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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSaying 'All Lives Matter' is the new wedge issue. Now that the confederate flag is gone
the GOP needed something that would slur African americans but in a more subtle way. Black Lives Matter is about value-ing lives that traditionally were not valued. It is about equality. It is not putting one set of lives above another. Saying All Lives Matter gaslights African americans. Don't be fooled. Don't use it. And don't hesitate to call out anyone who does.
I also think the GOP do not want activists negotiating with police on an equal footing. For sure it would be hard at first. But then issues of police training, community cooperation, police pay and hiring, black on black violence would inevitably be discussed. And solutions might come about. And peace and understanding of two groups on equal footing is not what the GOP, whose wedge issues are based on race during elections, do not want.
It is the perfect GOP wedge issues. Racists understand it as baiting BLM followers. Non racists or the naïve see it as a reasonable statement of the importance of life, all the while they spread the hate meme by repeating it.
demmiblue
(36,865 posts)K&R
applegrove
(118,696 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)They kept sharing "All Lives Matter" or "Police Lives Matter" posts. And I'm quite confident most of them just didn't grasp the implications or background... they just saw the slogan and thought "well yes, that's true! All lives DO matter!" and hit like.
Since I started cluing them in the rate at which I see those things has fallen drastically.
Wounded Bear
(58,670 posts)I let them die. Nobody has approached me about my stance, so I haven't elaborated.
Good on you, though.
The dog whistle politics of the right continue unabated.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)I don't mind saying it.
yuiyoshida
(41,833 posts)On Fri Feb 26, 2016, 02:58 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
All Lives Matter
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7642864
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
GOP wedge issue
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 26, 2016, 03:00 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Okay. I get it. It's not what BLM is about, but this should be a discussion with the poster to explain why this sentiment can be offensive in context, but not alert worthy IMHO.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Poster being an a**.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stupid can't be hidden just because it's stupid.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: stupid. someone needs a little education.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Who said it was a GOP wedge issue? The person who alerted did. Doesn't sound like a rule to me. It sounds like an opinion.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)And thank you to the jurors who voted to leave my comment alone instead of stifling conversation.
yuiyoshida
(41,833 posts)I voted against you. And posted it for transparency.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,833 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)There is something I don't trust about writers who write sentences like that.
He also has an article stating that football should be abolished.
Seems to be presenting himself as the "hip white guy who knows everything".
yuiyoshida
(41,833 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)The "clever analogy" that he opens the article with is idiotic.
Do you find it odd that both of these articles "explaining" the concept of Black Lives Matter are written by young white men?
yuiyoshida
(41,833 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Very good points raised. I agree with the sentiments expressed. I do think, however, that "all lives matter" isn't necessarily an expression of racism as the snarky white guy asserted that it always was.
For instance, there is this article:
All Lives Matter: Improving the Lives of Young Boys and Men of Color
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/monique-miles/all-lives-matter-improvin_b_6785448.html
That being said, I agree that people ought to be able to embrace the concept of Black Lives Matter without seeing it as somehow being an attack on people who are not black, which it isn't. It is pointing out the obvious discrepancies that exist based on race.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Looks like you have to be careful when expressing your opinion, even if it breaks no rule.
On Fri Feb 26, 2016, 02:58 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
All Lives Matter
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7642864
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
GOP wedge issue
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 26, 2016, 03:00 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Okay. I get it. It's not what BLM is about, but this should be a discussion with the poster to explain why this sentiment can be offensive in context, but not alert worthy IMHO.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Poster being an a**.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stupid can't be hidden just because it's stupid.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: stupid. someone needs a little education.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Who said it was a GOP wedge issue? The person who alerted did. Doesn't sound like a rule to me. It sounds like an opinion.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)....in it's attempt to be politically correct, it becomes meaningless. Let's face it. Nobody, NOBODY has ever questioned whether white lives matter or not. It doesn't NEED to be said.
Black Lives Matter...makes sense. As would Muslim Lives Matter....etc...
Only those who have felt discriminated against have any need to say WE MATTER.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)I would argue that "All Lives Matter" gives equality to all races. Discrimination against a black or asian is the same as discrimination against a white person. I know it doesn't happen equal numbers but it is equally offensive.
