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deminks

(11,014 posts)
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 06:38 AM Apr 2016

Fmr FBI agent: "The White House let them off the hook."

http://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-covered-up-saudi-role-in-911/

(snip)

“The FBI was thwarted from interviewing the Saudis we wanted to interview by the White House,” said former FBI agent Mark Rossini, who was involved in the investigation of al Qaeda and the hijackers. The White House “let them off the hook.”

What’s more, Rossini said the bureau was told no subpoenas could be served to produce evidence tying departing Saudi suspects to 9/11. The FBI, in turn, iced local investigations that led back to the Saudis.

“The FBI covered their ears every time we mentioned the Saudis,” said former Fairfax County Police Lt. Roger Kelly. “It was too political to touch.”

(end snip)

CT no more.
139 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Fmr FBI agent: "The White House let them off the hook." (Original Post) deminks Apr 2016 OP
The FBI didn't want to interview Snowden and he was flying to China... Jeffersons Ghost Apr 2016 #1
Relavancy cantbeserious Apr 2016 #23
Sometime before 9-11 Mother Jones had a long article about GWB which included his previous business Baobab Apr 2016 #130
Enter GHOST and HAMLET Ghost Dog Apr 2016 #33
Not what this thread is about wordpix Apr 2016 #45
This was obvious since about 9/12... Human101948 Apr 2016 #2
LIHOP leads to MIHOP Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #4
I'm sorry: LIHOP? MIHOP? Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #17
here: FailureToCommunicate Apr 2016 #18
Let it happen on purpose, made it happen on purpose tularetom Apr 2016 #19
Thanks. Very helpful explanation. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #21
Here you go! Heidi Apr 2016 #35
Agreed. dgibby Apr 2016 #58
^ n/t BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2016 #95
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Apr 2016 #41
i do not think it is that the public doesn't care questionseverything Apr 2016 #55
+ 1 red dog 1 Apr 2016 #69
So who let Bush, Cheney et al off the hook? malaise Apr 2016 #3
the establishment... in particular the media deserves much criticism Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #5
Precisely malaise Apr 2016 #6
+ National Insecurity Establishment Ghost Dog Apr 2016 #34
+1,000,000 mopinko Apr 2016 #87
No Opposition Party was in Congress at the time. bvar22 Apr 2016 #70
no matter who ultimately drove that decision, it was a betrayal Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #76
The media reacted like scared little rabbits over being labeled unpatriotic and or as sympathetic cstanleytech Apr 2016 #99
That would be Pelosi and Obama fasttense Apr 2016 #8
in general, the Democratic establishment betrayed their responsibility Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #14
That's about the size of it. SusanCalvin Apr 2016 #51
Saudi Arabia is trying to blackmail us now Awknid Apr 2016 #74
Yup. That was the beginning of our disillusionment with the new, shiney administration. FailureToCommunicate Apr 2016 #20
Well... ReRe Apr 2016 #9
Ain't that the truth. classykaren Apr 2016 #25
we did. we will again because we give the MIC the ability to certainot Apr 2016 #78
Good post malaise Apr 2016 #117
Nancy Impeachment Is Off The Table. Dont call me Shirley Apr 2016 #80
On one hand I was pissed that Pelosi did that. Initech Apr 2016 #135
Obama should have sent them to The Hague. Still can! Dont call me Shirley Apr 2016 #138
Lets start with Obama. "We must look to the future." Hoppy Apr 2016 #86
they told us we had to LOOK FORWARD Skittles Apr 2016 #126
Empire over rule of law malaise Apr 2016 #127
This is George W. Bush...................and he and his "team" should be in jail........... turbinetree Apr 2016 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author IHateTheGOP Apr 2016 #31
They caused a lot of damage.................................. turbinetree Apr 2016 #47
"Level of destruction"? Then why are any criminals in prison? Duppers Apr 2016 #60
Trust me I understand ................................ turbinetree Apr 2016 #67
Thanks for witnessing, turbinetree. Ghost Dog Apr 2016 #91
Thank you ...................Ghost Dog, Thank you very much............................... turbinetree Apr 2016 #104
I feel the same way. Ilsa Apr 2016 #93
This message was self-deleted by its author IHateTheGOP Apr 2016 #109
GWB and Prince Bandar were buddies, and Bandar was funding the 9-11 terrors. alfredo Apr 2016 #128
yep......................the record shows it............................ turbinetree Apr 2016 #129
He's above the law it appears alfredo Apr 2016 #131
Why hasn't he come back to the United States..........should be the question.................... turbinetree Apr 2016 #132
They are busy with Benghazi and repealing obamacare alfredo Apr 2016 #133
Silly me ................................... turbinetree Apr 2016 #136
Punishing Dems is job one. alfredo Apr 2016 #137
The Republican betrayal of America is evil - no other word for it. AxionExcel Apr 2016 #10
however the Dem establishment let them off the hook Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #12
...along with the cowardly & corrupted US Media, Inc. (R) AxionExcel Apr 2016 #16
curious, what's the date of that New York Post? thesquanderer Apr 2016 #36
About 8 months after 9/11...May 16, 2002 AxionExcel Apr 2016 #40
Bush Knew. bvar22 Apr 2016 #84
always so happy to see my reps on such lists. mopinko Apr 2016 #88
Are you writing about the vote on the war in Afghanistan? The AUMF. JDPriestly Apr 2016 #112
