Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:37 PM Apr 2016

A popular video game now randomizes your race and gender — and many white men are furious

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/17/11442730/rust-experimental-race-gender-random

Rust is a popular first-person survival video game where you start out completely naked, left to a barren environment to build yourself tools, weapons, and a home as other players try to do the same — and potentially try to kill you and steal your stuff. It's a tense game, one in which your friends can suddenly turn against you and basically ruin everything you worked for just for their own personal gain.

But it's not the betrayal and tension that has gamers upset with Rust. Instead, it's a new feature recently added to the game, which has 500,000 players each week, by developer Garry Newman: Your character's gender and race are now randomized. So even if you're a white man in real life, you now may be forced to play a black woman....

What's odd, instead, is that these same complaints from male, white gamers would very likely fall on deaf ears if they were made by another group — by, say, a black, Hispanic, or female gamer. After all, originally, everyone on Rust was forced to play a bald white man — and there was no similar uproar....

Take this feedback Newman received from one male gamer: "I just want to play the game and have a connection to the character like most other games I play." What this misses is that this male gamer is able to have a connection to the character he plays in most video games because he's a man. Meanwhile, minority and women gamers have for a long time just grown to accept that they're probably going to be stuck playing white male heroes if they pick up a mainstream triple-A game.


Too bad, so sad! Someone call the poor widdle boys a

66 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
A popular video game now randomizes your race and gender — and many white men are furious (Original Post) KamaAina Apr 2016 OP
Used to run paper and pencil role playing games, Mechwarror and Shadowrun, and developed tables to Agnosticsherbet Apr 2016 #1
Even in MW 3 I used the injury tables nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #23
Cyberpunk 2023 Stryst Apr 2016 #40
Recently these assholes got a woman employee for Nintendo fired... Odin2005 Apr 2016 #2
There's more to it than just that. Archae Apr 2016 #19
Whaaaaat? MynameisBlarney Apr 2016 #28
There are plenty of women pedophiles IronLionZion Apr 2016 #34
What a load of horseshit. Odin2005 Apr 2016 #62
I hope you're right. Archae Apr 2016 #63
Then it is definitely BS. Odin2005 Apr 2016 #64
Male gamers are forced to play as Lara Croft for years and don't complain davidn3600 Apr 2016 #3
Don't forget about GTA: San Andreas Quackers Apr 2016 #5
During the GTA: San Andreas days, there were "white CJ" mods. TroubleMan Apr 2016 #8
There were a dozen or so alternate skins, too Orrex Apr 2016 #24
Or Franklin in GTA V or Luis in the ELC GTA IV/Ballad of Gay Tony Gore1FL Apr 2016 #60
I agree. romanic Apr 2016 #7
"Contrived social justice"? Yes, they'd prefer real social injustice whathehell Apr 2016 #36
I think the word you are looking for is, 'hegemony' Crash2Parties Apr 2016 #45
I'd say it's less about social justice and more about social experiment Bradical79 Apr 2016 #14
Gaming is a veritable breeding ground for SHARTs... Act_of_Reparation Apr 2016 #15
not to be stupid but.. Lazy Daisy Apr 2016 #46
Sexist, Homophobic, Anti-Semitic, Racist, Transphobic Act_of_Reparation Apr 2016 #49
It makes me wonder gratuitous Apr 2016 #4
Yes to All. Volaris Apr 2016 #9
"Spontaneously explode in a shivering, quivering, ragegasm" AtheistCrusader Apr 2016 #35
If you go to the interview, he actually says it's Russians and Transgendered people who are mad. Quackers Apr 2016 #6
No, he said "We’ve also received complaints from transgender players."  ronnie624 Apr 2016 #11
Yes, and Russians were already most mad Bradical79 Apr 2016 #18
There are far more white males than transgender people Democat Apr 2016 #20
What do you mean by "dismiss"? ronnie624 Apr 2016 #22
I didn't imply you don't like anyone, I just asked about those complaints Democat Apr 2016 #25
What was it about my post that led you to believe I'm outraged? ronnie624 Apr 2016 #27
As a genderfluid person, I am fairly dismissive of those complaints. Chan790 Apr 2016 #37
Lol. ronnie624 Apr 2016 #10
Yes, some HAVE TO reassure fans on national TV that their small hands don't affect their penis. nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2016 #33
There is definitely a lot of that in Russia FrodosPet Apr 2016 #65
I know many male gamers choose to play RPG as female characters. EllieBC Apr 2016 #12
Sadly, that mindset is nothing new Blue_Tires Apr 2016 #13
Is it tough to give people the option to specifically pick The2ndWheel Apr 2016 #16
There is a specific reason the developers explicitly do not want people to be able to choose. Chan790 Apr 2016 #38
I'm glad they did this. alarimer Apr 2016 #17
I just love the idea that white Males will be playin an yuiyoshida Apr 2016 #21
I am looking forward to that game. alarimer Apr 2016 #56
The Beta version is available but yuiyoshida Apr 2016 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #26
Fair enough. Chan790 Apr 2016 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #44
Kill 'em video games are stupid. nt valerief Apr 2016 #29
Uh, not a big deal. MisterFred Apr 2016 #30
I see lots of people commenting, but no Rust players.... arithia Apr 2016 #31
Smart money says Trump voters. cheapdate Apr 2016 #43
Reincarnation Karma keithbvadu2 Apr 2016 #32
If they don't like it, they can vote with their wallets. tritsofme Apr 2016 #41
I don't play video games, cheapdate Apr 2016 #42
There is a reverse side to this coin. sofa king Apr 2016 #47
i love dayz and rust. stonecutter357 Apr 2016 #53
Seriously? This is what white people are bitching about? Feeling the Bern Apr 2016 #48
I remember the outrage when Burning Crusade landed... Act_of_Reparation Apr 2016 #50
I think the female ones are fucking hot. Feeling the Bern Apr 2016 #52
My kid loves that game trumad Apr 2016 #51
Hardly a popular game Egnever Apr 2016 #54
so... Locrian Apr 2016 #55
I always play a male character that sort of looks like me. AtheistCrusader Apr 2016 #57
This is the character I mostly play: Gore1FL Apr 2016 #59
Kerbal Space Program is awesome! sofa king Apr 2016 #61
I know this is a week old but wanted to bump it. I hate the idea as a white trans woman MillennialDem Apr 2016 #66

