We're about to find out what happens when you give poor people basic income for life

[True Earthling]

http://www.businessinsider.com/givedirectly-gives-kenyans-basic-income-2016-4

The underlying assumption was that the poor weren’t good at making decisions for themselves: Experts had to make the decisions for them. As it turns out, that assumption was wrong. Across many contexts and continents, experimental tests show that the poor don’t stop trying when they are given money, and they don’t get drunk. Instead, they make productive use of the funds, feeding their families, sending their children to school, and investing in businesses and their own futures.

Even a short-term infusion of capital has been shown to significantly improve long-term living standards, improve psychological well-being, and even add one year of life. On the other hand, well-intentioned social programs have often fallen short. A recent World Bank study concludes that “skills training and microfinance have shown little impact on poverty or stability, especially relative to program cost.” Moreover, this paternalistic approach is often for naught: Jesse Cunha, for example, finds no differences in health and nutritional outcomes between providing basic foods and providing an equally sized cash program. Most importantly, though, the poor prefer the freedom, dignity, and flexibility of cash transfers—more than 80 percent of the poor in a study in Bihar, India, were willing to sell their food vouchers for cash, many at a 25 to 75 percent discount.

Skeptics, on the other hand, raise many of the typical concerns surrounding cash handouts: Most commonly, they argue that the poor can’t be trusted not to waste the money. More sophisticated critics will raise questions about the affordability of a basic income, or ask whether it wouldn’t be more efficient to simply provide all the capital upfront to the beneficiaries. But fundamentally, the question should be an empirical one: What are the impacts of a universal basic income? And how do they compare with other forms of assistance?

We’re planning to find out. To do so, we’re planning to provide at least 6,000 Kenyans with a basic income for 10 to 15 years. These recipients are some of the most vulnerable people in the world, living on the U.S. equivalent of less than a dollar. And we’re going to work with leading academic researchers, including Abhijit Banerjee of MIT, to rigorously test the impacts.

[djean111]

1. Good.

I just hope a Bain Capital or any "foundations" do not find a way to skim money off of this.

[4Q2u2]

2. Already happening?

Do not many Oil rich Countries around the World give their people yearly stipend? Some of them are enough that nobody needs to work. Now I know some of these Countries are not the paradigm of freedom and respect for rights, but it is already happening.
I know that this for me personally would allow for me to give back to my community even greater.

[OregonBlue]

4. As you pointed out, those countries don't allow sex or drugs or rock and roll so it's not

really a comparison.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

8. That would be termed a Social Dividend. But Basic Income is already happening elsewhere. nt

[jwirr]

12. If I am not mistaken Alaska used to give everyone money

from taxing the oil companies?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

3. K&R and here is a 5th rec to the greatest page

[malthaussen]

5. There are a number of such projects around...

... proposed, completed, or about to be initiated. Should be interesting, if the data aren't buried.

One point I notice has never been raised: given the continued increase in productivity among workers, and advances in automation, even if the majority of recipients of basic income do just goof off and blow it all on booze and drugs, those who work might still produce enough to maintain everyone. It might be useful if we could come up with some way to reward these people, beyond simple material reward.

(just as a caveat, I don't think the majority of recipients would goof off and blow it all on booze and drugs, rather I pose the question: if so, so what?)

-- Mal

[One_Life_To_Give]

6. Devil is in the details

God idea, but IMO easy for well intentioned people to screw up. Inevitably somebody in that group will be an entrepreneur. Then someone will suggest they don't need the money etc. Which eventually means you will dissincentivize work at some boundary condition.

Seems to me the real difficulty is getting past the idea of just helping the poor. And realizing that the basic income needs to be given to everyone from the least amongst us to the Bill Gates of the world.

[Baobab]

22. If they do it they should give it to everybody, i agree

and also it should be enough to live a normal life. most of these proposals sound more like buyouts- where people take some money and agree to drop out of society - I think that what the powers that be want. Remember in 30 years almost everybody will be unemployed unless they have a really high skill level. I think thats a world which we should try to avoid by rising to the challenge of trying to educate everybody who wants it.

