General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSwitzerland to recognise homeopathy as legitimate medicine
"The interior ministry has announced plans to give five complementary therapies including homeopathy the same status as conventional medicine.
"Homeopathy, holistic medicine, herbal medicine, acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine will acquire the same status as conventional medicine by May 2017 when it comes to health insurance..."
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/complementary-therapies_swiss-to-recognise-homeopathy-as-legitimate-medicine/42053830
This factual news about the informed, free-will decision of the educated and discerning people of Switzerland will - pundits speculate - stimulate the ongoing systemactic, regularly scheduled barrage of Homeopathy Hippie Punching, Inc.
Please fling all umbrage, bile and wild-eyed accusations of alleged STUPIDITY at the people of Switzerland. I'm just reporting on their informed, discerning decision.
Please note while TRUMPeters will allege that Switzerland is STUPID, that is a stupid accusation. Switzerland ranks 8th for most informed and educated people, while the US is ranked way down the list at 28th.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/global-school-rankings-interactive-map-shows-standards-of-education-across-the-world-10247405.html
MinnieBlum
(38 posts)Having lived for many years in Switzerland, many alternative medical treatments have always been covered by some insurance policies.
Obamacare is based on Romneycare which was basically a reinterpretation of the Swiss system of private health care. In Switzerland, every resident from birth (or from arrival in the country) must purchase private health insurance. If a resident is financially incapable (and the Swiss really mean financially incapable, not unwilling to part with the money), the Cantonal governments can subsidize part or all of the insurance coverage.
Health insurance is expensive unless your employer pays for it of course (which is very, very rare in Switzerland). And if you want coverage for alternative medicines, that's even more expensive. There is no Medicare system as there is here, so elderly people (unless they are indigent) still have to pay high premiums.
Health care is excellent though, ranking among the best in the world. I had a 25 year old part-time employee, a girl from Texas. She was doing her master's degree at the Interpreter's School in Geneva. She complained bitterly about being obliged to purchase healthcare as her mother's US policy no longer covered her and, in any case, the Swiss don't accept foreign policies for people who are resident in Switzerland.
She was diagnosed a few months after she had arrived with Stage IV renal cell carcinoma which has a prognosis of 6 months to live. A kidney had to be removed. Then brain surgery to remove tumors. Further brain surgery to remove tumors. Gall bladder surgery. She was in and out of the hospital over a 2 year period and taking a medication which cost $7K a month as chemo does not work with renal cell carcinoma. She lived for more than 3 years despite the initial estimate of 6 months. She couldn't return to the States because she had no health insurance there and her Swiss coverage didn't extend to the US.
Despite the fact it must have been obvious to her physicians her case was hopeless, they spared no effort and no expense in trying desperately to save her life. She must have racked up millions of dollars in hospital bills alone.
So much for "death panels".
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)With all of those mountains, I'd expect them to vote against gravity.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)I could see them arguing for a reduction of the force referenced as 1G.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)The Section provides education to members of the UNM HSC, in medical student lectures, clinics with residents, and grand rounds in family practice and internal medicine. The Section is working to include integrative medicine in the School of Medicine curriculum and has a collection of textbooks, papers, and journals in integrative medicine.
The Section is actively engaged in several research projects, including medical student projects on student and faculty attitudes toward integrative medicine, complementary and alternative medicine therapies for arthritis, and issues concerning integrative medicine use in primary care clinics in New Mexico.
http://medicine.unm.edu/education/integrative/index.html
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)you have probably never tried any alternative therapies.
My allergy doctor affiliated with one of the largest hospitals in NM - god forbid - actually treats allergies with homeopathy - and it works - I am cured!
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Homeopathy is pure and absolute nonsense. It has zero scientific basis. In fact the claims of how it works violate basic principles of science.
You were not cured by homeopathy. Such a claim is utter hogwash.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)that her allergy shots don't work.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)They do not contain any other ingredients (or, in pill form, they're just the filler for a pill - no active ingredient). That's how allergy shots differ - they actually contain something.
What the woman above received was a placebo. It's designed to fool her into thinking she's been treated, and to get money for that. It's an excellent way of making a living - charging for nothing - but unethical.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)You really do not know the difference between an allergy shot and homeopathy? You think they are equivalent?
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)that if you repeatedly divide (dilute) a solution of some toxin, eventually the concentration of the toxin will become negative. Apparently the confusion is between division and subtraction.
Homeopaths argue that water has a memory. ― Scarlett Thomas, The End of Mr. Y
Occult Medicine is essentially sympathetic. Reciprocal affection, or at least real goodwill, must exist between doctor and patient. Syrups and juleps have very little inherent virtue; they are what they become through the mutual opinion of operator and subject; hence homoeopathic medicine dispenses with them and no serious inconvenience follows.
― Éliphas Lévi, Transcendental Magic: Its Doctrine and Ritual
http://www.1023.org.uk/what-is-homeopathy.php
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)relation to treating allergies. Water, whether drunk, taken in tablets or pills or injected does not.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)I bet you have not.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)It doesn't cure cancer or AIDS or the Zika virus. Although it's good at slaking thirst, if you have enough of it.
D Gary Grady
(133 posts)I bought something over the counter for an earache at a drugstore and didn't even notice it was homeopathic until after I'd tried it. As it happened, my earache didn't get better, but that proves nothing. Illnesses get better or worse for a variety of reasons, and in an individual case it's hard to be sure of the cause.
It makes more sense to test drugs in a way that takes into account the fact that various things, even our own positive and negative expectations, can throw off the results. Unfortunately, on the rare occasions that homeopathic remedies are tested that way, they don't do very well.
Many people think that homeopathy has something to do with natural remedies, but it's actually something invented in the late 1700s based only theory and possibly an erroneous guess about how inoculation worked. The theory is that (1) somehow "like cures like" (illnesses can be treated by substances that cause the same symptoms), (2) high dilutions make a drug more effective (homeopathic dilutions are often so extreme that literally none of the original substance is found in a given dose), and (3) the underlying disease is irrelevant; just treat the symptoms (even though very different diseases can produce almost identical symptoms, such as hemorrhagic and ischemic stroke).