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
1. Used to run paper and pencil role playing games, Mechwarror and Shadowrun, and developed tables to
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:40 PM
Apr 2016

randomize ethnic origin and gender.

I thought it added a depth to the roleplay.

I may give this game a try.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
23. Even in MW 3 I used the injury tables
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:03 AM
Apr 2016

From MW 1. It made players that much more careful. We tried that too as well

Stryst

(714 posts)
40. Cyberpunk 2023
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 07:51 PM
Apr 2016

Has a great life path system as part of character creation to generate random backgrounds, kind of like 'previous life' part of character creation in Traveler.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
2. Recently these assholes got a woman employee for Nintendo fired...
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:56 PM
Apr 2016

...because they thought she had something to do with the removal of a "boob size slider" in the character customization screen in the newest version of the anime-themed RPG Fire Emblem in the American localization. These people also threw a fit because Nintendo decided to make a 12yo girl character in the game have less revealing clothes.

Archae

(46,337 posts)
19. There's more to it than just that.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:25 AM
Apr 2016

The woman was pro-pedophilia, using Japanese culture to try and justify her views.

IronLionZion

(45,455 posts)
34. There are plenty of women pedophiles
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 06:10 PM
Apr 2016

any google news search of teacher and sex will reveal more insanity than you knew was possible

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
64. Then it is definitely BS.
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 09:48 PM
Apr 2016

Those fuckers will claim anything to destroy any techie women they don't like.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
3. Male gamers are forced to play as Lara Croft for years and don't complain
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 06:00 PM
Apr 2016

So I don't think being forced to play a woman character or another race is the issue. I think the issue is these gamers think this is being pushed down their throats for the purpose of social justice and not for being some part of the game's story.

Quackers

(2,256 posts)
5. Don't forget about GTA: San Andreas
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 06:10 PM
Apr 2016

That character isn't white. Game players spend lots of money for these high-tech games that include multiple customizations. If a developer suddenly took away your ability to customize, I think you would have a right to be mad. It has nothing to do with racism and sexism.