Not that the Taliban were or are awesome Hydra Apr 2016 #119
So you were writing about the war in Afghanistan. JDPriestly Apr 2016 #121
I wasn't further upthread Hydra Apr 2016 #125
The formal name of the Iraq War Resolution is "The Authorization to use Military Force in Iraq", bvar22 Apr 2016 #122
And now, our dear friends sulphurdunn Apr 2016 #11
they can stick their assets where the sun don't shine, I'm so sick of that evil regime Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #13
The Administrations accepted the business loss in Baghdad in 1990 and in 2003 with no problem. DhhD Apr 2016 #38
That is a threat and nothing more. unapatriciated Apr 2016 #53
Fine. MynameisBlarney Apr 2016 #56
Another one for the "no shit, Sherlock" file blackspade Apr 2016 #15
or... lame54 Apr 2016 #94
Exactly my point. blackspade Apr 2016 #96
We need answers Botany Apr 2016 #22
Indeed, we the people of the USA are owed some answers from the Republican Cabal, Inc. AxionExcel Apr 2016 #44
I think this entire coverup followed from Angel Martin Apr 2016 #24
Religion? Duppers Apr 2016 #63
No I didn't make myself clear Angel Martin Apr 2016 #64
Bush and Cheney let a planeload filled with prime suspects fly when no one else was allowed to. Octafish Apr 2016 #26
Salem bin Laden, through James Bath, funded Arbusto. alfredo Apr 2016 #32
From there, the possibilities would become endless for the money trumps peace crowd. Octafish Apr 2016 #42
similar artwork about hc's sos period, bill's speeches and foundation donations would be helpful questionseverything Apr 2016 #54
Actually, Mark Lombardi created several examples... Octafish Apr 2016 #57
i appreciate your dedication to the truth oct questionseverything Apr 2016 #59
I got to see Lombardi's work in the mid-00s SomeGuyInEagan Apr 2016 #105
Thank you for sharing that memory! Octafish Apr 2016 #139
The FBI should have shutdown in protest, yet just like good authoritarian robots they looked the Rex Apr 2016 #52
ahhh.... spanone Apr 2016 #27
Sunni Oil Alliance-Bush Iraqi Oil and King Saudi Oil: the two families married. DhhD Apr 2016 #43
Wow, next we'll be finding out Holly_Hobby Apr 2016 #28
You Forgot Something Holly ProfessorGAC Apr 2016 #72
I only have a HS diploma, so I know nothing about nukes actually, Holly_Hobby Apr 2016 #73
I Was Being Facetious ProfessorGAC Apr 2016 #116
I was too. But I have doubts about the official story... n/t Holly_Hobby Apr 2016 #118
You post would be complete if only it had that photo of Bush kissing the Saudi. -nt CrispyQ Apr 2016 #29
Is there any more affection the Bushs could show do the Saudis? avaistheone1 Apr 2016 #39
I fully expect another picture of Bush with the Saudis to emerge hueymahl Apr 2016 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author IHateTheGOP Apr 2016 #30
Just sickening robertgodardfromnj Apr 2016 #37
Chainee is luxuriating at his Eastern shore town or Wyoming ranch while boosh wordpix Apr 2016 #46
Want to bet whether ISIS is more a threat to the Saudi's than the rest of us? randr Apr 2016 #48
So laws really are conditional, gee that doesn't make me feel very safe. Rex Apr 2016 #50
I was going to read your post greiner3 Apr 2016 #61
This explains why GW was so kissy-face with the Saudis Martin Eden Apr 2016 #62
Bush had a long-standing relationship with the Saudis... Duppers Apr 2016 #66
Whether Bush knew about this or not is really irrelevant. He wasn't running the country. rhett o rick Apr 2016 #65
I agree with your thinking. These people, the inner cabal, truedelphi Apr 2016 #110
If you noticed, George and Cheney were very egoistic while in office. But when it came time rhett o rick Apr 2016 #111
ALL the reasons the Bush Admin. protected the Saudis Duppers Apr 2016 #68
Isn't that "Obstruction of Justice"? red dog 1 Apr 2016 #71
Disgraceful Baitball Blogger Apr 2016 #75
And Clinton is still in cahoots with the Saudis WDIM Apr 2016 #77
I don't think Obama is in a hurry to question their involvement. nt JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2016 #79
I just got up from a nap and it must be 2001, judging from D,U. lindysalsagal Apr 2016 #81
KnR! Dont call me Shirley Apr 2016 #82
None Dare Call It Inside Job billhicks76 Apr 2016 #83
Anyone who said zentrum Apr 2016 #85
Spineless Lemmings billhicks76 Apr 2016 #113
There is actually a word for it. .. Kamikaze KelleyKramer Apr 2016 #106
A B-25 Bomber (no bombs onboard) crashed into thr Empire State Building in the 1945, bvar22 Apr 2016 #123
In the mid 90s some yahoo tried to crash plane into WH KelleyKramer Apr 2016 #124
Jesus, author Tom Clancey was harping about it in the '90s SomeGuyInEagan Apr 2016 #107
Gave Cheney and Bush Sr The Idea billhicks76 Apr 2016 #115
Kicked Botany Apr 2016 #89
I thought this was going to be about Hillary's email server. Seriously. dinkytron Apr 2016 #90
Hopefully this will all come to light some day, and Cheney/Bush will be vilified by history. C Moon Apr 2016 #92
What government *hasn't* either sponsored terrorism or had its agents committed it outright? YoungDemCA Apr 2016 #97
One thing I've noticed: justice is much slower for the powerful. Gregorian Apr 2016 #98
we were told we had to LOOK FORWARD Skittles Apr 2016 #100
Cheney's DoJ was very busy infiltrating all parts. While Cheney burnt and shredded documents. Rex Apr 2016 #101
This message was self-deleted by its author RandySF Apr 2016 #102
The Saudis have lost their leverage/bargaining chip with the US CoffeeCat Apr 2016 #103
But but but, they are our ally! progressoid Apr 2016 #114
Our good friends the Saudis no longer supply US with all the oil wordpix Apr 2016 #120
k & freaking r! thanks for posting this! n/t wildbilln864 Apr 2016 #108
Saudi Arabia might be the worst country on earth. Initech Apr 2016 #134