If homeopathy really worked, we'd all be taking homeopathic medicine all the time every time we eat or drink something with water in it. All water has been through a vapor phase then had something diluted in it that was then naturally percussed and re-diluted multiple times.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)It's 1,000,000,000x diluted with cocaine, opioids, bong water, and every damned chemical that will otherwise bake, fry, or torque your brain.
(According to homeopathic *cough* "theory" the more something is diluted, the stronger it is.)
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)Read up about 'placebo effect'. Some people get better because they believe what they are doing makes them better. Doesn't mean that what they did works for a general population.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)of the solute in homeopathic remedies, and they'll see that there are zero molecules in solution. Then they're reduced to 'water memory' or other woo. It's like no one took chemistry in high school.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Homeopathic doctors who first insisted on cleanliness and hygiene, some 75 years before Lister came on the scene.
I can't think of any homeopathic remedies I have even tried, but several elderly clients I had loved this or that homeopathic remedy. I never understand why people can't embrace alternatives - the homeopathic community certainly doesn't have the tremendously upsetting record of all these new medicines, which might relieve a person of their arthritis pain or psoriasis but cause stroke, paralysis, asphyxiation and even death. And these prescription meds can cost a small fortune to boot, while doing you in!
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I doubt very seriously you were "cured". There is no cure for allergies known today.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Even more importantly, how severe was the reaction, and how long between reactions and when you got treated.
Allergies can actually change over time, you can be allergic to something as a child or young adult, and lose that reaction as you get older, the reverse is also true.
Technically, there is no cure for any allergy.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Uneducated city sprayers sprayed our neighborhood for mosquitoes 4 nights in a row from trucks. It came through my screen door while I was sleeping. The whole neighborhood was ill - all the little kids got asthma & big digestive problems including my grand daughter . I got reactive airway disease. The ambulance was always on our block - taking all the little kids to the emergency room. I could not stop salivating 24/7 and could not even enter my house without swaying. In checking the city records, the city had been spraying my neighborhood with various pesticides for yrs, but this was their biggest mistake and the first time they used Malathion. I would awake in the night unable to breathe and when I checked their spraying records - the days always coincided with my trips to the emergency room. The docs at the hospital told me they had so many people come to the hospital with breathing problems when the city was spraying. I actually called the Albuquerque newspaper and my neighborhood story covered almost the entire front page. When I spoke with the men who did the spraying, they said it was some old malathion they found in the shed that they were using. Malathion gets way more toxic when it's old and warm.
After that I could not leave my house for a year or barely eat - I became extremely allergic or intolerant to everything -Bronchospasm is scary because you always think you are about to die. I was diagnosed with environmental illness caused by pesticide exposure and had to go on disability. I would get bronchospasm from car exhaust, smoke, paint fumes, sulfur vegetables just cooking on the stove, perfume, etc. I could not even read the newspaper because the ink bothered me. The docs at the local hospital recommended a dr in Los Alamos, NM who was a childrens allergy specialist and also had success with adults diagnosed with environmental illness. She helped me big time and part of her treatment was testing me for all the chemicals and foods I was reacting to and treating me with desensitizing homeopathic allergy drops.
I now live in a very rural area which I think really helped me too - no car exhaust, industry, farming. I would say I am about 95% recovered but still avoid certain foods and smelly items. My boyfriend helped me build an environmentally friendly house .
I know there is a difference between food allergy and food intolerance. I know I had a food allergy to nuts and shrimp but a food intolerance to other foods. For one year I only ate bananas, oranges and yogurt. If I ate anything else I would cough for a hour or two or my throat would start closing. Now I can eat most anything but I only eat fresh organic food. I can go into most stores but if I start smelling something, I know to leave immediately.
I am Facebook friends with some of the kids who had asthma in my old neighborhood and three of them still have occasional problems with asthma. It was a small dead end block with only 8 houses so the percent of people who became ill was high. The problem was that our block dead ended by the ditch and river and the city heavily sprayed that area without reporting they were going to spray.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 19, 2016, 12:03 AM - Edit history (1)
You seem to think that you can make things up in order to justify the promotion of unethical BS.
That's not ok. The reality is that you are making implausible claims with no evidence to support them. And that includes supporting the completely debunked nonsense of homeopathy.
It's time to stop.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)does not make someone very sick?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)You have repeatedly posted ludicrous claims that were easily debunked. Your anecdote is not worth the time of day. Try again.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)You hate any type of alternative medicine. You are pro GMO's, pesticides and Monsanto. Many of your posts are very rude.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Nice try.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)An herbal remedy, for instance, makes scientific sense. Asprin was once willow bark, for instance.
But diluting something 10 million times with water, all you end up with is water.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)I don't care if you do a traditional rain dance, and then when it rains, take credit-- the fact that you're 'cured' doesn't mean that the treatment had anything to do with it.
AxionExcel
(755 posts)I'm not promoting anything. I'm reporting a fact: Switzerland is recognizing homeopathy as a legitimate modality of healing.
You are free to hate facts. But please, for the sake of accuracy, direct your rage at the 8.2 million highly educated people of Switzerland.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Many insurers are pushing for bullshit quack practices to be allowed. It is far cheaper to give someone a vial of water than it is to send them to a real doctor.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)and 34% actually believe in chem trails- Being good at History doesn't count LOL
Heidi
(58,237 posts)I only ask because I've lived in Switzerland for more than 15 years, am married to a Swiss man, and don't know anyone of driving age who can't change a tire or anyone at all who believes in chemtrails. I do know a handful of Swiss people who believe in homeopathy (which my husband and I believe is absolute bunk in every respect except for a possible placebo effect).
Please cite your sources.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And that makes sense on an OP promoting a fiction-based "treatment," that can only be laughed at, uh, except when it's pushed as a treatment for real world diseases.
