Christian homeschoolers cry discrimination after trade schools ask for proof they learned something

[SecularMotion]

Homeschoolers says it’s unfair that they must prove they’ve obtained high school-level academic skills to become a police officer or enter trade school.

The Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) is challenging requirements by cosmetology and vocational schools that incoming students show a high school diploma or pass a GED exam to gain admittance.

“A homeschool graduate is accepted into a cosmetology or vocational school — but then, like a bolt from above, the admissions office reverses course,” said William Estrada, HSLDA director of federal relations. “Officials tell the applicant that the school cannot accept homeschoolers.”

The Christian legal advocacy group has handled numerous calls from homeschooled young adults who say they were turned away from trade schools or police departments because they had not passed a General Educational Development exam — which they say graduates of traditional high schools are not required to do.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/christian-homeschoolers-cry-discrimination-after-trade-schools-ask-for-proof-they-learned-something/

[DetlefK]

1. Employers dare to ask for certificates! For others than those your friends and family made for you!

[Perseus]

15. When done right, homeschooling is very effective and they DO get a certificate

I have plenty of experience with Home School, granted, not "Christian Home School", and can't speak for the specifics of those programs these kids participated in, but for those of you who seem to be making negative assumptions about home school, those programs do work very well when done right, kids do get a certificate as they too have to present the appropriate exams, and requirements.

It would be interesting to find out the details about the programs these kids went to...I admit that I have not read the article on the link.

I know many kids who, because of sports, had to do home school and they went to college with sports scholarships and graduated with honors, top of their class. These were not American football/basketball players where they are famous for relaxing college requirements.

[hobbit709]

16. The operative words are right here: "The Christian legal advocacy group "

[progree]

17. The operative words are "when done right"

They are merely being asked to demonstrate that, by passing a GED.

[NBachers]

31. I like the operative words "Like a Bolt from Above!"

[redwitch]

46. maybe God sent it? nt

[Iggo]

86. That's not even a dog whistle. That's like...a regular whistle.

[dixiegrrrrl]

43. "they say graduates of traditional high schools are not required to take GED".

Of course they are not required, they are HS Graduates!

Good lord and furry kittens, their argument alone displays the problem.

[Ms. Yertle]

75. One of my friends

homeschooled her two daughters, and they did not take the GED. When a college administrator's office asked about the GED, my friend's reply was along the lines of "the GED is for dummies. My daughter is not a dummy." Turned it down cold, and in the most insulting way she could. Bottom line, the girls both got in to college, both graduated, both hold professional jobs.

Those rules are pretty much arbitrary, and negotiable.

[progree]

85. Oh, I don't doubt that there are great homeschooled students, and that there are lousy high schools

where many students are just socially promoted through

[progree]

87. I might add that if someone said they are homeschooled and that's that and

haughtily declared that "the GED is for dummies", I wouldn't hire them with that superior, snotty attitude. For a job where a high school diploma or equivalent is a reasonable requirement, the mere declaration that one is home-schooled would not be enough for me, particularly in any job where the public health and safety is in any way at all affected.

[font color = blue]>>my friend's reply was along the lines of "the GED is for dummies. My daughter is not a dummy." Turned it down cold, and in the most insulting way she could.<<[/font]

[Ms. Yertle]

90. My friend does have a snotty attitude

It's a feature, not a bug.

This wasn't about hiring her, it was about college admission for her daughter, who had taken the ACT, SAT. or both. She had also attended a year of community college. There was no question that she was absolutely prepared for college.

College admission is totally different from an employment situation, where attitude and "fit" have to be considered.

[progree]

91. I wouldn't admit her to a college either. They look at more than grades you know

[font color = red]ON EDIT:[/font]Well, on the other hand, it was the mother who was being a snot rag, not the student being considered for admission.

Of course I'd have to know more of the dialog that took place before, maybe the mother was justified...

[Ms. Yertle]

95. If bad attitudes

ever become automatic DQs, colleges will be mighty empty. (And sororities, frats, and a lot of athletic teams would be non-existent.)

[progree]

98. I edited my #91 a moment ago

[Ms. Yertle]

102. I appreciate the edit

And, your original reaction may explain why my friend has almost always had problem in her employment situations (in spite of being a very intelligent and talented person.)

[Skittles]

159. your friend sounds like a fucking snob

[ToxMarz]

58. Also the article says both of these cases the applicants had also graduated from State Universities

So I think it would be clear they met the GED requirements. There should be some room for common sense, or use of an equal or, in this case, greater measure.

[OregonBlue]

70. Oops. I missed that part and I agree with the home schoolers. If they have already graduated from

a public university, they are qualified to enter a trade school or the police force. I guess I can see the trade school's point but this seems a little silly.

[lumberjack_jeff]

124. So after graduating from college, they went to police and cosmetology school?

Maybe they should have opted for the GED instead.

[ToxMarz]

126. Many police departments require some college or even associates degree

How far you advance and how quickly can depend on college education. I don't know about cosmetology.

PS. There are a lot of unemployed PHDs, engineers, lawyers, etc these days, and how much do teachers make anymore. Adjunct professor anyone? They would probably have been better with just a GED as well I guess. The Donald loves the uneducated, and they love him.

[lumberjack_jeff]

137. If "we" want people educated, then "we" are going to have to pay for it.

If my education isn't a valid investment and is in fact a subsidy to my employer, it's not a personal asset - regardless of its value to society or my boss.

[OregonBlue]

69. But apparently these "home schoolers" just want these schools and police forces to take

their word for it. We have no idea if they learned anything except the bible and that does not qualify you for anything other than a divinity school. I assume most divinity schools won't take someone who can't prove they have a diploma or GED. Just more Christian hand wringing.