TroubleMan

(4,859 posts)
8. During the GTA: San Andreas days, there were "white CJ" mods.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:15 PM
Apr 2016

When we mentioned, hey you guys didn't ask for a black Tommy mod in Vice City, out come the closeted racists.

Orrex

(63,215 posts)
24. There were a dozen or so alternate skins, too
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:15 AM
Apr 2016

Male and female of different ethnicities, body types and professions. It was a "cheat" code, but the player was able to choose at will.

The randomizer doesn't bother me in the slightest, as long as gameplay isn't adversely affected. Heck, I could even see an interesting effect whereby a tall, hugely muscled character doesn't (for instance) fit in an aircraft's cockpit as readily as a smaller character.

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
60. Or Franklin in GTA V or Luis in the ELC GTA IV/Ballad of Gay Tony
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:22 PM
Apr 2016

GTA VI is rumored to have a woman protagonist.

romanic

(2,841 posts)
7. I agree.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 06:21 PM
Apr 2016

As a gamer myself and one who regularly attends game conventions (very diverse I may add), I hear the same complaints about contrived "social justice" being inserted in video games.

And no this has nothing to do with Gamergate, Anita Sarkeesian or that lady from Nintendo who got fired; people just want to play games without the politics or some forced agenda.

Crash2Parties

(6,017 posts)
45. I think the word you are looking for is, 'hegemony'
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:44 PM
Apr 2016

Most games do have politics and forced agenda...if the player is not a white male.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
14. I'd say it's less about social justice and more about social experiment
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:16 AM
Apr 2016

In Rust the random race and sex do serve a purpose in the type of world the developers wanted to create. It gives a more realistic proportion of male and female avatars, and combines with the other permanent randomized physical traits to give the player a permanent identity. The end goal is in part at least to make your avatar recognizable to others based on look rather than a name floating above your head. Also, going by the type of game they made and other interviews I've read, I think they find the social aspect (negative reaction and all) particularly fascinating.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
49. Sexist, Homophobic, Anti-Semitic, Racist, Transphobic
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:50 AM
Apr 2016

The double entendre with liquid flatulence certainly is apropos.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
4. It makes me wonder
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 06:05 PM
Apr 2016

What if some of these he-man masters of their universe and domain ever had to face an actual hardship? Would they dissolve in a pool of bitter tears? Curl up under the bed, sobbing, clutching their wubbie and sucking their thumb? Spontaneously explode in a shivering, quivering, ragegasm?

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
35. "Spontaneously explode in a shivering, quivering, ragegasm"
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 06:19 PM
Apr 2016

Wait, is that good or bad?

I'm not sure if I want to sign up for this event.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
11. No, he said "We’ve also received complaints from transgender players." 
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 02:32 AM
Apr 2016

He makes it clear that most of the complaints came from white males, with most of the complaints about race coming from Russia, and that the complaints about gender were "geography-free", clearly meaning that they were more widespread, geographically. He also said that women were the most accepting of the change.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
18. Yes, and Russians were already most mad
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:07 AM
Apr 2016

about possibly ending up black, something that had been part of the game previously.

Democat

(11,617 posts)
20. There are far more white males than transgender people
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:44 AM
Apr 2016

So that statement means nothing on its own.

Do you dismiss the complaints from transgender people?

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
22. What do you mean by "dismiss"?
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:57 AM
Apr 2016

Your question is illogical in this context. Clearly, I acknowledged their complaints.

Are you attempting to imply that I'm bigoted against transgender people? If so, few things could be further from the truth.

Democat

(11,617 posts)
25. I didn't imply you don't like anyone, I just asked about those complaints
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:25 AM
Apr 2016

There are some people on DU with selective outrage.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
27. What was it about my post that led you to believe I'm outraged?
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:59 AM
Apr 2016

And why would you ask me about the complaints? The little bit of information about them is right there in the article, and I neither dismissed them nor disagreed with them. The only point in my initial post, is that most of the complaints came from white males about race and gender. I made no comment whatsoever about the specific complaints from transgender people.