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
1. The FBI didn't want to interview Snowden and he was flying to China...
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 06:42 AM
Apr 2016

with all kinds of CIA, NSA and oddly GCHQ information on secret projects. Xi was smart enough to trick Putin into using the human hot potato; but he is not smart enough to leave Ghosts alone and let them rest in peace.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
130. Sometime before 9-11 Mother Jones had a long article about GWB which included his previous business
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:12 AM
Apr 2016

activities, one of which was an airline for the oil industry which failed.

One of his business partners in that airline was one of OBL's half brothers.


The media in the post 9-11 fray NEVER BROUGHT THAT UP.

I bet you could find the article, also it seems as if it would be in public records.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
33. Enter GHOST and HAMLET
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 09:33 AM
Apr 2016

HAMLET
Where wilt thou lead me? Speak, I’ll go no further.
GHOST
Mark me.
HAMLET
 I will.
GHOST
  My hour is almost come
When I to sulfurous and tormenting flames
Must render up myself.
HAMLET
   Alas, poor ghost!
GHOST
Pity me not, but lend thy serious hearing
To what I shall unfold.
HAMLET
   Speak. I am bound to hear.
GHOST
So art thou to revenge when thou shalt hear.
HAMLET
What?

... etc...
 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
2. This was obvious since about 9/12...
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 06:58 AM
Apr 2016

and the people who were raising the alarm were labeled as tinfoil conspiracy theory nuts.

Eventually we will learn that there was ample warning about what the Saudis were doing and LIHOP will be the final judgment.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
4. LIHOP leads to MIHOP
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:16 AM
Apr 2016

They knew but they couldn't have randomly let it happen. They had to have controlled it at some level.

It was an inside job, all the way.

Our media, like it has on every other huge crime story, fell down on the job in the worst way. They were actually quite complicit in the cover-up.

Response to Human101948 (Reply #2)

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
5. the establishment... in particular the media deserves much criticism
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:18 AM
Apr 2016

but so do all the major politicians.

malaise

(269,054 posts)
6. Precisely
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:21 AM
Apr 2016

The rule of law versus the desire for empire never fails to destroy the empire.
There are way too many contradictions and cover-ups.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
70. No Opposition Party was in Congress at the time.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 02:31 PM
Apr 2016

In 2006, the Democratic Party achieved majorities in BOTH the House and Senate, aided by massive dissatisfaction among Democrats and Independents over the lack of investigations into the Saudi-Bush connection to 9-11. Nancy Pelosi became the Speaker of the House.

One of Pelosi's first announcements as Speaker (if not her very first announcement) was that Investigations and Impeachment "were OFF-the-Table".
Period.
Full Stop.


Can Nancy Pelosi single-handedly take impeachment off the table?

"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is proving to be the surprise O. Henry ending to last November's elections. The American voters gave Democrats clear control of Congress, rebuked President George W. Bush, and voiced an unequivocal public craving to trade in customary narrow-minded politics for something more inspiring. Yet motivated by partisan concerns over the 2008 elections, the new speaker is following President Bush around like a sheep while he solidifies an imperial presidency and diminishes the Congress into irrelevancy. Just look at the latest ACLU advertisement targeting Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. The only thing Pelosi has retained for the Congress is small-minded earmarks to attract political contributions.

<snip>

"According to public opinion polling, the percentage of voters supporting the impeachments of both President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney are now approximately 45 and 54 percent, respectively. Most Americans instinctively feel the president is an untrustworthy steward of the Constitution's checks and balances because, among other things, he flouts laws, prohibits White House aides from testifying before Congress, consistently defends an attorney general who is an inveterate liar, and detains citizens and noncitizens indefinitely as enemy combatants on his say-so alone. The prevailing barometer of acute public dissatisfaction with the White House surpasses the corresponding disaffection with President Richard M. Nixon when the Senate Watergate hearings began in May 1973. "

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2007/08/the_heart_of_queens.html



 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
76. no matter who ultimately drove that decision, it was a betrayal
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:04 PM
Apr 2016

Of course, in matters such as war, terrorism, "national security" and the spy agencies, the permanent government/deep state is wholly in charge.

cstanleytech

(26,295 posts)
99. The media reacted like scared little rabbits over being labeled unpatriotic and or as sympathetic
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:41 PM
Apr 2016

to terrorists.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
8. That would be Pelosi and Obama
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:34 AM
Apr 2016

Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table. She ignored what the majority of Americans wanted.

Obama never prosecuted any rich criminals unless they stole from other rich criminals. It was as if he saw no crimes in lying a country into war.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
14. in general, the Democratic establishment betrayed their responsibility
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:56 AM
Apr 2016

to hold the Bush administration responsible for their many crimes, and the GOP still rules our fucking political system.