[yeoman6987]

74. They graduated from state colleges. Isn't that enough for you?

[OregonBlue]

114. Yes. I read the whole article and then posted an OOPS. If they have already graduated from a public

university, they should not need anything more. You are correct.

[yeoman6987]

121. I do the same thing from time to time. Have a great day!!!!

[Freddie]

71. Home school requirements vary by state

Some are very stringent that students pass certain competencies, others not so much. I'm guessing these schools are located in states where you can "graduate" HS if God says it's ok.

[yeoman6987]

72. I agree. I am on the admissions board of a university

And homeschoolers can be very good and have proof of such. I think the problem with this case is they accepted the student and then wanted more information. The schools should ask before a decision is made.

[FBaggins]

172. Did you mean "certificates" like the college degrees that the kids involved in the story had?

Or perhaps reeding comprehension among public-school students ain't so goodly either?

[DetlefK]

173. It's not that unheard off for employers to ask for school-grades from way back.

They want to know what kind of student you have been through the years, whether there was a suspicious jump or dip in your grades...

[FBaggins]

174. That isn't the case here

Obviously... since they would accept a GED.

These are straightforward examples of discrimination. Similar cases in the past have been easy wins for homeschoolers.

[DetlefK]

175. Depends on the employer.

I've seen 2 or 3 cases of REALLY high-end employers asking for this kind of documentation. Average companies don't bother with that.

[FBaggins]

176. You were the first reply. Did you read the article?

It has nothing to do with high-end employers looking at everything to differentiate between outstanding applicants.

[DetlefK]

182. I did read it. As I said, some employers demand those certificates. It's not unheard of.

And I would expect that people seeking a position as a public official (police...) are more thoroughly vetted than at an average company.

[oberliner]

181. They have college degrees

That ought to be enough.

[retrowire]

2. but all i did was play video games while my parents fought!

its not fiarrrr

[FSogol]

32. And read the Holee Bye-Ball

[hobbit709]

3. "which they say graduates of traditional high schools are not required to do."

Of course not. If you graduated from a certified school you have a diploma to prove you actually learned something.

And a GED demands that you know some real science and math as opposed to a fairy tale version.

[salin]

10. And most states require passing a graduation exam

of basic skills. Many states allow opting out of the state testing program for home schooled students.

[phylny]

11. Oh my goodness, yes.

I just met someone whose spouse is going to teach at Liberty University's medical school.

My reaction (in my head): They teach people to be doctors who believe the earth is 6,000 years old and humans lived with dinosaurs?

[Fuddnik]

49. I have a cousin who graduated Bob Jones University, and couldn't get into a Veterinary School.

Couldn't grasp biology.

[Ms. Yertle]

78. The same could probably be said

for a good many graduates of other universities. Vet school is very selective.

[3catwoman3]

113. Maybe they are going to specialize in...

...faith healing?

[1monster]

64. If you are a graduate from a certified school, you've already taken many exams,

generally state-mandated, as well as school district-mandated tests. Kids in today's schools take an average of six high stakes exams per year. One simply does not graduate (or move on to the next grade level) w/o passing those tests.

[Ms. Yertle]

77. A high school diploma proves nothing of the sort.

A lot of public schools are not just failing, they have failed. Many public schools are cesspools of crime, violence, and apathy, and even the brightest students learn far less than they should. A diploma from such a school doesn't mean that they can read, write coherent sentences, do math at any level, or that they know any history or science.

I have known a lot of homeschooled kids, and all that I have known have been successful. Can't say the same for all the high school graduates I know.

[hatrack]

4. Gosh, it's as if employers had "sincerely held beliefs" that new hires should know something . . . .

[Jerry442]

5. Hee hee. Good one. NT

[dembotoz]

6. wow hatrack...you said it much better than what i had to offer

[Fritz Walter]

13. You win the Internets this morning!

I would just add a pithy comment about "Chemtrails I" and "Creationism II" not being bona fide science classes, but words like pithy and bona fide would be lost on faculty and students of Home Schools.

[Scuba]

7. I would think quoting a couple Bible verses should equate to real knowledge, shouldn't it?

[rpannier]

9. Earth is 6,000 years old

Which is interesting, since the world has been 6,000 years old for over 100 years
Scratch everything after interesting,

and....
Oh... Noah built an ark that housed 2 of every animal, including velociraptors (the vegan kind) and whales, because Noah had a swimming pool

and... just in case, for extra credit
the planets and sun travel around the earth

Do you think I passed

[Scuba]

12. Barely a C-. You forgot about the talking snake and the guy who lived in a whale.

[FSogol]

34. Don't forget the bible also includes a talking donkey (just like in Shrek!):

Numbers 22:28

And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto you, that you have smitten me these three times?

[ProfessorGAC]

38. Well, To Be Fair, He Didn't Live In The Whale

He was just visiting.

[rpannier]

44. I heard his roomies

were Geppetto and Pinocchio

[Scuba]

53. This post helps me understand why I can't find a kidnapper dressed as a fox in the Bible!

I've gotten these stories mixed up!

[FSogol]

65. So, it was some form of Whalebnb? n/t

[Thor_MN]

151. Mistranslation:

It was originally a concert, in a sea mammal shaped ampitheater.

Sabbath, Sabbath, Sabbath!! Live!! In the Whale!! Jonah!! You'll pay for the whole seat, but will only use the edge!!!

[Fuddnik]

50. Of course snakes can talk.

Haven't you watched the Republican debates?

