75yr old man kills 13yr kid

[HipChick]

Sad..shot him down in front of the kids mother..

http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east-wisconsin/milwaukee/Man-75-charged-with-homicide-appears-in-court/-/10148890/14431932/-/yb8ggvz/-/index.html

75-year-old Milwaukee man accused of shooting his 13-year-old neighbor appeared in court Saturday morning.

John Spooner was charged late Friday afternoon with first-degree intentional homicide.

The court set Spooner's bail at $300,000, and he was ordered not to have any firearms and not to have contact with anyone at the victim's address.

The criminal complaint said Spooner admitted to police during his arrest that he shot Darius Simmons.

Charging documents detailed what witnesses say they saw the day of the shooting. The victim's mother, Patricia Larry, told police her son was retrieving the family's trash cans from in front of their house when Spooner approached him, saying he "wanted his stuff back" and that he "wanted his shotguns back."

Spooner accused Simmons of stealing from his home.

Larry said she then witnessed Spooner shoot her son in the chest.

According to the criminal complaint, when police arrived on scene Spooner said, "Yeah, I shot him."

WISN 12 News reporter Marianne Lyles found out that just an hour before the shooting, Spooner opened up about his frustrations with neighbors.

Milwaukee police said they recognized the area around 19th and Arrow streets address when the call came in about a man they said shot his teenage neighbor. Dispatch records obtained by WISN 12 News show the Spooner called 911 at least 15 times in five years, including four stolen guns after a break-in Tuesday.

Shooter
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Victim

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Read more: http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east-wisconsin/milwaukee/Man-75-charged-with-homicide-appears-in-court/-/10148890/14431932/-/yb8ggvz/-/index.html#ixzz1wl3AyquY

[tawadi]

1. Can't help wondering how much the Trayvon Martin case might've influenced that old man. eom

[HipChick]

4. He looks like a grumpy Get Off My Lawn type of guy

[Baitball Blogger]

23. Get off my lawn types are usually sitting on easements and common grounds.

They call themselves land takers. I call them thieves of children's playgrounds.

[orpupilofnature57]

2. 15 Times in Three years should

have been a clue .

[patrice]

24. You'd think in that amount of time there would've been someone around whose responsibility it was

to disabuse this guy of any mistaken notions he may have been developing. Certainly SOME investigators heard something from him that they might have tried to at least neutralize. Maybe it wouldn't have done any good, but it would have been better than doing nothing and just letting a bad situation get worse until someone gets hurt.

[Hawkowl]

3. Why is this murderer out on bail!!!?!

Anyone that walks up to a 13 year old kid and shoots him in cold blood is a HUGE danger to society. Jesus F. Christ! Why is this man out on the street?!

[Arkansas Granny]

7. It doesn't make sense to me, either. From the news report, it doesn't sound like

he can even claim self defense.

[Scootaloo]

9. Look at the pictures

Sometimes, the answer really is that obvious.

[piratefish08]

10. old white guy, young black kid.

and you question why he's out on bail?

yes. the system really DOES work that way.

[Enrique]

5. i'm sensing a correlation

between gun ownership and calling 911.

[vaberella]

21. Huh, but no correlation bet. gun ownership, shooting Black people, and 911?

Oh wait...let's throw in Black/Hispanic people.

[WingDinger]

6. With stand your ground, can't you shoot later, still claiming

to have shot the criminal? Has he ever donned gold grill?

[Marrah_G]

8. I cannot imagine being the mother of a young black man

I would be terrified to let them leave the house. I'm trying to wrap my brain around seeing your 13 your old shot in front of you for no reason.....that poor mother.

This has to stop.

[uponit7771]

51. +1

[Gore1FL]

11. He has newt Gingrich facial characteristics--weird. n/t

[treestar]

15. Same thought here

Guy looks like Newtie.

[onehandle]

12. Gun culture strikes again. nt

[Hoyt]

19. Exactly.

[enough]

13. Extreme paranoia, anger and hostility, fixating on the belief that a particular person is stealing

from you, often with racist overtones -- all of these are common symptoms of the early to middle stages of Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia.

No way to tell if this is what's going on with this man, but the problem is very common and can be dangerous, especially with so many people having guns in the house. The issue of when to get rid of the guns is just as problematic with Alzheimer's as the issue of when to get rid of the car.