Awknid

(381 posts)
74. Saudi Arabia is trying to blackmail us now
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 03:43 PM
Apr 2016

Don't you think they've been doing it all along? But no one had the nerve to call their bluff until now.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
9. Well...
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:42 AM
Apr 2016

... on the surface, wasn't it Nancy Pelosi and PO? And out of sight behind the curtains, TPTB holding high the theory of "COG" (Continuance of Government)?

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
78. we did. we will again because we give the MIC the ability to
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:40 PM
Apr 2016

dominate media whenever they need to, because we let a minority party of ignorant flat earthers have too much power, because we ignore their most important weapon.

why did we allow those motherfuckers to lie us into iraq? why was it impossible for anyone in public to suggest cheney bush allowed 911? and if it was so clear that 911 was not what it seemed why didn't more people suggest it?

at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 stations, rw talk radio is worth 4.68 BIL$/ year or 390MIL$ /month FREE for coordinated pro republican wall st think tank propaganda swiftboating and lies

because the lazy dumbass left, the political side with the most to gain by not ignoring talk radio, ignores talk radio

so we let it take free potshots at our reps all day long and then blame them for not sticking their necks out far enough or wasting more time fighting the MIC, with all those high paid PR talents sitting in billionaire think tanks cooking up benghazis etc

forget bernie doing shit in the white house until the left stops ignoring rw radio

Initech

(100,081 posts)
135. On one hand I was pissed that Pelosi did that.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 04:29 PM
Apr 2016

On the other, I can see where a trial of Bush admin officials would have been a bigger farce than OJ. There is no way we could have handled things the same way Nuremberg did.

 

Hoppy

(3,595 posts)
86. Lets start with Obama. "We must look to the future."
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:43 PM
Apr 2016

Nancy Pelosi. "Impeachment is off the table."

At the least, impeachment would have given knowledge of who, what and why.

turbinetree

(24,703 posts)
7. This is George W. Bush...................and he and his "team" should be in jail...........
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:29 AM
Apr 2016




http://www.alternet.org/how-bush-administration-covered-saudi-connection-911

http://prospect.org/article/bushs-saudi-connections

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1221783

https://shadowproof.com/2009/02/17/are-your-members-of-congress-supporting-an-investigation-into-bush-crimes/

We the people are demanding to see this information now, those 28 pages, not later, or not ever, but now, because at one point in this "stuff" we had control of the House and Senate, which we gave and voted into power these chambers, and were demanding a investigation.......................


Honk---------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

Response to turbinetree (Reply #7)

turbinetree

(24,703 posts)
47. They caused a lot of damage..................................
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:28 AM
Apr 2016

and we are still living with there 3 trillion plus illegal war debt of a lie, families of soldiers and soldiers themselves which we the tax payers will being paying for into the long term future, torture, and there lies, and the fact that this world is not in a better place.

If those 28 pages are released, and I am not going to hold my collective breath on that matter, there are forces bigger than justice out there, we are already seeing a foreign corrupt power pushing back on those release, (my attitude they can go effing themselves) the agenda of kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the house of Saud.

The facts show that Bin Laden and the Saudi government were tied at the wheel, even though he was branded as a outsider, he was not. Usually, I don't belive in rumors , but on this one it has lingered to many years and I believe on a situation such as this the rumors are true...................................

I personally do not want to stoop to there level of destruction, I want them (Bush + his worthless team, and the Saudi government) to live knowing that if they travel overseas they will be arrested and prosecuted, then, we as a society can have closure since this government does not have the wither-al to stand for justice, knowing that they failed in there responsibilities to try and bring forth charges of murder against them.

I and some other men worked on the United aircraft that night, and which latter that moring had crashed in the PA countryside that morning (FLT 93), and all I know is that one day Bush and his criminal team must answer for there crimes, and if they do not, they will go to there collective graves in disgrace, and they need to be reminded of this fact, and also there families, that they are a disgrace.

And the books that will be written about them into the future will also say that there megalomania was just that megalomania, and they where liars, no matter how some will try to sugar that set of facts on history.

Duppers

(28,125 posts)
60. "Level of destruction"? Then why are any criminals in prison?
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 12:54 PM
Apr 2016

Is this not a country of laws?

Imo, justice is not served. These psychopaths are incapable of feeling guilt.




turbinetree

(24,703 posts)
67. Trust me I understand ................................
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 01:58 PM
Apr 2016

they don't have a conscience fiber in there bodies........................


Honk--------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

turbinetree

(24,703 posts)
104. Thank you ...................Ghost Dog, Thank you very much...............................
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:37 PM
Apr 2016

It was very hard going into work that night...........................that night, sitting there, or standing there from the hanger entrance and seeing the glow, the glow of death, and destruction, because that early morning we could see the Twin Towers, standing there across the Hudson, and then they were gone, that night............................




Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
93. I feel the same way.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 09:10 PM
Apr 2016

They were not negligent. They intentionally let this happen. They are accessories to 3,000+ murders followed by 4,000 military deaths and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths. They squandered US wealth. They saddled us with laws allowing US citizens to be spied upon. They ruined our image and authority in the world.

To quote Hanover Fist from Heavy Metal, "Hanging's too good for him. Burning's too good for him! He should be torn into little bitsy pieces and buried alive!"

Response to Ilsa (Reply #93)

turbinetree

(24,703 posts)
129. yep......................the record shows it............................
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:10 AM
Apr 2016

and look what was gotten for $130,000 dollars---------------------------

turbinetree

(24,703 posts)
132. Why hasn't he come back to the United States..........should be the question....................
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 03:22 PM
Apr 2016

and why he spent $130,000 dollars should be the next question, have we had any hearings on this matter, nope not on this current issue, it's like hearing we don't need any stinky hearings, unless its against woman's right to privacy for example, not word on why the 28 pages will not be released, this is just B*******T


This is just so wrong, and the powers to be wonder why people are upset............duh..................