Bonx
(2,055 posts)RichGirl
(4,119 posts)It's pretty dumb to have to say that ANY lives matter. OF COURSE all lives matter...even puppy dogs and kittens.
I don't know where you live...but I live in a state that has a racism problem. So to cancel out BLACK LIVES MATTER... and replace it with the generic ALL LIVES MATTER is just another way to put blacks in their place.
The guys who spend a beautiful Sunday marching around with automatic weapons and confederate flags....these guys...and there are many...need it in their face that BLACK LIVES MATTER! They need a plane passing over with a banner. They need someone to spray paint it on their broken down old pick up trucks!
Yes...all lives matter, but for just a short time can't we focus on the people who are made to feel like their lives don't matter.
lapfog_1
(29,205 posts)is an attempt to refute the claim and negate those that use it.
Of course all lives matter... that does not need to be said or even debated.
What BLM is about is the overwhelming statistics about the way young black people are treated in this society and what they face everyday just living in this country (racial profiling and constant harassment by law enforcement).
If you want a slogan that states something about your feelings of racial equality and a call for no discrimination, please feel free to invent one... just don't use one that sounds like BLM or shout it at someone with BLM sign or T-shirt.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Particular whites who are living in poverty. Whites who are homeless. Etc.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)...just to yell out "Hey, healthy people need money too!"
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Then yes they do
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's more like pointing out that whites are often victims of police abuse. That whites in poverty are often also ignored and/or mistreated.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Imagine that you're sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don't get any.
So you say "I should get my fair share." And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, "everyone should get their fair share." Now, that's a wonderful sentiment -- indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad's smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn't solve the problem that you still haven't gotten any!
The problem is that the statement "I should get my fair share" had an implicit "too" at the end: "I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else." But your dad's response treated your statement as though you meant "only I should get my fair share", which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that "everyone should get their fair share," while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out.[...]
[...]Just like asking dad for your fair share, the phrase "black lives matter" also has an implicit "too" at the end: it's saying that black lives should also matter. But responding to this by saying "all lives matter" is willfully going back to ignoring the problem. It's a way of dismissing the statement by falsely suggesting that it means "only black lives matter," when that is obviously not the case. And so saying "all lives matter" as a direct response to "black lives matter" is essentially saying that we should just go back to ignoring the problem.
GeekAesthete[10]
On Real Time with Bill Maher, Bill Maher expressed support of the "Black Lives Matter" phrase, arguing that "All Lives Matter" "implies that all lives are equally at risk, and they're not"
rock
(13,218 posts)So for those that disagree with you, I need to know: what lives do not matter?
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)Which is translated to mean "if you stand with BLM, you are scum that stands against our heroic police."
Response to applegrove (Original post)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
applegrove
(118,696 posts)people it targeted down? In the same way saying All Lives Matter takes away from Black Lives Matter, which is about equality under the law, and is meant as a bait in the same way. IMHO.
Response to applegrove (Reply #9)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
applegrove
(118,696 posts)to his staff this week telling them not to use it on internal boards or something. I guess my feeling is we have to fight it now. We don't agree. Vive la difference!
tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)like a fox about to enter a hen house.
applegrove
(118,696 posts)You are correct that whenever language or ideas that imply compassion or empathy come out of the GOP's mouths they should immediately be suspect.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)You can't reach the goal of the former without reaching the latter (do they never teach set theory in school any more? ).
I will say, however, that in an appropriate context, I don't mind pointing out that red lives matter, too. Not ever as some sort of "comeback" to BLM, but when it's relevant. Native Americans are also killed by police at a horrifying rate...they're another group whose lives have been historically devalued. Bit of a hot button issue for me...
applegrove
(118,696 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 26, 2016, 09:03 PM - Edit history (1)
finally have a federal government that seems to want to make the real changes that were put off for 10 years under Harper. Peoples coming into their own where rights are concerned. Important stuff and a threat to the right in both Canada and the USA. There is about to be a public inquiry into missing and murdered aboriginal women. The Liberals are on the ball. Thank god.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)All Lives Matter can be interpreted as meaning that all lives are equal. Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere.
yuiyoshida
(41,833 posts)Imagine that you wake up late one night to the sound of your home being burglarized. Through the crack in your bedroom door, you see several figures hauling out your television, computers and nice china to their getaway car parked outside.