[Scuba]

51. Snort!

[A Simple Game]

14. Wayt a minute, I thot the Earth was 10,000 years old.

Dam this science thing is cunfusing!

[DetlefK]

21. Noah built in an aquarium into the Ark to save the whales?

Was he afraid they would drown?


It's almost as if this story was written by Bronze-Age shepherd desert-dwellers.

[hobbit709]

25. As I call it. The heat induced hallucinations of a bunch of itinerant sheep herders.

[Fuddnik]

52. Of course he did.

Then he opened Sea World.

[jonks2746]

156. Of course!

Just ask the GOP.

[oberliner]

180. They both graduated from college

Presumably they got some real knowledge having attended and graduated from state universities.

[Ilsa]

8. Most high schoolers must pass state-mandated tests

to prove they've learndd something. Some of those tests are pretty difficult.

High school proponents are frequently claiming their kids do better in college. Let them prove it by passing the same tests.

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. Completely depends upon the state.

Some states require standardized testing and some do not. The laws vary widely!

[safeinOhio]

18. Don't want to take an SAT

to get into Harvard either.

[mopinko]

29. harvard has a strong admissions preference for homeschooler and

iirc, accepts a portfolio of work. they have found them to be excellent candidates due to their proven ability to work on their own, and to "step up to the plate"

[fasttense]

48. Only if those home schoolers can demonstrate unique achievements

Like summer college courses completed or awards from reputable organizations like science fair achievements (along with high SAT). So just being home schooled is not enough.

[mopinko]

62. i didnt say it was. i didnt say harvard takes all homeschoolers.

and the majority of homeschoolers can easily demonstrate unique achievements. it is what homeschool is about.

[fasttense]

73. I don't know what home schoolers you know,

but the ones I know have no achievements to their names. They barely get an 17 composite on their ACTs. And I will guarantee you that almost none of them did anything with science, let alone win awards. But most of them down here in the South don't believe in most science theories anyway archaeology, ecology (admittedly an interdisciplinary field) and evolution being the most offensive to them.

No the home schoolers I've known here in the South have been children who fail in high school so their parents take them on because the school system wont, or they are Christians being protected from the nastiness of the main stream culture.

I'm glad there is the option of home schooling but many use it to avoid educating their children.

[mopinko]

81. well the research does not support your anecdotes.

i know many, because i did it myself for 8 years. most here in chicago take advantage of the many, many opportunities for their kids to take high quality classes from respected institutions. the enrichment classes that are offered for gifted kids from the universities here are full of homeschoolers.
my kids did saturday classes at northwestern. tho they do require a "resume" of some sort, they always take the homeschool kids that come to them. they have proven to these serious educators that they can handle the work.
they also did a summer program with national lewis, which is a teacher's college. they excelled.

my youngest actually went to public school starting in 1st grade. 2nd youngest started in second. but they were raised in a school, so they had an enormous head start over the other students. their teachers all saw them for the bright, well rounded kids they were, and i received a great deal of praise.

my oldest, who started the whole thing, is now working on a phd in theoretical math. even tho he exceeded my math knowledge (1 semester of calculus in college) at about age 10, i made sure that he got outside classes in math. plus, he gained such a solid grounding in numbers and how they worked that he taught himself a great deal.

research into the outcomes for homeschoolers in higher ed settings shows that most outpace their traditionally schooled peers.

so, please add that to your anecdotal information, and realize that your view is prejudiced.

[fasttense]

92. And your view is NOT prejudice?

Sounds like your views are just as anecdotal as you claim mine are.

Let's face it all home schoolers are NOT geniuses and successful. A lot of them are children of parents avoiding the greater society and knowledge of it.

[mopinko]

93. some are, some arent.

like i said, research into outcomes of homeschooler who go on to higher ed shows that they shine.

[fasttense]

100. Well....then..... where are your links????? n/t

[Atman]

110. I don't believe you. I'd also like to see something to back that up.

Home schooled kids tend to just stay in church and then home school their own kids that dinosaurs rode on the ark with Noah, and that snakes could talk. Unless I'm mistaken. You're welcome to show me the evidence that home schooled kids do better when it comes to higher education.

[Ms. Yertle]

123. Um, no

Just, no.

[mopinko]

127. homeschool goes far beyond the fundies.

there are myriad reasons people make that choice.
i did this research over a decade ago. i am not going to do it again for you.
but feel free to call me a liar, when you dont even know the basic facts of a situation that i lived for almost a decade.

[fasttense]

161. So.. where are your links to support your theory? n/t

[Rex]

146. 1% to 2% of home schoolers make it into Ivy League schools.

It is 1% at MIT. What we see here is confirmation bias by parents of home shoolers going against reality. Very few students that make it into hard colleges are home schooled. The ones that you are being told stories about were already AP students with or without public education. Their parents are affluent (80% are white) and usually hold dual citizenship in other countries.

IOW, a tiny amount of homeschooled students go to college and succeed. These stories of success despite being home schooled are touching, but that is what most of them are.

[fasttense]

162. Thank you for some solid data. n/t

[Rex]

164. NP. Almost 70% of students that complete HS enroll in college.

"The percentage of high school dropouts among 16- through 24-year-olds declined from 10.9 percent in 2000 to 6.8 percent in 2013 (source). Reflecting the overall decline in the dropout rate between 2000 and 2013, the rates also declined for Whites, Blacks, and Hispanics (source) .

The percentage of students enrolling in college in the fall immediately following high school completion was 65.9 percent in 2013 (source)."