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
36. curious, what's the date of that New York Post?
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 09:44 AM
Apr 2016

obviously, it's a while back, the Post ain't 25 cents these days!

AxionExcel

(755 posts)
40. About 8 months after 9/11...May 16, 2002
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:37 AM
Apr 2016

Even Donald Trump (R) knows the ugly truth about the Republican Party he is part of:

“The World Trade Center came down during the reign of George Bush,” Trump said, because the president “didn’t listen to the advice of his CIA.”

Post headline date according to "The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation"

https://books.google.com/books?id=sOUFNF3tQGAC&pg=PT365&lpg=PT365&dq=%22Bush+Knew%22+%2B+headline+%2B+%22the+new+york+post%22&source=bl&ots=_Z4eTSMxVa&sig=fSu50Xb6PTnGHlnZ0zQXIr7f1Jo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7zs_4s5jMAhVD42MKHWbPArYQ6AEIRjAH#v=onepage&q=%22Bush%20Knew%22%20%2B%20headline%20%2B%20%22the%20new%20york%20post%22&f=false

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
84. Bush Knew.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 06:30 PM
Apr 2016

So did the Democrats who helped him wage an unnecessary, immoral, and illegal WAR on the innocent Iraqi People.
He couldn't have gone to Iraq without help from the conservative wing of the Democratic Party.

[font size=4]The Democratic Party Honor Roll[/font]

These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the WAR Machine.
They voted "NO" on the Authorization to Use Military Force in Iraq.
Bush was unable to "fool" them.
They had the intelligence and integrity to see through the Republican Lies,
and were unafraid to take a STAND.


United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu


clip>

... I'd like to give a nod of appreciation to those 156 Congresspeople and Senators who voted against the AUMF of 2002. This isn't meant to be praise for everything they've ever done, before or since, merely acknowledgment on this, they were right when so many were wrong.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
112. Are you writing about the vote on the war in Afghanistan? The AUMF.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 02:30 AM
Apr 2016

Or about the IWR -- the Iraq War Resolution?

Because Bernie Sanders voted against War in Iraq and for the war in Afghanistan.

What evidence do you have that Al Qaeda in Afghanistan was NOT involved in 9/11?

Iraq was not involved in 9/11, but Al Qaeda in Afghanistan????

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
119. Not that the Taliban were or are awesome
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:51 AM
Apr 2016

But they offered to hand over Bin Laden to avoid trouble with the US- after all, we were subsidizing them at the time and they were happy with the arrangement. Bushco ignored the offer because Bin Ladin was too valuable running around as an endless excuse to invade wherever, and he was most probably still on our payroll as well. Word was that they had him in Tora Bora and the order came in to let him slip through.

The invasions had nothing to do with 9/11. They should have been treated as war crimes, but I guess we're past the point of caring about that as a party.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
125. I wasn't further upthread
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:30 PM
Apr 2016

But I was one of the few people against the war in Afghanistan too. I've always viewed the terrorism thing as a criminal matter rather than a military or state power issue- Investigate, charge, bring in and try them in normal courts.

The general refusal to do so by more than one administration tells me that there are things going on that they do not want us to know.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
122. The formal name of the Iraq War Resolution is "The Authorization to use Military Force in Iraq",
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 02:30 PM
Apr 2016

frequently shortened to AUMF, or the less formal "Iraq War Resolution". They are the same bill.

Yes.
There was also an AUMF in Afghanistan, for which only one Democrat voted "NO!", and that was Democratic Congresswoman Barbara Lee (Hooray and Kudos for her).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force

I also stood against the use of Military Force in Afghanistan. Though in the minority here, there were a number of DUers who believed (as I did) that International Law Enforcement was the best way to deal with a handful of Saudi Criminals renting space in some Warlord's desert. Very few Afghans knew about these Saudi criminals hiding in the desert, and the vast majority of those we killed were completely innocent.

I wrote an OP back then titled:
Drop Big Macs, Blue Jeans, and $100 bills, NOT BOMBS.
It would have cost far less, been far more effective, and engendered good will instead of more terrorism.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
11. And now, our dear friends
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:49 AM
Apr 2016

the Saudis are threatening to dump their American assets if we presume to hold them accountable for anything to do with 9/11.

DhhD

(4,695 posts)
38. The Administrations accepted the business loss in Baghdad in 1990 and in 2003 with no problem.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:27 AM
Apr 2016

So did the Congress (except Sanders and Obama who voted against the privatization of Iraqi Oil as AL-Qaeda was not allowed in Iraq by Saddam). The Obama Administration can easily follow suite. During the Syrian Cease Fire, Obama is going over to talk with the Saudi King to see if America is going to support Saudi Arabia/Syria/Russia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/16/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-warns-ofeconomic-fallout-if-congress-passes-9-11-bill.html?_r=2


Now Obama is getting it from both sides. Bush could ignore it, just like other lawmakers from New York did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141418679


Obama is a lame duck going to Saudi Arabia. Will the next Administration be during a war crimes trial while fighting a ground war in Syria? A GOP president would want only the ground war. IMO, Clinton would want only the ground war as she did nothing to help with House Resolution 428 during her Senatorial term (an now does not remember the origination of the 9/11 law suite originating in southern New York). Sanders would want diplomacy instead of war.

unapatriciated

(5,390 posts)
53. That is a threat and nothing more.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:53 AM
Apr 2016

realistically they know it is not financially feasible.