Heidi
(58,237 posts)I agree with your assessment of the OP.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)than it is here .
I never had any luck with homeopathy. I tried a few times and it did nothing for me.
elljay
(1,178 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)it will stop nausea instantly for me.
Peregrine Took
(7,415 posts)interstitial cystitis.
Homeopathy is subtle - definitely takes much longer to notice improvement but it happens and there are no side effects that I ever found.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)as I have had interstitial cystitis in the past.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)cures hunger for many
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Or is Nox Vomica a solution of water with no Nux Vomica in it?
Here is what WebMD thinks of Nux Vomica.
Nux vomica is UNSAFE. Taking nux vomica for more than a week, or in high amounts of 30 mg or more, can cause severe side effects. Some of these side effects include restlessness, anxiety, dizziness, neck and back stiffness, spasms of jaw and neck muscles, convulsions, seizures, breathing problems, liver failure, and death.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
No one should take nux vomica, but certain people are especially at risk for toxic side effects. These side effects are especially dangerous if you have any of the following conditions:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Taking nux vomica can harm both mother and child. Dont use it.
Liver disease: The strychnine in nux vomica can cause liver damage or make liver disease worse. Dont use it.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)cut all the trees and fill up the air since Jesus is coming, look busy
the configurations really are different country by country
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)The forests are not doing so well.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Other countries don't let the companies do the testing.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)http://www.mayo.edu/research/centers-programs/complementary-integrative-medicine/complementary-integrative-medicine-program/overview
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)I didn't see anything about homeopathy on that page.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)offers homeopathy - link earlier in this thread.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Way to go New Mexico!
Er,,wait....
MowCowWhoHow III
(2,103 posts)Both pre and post 'treatment'.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Such systems are to save the insurance companies money.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)- combining treatments -
MowCowWhoHow III
(2,103 posts)Are you worried about data collection?
Ptah
(33,032 posts)com·pli·men·ta·ry
ˌkämpləˈmen(t)ərē,ˌkämpləˈmentrē/
adjective
adjective: complimentary
1.
expressing a compliment; praising or approving.
"Jennie was very complimentary about Kathy's riding"
synonyms: flattering, appreciative, congratulatory, admiring, approving, commendatory, favorable, glowing, adulatory; informalrave
"complimentary remarks"
antonyms: derogatory
2.
given or supplied free of charge.
"a complimentary bottle of wine"
com·ple·men·ta·ry
ˌkämpləˈment (ə rē/
adjective
adjective: complementary
1.
combining in such a way as to enhance or emphasize the qualities of each other or another.
"three guitarists playing interlocking, complementary parts"
synonyms: harmonious, compatible, corresponding, matching, twin; More
supportive, reciprocal, interdependent
"decorating in complementary colors and patterns"
antonyms: incompatible
Biochemistry
(of gene sequences, nucleotides, etc.) related by the rules of base pairing.
2.
of or relating to complementary medicine.
"complementary therapies such as aromatherapy"
REP
(21,691 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)and also let them drink water? Got it.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)They're gullible.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)but you have zero interest in actual science so this will be wasted
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-swiss-report-on-homeopathy/
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)You guys always pull up that site.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)The fact that you can't debunk anything on it with actual science shows that. The fact that some can't see that Integrative Therapy is a way to make money off patients despite a lack of evidence supporting its use is a bit astounding to see at DU.
BTW, the OP has misrepresented the reality of homeopathy in Switzerland.
http://www.smw.ch/content/smw-2012-13594/
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)"There is just no acceptable level of any chemical to ingest, ever."
-- Vani Hari, a.k.a. The Food Babe
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)A chemical here - A chemical there - it all adds up. Then add to that air quality and auto exhaust - it's endless. You gotta love The Food Babe - she is taking on all the corporations. Do we really need bromate, human antiobiotics, sulfur dioxide, BHA, BHT, sodium nitrate, sodium sulfite, food dyes, msg, high fructose corn syrup, articifical sweeteners, propyl gallate, butane, carrageenan, polysorbate to, etc. in our food.
Changes the Food Industry made because of The Food Babe:
http://foodbabe.com/2016/01/01/the-exciting-changes-the-food-industry-made-in-2015-because-of-us/
General Mills and Kellogs dumping BHT in their cereals
Hershey's & Nestles removing artificial colors and favors and Hershey's chocolate - no more GMO's, rBST, vanillin etc .
McDonalds & Cosco & Pilgrim Pride & Tyson- will stop using chickens that were treated with antiobiotics meant for humans
Dunkin' Donuts - removed titanium dioxide from their powdered sugar
Kraft = dumping artificial colors from Mac & Cheese
Chipolte - dumped GMO's
Papa John's Pizza - removing 14 ingredients including, sodium benzoate, hidden MSG, artificial colors et.
the list goes on with Cambells, Starbucks, Subway, Schwans, Guiness Beer, etc. removing chemicals from their food.
I don't understand why you laugh - The Food Babe is pushing companies to serve healthier food.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)toxic chemicals and pesticides.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)not drowning, but ingest too much water in too short a time and all sorts of effects occur, some of them quite severe(and fatal), such as swelling of the brain.
The key is to make sure the levels of everything you ingest are at safe levels, too much of anything is bad, period.
Oh, and just an FYI, you ingest pesticides every day, most of which are naturally occurring, caffeine is an example of one, and its also more toxic that glyphosate at the same doses.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)It all adds up you know.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Even the ubiquitous dihydrogen monoxide is lethal if over ingested, and yet it is 100% necessary to sustain life.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The dose is what makes the poison.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)I soak in them twice a year. If I soaked everyday in them I might get too much arsenic in my body.
Same with food. Daily doses of pesticide and glysophate are not for me.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)For one thing, there's no dermal absorption of glyphosate. For another, glyphosate doesn't bioaccumulate in the body.
