnessed,.or experienced for myself- every single one, without any exception at all- has had its roots in that faith.
I am done tolerating a religion that so obviously holds such deadly hatred toward me and those like me. This religion has proven itself to be a direct threat to my life, my safety, and the lives and safety of those I love and care about.
I don't have to tolerate that. And i won't. Never again.
XanaDUer
(12,939 posts)I don't get these folks.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)That is where this all started.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)being pharmacists. They are dangerous to the living.
daaron
(763 posts)it don't say a damn thing about prohibiting religious tests for getting a license to practice medicine.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)to practice revoked. In fact, I would think some lawsuits could be filed to do just that in some of these cases.
daaron
(763 posts)Or a federal law mandating doctors adhere to the Hip. Oath over all other oaths, with repercussions if they fail to comply?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Until it begs for mercy and changes all of its discriminatory policies. Civil rights charges should be filed by the feds, since the hospital gets Medicare and Medicaid monies.
A call should be made to the state licensing board, hospital owners and all the insurers and the Feds. A huge stink needs to be made about this, it needs to go viral!
This ____ doesn't know how AIDS can be transmitted, either. She has no business treating anyone!!
RainDog
(28,784 posts)so in this case - it doesn't appear to be a fundie who is playing god.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)individual, and religion might not even be involved. Of course, that doesn't excuse the staff and hospital. It sounded like collective homophobia to me.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I took your view that the Catholic church is not fundamentalist. The opposing view was that, in fact, the current Pope does quite fit the criteria. I lost that debate.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)that began in the 1920s that stressed the "fundamentals" of the bible for protestants.
Fundamentalism held that evolution was not true, that the bible is a literal "historical" document of events and that segregation, btw, was also part of god's plan - the KKK was heavily aligned with fundamentalist religious groups and politicians at the time.
The Scopes trial figured into the fundamentalist movement - its primary motivation was a reactionary response to science.
Catholicism doesn't deny evolution. No doubt the Catholic church has also had its moments, with Galileo and now, with women.
But fundamentalist protestants and conservative Catholics have found common ground in aspects of the culture wars - such as oppression of women and the GBLT population in the U.S.
Fundamentalist Protestants, traditionally, have hated the Catholic church and claimed it was the "whore of Babylon" mentioned in the book of Revelations because of the "pagan" worship of saints, and because Catholic doctrine claims the Pope is inerrant and b/c, all the way back to Martin Luther, Protestants claimed the right to interpret the bible according to individual conscience, rather than decree - tho the fundie prots also make certain claims that their congregants are supposed to adhere to in order to be a member in good standing.
So, whether the current Pope has agreements with fundie prot povs isn't the point - they have major doctrinal differences and fundies would never claim the pope as their spokesperson.
cprise
(8,445 posts)"Fundamentalism" is a broad term with no connection to a specific religion. But it can apply to any of them.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)it has since been used to apply to various religious issues and non-religious issues as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fundamentals
The volumes defended orthodox Protestant beliefs and attacked higher criticism, liberal theology, Catholicism (also called by them Romanism), socialism, modern philosophy, atheism, Christian Science, Mormonism, Millennial Dawn (an early term for a particular Christian Bible Student movement which mostly later became the "Jehovah's Witnesses" denomination), Spiritualism, and evolutionism (an article by geologist George Frederick Wright).
(evolutionism: The Institute for Creation Research, in order to treat evolution as a category of religions, including atheism, fascism, humanism and occultism, commonly uses the words evolutionism and evolutionist to describe the consensus of mainstream science and the scientists subscribing to it, thus implying through language that the issue is a matter of religious belief.[10] The basis of this argument is to establish that the creation-evolution controversy is essentially one of interpretation of evidence, without any overwhelming proof (beyond current scientific theories) on either side. Creationists tend to use the term evolutionism in an attempt to suggest that the theory of evolution and creationism are equal in a philosophical debate.)
now, however, the term is more broadly - but it came out of this 20th c. movement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism
but some people debate the use of this term in such a broad fashion. it was not used to describe Islam to the west, however, until the Iranian hostage crisis - it's not a term that comes from the Islamic world, afaik.