They are playing a game of chicken hoping we will blink first.

Botany

(70,516 posts)
22. We need answers
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 08:42 AM
Apr 2016

The Saudis in Florida that ran away prior to 9-11?

http://gawker.com/5838498/the-mysterious-saudi-family-that-vanished-two-weeks-before-911

*****
From the link in the O.P.

“The Saudi ambassador funded two of the 9/11 hijackers through a third party,” Guandolo said. “He should be treated as a terrorist suspect, as should other members of the Saudi elite class who the US government knows are currently funding the global jihad.”

Angel Martin

(942 posts)
24. I think this entire coverup followed from
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 08:53 AM
Apr 2016

"Islam is a religion of peace."

That becomes an unsustainable narrative once America's leading muslim "ally" is exposed as a participant in 911.

Duppers

(28,125 posts)
63. Religion?
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 01:11 PM
Apr 2016

This old atheist* and most DUers who have followed this for 15 yrs know this is about greed and global-political corruption.

*Added to let you know that I'm not, in any way, a defender of Islam or any other religion.

Angel Martin

(942 posts)
64. No I didn't make myself clear
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 01:17 PM
Apr 2016

no religious motive.

It was a political motive by the Bush Administration to define Islam as a"religion of peace"

And as a result, it wouldn't do to have the USA most prominent muslim "ally" (and biggest exporter of islam in the world) exposed as terrorist funders, supporters and enablers.

Bush and co wanted to invade Iraq, not Saudi Arabia. Exposing Saudi participation in 911 would have made it impossible to invade Iraq w/o invading Saudi Arabia.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
26. Bush and Cheney let a planeload filled with prime suspects fly when no one else was allowed to.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 08:58 AM
Apr 2016

That should have been a red flag, if not a clue, in the J Edgar Hoover building.

Anyone remember James R Bath? Great guy and pilot. Connects House of Bush and House of bin Laden, Big Time.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
42. From there, the possibilities would become endless for the money trumps peace crowd.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:42 AM
Apr 2016

Bath, were he granted immunity and witness protection, would shed light on the how the bin Laden and Bush families were in business together. The artist Mark Lombardi drew up the picture in 2000.

The short version: Back in the day when George W was in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War, he met Maj. James R Bath, a genuine war hero. They both apparently were removed from TANG flight status for failing to take physical exams at the same time. Note how the Bush White House redacted a proper noun here and there.

Here're two versions of the documents Michael Moore almost made famous:



Now this document shows that the House of bin Laden selected James R Bath to be their official U.S. business agent.



Then, there's the even BIGGER MONEY angle.



Questions Linger About Bushes and BCCI

By Lucy Komisar
Inter Press Service, Thursday 05 April 2007

New York - Now that the U.S. Congress is investigating the truth of President George W. Bush's statements about the Iraq war, they might look into one of his most startling assertions: that there was a link between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.

Critics dismissed that as an invention. They were wrong. There was a link, but not the one Bush was selling. The link between Hussein and Bin Laden was their banker, BCCI. But the link went beyond the dictator and the jihadist - it passed through Saudi Arabia and stretched all the way to George W. Bush and his father.

SNIP...

The Bushes' private links to the bank passed to Bin Mahfouz through Texas businessman James R. Bath, who invested money in the United States on behalf of the Saudi. In 1976, when Bush was the head of the CIA, the agency sold some of the planes of Air America, a secret "proprietary" airline it used during the Vietnam War, to Skyway, a company owned by Bath and Bin Mahfouz. Bath then helped finance George W. Bush's oil company, Arbusto Energy Inc., in 1979 and 1980.

When Harken Energy Corp., which had absorbed Arbusto (by then merged with Spectrum 7 Energy), got into financial trouble in 1987, Jackson Stephens of the powerful, politically-connected Arkansas investment firm helped it secure 25 million dollars in financing from the Union Bank of Switzerland. As part of that deal, a place on the board was given to Harken shareholder Sheik Abdullah Taha Bakhsh, whose chief banker was BCCI shareholder Bin Mahfouz.

Then, in 1988, George Bush Sr. was elected president. Harken benefited by getting some new investors, including Salem bin Laden, Osama bin Laden's half-brother, and Khalid bin Mahfouz. Osama bin Laden himself was busy elsewhere at the time - organising al Qaeda.

CONTINUED...

http://truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/69782:ties-between-the-bush-family-and-osama-bin-laden



So, one New York City artist artist, the late upon planning its exhibition Mark Lombardi, connected bin Laden and Bush with his Art.



His pen and ink social network diagrams tied people, events, and time together in a very understandable way. That was in 2000. Then, just as his career was really taking off, he died from suicide cough murder. The FBI visited his gallery and took pictures of this in 2000.



A pertinent detail shows how Salem bin Laden and James R Bath and George W Bush are connected, like Aspens.



Then, there's Carlyle Group. Among their possessions today is Booz Allen Hamilton, go-to company for the NSA.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
57. Actually, Mark Lombardi created several examples...
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 12:30 PM
Apr 2016


Bill Clinton, the Lippo Group, and Jackson
Stephens of Little Rock,Arkansas (5th Version) 1999
Colored pencil and graphite on paper

SOURCE: http://www.pierogi2000.com/2011/03/mark-lombardi-at-pierogi/lombardibillclintonlippo5/

MORE: http://www.flashpointmag.com/mlpic.htm

BACKGROUND: BCCI IN THE UNITED STATES

SomeGuyInEagan

(1,515 posts)
105. I got to see Lombardi's work in the mid-00s
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:43 PM
Apr 2016

An exhibit in San Francisco. Pretty sure I had first heard about his work here and was excited to see the exhibit would be there a few blocks from my hotel for a conference. Great stuff.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
139. Thank you for sharing that memory!
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 06:33 PM
Apr 2016

His work was part of an exhibition at the University of Michigan Museum of Art in 2003.