Virtually every plant has some level of naturally occurring pesticide, so short of giving up all plant based food sources along with everything that eats plant based food sources your culinary options for not getting a daily dose of pesticide is pretty much limited to eating things like rocks and hubcaps.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Glyphosate is a possible carcinogen. I never spoke of dermal absorption of glyphosate.
World Health Organization Wont Back Down From Study Linking Monsanto to Cancer
http://www.globalresearch.ca/world-health-organization-wont-back-down-from-study-linking-monsanto-to-cancer/5439840
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)that won't back down - that tells you something.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)They also say cell phones, aspirin, coffee, bacon, ethyl alcohol, and shift work causes cancer. How many of those things have you given up?
The EFSA and the EU, which actually does regulate pesticides, says the IARC is full of shit, as does pretty much every agency that regulates pesticides on the planet, the rest of the WHO, and virtually every scientific advocacy organization on the planet.
EFSA and the EU Member States have finalised the re-assessment of glyphosate, a chemical that is used widely in pesticides. The report concludes that glyphosate is unlikely to pose a carcinogenic hazard to humans and proposes a new safety measure that will tighten the control of glyphosate residues in food. The conclusion will be used by the European Commission in deciding whether or not to keep glyphosate on the EU list of approved active substances, and by EU Member States to re-assess the safety of pesticide products containing glyphosate that are used in their territories.
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/151112
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The reason why you don't understand why I laugh is because neither food babe or yourself have any idea what "chemical" actually means, while simulateously living in mortal fear of them.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Why do you want so many chemicals in your food? I know there are natural chemicals in food but why do I have to have additives in my food. In Europe, there are far less additives in food than in the usa.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If so, why?
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Most of the teaching medical centers do.
Integrative Health Services
NYU Langone offers integrative health and wellness programs to complement your conventional healthcare. Programs are offered to patients and caregivers, and anyone else in the NYU Langone community.
Integrative health can help you as you prepare for treatment, during your hospital stay, and after discharge. We can help you manage the physical and emotional side effects of your treatment, as well as provide services that help you stay well.
Our services include mind-body bedside care, wellness groups, acupuncture, guided imagery, massage, energy therapies, yoga, and more. Our staff of licensed professionals works with nearly 5,000 people per year, including more than 3,000 through our Mind-Body Patient Bedside Program and more than 400 through the Prepare for Surgery, Heal Faster program.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)because it's the current fad. People want it, they want people. Medicine has been wrong before, although I think if you look closely, they aren't even saying it works, they use weasel language. They know damn well it's bunk.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)"...
On the basis of these considerations, integrated medicine cannot be much more than a superfluous, misleading and counterproductive distraction. But the most powerful argument against integrated medicine originates from the bogus and often dangerous things that are happening every day in its name.
If we look around us, go on the internet, read the relevant literature, or walk into an integrated medicine clinic, we are sure to find that behind all these politically correct slogans of holism and best of all worlds there lurks the face of pure quackery.
...
The message here seems all too obvious: integrated medicine clinics offer a bizarre array of therapies, most of which are not based on anything that might remotely resemble sound evidence.
...
Integrated medicine is little more than a front designed to appear attractive and convincing to consumers, healthcare professionals and policy makers. Anyone looking behind the façade will find boundless amounts of quackery being promoted by a spectrum of people ranging from naïve charlatans, unable to think critically, to irresponsible entrepreneurs, out to make a fast buck."
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)progressoid
(49,991 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)drugs and western medicine is not the end all be all answer for healing. Moreover it's a self-sustaining big profit making industry rather than a true curing and healing system.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)Will ya?
--imm
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)healthier and better lives, and survive conditions and diseases(some eliminated) that killed our ancestors en mass?
What is this so called "ancient wisdom" that apparently is so great that it didn't greatly effect mortality rates at all?
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)society has created.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)chronic immune diseases to list, but Systemic Lupus almost took my life. So I KNOW WHAT IT IS TO LIVE A LIFE WITH CHRONIC DISEASE! Geezis!
Answer: AIDS, explosion of Cancer and Auto-Immune diseases. Theses diseases have proliferated because of the billionaire industrialists' bad habit of rabidly polluting our air, water, soil. Massive releases of toxic radiation, heavy metals, poisonous chemicals in to our home has turned the earth into one great big polluted sewer and our bodies have not evolved sufficiently to handle the heavy toxic load we are ladened with.
bdwker
(435 posts)eliminates all toxins and negative ions.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)It makes a hell of a mess.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)both diagnoses are down and so is mortality.
Also, the prevalence of autoimmune disorders may be due to the lack of exposure to infectious agents and irritants. Pollution is always a concern, but here's something that's key, none of this justifies advocating quackery to replace effective treatments for disease. Despite this being a "polluted sewer" as you so elegantly called it, we still are living longer and healthier lives than our ancestors.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)levels of pollution. Sorry but the science on that subject is not there.
How many people living theses long lives are living quality lives?
Please provide me with evidence that cancer rates and AIDS rates in Africa are down.
Please provide me with evidence that proven wholistic therapies are bad.
Otherwise take your silly arguments to someone else.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Seems like a double standard.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Fuck yes I can say, with absolute certainty, that AIDS isn't caused by pollution, but by HIV.
As for your second question, why don't you ask them?
As for your third, that's called moving the goal posts, I was referring to the United States, but if you want more detail, here:
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/19/8/1893.full
See if you can read an actual academic journal.
In addition, give an example of a "proven" holistic therapy. Just one. In addition, define what you mean by "holistic".
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)When all the buulshit starts to fly in formation, it's just not that difficult to pinpoint where it comes from.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)of taking hold.
Wholistic.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)Do you have a link to the studies done on the pollution->AIDS connection? I'd like to read them.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)But you made a specific claim about a link between AIDS and pollution and I'd like to see the evidence for it.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)environment in the body for ANY virus (AIDS is caused by a virus) bacteria, parasite to flourish.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)relevant to whether you are susceptible to contracting the disease or developing symptoms later. There are plenty of viruses and bacteria that our bodies, with a healthy immune system, fight off day in and day out without breaking a sweat, HIV is NOT one of them. While a small minority of people have been able to carry the disease without showing symptoms, such as Magic Johnson, we are still not clear as to why.