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372


The dropout rate is going down too, so people saying public schools are crappy, no they are solid ways to make it into college. I am not trying to set public schools up on a pedestal, but they have a lot higher success rate then home schoolers. Homeschooling is a first world problem imo.

[fasttense]

165. Thanks for the information. n/t

[sense]

194. And what percentage of public schooled children

make it into the Ivy League?

[FBaggins]

183. Ironically... you need the same lesson that your imagined homeschoolers require

Just because you believe something... doesn't make it true.

There have been lots of studies that have demonstrated that homeschooled students score higher on SAT/ACT tests, have higher GPAs and graduation rates, and are more likely to attend college. That argument is long since over.

The argument that remains (and was always more valid) is whether (or to what extent) homeschool out-performance remains after you adjust for family income, parents' education and marital status, etc.

[tnvoter]

112. ahh-- there's a catch, you're referring only to those "who go on to higher ed..."

The fact is, most home schoolers, do NOT "go on to higher ed..." What is the percentage of homeschoolers go on to higher ed compared to normal schoolers who do so?

Unless your "research" compares homeschoolers "who go on to higher ed" against normal schoolers "who go on to higher ed", you are comparing apples to oranges and hoping no one will notice our sleight.

Using your personal experience to draw a broad conclusion about the success of homeschooling across the board is foolish. And trying to pass off highly-biased "research" is dishonest.

[Atman]

115. I don't understand how my niece is qualified to teach five children, when she has a music degree.

She's a violin player. She has no educational background, yet she has taken on the responsibility of educating five children. Her background is a music degree from community college in Florida, and she is a hard-core Southern Baptist. Her basis for educating her kids is the Bible. It makes no sense to me. How is this legal?

[mopinko]

132. ask the supreme court.

but states have a right to set their own rules and many do.
there are plenty of canned curricula available, and many churches help provide them. they are likely no better than the textbooks in texas, but there you have it.

[mopinko]

129. my my. another one calling me a liar.

true, kids who dont go to college are not part of the stats. they are self selected. but they are also not part of the question. the question is how do they do when they go to college. the fact that harvard has a strong bias FOR admitting homeschoolers should give you a clue.

i did my research over 2 decades ago, including conversations with some of the top education theorist in the country. i am not using my "personal experience" to draw conclusions. i am using all the things that i learned along the way.

feel free to check into if you are so concerned. i have no desire to revisit it for your benefit. i am expressing my opinion and sharing my experience.

[fasttense]

163. Again, you fail to provide links.

You can say anything about home schoolers that you want but when you provide no data or links, your argument is not supported. By the way there are a lot of links about this Harvard thing with home schoolers. It took only a few seconds to find it. You too can do it.

You don't believe me when I tell you how poorly home schoolers do around here, why should we automatically believe you when you say otherwise? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

By the way, do you think you are so insignificant that you don't capitalize your I when referring to yourself or starting a sentence? (There is a catty comment I can insert here but I'm using a lot of self restraint to avoid being rude.)

But really this writing with a lower case I and start of a sentence is very annoying and difficult to read.

[Atman]

106. My niece home schools five kids...with a music education.

She is a hard-core Southern Baptist. She home-schools the kids because the public schools teach them crazy science nonsense and stuff. She wants them schooled on the Bible. She has no education background. Sadly, her parents were Southern Baptists, but "got better." They raised the kids on the Bible. Only Christian music, every picture in the house had a bible verse on it. Now they seriously regret their decision, as all three of their children are hard-core religious nuts, but Mom and Dad have moved on. It's very sad to see. My niece's kids are brain-dead to the real world. All they know is Jesus.

[mopinko]

130. plenty of kids come out of public schools brain dead.

and even plain dead, suicides from the treatment they got there.

[Atman]

133. Plenty more come out just fine.

I'm the product of public school education. Both of our kids are, too, and they're both doing extremely well. One has a BS degree living in Brooklyn, working on an original series for Netflix. The other is a software developer for a firm in Austin. The latter graduated HS six months early, the former dropped out, then got his GED and got his Bachelors. I don't buy into the bullshit that public schools do horrible things to kids. It's much more about parental involvement. Both my wife and I were school volunteers, and my wife was President of the PTA. If you get/stay involved, outcomes are much better.

[mopinko]

138. "plenty"

is a pretty meaningless descriptor for what the vast majority of the population does.
and bullshit about what happens in public schools? tell that to the parents of kids who get bullied.

[Atman]

144. Wait, what? So now this is about bullying?

My kids were total nerds. Never had a bullying problem. As I stated, my wife and I were very involved. Maybe you should have been an involved parent. Obviously, no one is there to bully your kids if you sequester them in your living room.

[mopinko]

145. how much more involved can you be than homeschooling.

but when they did go to public school, we were very involved.

but you seem to be implying that kids who are mangled by the system have their parents to blame. wut?

[Lonusca]

149. "Maybe you should have been an involved parent"

You think her kids were bullied because she wasn't involved enough?

[Atman]

150. No, I'm just guessing.

I didn't pull my kids out of public school because other kids were mean to them. I grew up in public schools. My kids grew up in public schools. I think they call this "helicopter parenting" these days. Lets kids grow up, let them deal with life situations.

Someone will now say "You like bullying!" I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that parents today are hyper-protective. To the point of not allowing our kids to attend public schools, because some other kid might hurt their feelings!

So we breed generations of kids who are unable to deal with real life. Life isn't fair. People will be mean. We do no favors to our kids by sequestering them in protective enclaves and happy niceness. Get a job in the corporate world...everyone doesn't kiss your ass and tell you they love you! Life is not a cake walk. Why are we telling our kids it's all fun and games?