Mark Lombardi: Global Networks, Art and Architecture Building, Jean Paul Slusser Gallery, through Oct. 22. The first retrospective of the groundbreaking career of Lombardi, whose work mapped two decades of international financial scandals. His graphite and colored pencil drawings map the economic underpinnings of our global society. Sponsored by the School of Art & Design, (734) 936-2082.

http://www.ur.umich.edu/0304/Sept08_03/events_Sept08_03.shtml


I bought a catalogue of his works UMMA had available at the time, a gold mine of information. Inspiring, too.

I don't know if they still have any left, but if you like his work they might be worth giving a call.
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
52. The FBI should have shutdown in protest, yet just like good authoritarian robots they looked the
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:41 AM
Apr 2016

other way. YEP, still very much Hoovers FBI...pathetic.

DhhD

(4,695 posts)
43. Sunni Oil Alliance-Bush Iraqi Oil and King Saudi Oil: the two families married.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:44 AM
Apr 2016

Sanders voted against. Obama voted against. Clinton voted for.

Obama has been summoned to Saudi Arabia for the triangulation.

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
28. Wow, next we'll be finding out
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 09:07 AM
Apr 2016

there was no plane at the Pentagon and suitcase nukes caused the towers to fall.

ProfessorGAC

(65,076 posts)
72. You Forgot Something Holly
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 02:52 PM
Apr 2016

Suitcase nukes that don't create a supersonic shock wave caused the towers to fall.

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
73. I only have a HS diploma, so I know nothing about nukes actually,
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 02:58 PM
Apr 2016

but looking at the pictures of the melted granite bedrock makes me wonder how a plane fuel fire way above it, melted it. I don't understand it. I have much doubt about the official story.

ProfessorGAC

(65,076 posts)
116. I Was Being Facetious
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 06:52 AM
Apr 2016

I thought you were too. There is no such thing as a nuclear blast without a supersonic shock wave. With all the dust in the air, the shock wave would have been impossible to miss. It would have moved debris in the air at several thousand miles per hour.

CrispyQ

(36,478 posts)
29. You post would be complete if only it had that photo of Bush kissing the Saudi. -nt
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 09:18 AM
Apr 2016

on edit: Ahhh, I see spanone had the same idea!

hueymahl

(2,497 posts)
49. I fully expect another picture of Bush with the Saudis to emerge
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:37 AM
Apr 2016

This time with Georgie-boy on his knees kissing something else.

Response to deminks (Original post)

 
37. Just sickening
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:09 AM
Apr 2016

Bush and his cronies deserve to live the rest of their pathetic lives in prison. Where's the justice?

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
46. Chainee is luxuriating at his Eastern shore town or Wyoming ranch while boosh
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:57 AM
Apr 2016

Paints in Houston. No justice at all

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
50. So laws really are conditional, gee that doesn't make me feel very safe.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:40 AM
Apr 2016

The FBI should have closed down in protest.

Martin Eden

(12,870 posts)
62. This explains why GW was so kissy-face with the Saudis
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 01:01 PM
Apr 2016

They gave him the pretext for the war he wanted.

Duppers

(28,125 posts)
66. Bush had a long-standing relationship with the Saudis...
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 01:56 PM
Apr 2016

Prior to 9/11. He got financing from them in his business dealings before becoming president.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
65. Whether Bush knew about this or not is really irrelevant. He wasn't running the country.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 01:23 PM
Apr 2016

The people that run the country were in place before he became president and are still in place now. I think Gen James Clapper has a lot of power. And the story they've fed us is bullshit. There are a lot of unanswered questions. And yes there are some pretty crazy theories out there but that doesn't mean they are all wrong.

Interesting that those that think there was no conspiracy are the conservative Democrats. They don't like conspiracies because it's too hard for their brains. Also, they believe in authoritarian adulation, i.e., never question your authoritarian leaders. You can recognize them as the ones with their fingers in their ears, eyes closed yelling "CT, run, CT".

The bottom line is that there are questions that need to be answered.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
110. I agree with your thinking. These people, the inner cabal,
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 12:18 AM
Apr 2016

all have been running the show all the way back to Nov 22nd 1963. (Which is why it was so very important to keep a lid on that "conspiracy." Once you realize they killed a man who was going to overturn the Federal Reserve, you realize a great deal. And none of it is very pretty.)

People here act like this wouldn't have happened if Gore had been in office. But it surely would have.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
111. If you noticed, George and Cheney were very egoistic while in office. But when it came time
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 12:47 AM
Apr 2016

for them to leave, they both had changes of demeanor. Instead of leaving Washington the DC as the pompous asses they are, they both quietly, meekly left town. Cheney even used a wheelchair. I believe that The Powers That Be, told them in no uncertain terms how to behave. They were mere tools of the NSA/CIA Dark State. And when Obama was elected, he was told that "they" had everything under control security wise and if he were to try to change something and some thing "happened" to go bad, it would be all on him. Not a direct threat, but a subtle threat.

Duppers

(28,125 posts)
68. ALL the reasons the Bush Admin. protected the Saudis
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 02:07 PM
Apr 2016

should be exposed.