I don't know what your motive is, here, but your posts are pure hokum.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
37. As a genderfluid person, I am fairly dismissive of those complaints.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 06:24 PM
Apr 2016

They're not being singled-out for selective treatment or being imposed upon more than anybody else. The system assigns you an arbitrary gender and race that is durable and permanent within the game. I get their disappointment over not being able to choose their gender in-game...but they hadn't previously been able to either and it's not material to the gameplay.

Equality isn't always freedom...sometimes it's just being shat-upon equally and in the same ways as everybody else.

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
65. There is definitely a lot of that in Russia
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:19 AM
Apr 2016

There is still a lot in the U.S., but not nearly the degree that there is in Russia, the Middle East, and Africa.

EllieBC

(3,016 posts)
12. I know many male gamers choose to play RPG as female characters.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 02:35 AM
Apr 2016

Just so they "have something nice to look at".

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
16. Is it tough to give people the option to specifically pick
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:23 AM
Apr 2016

whatever they want to play as, and a choice to randomize whatever they want to play as? I've played a few games before, and you can usually do either one. I mean, it's not a big deal, at all, either way, because it's just a time sink video game, but no press is bad press I guess.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
38. There is a specific reason the developers explicitly do not want people to be able to choose.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 06:29 PM
Apr 2016

It has to do with enforcing a diversity of appearances necessary to the function of the game. If they let people choose...disproportionate numbers will choose to be male and white in a way that harms gameplay. They need players to be visually differentiated in a diverse enough fashion as to be immediately visually identifyable to peers in the same way that people are. Because of that and how people's choices cluster, player-model choice was never going to be totally possible.

Perhaps there was a better way to do this...such as making everybody purple or green and fat or skinny with androgynous player models...but there wasn't one that was going to allow players to choose race or gender.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
17. I'm glad they did this.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:40 AM
Apr 2016

I swear, white guy gamers and nerds are the whiniest bunch of idiots.

How about making gaming more welcoming to people WHO ARE NOT YOU? Sorry, yelling at the gamer-bros, not the OP.

I love video games and I don't particularly care whether or not I play as a man or woman. If there is an option, I do whatever suits my fancy that day. But there often is no choice. A man (human or otherwise) is the default option. Sort of like life I guess, where white men are the default human beings, everyone else is "other". But I digress.

I'm old enough to remember the hissy fit guys threw when they found out Samus Aran (Metroid, SuperMetroid, the Metroid Prime franchise) was a woman.

yuiyoshida

(41,832 posts)
21. I just love the idea that white Males will be playin an
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:52 AM
Apr 2016

Asian female in the new game of Mirror's Edge



Its great an Asian Female finally in a lead role in a major game!

Response to KamaAina (Original post)

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
39. Fair enough.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 06:53 PM
Apr 2016

I suspect that clothing as a modifier has an impact on gameplay...as in naked people freeze or sunburn or...well, you've been in the field, I assume. You don't need me to tell you that nature and climate are often as much of an enemy as opposing forces.

That said...I don't think BDUs and tee-shirts are protecting anybody from a hell of a lot.

Response to Chan790 (Reply #39)

MisterFred

(525 posts)
30. Uh, not a big deal.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 02:26 PM
Apr 2016

As a gamer, I can tell you that one thing just about ALL gamers want is to be able to customize their avatar. And yes, there HAVE been outcries when female or minority avatars are not available. This article is lying when it says that wouldn't be the case.

arithia

(455 posts)
31. I see lots of people commenting, but no Rust players....
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 05:10 PM
Apr 2016

... so I decided to stop lurking for a hot minute.

I have played this game since a month after initial alpha release. I currently have over 1200 hours logged, which does not include the 1k+ hours logged (and wiped by steam) in the first year of alpha (this game is still in alpha... not even beta, folks!).

Yes. I've played a lot of this glorified Lord of the Flies video game, but there is a lot more to it than that. Its a great "building" game- houses, towns, communities, alliances... you can even role-play a painter on a Dark Ages themed server (courtesy of in game paint tools and canvases) if you aren't into beating each other over the head with rocks.

When I logged in after the "lady" update went live (admins could be female models for months now), the vitriol coming from (primarily) young, white, male players has been horrid. I mean like, groups of men roaming around and ranting in voice chat about how they are going to "rape" female avatars. And then they DISCUSS it in detail, like it's some kinda twisted audio book from Hell.