[Lonusca]

178. I actually mostly agree with you

There are way too may kids out there with zero coping skills for when they hit the real world. I've seen some of the reports from my college alma mater and cringe

However - "because some other kid might hurt their feelings" is not what I am talking about. I'm talking about bullying. The kind that drives kids to suicide, if you have read the news lately.

[Atman]

96. Given your spelling, punctuation and capitilzation, you don't instill a lot of confidence.

Oh, and how on Earth can you claim your view is not prejudiced? That makes no sense, given that you're a proponent of home schooling. Seems like a built-in prejudice right there.

[mopinko]

101. there is research.

and my grammar has nothing to do with it. it evolved after my kids were grown. i went through the catholic education system, and am well schooled in the rules. aside from not using superfluous apostrophes, my spelling is actually quite good.

do you really think i would embark on something as important as educating my kids without researching the issues and coming to an informed decision?
i can promise you that i know more than most anyone on this thread.
is it prejudice to come to an informed decision? no.

[Atman]

107. It is prejudiced to claim you're not prejucided...

...when clearly you are. You home school your kids, you believe you're right, so you are obviously very prejudiced toward home schooling. I don't believe that is very difficult to understand. Nor do I believe it is very difficult to hit the shift key at the start of a sentence, or when typing a proper name. But I'm funny that way. Are you teaching your kids that this stuff doesn't matter? Good luck on their first cover letter and résumé!

[mopinko]

131. my kids are grown and gone on to college.

they are doing fine. i am hardly the only one who uses no caps on the interwebs. like i said, i know all the rules, i just choose not to use them in the age of lol and rofl.

i tend to believe the recent report that those who stoop to this argument are jerks. same with people who call those they do not know liars.

[Atman]

134. mo, we've both been on DU for a very long time.

frankly, this kind of surprises me. Not what I expected to be reading from you, but no big deal. still friends.

[rockfordfile]

154. I agree with you

[Marrah_G]

152. There are a couple of very different types of homeschooling

I think the ones that have the most issues when it comes to further education are the very popular "religious homeschooling".

I know liberal progressive moms here in new England who's children exceed educationally due to their parent's efforts.

[mopinko]

153. thank you. tho to be honest

a lot of those religious homeschoolers get a fantastic education, too.
this broad brush is very disturbing.

[fasttense]

195. And you have NO research for your little anecdote either. n/t

[sense]

193. We homeschooled for academic reasons.

Public and many private schools are so dumbed down they could pass for day care. My eldest entered college speaking 5 languages, with more than two years of college credits including all the math, science and writing courses he could fit in. He played on the local high school tennis team, earned a black belt in Karate and mentored others in the sport. He was accepted to 7 universities out of the ten he applied to.

The home schoolers you know do not look anything like my son's peers. Yes, I've also met some of the other type and it is unfortunate that many lack any understanding of science and the real world.

[Rex]

141. Not true, homeschoolers make up less then 2% of harvard student population.

They are only 1% at MIT.

[mopinko]

143. well, since they are a small percentage of the population,

that is a meaningless stat.

[Rex]

147. Not to a college lol.

Out of 100 applications, maybe 1 or 2 make it into college each year. That is far less then students coming from public schools.

[mopinko]

160. if 1 in a 1000 are homeschooled?

stats. its a thing.

[Rex]

166. Well like I said upthread, I am not pushing public schools they have massive problems.

The lady about to take over the Board of Education in Texas is religiously insane. My point is 70% of HS students go off to college, that number is about 5% for home schooled children. Maybe most of them make it, whereas many HS students drop out of college after their first year. Always some trade offs.

[Bettie]

19. My brother and SIL homeschooled their kids

their only textbook is the bible.

Now, they are "home college" schooling their kids with the assumption that as girls, they really only need to know how to be wives and mothers and take care of a home.

But, they did get a fancy home-printed diploma.

I feel so sorry for those girls.

[hatrack]

24. Will they be "home employing" them post-graduation?

[Bettie]

30. They will be marrying "mature" men

from their church.

We've only seen them a handful of times, since they generally don't even associate with people who are not from their church.

The girls aren't even allowed to speak to grocery store clerks, because they might be "tainted" by them.

[hatrack]

55. "Paging Rev. Jones, Rev. Jim Jones . . . . "

Fearful, sniveling little control freaks. Poor kids.

[AlbertCat]

56. since they generally don't even associate with people who are not from their church.

So.... it's a cult.

The 1st step of a cult is isolation.

[Bettie]

76. Yeah, that's where I am too

I'm also really icked out by the idea that young women can't marry young men, that they need "mature" men to train them to be good wives.

The sad thing is that before they joined this church, my SIL was a fun and decent person. Now, she's just another religious nutjob.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

135. so do the men in this church wait to marry till they are mature?

[Bettie]

157. I'm not clear on that,

SIL is rather evasive when she has discussed this.

I doubt it though. She does say that young men are mature enough to marry, but that young women need a "firm hand".

Funny from someone who is precisely the age of her husband (my brother). They were born on the same day.

She also thinks that Ted Cruz has the perfect vision for our country, so I'm thinking her sanity has taken a hit too.

[sofa king]

42. They're training for their Mrs. degrees.

[rockfordfile]

155. It seems that a lot of these home-schooled kids come from religious nutjobs

[TreasonousBastard]

20. OK, the dumbest part of it was suggesting a parent-issued diploma was OK, but...

there is this case of two women whose application to be police officers was denied, even though they were college graduates-- that they were homeschooled and missed the GED seemed to be more important.