In fact, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going by memory here, but one of the ways that HIV is so effective when transmitted and able to invade T-cells is that it fools the immune system into not seeing it at all. It also is persistent in that it hides in those cells even when patients take the most powerful antivirals available.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)that there's a connection between AIDS and pollution. You made the connection - I'm just asking for the proof.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)AIDS is a specific syndrome whose cause is well known, well studied, and a lot of people are working on cures/vaccines for it. Right now we have been able to treat HIV so as to prevent AIDS from manifesting itself through a lifetime cocktail of antivirals that are far too expensive, but whose effectiveness no one can deny.
Indeed, AIDS itself doesn't even kill the person, opportunistic infections/conditions do after the immune system has been suppressed/destroyed by the syndrome itself.
Also, just a note, its holistic. Not sure where the spelling you use comes from.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Please provide me with evidence that wholistic therapies are effective.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)not that its really relevant to the discussion at hand.
progressoid
(49,991 posts)Of course if it works, it's likely been proved to work through proper testing. And then it becomes part of "modern medicine".
No one is claiming western medicine is the be all, end all. But it generally has more proof of efficacy than just anecdotal claims by the people pushing their snake oils.
Also, let's not kid ourselves, "alternative" medicine isn't an altruistic system. It's also a multi-billion dollar industry. The big difference is that it isn't regulated or tested for effectiveness like "modern" medicine is. So in that sense, homeopathy etc., is more dishonorable. It makes claims it can't support with any repeatable proof and preys on the naive and innocent.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Promoting remedies that have proven efficacy isn't even in the same ballpark as quackery like homeopathy. The snake oil business is doing better today than it ever has and ranges everything from local Christian "Science" hucksters to big business like Mercola. Much of the worthless garbage is even sold in big name pharmacies. Comparing that level of fleecing to the pharmaceutical industry is comical.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)What about Vioxx?
increased risk of heart attack and stroke; linked to about 27,785 heart attacks or sudden cardiac deaths between May 20, 1999 and 2003.
What about Redux?
Redux is better known as "Fen-Phen" when prescribed with Phentermine. [div class="excerpt"
http://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005528 - other "tested" drugs
progressoid
(49,991 posts)Comfrey, Pennyroyal, etc.
Consumer Reports reveals that of 54,000 supplements listed in the Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database, only a third have any scientifically supported level of safety and efficacy. Twelve percent are linked to safety concerns or quality issues. The report calls attention to health risks including cardiovascular, liver and kidney problems; contamination with nasty things like heavy metals due to poor quality control and inspection; and raw ingredients sourced in China, where factories are riddled by lax standards.
Now, plenty of people read statistics like this and say, Its all a war waged by Big Pharma to take away my 'health freedom.' But increasingly, Big Pharma and Big Herba are indistinguishable. The very same mega-companies with gigantic chemical labs that make drugs are cooking up vitamin and herbal supplements labeled with sunny terms like natural and wholesome. Pfizer, Unilever, Novartis, GlaxoSmithKline and other big pharmaceutical firms make or sell supplements. Procter & Gamble Co. and Arm & Hammer are also in on the action. Wall Street is getting in on the game, too: the Carlyle Group, a private-equity titan, owns NBTY (formerly Nature's Bounty), whose brands include Nature's Bounty, Sundown Naturals, Puritan's Pride, and Vitamin World.
So many people worried about having to spend money at the doctor. So much money to be made!
When they make supplements, companies dont have to play by the same rules as when they make drugs. The FDA was launched in 1906 to regulate food and drugs because of the proliferation of snake oil salesmen and other hucksters who went door to door selling products claiming to promote health but containing all manner of surprising secret ingredients, like grain alcohol. But in 1994, partly because of the strong financial ties between the supplement industry and lawmakers (Im looking at you, Sen. Orrin Hatch), the controversial Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) was passed which allowed dietary supplements to operate with little regulation. The supplement industry, as a result, does not have to do thorough trials for safety and efficacy. And they dont necessarily have to alert consumers about harmful side-effects.
Even when a supplement is clearly shown to be harmful, its difficult for the FDA to step in and ban it. Just take the case of ephedra, which people used to take for weight loss and to boost energy. Despite mounting evidence of dangerous effects, in some cases fatal, manufacturers challenged a 2004 FDA ban and got it overturned. It took the U.S. Court of Appeals to restore the ban in 2006.
http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/big-herba-out-control-why-vitamins-minerals-and-herbal-remedies-can-be-dangerous
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)http://www.webmd.com/balance/tc/chelation-therapy-topic-overview
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved EDTA chelation therapy as a treatment for lead and heavy metal poisoning. It is also used as an emergency treatment for hypercalcemia (excessive calcium levels) and the control of ventricular arrhythmias (abnormal heart rhythms) associated with digitalis toxicity.
http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/ethylenediaminetetraacetic-acid
progressoid
(49,991 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 23, 2016, 03:00 AM - Edit history (1)
Widely misused by people who think their bodies are flooded with heavy metals.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And legit sources.
progressoid
(49,991 posts)Who makes sure the "medicine" is the proper strength? Or if they have the ingredients they claim? Or if they are even effective at all?
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And you would not none happy with the outcome.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)How about a good old-fashioned blood letting to let those bad humours out?
Oh wait, you get to pick and choose which of the 'traditional' healing techniques are good, but others are crap?
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Or that the mercury wasn't 'blessed' enough, or that the moon was in the wrong phase.
Ever hear a homeopath change their mind about their stupid shit?
Of course, not.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)many countries have banned it. Sweden even pays to have it replaced with safe materials.
Still keep unsafe drugs on market. Still deny global warming.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts).. is not in harmony.
