My French friend and I were talking about the state of the American social/political fabric today...

[islandmkl]

and I said that I thought America was at, or at least approaching, a..no, THE...crossroads of civic unrest/social reaction not seen since the Viet Nam war days...the Right Wing cultural devolution, the imbalance of income and wealth and all the reasons for it, the neutering and diminishing of the great American middle class, the general sense of not only powerlessness but also of lack of any sign of change on the horizon, and more so, the divisions being cleaved between citizens of differing views who almost all share the same economic situations...

all these things, and more, are leading us toward some upheaval...not necessarily violent, but I wouldn't rule that out...

people of all persuasions are tired and worn out being used as pawns in a corporate game that they cannot easily affect through 'legitimate' channels (like elections)...tired of being manipulated by a corporate media machine that keeps them clashing with each other over perceived differences that are fomented by the power structure to keep their focus away from the theft of the nation...looking for someone to blame other than the real culprits, thus finding only other facets of themselves...

at some point, it will crack, boil over, erupt, whatever...we haven't had a hard situation like this, not when things were going badly for so many, socially, culturally, financially, politically since the 1920's and 30', when many people openly questioned whether this 'democracy/republic' was actually the right way to operate...and of course the Civil War was a mere 150+ years ago...and in many, many respects we haven't healed THAT chasm...

my friend is a 70-year old French woman, post-WWII de Gaulle, true French Republican, sometimes socialist, sometimes conservative (because those two segments have been fairly fluid during her life) who is a naturalized American....anyway, her take on the whole conversation:

"But...America is such a young country. Of course you will have these things. It is part of a country growing."

we tend to think we have come such a long way since our own Revolution...but maybe we have never had to really make a change in the way things go...or maybe it is better said that we haven't MADE such a change...

[RKP5637]

1. The 2016 election will prove very interesting as a turning point. Millions upon millions of

Americans are finally waking up.

[840high]

3. I think so and hope so.

[rogerashton]

2. We are not a young country.

We have the oldest constitution still in effect. France's comes from about 1968, if I am not mistaken.

[babylonsister]

4. Really? France is way older than us. Google it! nt

[rogerashton]

8. The French Republic dates from 1789

same as our constitution, but their current Republic, the fifth, dates from 1958. You may say that they have an older culture -- supposing that the US has any culture at all -- but the comment was about political systems, and ours is no younger, at best, than that of France.

[awoke_in_2003]

7. That does not make us an old country...

England has at least 700 years on us.

[rogerashton]

9. Again, the focus is political systems

The current British political system dates at most from 1911,

The Parliament Act 1911 effectively abolished the power of the House of Lords to reject legislation,

Although one could make a case that the 1999 reform of the House of Lords created yet a new constitution for the UK.

Probably the earliest "countries" still in existence are Iran (Persia), Greece, and China. Greece was not independent until the 19th century, though; China was dominated by the Manchu until 1911, and in Iran -- according to a history I read last year -- the modern Shiite hierarchy dates from the 19th century, though the current system there dates to 1979.

My point was: the smug comment that "Oh, the United States is a young country" was just silly. In the relevant sense, our political system has evolved continuously over a longer period than those of most, if not all, other countries, so you cannot blame the current chaos on inexperience.

[Martin Eden]

5. We appear to be devolving, not evolving

If our history is a "Great Experiment in Democracy" then we are much further from success than when I was born in 1957. Popular support for the likes of Donald Trump takes us closer to 1933 Germany than 1965 America when Civil Rights legislation was signed into law.

I don't know what the future has in store, but it looks like we're not going to have the kind of peaceful political revolution we need. My intuition tells me things will get much worse before they get better, and I fear the American people lack the necessary cooperative skills and spirit to build something better from the ashes of whatever calamity is in store for us.

The representative democracy engineered by our nation's Founders was premised on the informed consent of the governed, and it cannot succeed when large swaths of the citizenry is misinformed and/or disengaged. The 2014 midterms had 36.4% voter turnout, and the result of that election demonstrates how effectively the Powers That Be have brainwashed the public into voting against their own interests. The American people are misinformed and bitterly divided because the Oligarchy in its efforts to gain an ever greater share of wealth and power has steadily and deliberately corrupted our democracy and eroded the capacity of the citizenry to stand up and stand together.

A House divided against itself cannot stand, and eventually the whole thing comes crashing down.

It is up to us to pick ourselves up and build a better future, but it's becoming more and more difficult to hold on to optimism and hope. My generation has failed. It will be up to America's youth to lead the way forward, and therein lies a glimmer of hope.

[UTUSN]

6. Yip, not only Europeans but many others have seen it all and done it all. n/t