To do any of these things we need NO MORE TRADE DEALS- because they block all of them. They give away all the rights we need to do anything positive to corporations SYSTEMATICALLY.

[MillennialDem]

7. It's a brilliant idea for human potential for a number of reasons

1. It cuts down on government overhead. No need for case managers, paperwork filers, etc in unemployment, disability, food stamps, etc

2. It makes people less fearful of losing their job.

3. It gives people who are in relatively well paying jobs they don't like a way out and a chance to do a job they actually enjoy and will be more productive in. Example: if Alice likes Bob's job and Bob likes Alice's job, and they both switch, both will do better. Overall productivity increase.

4. It's excellent for people with mental problems which get exacerbated by stressful jobs.

5. It will allow people to not feel too old to go back to school and get trained for a different job.

6. It will allow people to do jobs they are PASSIONATE about rather than jobs they hate.

7. Corollary to #6 - it will allow people to form new enterprises ideas easier.

[jwirr]

14. Problem with #1 case managers and disability workers will

still be needed. Social Workers do a lot more than hand out money. In fact they seldom hand out money other than contracting for the needs of their clients. Take for example, my daughter - she is completely unable to handle her own finances or life decisions so she needs a case manager. She is also disabled and will need much beyond a simple amount of money to pay for things like foster care, sheltered workshops, therapy, etc.

The amount a regular person would receive would not cover the cost of these other needs.

What you are correct about is that income maintenance workers would no longer be needed and that would be a big step forward.

In #5 I also think that it will take more than that - today you can get as much training as you want - but you need a company that will hire over 50 people. I know many people who are not old enough for Social Services and cannot get a good job because the company is not hiring older workers.

[MillennialDem]

20. For your daughter, things like medical related bills should be covered under single payer or a publi

c option.

[jwirr]

23. Many of them but that is what the case manager documents.

She sends in the necessary paperwork to get Social Security to pay for these things. She is also the person who monitors the care so that the client is getting what she needs. Remember all the cases of foster care and care in facilities that has been so abusive. Well those states are NOT using their right to monitor the care they pay for. My daughter's case manager is part of a team (including myself) that works out the care plan and makes sure it is carried out. No matter what system we use for the care of disabled clients this monitoring is needed. No amount of money will replace it.

And yes I am very thankful for Medicare and years ago medicaid. I does pay for things like foster care, sheltered workshops and etc. but the client cannot manage this care themselves. And even most parents do not know what is available for their child.

If anyone thinks for one minute that a guarantee minimum income is going to close down the social services agencies they do not know what social workers actually do.

They are supposed to protect the vulnerable - disabled and elderly, do child abuse investigation and follow up work with the families, license facilities and counseling. We cannot get rid of these workers.

The income maintenance workers are in a department of their own. The work with cash assistance and they would be replaced by this idea.

[boblgumm]

9. This would probably save money.

To provide basic food, shelter, clothing, health care, and some walking around money would likely cost society less than the costs of current programs and related costs in physical and mental health care, crime, law enforcement, etc.

To take these stressors off the backs of the poor will likely free up their inner creative, entrepreneurial, artistic, community- organizing, job-having muses.

So all rational conservatives should like it. OK all you rational conservatives, let's hear from you. It is certainly worth finding out.

But then, just like we know a dollar spent to help an abused, neglected or delinquent young person saves $2 in social service, imprisonment costs down the road, and we know we are burning up the planet and we don't have to, and single payer health care is better than our scam-care system, and we seem unable to address this stuff, we probably will not be able to move on guaranteed income either.

[jwirr]

15. Once again you are not going to get rid of "related costs in

physical and mental health care or crime enforce" These programs have nothing to do with handing out money. What will not be needed is the income maintenance staff that every county in the USA now hires to see who is eligible for cash assistance programs like welfare and food stamps.