The use of this term is established and must be accepted, but it remains unfortunate and can be misleading. "Fundamentalist" is a Christian term. It seems to have come into use in the early years of this century, and denotes certain Protestant churches and organizations, more particularly those that maintain the literal divine origin and inerrancy of the Bible. In this they oppose the liberal and modernist theologians, who tend to a more critical, historical view of Scripture. Among Muslim theologians there is as yet no such liberal or modernist approach to the Qur'an, and all Muslims, in their attitude to the text of the Qur'an, are in principle at least fundamentalists. Where the so-called Muslim fundamentalists differ from other Muslims and indeed from Christian fundamentalists is in their scholasticism and their legalism. They base themselves not only on the Qur'an, but also on the Traditions of the Prophet, and on the corpus of transmitted theological and legal learning
The term has been applied to Hindus since the development of a militant group in response to their clashes with Muslims and the term has been applied to atheists since 2007 when Dawkins began to speak out against creationism as an atheist.
Since it has become a pejorative, some Fundamentalist Christians who were actually the first to begin to identify themselves in this way now want to distance themselves from the label and call others "fundamentalist."
But the ACCURATE meaning of the term in religion, esp. in Christianity, is for a Protestant Biblical literalist. Nevertheless, we have accepted the media term "Islamic Fundamentalist" in most discussions. I have never heard the term applied to the Catholic church in any media context, but maybe I missed it.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Well isn't that lovely. Miss doses and become resistant to it? Wow.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)will hear this and rub their hands together with glee.
I am being completely serious when I say that tjis shit scares the living hell out of me. Clearly, this faith is a direct threat to the lives of people I know personally at this point... People I care about.
My tolerance has come to an end. If that makes me an anti-christian bigot, frankly, I've been called a whole lot worse by much better people. I'll live with it.
Happily.
emilyg
(22,742 posts)she is Christian?
daaron
(763 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)Surprise! I was right!
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Speaking as a Christian, you do a disservice with your hate. Some of us are on the front lines educating our community/family about the realities of HIV/AIDs. For every one step forward we take, bigotry takes us back two.
Work with us - don't throw us under the bus. Or if you must, then just rant on the internet and stay the hell out of our way.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)look at the number of GLBT supportive churches. I'm always amazed at how many there are ...
http://www.gaychurch.org/Find_a_Church/find_a_church.htm
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)They do a lot of good work in the community.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Personally, I don't want a physician, or any kind of science-oriented important professional who believes in Stone Age mythology and spooks in the sky, thank you very much. The god delusion needs to just go.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)Wouldn't you agree that this doctor is just a homophobe mostly? The doctor may be saying it's against God's will just as an excuse to try to rid the world of another gay person rather than admit it's just pure hatred and fear and rage. The hospital should fire the doctor unless it also is in the business of ridding the world of teh gay.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)cprise
(8,445 posts)That still makes it a problem with religion itself in my book.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Which is not the case. Bigotry, homophobia and racism are everywhere and not just in religions. It's just that some use religion as an excuse because they can hide their hatred and fear behind quotes in the bible or whatever holy book they follow. They use 'God's will' as their excuse.
cprise
(8,445 posts)I hope it was refreshing.
The rest of your reply did point out that religion offers something uniquely useful to bigots. When other institutions try to purvey falsehood and hatred, they at least lack the conceits of omnipotence, omniscience and eternal perpetuity associated with 'Gods will'.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Quantess
(27,630 posts)A religious fundie, in any case.
w8liftinglady
(23,278 posts)I certainly hope the state medical board has been alerted.
I will say any nurse worth her salt would have been on the phone to administration in a heartbeat.
I would have given the "doctor" quite a stern look.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Even if this doctor is disciplined, other christian doctors are sure to hear about the drug resistance and are sure to become "martyrs" for their "cause".