The article didn't mention whether they graduated from accredited colleges or some religious diploma mill.

At any rate, cosmetology schools seem to be at the forefront of all this, so make any jokes you want.

You may also feel free to joke about making cops less educated than they now are.

[swwallace81]

22. I've always wondered....

Why don't they "home college"?

[B Calm]

27. I think some graduated from Trump University.

[Captain Stern]

23. Something's missing from this story.

The article says:

"The HSLDA is representing two candidates who Christian legal advocates say were turned away from the Ithaca, New York, Police Department because they had not earned high school diplomas or the equivalent — even though both went on to graduate from state colleges."

Wouldn't these people have had to present proof of HS graduation to get into the state colleges?

[mopinko]

33. many take the sat or act instead.

a far better measure than the ged.

[Pacifist Patriot]

35. No, not necessarily.

The growth of homeschooling has lead a lot of colleges and universities to allow acceptance of home educated students based on other criteria. Some schools have admissions officers who specialize in evaluating home educated applicants for acceptance.

[Nevernose]

40. Community colleges don't always require a HS diploma

In fact, my kid was taking classes at ours before she ever graduated high school.

[Pacifist Patriot]

89. Dual enrollment. Excellent point!

[salin]

60. Or shouldn't those college (from state colleges) diplomas supercede the need for a GED?

Not necessarily. If standardized test scores are high enough - esp SAT or ACT some schools will accept based on those. Some community colleges use a standardized placement test such as the
(I think) 'Accuplacer' to determine if the student has the requisite skills. Then the student can matriculate through the Community college to a four year college.

[SharonAnn]

148. I would say if they graduated from an accredited college, then HS status may not matter.

[Odin2005]

26. Reality bites.

[mopinko]

28. did anybody read the link? one plaintiff had a bachelors and the other had

earned an emt, and they were being asked to take the ged.

lots of homeschooler do take the ged. many of the college bound take the sat or act instead, a far better measure of what they have learned. many colleges accept portfolios of their work. few homeschooler expect to get into any sort of high ed without proving it one way or another.

hsdla fights for all homeschooler, christian or not, but the legal right to homeschool was originally upheld in the supreme court in a case where the plaintiff claimed a religious reason for doing so. it has since been upheld in general in many state supreme court.

this headline does not fit the story. i knew this would hit here, i have been arguing on fb for 2 days.

[Pacifist Patriot]

41. I don't think many did.

It doesn't help there are so many misconceptions about home education that abound.

When I mentioned I was homeschooling my children on DU about ten years ago, I got my head handed to me. I was an "elitist" stealing "seat money" from other school children and essentially called a child abuser. Not everyone was that nasty, but I don't recall a single person expressing interest in why I was homeschooling them at the time.

Even though I know it was best for my family, I still feel like I have to justify our decision by pointing out my children's subsequent successes in high school and university. I shouldn't have to do that.

[mopinko]

45. i hear ya. me too.

my son is now working on a phd in theoretical math after graduating first in his class from uic. went straight into the phd program on a full boat scholarship.

it is really sad that the few bad apples are held up here on a progressive website. there is a vast left wing of the movement. many abhor the dumbing down of textbooks and the intrusion of religion in the public schools.
many just have kids who are too smart for schools that dont value gifted kids, or uphold their right to "an appropriate education". but talk about that right here, and yes, be called an elitist and more. talk about that right for a kid with learning disabilities, or a handicap of some sort, and they will bring out the torches and pitchforks to defend it.

when my son was ready for school there was no such thing as aspbergers. he is likely on the spectrum. he was painfully shy, and obsessed w fairness, which was going to be a problem in a factory school. but he is very happy now that he has found his tribe, and has many friends.

i feel ya.

[d_legendary1]

68. The mother of my God Daughter is considering home schooling

For one she lives in Newark, NJ and you've already heard of the lead poisoning from the public schools there. Then there's the lack of individual attention (class sizes), the unwanted behaviors children pick up from others, and other factors that have made her consider home schooling. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Its helpful for some of us who are still on the fence about it.

[Ms. Yertle]

80. Can't blame her a bit for considering it

especially under those circumstances.

I used to get so frustrated with my sons' public education, and considered homeschooling many times, but could never quite make myself make that decision.

Contrary to what a lot of people think, homeschooling parents want their children to succeed, and they make the commitment knowing that education will be a priority over virtually everything else every day.

[d_legendary1]

109. The wife and I did some research along with a few of her friends

who home school. One of them wanted to put her son back into public school after two years of home school. As it turns out he was more advanced in every subject than those who attended school. The admins told her that he would have to retake those same courses she taught him because of his age. Rather than lose a year of schooling she decided to keep teaching him at home.

Most people think that home schooling is basically turning on the tv for eight hours and letting the kid learn something, bible study, or some other fruitless way to teach their kid about math, science, reading, and writing. We've come to find out that there's more to it than that. She reminded us that its a pain (teaching 8-10 hours a day) and that the school board still tests these students to make sure they learned something. I've given my friend this information and she seems poised to do it. Unless one is committed to give a quality education to their child the results (if done right) speak for themselves.

[Pacifist Patriot]

111. My son decided he wanted to attend high school.

I had no idea where he was relative to his peers so we enrolled him in basic classes. Within 2 weeks he'd been up-phased to either the honors or pre-AP class in all four of the core academic classes, and encouraged to dual enroll at the community college his sophomore year. He declined in order to continue with his music electives and sports obligations. Graduated high school with over a 4.0 weighted GPA and an AP diploma.