Thinking quickly, you dial 911 on your iPhone.
911, whats your emergency?
Help! you whisper. My home is being robbed!
Stay where you are, Miss, the other voice assures you. Well look into it.
Thank you, you whisper. My address is
Woah, Maam, the voice on the other end says. Why are you bringing addresses into this?
Read more at http://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/problem-saying-all-lives-matter#XdkDoMuxQQO95E2G.99
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I know this young white dude thinks he is being clever, but that analogy is completely idiotic.
MH1
(17,600 posts)You are at a restaurant with a group of friends. Everyone has been served their food except you. After a reasonable amount of time, you look around and say something like, "hmm, where's my food? I need food". Your friends pipe up and say "we ALL need food."
Doesn't make much sense, does it? It wouldn't happen that way.
The reason this is analogous to the slogan "Black Lives Matter" is this: whites already receive a level of justice in this country, that is generally denied to blacks, generally along racial lines. Of course, if you don't believe that statement, you don't get the analogy, and probably have trouble with why "All lives matter" is problematic as a retort to "Black lives matter".
When someone retorts to "Black lives matter" with "All lives matter", they are indicating a failure to grasp the plight of African Americans in the justice system in this country. Whether it is ignorance or racism, in an individual case, is often debatable, IMO. However I have no doubt that there is a large swath of of racism in this country, and that many of the retorts do rise from racism. On the other hand, there is also vast ignorance and insensitivity to the problem, which to me doesn't rise to racism - these folks can be enlightened. So I don't think saying "All lives matter" is necessarily racist, but the promotion of that as a tactic, is racist.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Clearly justice is meted out differently based on race in this country and black people (along with many other people of color) have to deal with issues that white people generally don't face. The frustration of living in a society where it feels like black lives do not matter understandably would lead to a movement to spread the idea that black lives do matter.
That being said, the 911 phone call analogy is stupid and not at all illustrative.
I do think that there are some people who take "BLM" to mean that non-black lives don't matter and have the knee-jerk "all lives matter" response and thus totally miss the point. However, I think there are other people (of all races) who promote the idea that all lives matter to try to emphasize the shared humanity of all people in a positive way (incorporating the same message as many in the BLM movement).
I took issue with this particular article because, first of all, I think it's annoying for a young white guy to explain what the BLM movement is about in a fairly snarky and patronizing way, and also, as I mentioned, because I think the analogy is quite poor, to put it mildly.
Your analogy is definitely better.
MH1
(17,600 posts)I didn't come up with myself, just saw it and thought it worked well.
There are several of these analogies floating around, and I just latched on to that one as probably the best and easiest for most people to understand.
I don't think the 911 call analogy that I have heard is that stupid though. (You call 911 to tell them your house is on fire so they'll send the fire dept, and they respond with "all houses matter" . The point is, the situation described in the analogy is ridiculous. It is ridiculous because it makes no sense, that's not how it would happen - just like the restaurant analogy. You call 911 because you have a problem; it is not appropriate (and wouldn't happen) to get a response that everyone else has problems, too. No, they dispatch the organization that should be able to help with your problem. When people are saying "black lives matter" it is a call of distress - to respond with "all lives matter" just ignores the situation of distress.
I didn't go to the article you were referring to, but I would agree that the analogy posted from the article is a little harder to follow, and therefore "stupid" in the sense that it doesn't effectively get the point across. I had to re-read it and scratch my head to figure it out, and I already know what the plot is supposed to be. So, a swing and a miss, I'd say. And yeah, a young white guy has no room to be snarky and patronizing about an issue like this.
And I definitely agree we shouldn't be broad-brushing all uses of "all lives matter" as racism. Some is racism, some is ignorance, some is (as you point out) trying to promote a more noble notion. I would however, say that for the more noble, context matters, and when it isn't misinterpreted as racism or ignorance, it might accurately be perceived as naive. But then, most idealism is at least a little naive, and there is still a place for it. Sometimes we have to dream of things how they aren't, so we know what we are trying to achieve.