[slackmaster]

14. Dementia is a good reason to divest one's self of dangerous weapons

[Hoyt]

20. Gun culture goes nuts when that is suggested as justification to remove one's lethal weapons.

[slackmaster]

30. I personally don't know anyone who has a problem with banning gun ownership for people who have been

...adjudicated as mentally incompetent for any reason, including dementia.

Hoyt is tilting at windmills as usual.

[hack89]

39. Dementia is a perfectly acceptable reason to remove someone's guns. nt

[slackmaster]

42. Yes, and if the government doesn't do that it's the responsibility of the person's family or friends

I had an uncle who became severely demented as a result of a brain tumor that eventually killed him. His wife and sons removed every firearm from the house (roughly 50 of them) about a year before his death, with the exception of his wife's personal defense pistol which she carried in her purse.

That family did the right thing. My uncle put up a fuss about it at first, but quickly forgot as his condition worsened.

[MjolnirTime]

16. This old bastard will get just what he deserves in the slammer, for the rest of his miserable life.

[Meiko]

22. If it is determined that he has

Alzheimer's and shot the kid because he was suffering from dementia he may not serve any time.

[Blue_Tires]

31. He'll just serve time in a mental facility than a hardcore prison

He doesn't walk free just becaue of his dementia...

[Meiko]

64. True

But will pepole see justice served?

[Blue_Tires]

65. Well, he'll be under constant watch until he dies and won't have access to weapons

so he isn't a danger anymore...

[PSPS]

27. Please enlighten us. Describe "just what he deserves" that he will get "in the slammer."

[blueamy66]

53. lack of freedom

crappy food, no tv, thin mattress, showers every 3rd day, not alot of fresh air, no recliner or grocery store

that should help you out

[MjolnirTime]

61. He'll get to meet some kids like the one he shot. But he won't have a gun anymore.

[HipChick]

17. There were two people jogging outside my home the other day...

One was white, one was black....my neighbor was walking by, and commented about the black jogger " I wonder what house he was running out of..." I knew was he insinuating, I went up one side and down the other... his racist mind is marinated by Faux News..

[felix_numinous]

18. Oh. No.

[obamanut2012]

25. Even if the boy DID steal his guns

That doesn't warrant cold-blooded murder.

And, why the hell is he out on bail??? If I lived in that neighborhood, I would be scared to death.

[Go Vols]

69. yep

[harmonicon]

26. Hmm... the intricacies of the DU zeitgeist surrounding shootings are interesting.

I've read people on here applauding vicious murders of people who were accused of abuse. My own feeling is that there's never any excuse for one person to kill another. That said - based on things I've read on DU, I didn't know which opinion I'd read here - is this guy a poor, frail, old man, victimized by local bullies? Is he a vicious, racist murderer? My bet is that it's neither. My guess is that in human history, there has never been an interaction between two people which could have been improved with the addition of firearms.

[vaberella]

32. It's a 13 year old kid throwing out the trash.

What the hell 'interaction between two people could have been improved'?

This wasn't two 75 year old men, or even two 13 year old boys. This is an old man who went out of his mind and murdered a 13 year old boy----INTENTIONALLY. He accused the boy of stealing his guns. Let me ask you this...what in the fuck could the 13 year old have said to improve the situation with this 75 year old man? What type of reasoning would be needed? And if this man was suffering from a mental condition---is there ANY logical reasoning possible?

I find your guess simplistic and definitely wrong in this situation.

[lapislzi]

35. I believe Harmonicum was making a philosophical statement.

Using dry wit.

The point is, when people are engaged in a disagreement or an altercation, even a one-sided one, as this seems to have been, the presence of firearms WILL make the situation worse for both parties.

We don't know how the young man responded to his neighbor when the old man started his tirade. He's dead and can't tell us. But whatever he may have said, there is nothing that could possibly justify his being shot. Period. He could have called the man a crazy old motherfucking coot (which he probably is), or he could have said, sorry, sir, I don't know what you mean, are you OK? Or anything in between.

Had no firearms been present, the old man may have continued his tantrum, or kicked the kid, or stormed back into his house...and nobody would be dead.

The presence of firearms turned a bad situation deadly.