I hope Garry doesn't bow to the whims of the masses on this one and keeps it randomized. The people complaining about having lady bits are the same jerks I see using gendered insults and racial slurs in general chat.

I suspect they are ultimately afraid they will be subjected to the same hostility and abuse that they heap upon others.

tritsofme

(17,380 posts)
41. If they don't like it, they can vote with their wallets.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 08:09 PM
Apr 2016

Seems pretty easy to me. Markets work pretty well in this regard.

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
42. I don't play video games,
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 08:26 PM
Apr 2016

but the only reaction I've heard firsthand from a twenty-something, white, man that I know was that he was thrilled at this development. As for the rest, f#$k 'em.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
47. There is a reverse side to this coin.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 12:45 AM
Apr 2016

When I was playing Rust's evil cousin, DayZ (also an open-world survival-horror game in development with no rules or objectives beyond those we create for ourselves), I remembered my beloved "asshole filter," as I called my long flowing locks, and how they worked for me. Judgmental bigots avoided me, and I rarely had to deal with their low-information ways.

So I started playing DayZ as a black woman.

Why? Because asshole racists in the game simply tried to kill me on sight. And since I cannot hunt them in real life, I really like hunting racist scum in DayZ.

Just like in real life, racists are non-rational, unethical, low-empathy people who cannot be trusted, and it's even more true in-game where players are willing to risk more to be dicks. For me, the point of the game is to experience the emotions of having to risk all in interactions with other players.

It also made deciding who not to kill easier. People who were willing to interact with me in non-murderous ways were usually more trustworthy, fun to partner with and, duh, better players in general because they don't go through life guided by stupid beliefs.

So being a black woman made it easier for me to find the kinds of people I wanted to play with, and easier to kill those I wanted to hunt.

Don't know if there's a point to this story, but for those of you who don't play a lot of video games I thought you might find it interesting to hear the perspective of someone who likes to use racism against people, since it's an inextricable part of this sort of game.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
48. Seriously? This is what white people are bitching about?
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 04:11 AM
Apr 2016

I play WOW. I have a black Dwarven hunter, a white female paladin and a female worgen (werewolf) death knight. Where is my connection to the game?

Grow the fuck up!

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
50. I remember the outrage when Burning Crusade landed...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:54 AM
Apr 2016

...players felt the male Blood Elf designs were "too gay".

 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
51. My kid loves that game
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:57 AM
Apr 2016

He doesn't care if you are orange. White guys getting pissed about this are morans.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
54. Hardly a popular game
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:02 AM
Apr 2016

Average users per month according to steam is around 27k. That is not by any stretch of today's gaming standards a popular game.

That aside I don't know of any other multi user game that forces your appearance on you.

Still out of that 27k I wonder how many are actually upset about it.

I would bet it isn't many

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
55. so...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:16 AM
Apr 2016

a "survival game" where the main goal is to survive difficulties - war, zombies, food shortages, etc but your own ingenuity and creativity as a test of your skill.

But add an extra dimension of being "different" (does it factor challenges based on size, ethnicity, gender, ? - that could be interesting ) and people suddenly lose their shit?

I guess it could just be people want to fantasize an "image" - to me that seems less interesting and challenging.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
57. I always play a male character that sort of looks like me.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:37 AM
Apr 2016

I know a LOT of male gamers and they all pick female avatars because they 'don't want to look at a dude's ass all day', which I find kind of creepy and weird.

I wouldn't be bothered by a randomization system, if it applied to all accounts. But normally I try to make my character look like me. Sometimes I meet people in meatspace from gaming communities, and it makes me a little bit recognizable.

I generally want people to see me as me, so I make my representation in a game more or less as close to me as I can.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
61. Kerbal Space Program is awesome!
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 03:57 PM
Apr 2016

But I have to admit that I have killed a lot of little green people. I'm like the Walter Dornberger of KSP.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
66. I know this is a week old but wanted to bump it. I hate the idea as a white trans woman
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:45 AM
Apr 2016

I hated having to play games as a dude. It's why I won't even bother playing the Witcher.

I like character customization and choices.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»A popular video game now ...