He's now a "sophomore" in the honors program spring semester of his freshman year at FSU on a presidential scholarship and is currently on the Dean's List.

Clearly we ruined his education by keeping him home K-8.

[d_legendary1]

117. Glad you ruined his education

Had you set him up on the "right" path who knows what he would have been doing right now. I know my baby girl will be in good hands if her mother decides to home school her. Here's hoping that she succeeds. Congrats on your son BTw!

[Pacifist Patriot]

118. Thanks!

It's hard to keep that mommy pride from bursting out all over. LOL!

Good luck to you!

[Ms. Yertle]

116. Most kids are knowledge-sponges

I had a friend who totally embraced the John Holt method. Can't remember much about it, except that kids could learn fractions by baking cookies. The other homeschooling parents I knew were a little suspicious, because it looked for all the world like they weren't "teaching."

Whatever the did, worked. One daughter was reading at the age of three. The other took a LOT longer, (and in a public school, she may have been labelled learning disabled.) But eventually, she "got" it.

They were only homeschooled through 7th or 8th grade, then went to a parochial school for a year before attending our local public high school. IIRC, the older girl was a National Merit Finalist, or something.

A different friend started homeschooling when her daughter simply couldn't keep up in school. She also would probably have been labelled LD. The mom started researching learning styles, and realized that her daughter could learn, just in a different way than most. Once she was at home, and the curriculum was tailored to her specific needs, she began to successfully learn, and her confidence went waaaaaaaay up.

Also--most, if not all of my homeschooling friends were evangelical Christians. There is a lot of stereotyping of what E.C's believe, or want their children to know, or not know. Most of it is not true. Most E.C.'s are perfectly rational people.

[Pacifist Patriot]

119. I taught my eldest to read when out walking.

Sounds completely bizarre, but it worked for us. He just couldn't focus when sitting still, but was a total sponge whilst in motion. He did a complete 180 when he was 13 and was then able to remain still and absorb information. And although he is a voracious reader and always read above his grade level, he remains a highly auditory learner. Lectures definitely work better than texts for his retention which is working quite well now that he is at university.

[mopinko]

136. one of the best outcomes for my kids is

that they are all still voracious readers. they know how to educate themselves. they learned how to research when the interwebs were still pretty small. they are all excellent at it. they still follow their curiosity, which i think gets squeezed out of school kids.

kids have an amazing ability to educate themselves. in the right environment, it is mostly a matter of feeding that curiosity, and staying out of the way.
we def followed the unschooling format.

[d_legendary1]

120. Two of my wife's friends are E.C.s

And they're kids are learning everything they need to learn as far as the curriculum is concerned. Hell, they even go on field trips with other home schooled children so there is no fear of isolation from other kids. I like it because it gives the parents control of how the school year will look like. Plus since its your own flesh and blood you know more or less what is going to work and what isn't when it comes to learning.

Its one thing if some imbred is trying to commit fraud, but its another if its someone with a college degree wants to learn a trade or a skill to better themselves or the lives of their families. Not everyone lives by way Ted Haggard or these other fakers say they should live their lives by.

[AlbertCat]

61. so many misconceptions about home education that abound.

Well, that's because a lot of crappy homeschooling abounds.

It is not unreasonable to ask someone to take the GED. Just take it and allay any fears poetical schools or employers might have.

Persecution.... pu-leez.

[mopinko]

63. one plaintiff had a bachelors, for pete sake.

and most of the homeschoolers that i knew, including us, took the ged. but many take the sat or act instead, which is a far better measure of what they know.

the crappy ones are the minority, but everyone here likes to use that brush to paint the whole movement. on what other subject is that the progressive thing to do?

[AlbertCat]

67. the crappy ones are the minority,

How do we know that? (no really.... I'm asking)

It's up to home schoolers to prove that and destroy the stereotypes.

So, if they took the SAT.... then just take the GED. Is that fair? Probably not. But it's hardly a heavy burden.

Hell, every time I interviewed for film work, I would have to go thru the same resume/interview/portfolio ritual every time even tho' I had just done a film with the same people....and usually the same crew! It has to do with (the appearance at least) of being fair to all applicants.

It's not persecution.

[Pacifist Patriot]

88. Do you think it unreasonable to require someone with a bachelor's degree to take the GED?

[AlbertCat]

125. Do you think it unreasonable to require someone with a bachelor's degree to take the GED?

It's unnecessary... I wouldn't it do it if I were an employer. But unreasonable....? No.

[Pacifist Patriot]

168. Requiring something unnecessary that creates a burden on a person strikes me as unreasonable.

Guess we define unreasonable differently.

[freebrew]

37. It's getting pretty strange in my state(MO)...

ANYONE can home school their kids here. No need for attendance, grades or study.
The religious nuts here have gone to extremes to preserve their right to keep their children stupid.

Have talked to principals and administrators at local schools and have been told there is nothing the state will do.
These kids(not all) are being 'taught' by parents that haven't graduated from HS, or even have a GED.
Yet, the state requires teachers to maintain and improve their education to keep employed.

I would really like to see some federal over-sight on these things.

[Iris]

192. " I would really like to see some federal over-sight on these things."

that explains the right-wing hatred of the Department of Education. Of course they don't want federal control - then they wouldn't be able to perpetuate the ignorant voting population that keeps them in power.

[underpants]

39. But Mom says in smart! I got all A's!!

[malaise]

47. Fugg 'em

Tell them to work for their preferred church (of backwardness).

[eniwetok]

54. bring on the home-schooled surgeons! n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

57. I would be happy if they could just show they understand they have to play by

the same rules and laws that we adhere to.