You are a lot like my local newspaper who gave your rational for how the poor should just get jobs (when Hillary and Bill reformed welfare). I made a resume for my severely disabled daughter and sent it to them asking for a job for her. She does not talk, walk, cannot even turn around in her own bed, needs one to one care 24/7 and could not find a job if there was a surplus of jobs. When we talk about the poor we are talking about a lot of people who are like her and we are also talking about both the children and the elderly.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. USA, Canada, Finland, Brazil, Namibia, Denmark, Spain, Germany, UK, Ireland, Iceland, Sweden, Switze

Guaranteed Minimum Income: a means-based model of social welfare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income

The United States has multiple social programs that provide guaranteed minimum incomes for individuals meeting certain criteria such as assets or disability. For instance, Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a United States government program that provides stipends to low-income people who are either aged (65 or older), blind, or disabled. SSI was created in 1974 to replace federal-state adult assistance programs that served the same purpose. Today the program provides benefits to approximately eight million Americans. Another such program is Social Security Disability Insurance (SSD or SSDI), a payroll tax-funded, federal insurance program. It is managed by the Social Security Administration and is designed to provide income supplements to people who are physically restricted in their ability to be employed because of a notable disability, usually a physical disability. SSD can be supplied on either a temporary or permanent basis, usually directly correlated to whether the person's disability is temporary or permanent.

Canada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_Annual_Income
Others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_Annual_Income#Implementation_of_similar_proposals

Brazil: Bolsa Familia[17]
Canada: each province is responsible for implementing their program, in Québec it is known as Bien être social or social welfare
Denmark: Social Bistand
Finland: Toimeentulotuki
Germany, Liechtenstein, Austria: Sozialhilfe
Iceland: Félagsleg aðstoð
Ireland: Supplementary Welfare Allowance / Family Income Supplement
Luxembourg: revenu minimum garanti (RMG)
Netherlands: algemene bijstand, Wet werk en bijstand
Norway: Stønad til livsopphold
Portugal: Rendimento mínimo garantido (replaced in 2003 by the more restrictive Rendimento Social de Inserção)
Spain: several schemes exist depending on the region (Renta Básica, Renta Mínima de Inserción, etc…)
Sweden: Ekonomiskt bistånd, previously called socialbidrag
Switzerland: fr:revenu minimal de réinsertion
UK: Income Support


Basic Income: a system of unconditional income to every citizen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_around_the_world

Pilot programs

The Permanent Fund of Alaska is well established and is perhaps to be seen as a permanent system, rather than a basic income pilot. The same could perhaps be said about Bolsa Familia also. Leaving those two big systems apart, these are some of the most well known basic income pilots up to date.

The experiments with negative income tax in United States and Canada in the 1960s and 1970s.
The experiments in Namibia (starting 2008)
The experiment in Brazil (starting 2008)[23]
The experiments in India (starting 2011)
The GiveDirectly experiment[24]
The study in rural North Carolina[25]

[arikara]

18. Canada does not have a guaranteed minimum income

although there are a couple of pilot projects in the works. In actual fact, welfare is doled out miserly by the provinces, at least in BC. Our so-called Liberal gov't in BC hates poor people and hasn't given a raise of any significance in over a decade. The amount they dole out barely covers rent and recipients have to get their food from the food banks.

I sincerely hope this project works out and its enough so that our disadvantaged people can live with some dignity.

[SharonAnn]

11. Also see these New York Times articles

What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/18/what-happens-when-the-poor-receive-a-stipend/?rref=opinion

Handouts Are Often Better Than a Hand Up
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/07/opinion/handouts-are-often-better-than-a-hand-up.html

[Spitfire of ATJ]

13. Ever notice those who claim God considers work to be a virtue,...

....pray to become rich so they'll never have to work again?

[jwirr]

17. LOL.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

16. Exactly counter to neoliberal ideology! n/t

[RadiationTherapy]

19. Will this money come with financial education or business management

or home economics or farming improvements or anything other than money?

[FLPanhandle]

21. I have a couple of younger brothers that would quit work instantly if given an income.

I'm sure there are plenty more. It'll be interesting how this impacts the workforce and the number of people who will just quit.

[One_Life_To_Give]

24. For many it would depend upon the

For many it would depend upon the level of subsistence granted.

Some might retire having food and a 500sqft shelter. Others might consider that insufficient and would work to have more than just enough to, get by on. Assuming that labor always allowed for a higher standard of living than the just getting by level guaranteed. What won't work is paying people the same wether they labor or not.