Chiropracty doesn't cure your diabetes? Well, you must have a subluxation that needs adjusting.
If science were as stuck as stupid-shit homeopathy, we'd still be using leeches and trepannation to let the bad humours out.
Re global warming-- who the fuck do you think studied the issue and raised the possibility 40-some years ago? It sure as shit wasn't a homeopath. No, it was climate researchers.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)If my leg were broken, I don't care what interpretive dance you do, give me some actual medicine.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Controlling one's diet is part of managing diabetes. Carb counts, carbs derived from fiber v processed starches.. testing regimes, long acting and short acting insulins.. that's how you manage diabetes.
But taking water and pretending it has some actual scientific value for something other than quenching thirst? Is paying a goddamned quack.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)He takes money from Bayer among other drug makers - pharmaceutical funding. Of course, he is against anything alternative - it's his bread and butter.
http://www.truthwiki.org/david-gorski/
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It is written by multiple physicians, and they are fully open about their sources of money.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-pharma-shill-gambit/
It is ugly to make such deceitful attacks upon others without justification.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)I enjoyed checking out this Exposing David Gorski Facebook Page - Your sciencebasedmedicine reports are not science based they are just the opinions of a pharma shill. Just Google his name.
https://www.facebook.com/ExposingDrDavidHGorskiAkaOrac/
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Your use of character assassination deceit is ugly and wrong.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)pretending to be a woman. He is a nobody in the science world. He's an assistant professor and breast cancer dr. Plus he is known for speaking of himself in the third person - how creepy is that.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)You appear to be completely unable to support your baseless claims.
You owe DU an apology.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)You are always having your posts hidden for being rude and a women posted a copy of a very sick email you sent to her on DU. She posted a warning of the type of email we might get from you.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Thanks for the admission.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)they aren't getting their money's worth. He's been skeptical of drugs as well as woo.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I look forward to the consequences of you calling the nation out. As well, I'm certain the call-out will be observed, measured and tested.... unless of course, your post was simply a "waste" as well.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Many of our medicines from statins to aspirin were based upon plant secondary metabolites (my graduate work was in some of these compounds). Herbal medicine is founded in chemistry and pharmacology.
To that end, homeopathy is fucking stupid, stupid, stupid. Water retaining a "memory" has to be the dumbest shit I have ever heard.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Are you right and they are wrong?
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Shall I quote him or do you know it?
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)scamming people! Lots and lots of money!
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)is not to bring back liars and snake oil salesmen.
progressoid
(49,991 posts)For homeopathy: No research and development. No testing needed. No oversight. No ingredients but water.
All you need is gullible people.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)eShirl
(18,494 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Acupuncture is only a more elaborate placebo.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Especially acupressure with release of endorphins, but I don't believe it aids digestion or other such nonsense. Most chiropractic medicine is bullshit too although heat, massage, etc that some employ has merit.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)As for acupuncture, I once gave it the benefit of the doubt. That benefit was misgiven.
http://www.dcscience.net/2013/05/30/acupuncture-is-a-theatrical-placebo-the-end-of-a-myth/
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/02/17/psychological-correlates-of-the-placebo-that-is-acupuncture/
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/exercise-better-acupuncture-treat-lower-back-pain
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Two ACLs, and one LCL, plus L4/L5 spinal fusion. I still bench press at powerlifting meets. Deep tissue massage to break up scar tissue was very helpful in my recoveries and part of every PT regimen I have been through.
Tens units helped a lot with the fusion. Hydrocodone worked too but I don't like taking that for any longer than necessary.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts).... and I endorse you post.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)The highly educated people of Germany once were head over heels about Hitler.
Today, the highly educated people of Russia have a majority positive view of Stalin.
I am not familiar as to what led the highly educated people of Switzerland to validate homeopathy, acupuncture and other unproven medicines, but the fact remains that these medicines have zero scientific validation (other than placebo via chaman effect)
Period.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)It is just like NCAM in America; powerful yet whiny individuals cried about the original findings and paid off politicians to let them "reexamine" the findings and stack the review teams with idiots.
We only have the ludicrous NCAM because of two unscrupulous Politicians. The Swiss have Homeopathy because of a bogus committee.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)..I fear.
Rex
(65,616 posts)let's call them B and S. You can't see or interact with them, but they are there. Look if millions of people do something, how can we call it crazy? That's facts. You can't question the tides. Nobody can.
I'm so grateful. Now I see the light.
B.S. The Band! of Supernatural-medicine!
AMEN!! I SEE THE LIGHT!!
JVS
(61,935 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)AxionExcel
(755 posts)Imagine what might happen to the profits of multinational pharmaceutical corporations if homeopathy and other forms of non-toxic holistic health were to catch on?
There's already a grave threat to profit$ from the increasing public awareness of the harsh and debilitating side effects of pharmaceutical-chemical remedies. Somebody, Inc. fears competition from non-toxic modalities, and is on the warpath to crush holistic health.
Consider the deeply disturbing "side effects" of Multinational Pharmaceutical Drug$, Inc.:
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)why not focus on actual treatments that, you know, actually fucking work, rather than trying to sell quackery and fake being concerned about patient's health.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)We just need to follow any old scam, and all will be well.
How do you not understand that?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)LOL
AxionExcel
(755 posts)...from the unholy depredations of Big Pharma, Inc. - which is bombarding them not just with propagandistic BS and pernicious side effects from toxic ChemDrugs, but also with Massive Unjustifiable Price Gouging.
Thanks for asking.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Whoops.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And you gave it a plus whatever?
Really?
Hmm. Why would you do that?
Something is a bit suspicious.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)By definition, alternative medicine,
Has either not been proved to work,
Or been proved not to work.
Do you know what they call Alternative medicine thats been proved to work?
Medicine.
Thanks to Tim Minchin
All the chakra realignment, reiki, acupuncture, naturopath nonsense and assorted woo is just wishful thinking without basis in reality.