[Pacifist Patriot]

104. That's a tough one because...

Laws and rules vary widely from state to state and institution to institution. Compare a public school kid from Iowa and a private school kid from Florida and they aren't having to adhere to the same rules and laws. Heck, compare two public school kids from two different states or two different counties and they have different requirements!

In this case, someone with a bachelor's degree was told they had to go back and take a GED because they were homeschooled rather than graduated from a high school that issues a diploma.

Why in the world should someone who has a college degree have to go back and take a GED? It's absurd.

[AlbertCat]

59. Christian homeschoolers cry discrimination

Christian __________ cry discrimination!

Fill in the blank.

[bighart]

66. Raise your hand

if you actually read the linked article and aren't just commenting without knowing the facts.

[mopinko]

82. dont hold your breath.

clearly most of the commenters did not read it.

[csziggy]

79. I know a young man who "went" through the online Florida Highschool program

Even though it is officially sanctioned by the state of Florida once he finished his coursework he had to take the General Educational Development exam. He aced it and had no problem using that document to get into trade school and into college.

[WillowTree]

83. Does this only apply to Christian homeschoolers? Or all homeschoolers?

Not all homeschoolers are necessarily Christians. If this only applies to Christian homeschoolers, then it certainly is discriminatory. If not, then the headline for the article (and this thread) is unnecessarily citing Christians per se.

That said, don't homeschooled kids have to pass exams specified by the states and if they do, don't they get some sort of diploma or certificate indicating that those test have been administered and passed? If so, no further certification ought to be required, whether they're Christians or not.

[mopinko]

97. it varies from state to state.

[daleanime]

103. ......

[Pacifist Patriot]

105. Would it be safe to assume the replies from all the folks who didn't bother to read the article

inspired the forehead slap?

[daleanime]

108. It might, I haven't read the responses....

mostly it's the inability to use common sense.

[Initech]

122. Anyone else need some butter?

[Jerry442]

128. Know what's missing from this discussion?

A fully-certified home-schooled dog. Do it, somebody.

[mopinko]

139. well my dogs are all pretty well trained, too.

one is a certified therapy dog. does that help?

[Sam_Fields]

140. I'm a victim of home schooling

All I did was receive a Christian education that was all about the bible, anti-science and basic math skills. I had to obtain my GED to join the service and when I got out I went to community college. I completed basic writing courses to learn how to write properly.

I once tested their grading by just marking all wrong answers on a 'bible test' and I received an A.

[Rex]

142. Around 4% of the population home schools and there is a good reason for that small a number.

Homeschooling is very bad for most children. That is why very few ever make it into higher education. The ones that do are exceptions to the rule.

[FBaggins]

167. That's an interesting claim

You wouldn't by any chance have some actual evidence to back it up, would you?

[Pacifist Patriot]

170. I hope you aren't holding your breath.

Or if you are, I hope you look good in blue.

[FBaggins]

171. No kidding

I later found some ridiculous claims (all of which appeared to derive from the number of homeschooled kids at Harvard plus multiple layers of ignorant assumptions)

Given the poor math/logic exhibited by extending that to the ridiculous claim that very few homeschoolers even get into college... I'm hoping for Rex's sake that he is a homeschooled student. Because otherwise he's damaging his own case.

[Pacifist Patriot]

177. Well I know that the plural of anecdote is not data, but...

I've been involved in the homeschooling community since 2002. I have seen countless teenagers "graduate" from their homes as well as dozens and dozens of kids who finished 12th grade having been both enrolled in school and homeschooled at some point.

I sincerely can only think of two who didn't go to college. One was too busy running her own company, and the other just had no interest and is happy as an electrician.

I'm not sure reliable stats even exist on this for either camp to use to bolster their arguments.

For one thing, do you count the kid who was homeschooled until seventh grade, but went to school for junior and senior high. Do you count the kid who went to school through sophomore year, but was homeschooled the junior and senior year? It's a fallacy to believe kids are either homeschooled or schooled. A crap ton are a blend of both. So which side do they represent when they do or don't go to college?

Silly claim because it lacks definition from the start.

[Rex]

186. LOL!

You two are funny, do you always talk to each other like that? It would be embarrassing for most people.

[Pacifist Patriot]

190. You will have to clarify what you mean.

Talk to each other like what, adults who can process information and grasp when a claim is without merit and has no supporting evidence? Or did you mean something else?

[Rex]

185. Already pointed it out upthread, maybe you should read it.

Already been asked and answered, try and keep up.

[FBaggins]

188. I did read it... and no, you didn't.

You made up an entire fictitious data set revolving around how many of them go to Harvard.

It was nonsense. As with the entirely unsupported (and unsupportable) claim that "a tiny amount of homeschooled students go to college and succeed." - repeated elsewhere as "Out of 100 applications, maybe 1 or 2 make it into college each year. "

Both are examples of extreme ignorance on the subject.

[Pacifist Patriot]

169. LOL! Make a claim like that you better be prepared to back it up!

Utter tripe.

[Rex]

184. Already did read the thread.

Snotty people have to do there own work.

[FBaggins]

189. "Snotty people have to do there own work."

Gotta love that public school grammar education, eh?

Ignoring the extreme irony of you calling anyone else snotty.

[rockfordfile]

158. It seems that most of these Home-schooled kids are religious types

It seems that most of these Home-schooled kids are religious types. Right wing religious nut jobs.

[oberliner]

179. The Christian homeschoolers in question both have college degrees

One would think that successfully graduating from a state university ought to qualify as proof of having learned something.