Wait for it. It'll happen.
daaron
(763 posts)emilyg
(22,742 posts)disgusts me. This doctor trained in the Phillipines - Your mouth is loud and not factual.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)I do not agree with broad-brushing Christians, at all, I'm just confused.
Also, many Filipinos are Ctaholic, and Borgia is an Italian surname.
emilyg
(22,742 posts)be cultural bias. In any case she needs to be fired.
thecrow
(5,519 posts)And I think that rather than yell at her on DU, she should receive a lot of letters from us in the near future.
I just think it is incredibly arrogant for ANYONE to think that they know the mind of the Almighty.
Rittermeister
(170 posts)I don't hate all Christians, but you can be damn sure I have absolutely no respect for your faith. 3,000-year-old patriarchal, authoritarian nonsense written by a second-rate nation of goat herders and fishermen.
emilyg
(22,742 posts)trying to convert you. My faith works for me.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)where christians are concerned.
I can bear your disgust with enormous fortitude. To me, it is a physically dangerous religion.
My "hate", as you call it, is fully justified.
emilyg
(22,742 posts)trying to convert you. I'll keep my faith. Peace to both of us.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)It is simply not in its nature.
Therefore, I will continue the fight against it. Fighting for rights that offend your religion, and offending your own religious sensibilities will, I assure you, give me the greatest pleasure.
Bank on it.
emilyg
(22,742 posts)don't do will have no bearing on my life.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Your religion will, whether I like it or not, whether I do nothing or not, continue to have a negative impact on MY life.. and I am not and will not ever be a christian.
That's what makes your religion a black and poisonous evil to me. That you fail to recognize that is, well... very, very "christian" of you.
crayfish
(55 posts)three hundred really are. And they would be good people even without the delusion of religion.
http://www.godisimaginary.com
emilyg
(22,742 posts)Warpy
(111,277 posts)that my report would singe the eyebrows off the entire house staff. I would have sent a copy to the state medical licensing board, also.
Borga is a huge lawsuit waiting to happen, a religious fanatic who fails to understand the various ways HIV is transmitted and who feels entitled to take her god's place as judge over her patients.
The poor patient will likely sue both her and the facility if the worst happens, although missing five doses might not be enough to trigger resistance.
These pious assholes need to open store front churches. They should never be allowed anywhere near the ill and vulnerable.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)And, oh yes, they are Catholics:
http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2009/November/09-civ-1247.html
WASHINGTON The United States has entered into a settlement with a New Jersey hospital and filed a motion to intervene in a lawsuit against a New York hospital involving allegations that the hospitals defrauded Medicare, the Justice Department announced today.
The United States settled for $3.02 million, plus interest, with Trinitas Regional Medical Center in Elizabeth, N.J.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)pharmacists who choose not to follow the Hippocratic Oath. They are endangering the lives of patients, noting short of rogue murderers IMO. Their god is not my god. They are nothing short of the incantation of evilness from the depths of hell!
Warpy
(111,277 posts)every place but those religious hospitals that seek to erase women from the navel to the knees.
Playing god the judge is opening the doctor and the hospital to massive lawsuits because that sort of thing injures and kills patients.
Butterbean
(1,014 posts)richmwill
(1,326 posts)I'm sure her Pastor and fellow church members, along with her fellow freepers, will let her know that they support her 100% in this. (gag)
Occulus
(20,599 posts)They've gone from "merely" talking about killing us off- openly, in public- to actually trying.
I have a question for every single christian here at DU:
Why in the blue fuck should any of us GLBTs trust your religion or its followers after hearing this?
Christianity. Kills.
Literally!! Right there, in the darned OP!!
:absolutelyfuckingfuriouswithyourfaith:
emilyg
(22,742 posts)she's Christian?
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish,....
They all are caught up in a bunch of Stone Age mythology and hooey that needs to stay away from their professional life if they chose a profession in a scientific field... like medicine. They can dress up and play with their ancient theatre and rituals at home, but in the big adult world, keep it in check.
emilyg
(22,742 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)richmwill
(1,326 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)And why is she not named as a defendant?