And all your wishing won't make it so.
I'm now going to have my chakra's removed, drink some wine (non-homeopathic), take my gout medicine and enjoy some pork.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Water doesn't have memory, for fuck's sake!
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)... So such confusion appears to be a typical issue.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)And GMO Crops Mean More Herbicides
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bethhoffman/2013/07/02/gmo-crops-mean-more-herbicide-not-less/#4a3f7f6ea371
Says the World Health Organization.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:51 PM - Edit history (1)
You've certainly seen the Benbrook nonsense debunked before, so it really is disingenuous to post it and ask that it be debunked again. That's not ok.
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2012/09/24/anti-gmo-study-is-appropriately-dismissed-as-biased-poorly-performed/
http://weedcontrolfreaks.com/2012/10/do-genetically-engineered-crops-really-increase-herbicide-use/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/collideascape/2012/10/03/when-bad-news-stories-help-bad-science-go-viral/#.VxZQ7_krIdU
And, finally, the reality is that Benbrook is not looked upon much better than Seralini.
http://www.science20.com/science_20/the_dying_gasp_of_chuck_benbrooks_credibility-156906
GMOs reduced sprayed pesticides and herbicides, and allow for the use of safer ones. Why do you want to harm the planet by stopping that?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You can actually feel yourself getting dummer after listening to her.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/02/12/the-food-babe-there-is-just-no-acceptable-level-of-any-chemical-to-ingest-ever/
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)see reply #106. Or not.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Or not.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Or not.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)There is no "or not" about it.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Because homeopathy is 100 percent pure D bullshit. It is literally magical thinking. It is, in a word, insane.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Hmm.
And now you're telling DU that homeopathy is health care?
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)SpiralHawk: "...and check out all the hot young secretaries on the beach. Smirk." - Teh Newtie (R) http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=79822
"That's because it's true. Smirk." - xCommander AWOL (R) http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=690288&mesg_id=690289
etc.
AxionExcel: "You rang?" - Hot Tub Tommy (R) http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7748273
"I wonder what the proles are doing tonight?" - Panama Papers Plutocrats (R) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027738288
etc.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Interesting.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)When someone joins DU and is immediately going full steam on the crazy train, there's a pretty good chance they are a repeat customer.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)How soon we forget.
AxionExcel
(755 posts)I'm telling you in plain, unvarnished language that Switzerland is legitimizing homeopathy and holistic health care. That's all. There are no claims about homeopathy or anything else. Just a simple fact from the news.
Please go back and spend a minute to actually read the OP so that you can comment in some sort of relevant way.
If you are feeling a monumental wave of incoherent rage about holistic health and (apparently) clean food as well, you probably should to go to Switzerland and when you get there you can TRUMPet your allegation that in your expert opinion the people of Switzerland are STUPID. That may make you feel better. But then again it may not.
Trying to 'shoot the messenger' or 'alert' on a responsible person who is delivering a verifiable fact that you for whatever reason can't bear to face is, well, poor form.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And your propaganda has been debunked repeatedly. Yet you choose to ignore that reality.
That's quite telling and disturbing.
AxionExcel
(755 posts)Your ad hominem attacks fall on deaf ears. But amuse yourself endlessly if you must. It won't change anything. Switzerland will still have chosen to legitimize homeopathy and holistic medicine. And I still will not have claimed anything at all - positive or negative - about homeopathy or non-toxic holistic health care; I've simply relayed a bit of news about Switzerland that somehow provokes you (and a phalanx of pro-phamacetuical cronies) into incoherence, rage, and a volley of sidetracking ad-hominem attacks. That's quite telling and disturbing.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Your OP does not tell the whole story at all, and you know this, yet you continue to pretend otherwise.
That is not ok.
http://www.smw.ch/content/smw-2012-13594/
http://www.zenosblog.com/2012/05/that-neutral-swiss-homeopathy-report/
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/switzerland-endorse-homeopathy/
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)There's nothing that can legitimize homeopathy other than evidence that it works. Switzerland has just announced that they will pay for it along with real medicine.
Let me ask you this: was slavery a legitimate practice because the U.S. recognized it?
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)Was slavery a legitimate practice because the U.S. recognized it?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)are flipping out over Woo! Again. One would think they Knew Everything.
IMO if it takes a quantum physicist 9 (or 11) dimensions to explain the universe, that leaves a fuck of a lot of room for things we do not understand and cannot explain...yet.
That is all--flame away!
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Kudos for simultaneously working in argumentum ad hominem.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)that reality is rarely as simple as it would require to be definitive. An informal logical fallacy may be necessary but is not sufficient to arrive at the "truth." Reality seldom offers two and only two possible choices, "true" or "false". That view omits other possibilities: "unknown" (which may include un-tested or insufficiently-tested) and "unknowable". The history of science is full of unknowns that became known--when they were investigated (frequently by people who were looking for something else altogether).
Thanks for playing.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Mater and anti-mater. Electrons and positrons. Paper or plastic. Digital or analog. Binary. Paul McCartney and Alien Paul McCartney that replaced him after his car hit a tree. Fat Elvis and Skinny Elvis. Red or Blue states. The Bicameral system. And of course multiples of two. 4 wheels, 4 legs, 4 walls, 8 corners, 16 bits.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Life is simple, knowable and known! Never gray, or nuanced, or un-examined. Bravo!
And there is no greater barrier to knowledge than contempt prior to examination.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Pretending otherwise is some seriously contemptuous BS.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Please point to the post where I said anything in defense of any specific crap. I'll wait.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Reading is a good thing, I find, and unlike yourself? I read and responded to more than the headline in the OP.
Thanks for playing though.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)See post 106.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Simple truths. Life is pointless and in that truth is the rub for self-aware creatures. We grow contemptuous with knowledge, we are naive without it. Contempt means bias. Facts are not biased. Humans are biased. Faith is biased. Science is unbiased.
I don't know anyone that thinks they know it all, just folks that think there is some kind of prize at the end of the conversation. There is none. Just more time and future conversations.