[harmonicon]

62. Yep. (nt)

[Cali_Democrat]

28. America's gun fetish is out of control

[ileus]

29. A very shitty assed way to get your shotguns back...

I'd like to know what exactly lead him to believe shooting someone would get his firearms back, and what made him believe this person had stolen them.

[lapislzi]

33. He'd had four guns stolen

How many guns, exactly, does a person need? I seem to be managing OK without any, but I'd like to be sure so I purchase the correct number.

[hack89]

41. Depends what you use them for

I have four - a rifle for hunting, a shotgun that is a family heirloom and two pistols (one for home defense and a .22 for target practice.)

[lapislzi]

44. And where are these items stored, sir?

I would presume that you'd wish to display the heirloom, in which case I sincerely hope it is not loaded and is otherwise disabled.

Please don't misunderstand me; I'm not opposed to the ownership of firearms in principle. I just believe that it's a terribly grave responsibility to keep them safe and out of the wrong hands.

When I owned a handgun--for my own protection, as I lived in a rural area of South Africa, and my philandering then-husband saw fit to leave me alone most nights--I was more of a nervous wreck than I'd been before he brought the thing home. I knew I'd have to defend the gun if someone broke in and tried to take it, and that would mean shooting someone.

I wasn't thrilled at that prospect, but it was slightly better than the prospect of being raped and murdered in my bed, which was a real possibility. Fortunately, I never had to deal with either.

I felt a great relief when my husband got rid of that gun.

[hack89]

45. In a gun safe. nt

[lapislzi]

47. Perfect answer. Thank you n/t

[Mr Dixon]

34. SMH

The age difference is part of the problem, which the old man is probably terrified of his young black neighbor, and history tells us that shooting him was fine back in his day say the 1950. IMO the Trayvon Martin case has the same overtones; I’m willing to bet that the people sending money to Zimmerman, look and feel just like this old guy in the photo. Fear is the justification, and why not be scared, the media scares most people daily especially old people.

[WI_DEM]

36. miserable old fuck--of course he assumes the black kid next door stole his guns.

[slackmaster]

43. Have you ever had the misfortune to have to deal with an Alzheimer's patient, WI_DEM?

I'm not saying the killer in this case necessarily has it, but his behavior suggests some form of dementia.

It's quite common for a person with dementia to accuse everyone within sight of stealing. People who work in assisted living facilities often get blamed when a patient can't locate something. So do family members and friends.

I suggest holding off on concluding that race has anything to do with this until there is something more compelling than the fact that one person is white and the other black.

He may well be a racist, or he may just be mentally ill. Or both.

[lapislzi]

37. An oft-overlooked point about guns, and a reason I don't have them

Yes, yes, it's all there in the Second Amendment. Your RIGHT to bear arms. Fine.

Well, it's a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's true: with rights come responsibilities.

When I owned a firearm in South Africa, I did the requisite target practice. The officer at the shooting range told me something I hadn't considered: you must be prepared to defend your firearm. You cannot allow it to be taken from you. Your firearm defends you. You must in turn keep it safe.

It is actually a level of responsibility that I don't wish to bear, and one of the reasons I will not own a firearm again.

If the man whose guns were stolen had secured them properly, the theft would not have occurred, or have been less likely to occur. I doubt a 13-year-old would have the patience or expertise to crack a gun safe, or carry it out of a house unnoticed. (Note: I am not suggesting that the young man stole the guns; just that it is much easier to steal unsecured weapons)

Having your guns just lying around the house, or stowed in a closet, is asking for trouble.

[aikoaiko]

38. Based on the article, it sounds like murder pure and simple

Criminals do terrible things.

[slackmaster]

40. The unlawful killing of a human, with malice aforethought.

Dementia would not excuse the act.

[lapislzi]

46. It would not.

But it would explain the paranoid behavior. When my grandmother lived with me, she was in the middle stages of dementia. The police were regular visitors whenever she couldn't find something or when I left the house briefly. Fortunately, they had a good sense of humor, because she would have had them believe:

1. Wild animals were entering our home and taking her china.
2. I left her alone for weeks at a time with no food or water.
3. My 3-year-old daughter was stealing her wig collection for her own use.
4. A distant cousin was defrauding her bank account and conspiring to steal her Hummel collection (I sent the Hummels to the cousin after she died).