Something is fishy here.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)which makes the ward's shrink the rough equivalent of the PCP for the patients - in order to get access to specialists, such as the correct specialist for treating HIV, the patients have to go through the psychiatrist. And puts the psychiatrist in the position of gatekeeper.
rug
(82,333 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I hope he wins. I hope that Doctor loses everything.
lookingfortruth
(263 posts)This is getting out of hand.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)that the women got cancer because they had abortions.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)MountainLaurel
(10,271 posts)Because a lot of the fundies (and the Scientologists) teach that mental illness don't really exist, that it's just Man's selfish nature manifesting itself. If you pray hard enough, apparently it'll go away.
Kali
(55,014 posts)doctor needs to be fired and license removed first, sued for a very large sum of money second
could something like that be a criminal offense? could this asshole be sent to prison? talk about sinning ugh
FirstLight
(13,360 posts)what about the Hippocratic oath? (Bold and Italics mine)
...
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
I guess it is just a 'quaint' idea that universities have doctors take at the end of their schooling... and it is not required...
not legally binding, but I thought it was still relevant
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Javaman
(62,530 posts)bupkus
(1,981 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Does Dr. Borga(does she have a sister named Lucrezia, by any chance)still have a job after that?
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Doesnt becoming a doctor involve science, math, facts, and other stuff wingnuts are allergic to?
daaron
(763 posts)frogmarch
(12,154 posts)That's how I feel about it, anyway. His losing his job at the hospital, or even losing his medical license, wouldn't be enough.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)AJTheMan
(288 posts)That is sickening. Yes, let's deny a patient life saving medication because my beliefs in a fairy tale tell me so!
complain jane
(4,302 posts)What an asshat. What the hell hospital was this?
Solly Mack
(90,773 posts)WriteWrong
(85 posts)See? It's a simple matter of semantics.
Of course, there are better models, and the God/Satan model has no place in medicine, but if you're going to use it, you can apply it more than one way.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)and an asshole homophobe denied it. No use bringing the supernatural into it.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)"....news item may have misspelled the doctor's name. A Google search for Dr. Susan V. Borja shows her working at the named hospital...."
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)intaglio
(8,170 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2012, 10:36 AM - Edit history (3)
The whole report about the consulting doctor is dubious. If it is a Dr Borja (see below) then I find it unlikely that either a Child Psychiatrist or an Ob/Gyn would have any role to play in the treatment of an HIV/Aids patient. Because the Doctor concerned has not been indicted as an individual indictment I suspect that there may be an imposter at work, which might account for the misspelling.
Further information
Trinitas is a Catholic foundation and has had patient treatment problems before - sorry but the link is to Wiki (with all the problems) If others could research more deeply feel free. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betancourt_v._Trinitas
Now to Dr Borga. Firstly There is no Dr Borga listed in NJ on You Compare. There are however 2 Dr Borja's listed. One is an Ob/Gyn associated with Christ Hospital, Jersey City; Dr Manuel Borja and the other is a Child Psychiatrist associated with Trinitas Hospital, Elizabeth; Dr Susan Borja. Both had their primary training in the Phillipines at University of Santo Tomas but I do not know if they are in some way related; another job for other researchers
cali
(114,904 posts)ELIZABETH, N.J. (CN) - A gay HIV-positive man says in court that a hospital denied him treatment and visitors, as the doctor remarked, "This is what he gets for going against God's will."
Joao Simoes sued Trinitas Regional Medical Center in Union County Superior Court. He says that the hospital admitted him in August 2011, but that "requests for his lifesaving medication were not honored," and his sister was denied visitation rights.
Susan V. Borga, M.D., from the Department of Behavioral Health and Psychiatry, allegedly approached Simoes while he was confined to the hospital's mental health wing. Borga is not named as a defendant.
Simoes says Borga was unfazed when another patient told her that he had just gotten out of prison, where he served time for murder. But her reaction was allegedly different when Simoes said that he did not work because he planned to go back to school and because of his HIV status.