This was state sponsored and did not just involve the hijackers from Saudi Arabia. I realize that the issue is complex but the American people deserve to know the truth. I also realize that too many just don't give a crap and are content to believe the simplistic lies.

And why has the Obama Admin. continued the cover-up?

Why must we always wait 50+ years for major truths to be exposed?




red dog 1

(27,820 posts)
71. Isn't that "Obstruction of Justice"?
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 02:43 PM
Apr 2016

Wasn't "Obstruction of Justice" what Nixon was charged with in Watergate?

WDIM

(1,662 posts)
77. And Clinton is still in cahoots with the Saudis
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:06 PM
Apr 2016

We as a country should cut all ties with murderous brutal dictators around the globe.

lindysalsagal

(20,692 posts)
81. I just got up from a nap and it must be 2001, judging from D,U.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 06:16 PM
Apr 2016

Is the truth really, finally coming out????

Was all that really 15 years ago????

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
83. None Dare Call It Inside Job
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 06:24 PM
Apr 2016

Remember CNN reported in 2000 that the G8 Summit on the island of Genoa needed to be retrofitted with anti-aircraft guns because they were worried people would try to fly planes into the conference as bombs. But Condeleeza testified to Congress that no scenario was ever envisioned and that they had no idea terrorists could do such a thing. Of course, she refused to have her testimony under oath.

KelleyKramer

(8,969 posts)
106. There is actually a word for it. .. Kamikaze
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:48 PM
Apr 2016

That excuse was always such bullshit. Bush's daddy was a pilot in the Pacific during WW2 so they knew damn well a plane could be used as a weapon

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
123. A B-25 Bomber (no bombs onboard) crashed into thr Empire State Building in the 1945,
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 02:48 PM
Apr 2016

causing considerable damage and fire.

https://www.google.com/#q=b+25+bomber+crashes+into+empire+state+building



Before 2001, thee were a number of novels detailing this exact method of attacking tall buildings in the USA.

KelleyKramer

(8,969 posts)
124. In the mid 90s some yahoo tried to crash plane into WH
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 04:43 PM
Apr 2016

Don't remember the exact details, I think it was a small private plane

SomeGuyInEagan

(1,515 posts)
107. Jesus, author Tom Clancey was harping about it in the '90s
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:50 PM
Apr 2016

I remember seeing more than one interview in which he dicussed how D.C. should be a no-fly zone with fighters on patrol at all times there, citing how easy it would be to just fly planes into the White House, the Capitol, the Pentagon, etc. as it was then.

This, from an insurance salesman-turned-novelist. At the very, very best, this was gross incompetence and cover-up after cover-up until today.

C Moon

(12,213 posts)
92. Hopefully this will all come to light some day, and Cheney/Bush will be vilified by history.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 09:05 PM
Apr 2016

It's hard to believe we lived through 8 years of that destructive duo.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
97. What government *hasn't* either sponsored terrorism or had its agents committed it outright?
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 09:44 PM
Apr 2016

Including (perhaps especially) the United States government. Was this country not founded on the viciously brutal enslavement of African peoples in the name of white supremacy, or the effective genocide of Native peoples, and the exploitation of the poor and downtrodden in general? And this has continued throughout history, with our governments's actions during the Cold War being especially abhorrent.

As tempting as it is for the U.S. to throw stones at the Saudis for sponsoring terrorism, our government - and by extension, our country - is living in the biggest glass house on the planet. And us ordinary Americans, far from being passive bystanders in all of this, have actively benefited from the violence against and exploitation of others, both "at home" and around the globe. This is particularly true if you're white, male, straight, cisgender, and/or middle-class (I'm not including the American upper class in "ordinary Americans" because while they obviously benefit the most from the current state of affairs, they are not ordinary, by definition). We all have at least some degree of responsibility for what has happened, is happening, and will continue to happen in this world.

I have no illusions about any of this, and there can be no room for naivety or idealism when dealing with the harsh, cruel, deeply cynical realities of politics. This applies to both American politics as well as international politics. Anyone telling you that there is a one-size-fits-all solution (like say, voting for the "right" presidential candidate, or the U.S. government declassifying the infamous "28 pages" re: 9/11 and Saudi Arabia) is selling you horseshit.

Gregorian

(23,867 posts)
98. One thing I've noticed: justice is much slower for the powerful.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 09:58 PM
Apr 2016

It works on Pinochet time. 1 Pinochet is equal to about 35 years.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
101. Cheney's DoJ was very busy infiltrating all parts. While Cheney burnt and shredded documents.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:10 PM
Apr 2016

Taking care of his golden ticket. Cheney was the master reverse-vampire.

Response to deminks (Original post)

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
103. The Saudis have lost their leverage/bargaining chip with the US
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 11:34 PM
Apr 2016

because the price of oil is in the shitter. Their country is having serious financial problems because the oil-dependent cash flow has been slowed to a crawl.

They control their people by bribing them.

Maybe, just maybe--some inside the US are finally saying, "FU" to the Saudis.

We constantly looked the other way, at a vast myriad of indiscretions committed by the Saudis. Their people are literally political prisoners who are hung in public for the slightest of insubordinations. But we needed access to cheap oil. Oil is cheap now for everyone.

The Saudi psychos have lost their leverage. The mask can be removed now.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
120. Our good friends the Saudis no longer supply US with all the oil
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:24 AM
Apr 2016

we need thx to our gulf coast oil, deepwater drilling and conservation so goodbye to them.

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