Funny, in all that time, she never forgot how to use the telephone or how to call the police.

The local police flagged our address and phone number as a home with a memory-impaired person, and they were unerringly patient and polite.

[slackmaster]

48. That's a tragic situation. Thanks for sharing your experience.

That kind of paranoia is very common.

[lapislzi]

49. It does make me wonder

Why this individual went off the deep end in that way. There's not much in the way of back story, but the history of 911 calls gives me pause.

When dementia sets in, you never know which way it's going to go. The paranoia is typical of the mid stage, and the sufferer is usually terrified all the time--because they know at some level that their mind is going, and they're deeply frightened.

Anxiolytics helped my grandmother a great deal. Sundowning, Grandma? Here, take your Xanax and fold some towels.

[librechik]

50. It's a mental illness, and it's spreading.

poor child!

[BlueIris]

52. Awful.

How can anyone do something like this?

[Go Vols]

66. nutty?

[RZM]

54. Hey! What happened to the anti perp picture brigade?

They were all over this thread in a matter of minutes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002705603

Yet this one has been up for 24 hours and they are nowhere to be found. That's quite odd.

I guess they had a change of heart and now believe (as I do) that posting pics of the perp and the victim is perfectly fine.

BTW, very sad story here . Sounds like straight-up murder.

[obamanut2012]

55. I don't get your point?

[RZM]

56. Skim both threads and you'll probably understand what I'm talking about

In the thread from a few weeks ago, the very first comment questioned why it was necessary to post a pic of the perp (the implication being racism) and other posters chimed in agreeing. This started a debate that ended up taking up a majority of replies to the thread.

Here you have another thread with pics of the perp and the victim and it's been up for 24 hours and not one person has criticized the OP for posting pics.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

58. Do you really believe this you wrote on the other thread?

"Portraying a black person as a perpetrator and not a victim conflicts with the white liberal narrative about blacks"

Really?

[RZM]

59. I certainly believe that accounts for the different responses

Obviously not everybody feels that way. And I will freely admit that I probably should have written 'a narrative' instead of 'the narrative' because there is obviously more than one liberal narrative about race and a myriad of perspectives and opinions. So claiming that this was the only liberal narrative was incorrect and I acknowledge that.

But I stand by my statement that such differences accounted for the hostility to the pics in the first thread and the lack of hostility here. As far as I am concerned, this thread is evidence of that. There were people who disapproved of posting pics in the other thread and so far nobody disapproves in this thread.

Don't you think that tells us something about how some people perceive the two cases?

[TBF]

57. Cue the NRA trolls to come out and make excuses for the guy ...

oh, I see some have already started. Not surprised at all.

[TNLib]

60. What's scary is these crazy paranoid people have such easy access to guns.

nt

[slackmaster]

68. I doubt that Spooner was crazy or paranoid when he acquired firearms

He's been around for 75 years. If he was always a nut case, he wouldn't have survived so long as a free person.

I'm wondering why nobody disarmed him.

ETA Dealing with the decision that a parent, aunt, uncle, etc. is no longer capable of managing his or her affairs is one of the most difficult passages that most families eventually face. I've learned a lot about dementia, and about mental illness in general, in the past 10 years. No matter how well prepared you think you are, when the time comes telling Mom or Dad that you need to take over the bank accounts or take away the car keys is always painful. Someone who has become paranoid and delusional should certainly have firearms taken away or disabled. Getting a person declared as mentally incompetent by a court of law, which is necessary for government to step in, is extremely difficult (as it should be.) Families need to step in and do the right thing when government can't.

I think it's significant, and probably tragic, that none of Mr. Spooner's "adult children" have responded to questions from the media. I suspect that what has happened in that family is that Spooner got so difficult to be around with that nobody wanted to deal with his crap.

That may turn out to be totally wrong wild speculation, but I've seen it happen so many times I will not be even slightly surprised if that turns out to be the case.

[Vattel]

63. Gun ownership led to the stolen guns. Stolen guns led to the shooting death.

I am so glad every asshole in America owns guns. (sarcasm)

[slackmaster]

67. I'm not at all convinced that there were any guns stolen

Consider the source.

[Vattel]

70. good point

[obamanut2012]

71. Me either

I tend to think there weren't any stolen, which may also be why the Police didn't really do anything about the reported theft.