Borga then allegedly asked Simoes how he got HIV, to which he responded, "I got it from unprotected sex."
<snip>
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/01/47019.htm
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)and charge her with depraved indifference to human life, shoulld his HIV morph into full blown AIDS due to her actions.
the hospital also has liability issues in not allowing his sister--a next of kin--to visit him. What kind of idiocy is this?
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)"Dr" Borga has no business practicing medicine if she can't set aside her bigoted fundy beliefs.
salin
(48,955 posts)Glad he eventually got his meds and almost a year later is suing the hospital. Revolting story that needs to be retold - again and again and again.......x 1000 (and then exponentially told again and again and again....by those who hear/read it.)
spanone
(135,844 posts)BlueIris
(29,135 posts)That doctor is a vile human being. Poor patients.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)Or presume god wants her to damn another person rather than help. Wasn't Jesus' whole message about helping others? Where's the list of exceptions?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)She's dangerous to human life and health. End of story.
on point
(2,506 posts)Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)According to the link that you can follow, Dr. Susan Borja (not Borga as the article states) is a specialist in "Adolescent Psychiatry & Pediatric Psychiatry"
http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-susan-borja-yktkt
dembotoz
(16,808 posts)Lucky Luciano
(11,257 posts)tammywammy
(26,582 posts)I'd think she'd be sued to, but maybe they're just going to report her to the state medical board.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/01/47019.htm
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)If you have a religious or other affiliation that would interfere with your ability to perform your job as a doctor you should be denied.
This doctor should be brought on charges. If I were a Republican I would find a hit man to search her out. How could we agree to allow her to have a license.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)she recklessly endangered her patients life and according to an embedded link she is most likely a Psychiatrist in any event meaning she over stepped her area of specialty in refusing the meds, something most reputable MD's will not do
However when I first heard about MD;s and pharmacists refusing birth control and morning after pills I knew this kind of BS was not far behind
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)fruitsmoothie45
(22 posts)dmr
(28,347 posts)to immediately refer the patient to a physician who will honor "first do no harm".
If someone wants to be true to their own discriminating belief systems, then fine, but they are not off the hook of responsible treatment unless there is an honest referral in place where the patient receives his treatment without any delay. If there is a delay, then the first health care professional, in this case, the original doctor, must provide the care the patient needs.
The patient must always be first. Always. And if we need to make this into law, then, by God, let's do it!
This is not only shameful, but in my eyes, criminal! I also think that a health care provider needs to be up front with their patients and let them know in advance that this is the type of care they will not provide.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)n/t
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Trunk Monkey
(950 posts)How in the FUCK can a Dr. Take the Hippocratic oath and pull some shit like that?
crayfish
(55 posts)omniscient and omnipresent deity? What good is a god who can't even have its own dictates obeyed? (Yes, I know all about the 'free will' bullshit...a lot of 'believers' want that and predestination both at the same time...no wonder intelligent people are abandoning the insanity of religion...)
intaglio
(8,170 posts)Next thing you'll be questioning "teaching" and revealed "wisdom" and then where would we be?? apart from better off, of course.
Hello and welcome,
Leontius
(2,270 posts)If you have then alarm bells should be sounding, this story does not add up.
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)who shoot doctors with whom they disapprove. The cognitive dissonance, it burns.
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)Whether we think the health care reform law mandate to provide birth control is really a question of religious liberty or not we are at a crossroads....
For years now pharmacists have been able to "due to conscience" deny filling birth control and other prescriptions.
When are we going to learn that if you are a doctor, pharmacist, nurse, etc. you must do what the general community has deemed to be reasonable and prudent care?
You can pontificate all you want but I am tired of allowing these people to deny care based on their religious beliefs. If you are so beholden to your faith then go to your "order" and practice there. If you want to hold a state-issued licensed to practice then you do your job. Shut up about your personal beliefs.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)proven or even substantiated.
The story is every bit as horrible as the comments here indicate--if true.
But, guy was admitted to the psych ward--his perceptions may not have been entirely lucid.