Unless you hang out in GD-P, then it is poo flinging all day long.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)Quantum physics corresponds to boundless external reality and love is mirrored in reckless miracles. The universe serves essential mortality, and I wish more people would understand that the mind is the ground of an abundance of sensations and orderliness is the foundation of immortal observations.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)I'm sorry. That's just the way it is.
It's true, regardless of who you are. It doesn't matter if that person is a Liberal, a Conservative, Black, White, Male, Female, Oldster, or Youngster. If that person understands how homeopathy is supposed to work, and they still think it works..then they are stupid.
I'm not talking about alternative remedies to sickness. I"m not talking about healthy lifestyles that are out of the norm. I'm talking about the idea that water water that used to have an ingredient in it, can somehow cure anything, or make any difference that plain, old, water can't make.
Anyone that thinks that they have been cured of anything by homeopathy is sadly diluted .
AxionExcel
(755 posts)You must have learned that strategy from Donald 'StupidMaster' Trump (R). It is the kind of arrogance fitting only for morally bankrupt Republicans.
Even so basic a source as wikipedia reports that India, Mexico, and a host of other nations around the world including European and South American nations are open to and accepting of homeopathy and holistic health and the non-toxic health benefits that - they say - it has brought to millions of people.
Please note, once again, that I've made absolutely no claims about homeopathy or holistic health, positive or negative. I'm just a hard working prole in search of good health, and well informed about the toxic side effects of Corporate Industrial Pharmaceutical Drugs, Inc. In this thread I've only reported on what is accepted and welcome in Switzerland, Europe, South America and elsewhere. It's shocking to see how much fear and hate is aroused because people have exercised their own intelligence, judgement and free will to choose health approaches that they find work for them and their families.
But I stand with the right of Mexicans, Swiss, Indians, South Americans and other to make their own free-will choices, despite systematic attacks on holistic health by multinational chemical-pharmaceutical corporations afraid of losing their Massively Profiteering Price-jacking Pill-Pimping Priority.
Fair-minded people recognize that those who emulate vulgarian Republican Donald Trump by labeling Mexicans (Europeans, South Americans, Indians and others) as STUPID because they used their intelligence and free-will to choose non-toxic forms of health care, are advancing only the causes of bigotry and ignorance, and not good, non-toxic health.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)"chemical free food"
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)Just the ones that believe that homeopathy works. Those people are stupid, regardless of where they live.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)If water has memory, and can "remember" a fleck of onion that may or may not have been in it at one point in time, how does it forget all the piss and shit that has DEFINITELY been in it? How do homeopaths control for the confounding effect of empty McChicken Sandwich containers and half-empty cans of Bud Light left along roadsides? Is it the St. John's Wart-diluted-beyond-nothingness that is "curing" your common cold, or is it the dogfish semen? Because it might be the dogfish semen. Just sayin.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Eko
(7,318 posts)And it does wonders for $250 an hour if you are sick. Woo.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I cast 'teleport other' and rolled a d20 so now it is in MY pocket.
Eko
(7,318 posts)will be visiting you shortly if you don't give it back right now.
Rex
(65,616 posts)The rock fell out of my hands and rolled off a cliff only to have a griffin catch it and fly off.
bdwker
(435 posts)Enough said.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Or was that an appeal to authority?
"Well, if the 8th smartest people say so, it must be true!"
Free clue: it doesn't work that way.
AxionExcel
(755 posts)...you've got the wrong tool for the job.
Multinational Pharmaceutical Chemical Corps, Inc. in their ongoing campaign to snuff out non-toxic holistic medicines are locked into a tragically narrow mechanical digital world conception that - along with their zeal to keep profiteering grossly from their overpriced products - blocks and blinds them from acknowledging the public good. Their systematic corporately funded so-called "scientific debunking" efforts are really Pharmaceutical Marketing Strategies that lead to gross distortions of reality.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)I'd insert a ROFL here, but this snake oil shit isn't funny anymore.
AxionExcel
(755 posts)I've only reported the fact that the Swiss, the Mexicans, the Indians, and millions of others use homeopathy for health care and are satisfied with it. That fact really upsets a lot of people, as you can see.
People who are use ballpeen hammers to try and remove a grain of dust from a person's eye are - like the scientists try to measure the energies of homeopathy - using tools that are crude, and utterly wrong for the job.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)Do you think homeopathy is "the right tool for the job"? If so, what evidence do you have that it's "the right tool for the job"?
AxionExcel
(755 posts)...according to the Times of India. Homeopath doctors double in two decades
I report this fact reluctantly, knowing that it may well provoke a further Plague of Indignant Outrage & Advanced Knicker Twistage. But facts are facts. Surely as adults we can accept that other people value their own experience and discernment, and should be respect for the choices they make about their own health care.
Of course we can be certain that sundry entities will be quick to TRUMPET that in their 'superior' opinion the people of India - like the Swiss and the Mexicans - are to be condemned as STUPID for using a non-toxic holistic health practice that is working for them. And that they are likewise STUPID for healing themselves by using the elegant, non-toxic (and refined for two-millennia) Indian tradition of Ayurvedic Medicine.
Those who like Donald Trump (R) fling the STUPID epithet at everyone who disagrees with them, will, no doubt, be quick to prescribe that in their 'superior' opinion the 100 million Indian citizens - and millions elsewhere on our great green planet - should sit in front of the boob toob for hours each day to absorb Big PharmaChem, Inc. ads and Internet trollage. These digital dumps will advise the infidels that they need to abandon their non-toxic holistic health practices, and instead start paying yuuge sums of money to PharmaChem Corps so they can be doped up by EXORBITANTLY PRICED synthetic drugs with a vast range of toxic and pernicious side effects.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Homeopath-doctors-double-in-two-decades/articleshow/16098627.cms
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)That doesn't make them real.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)100 million people (or more) especially in rural India are sick and/or dying like flies do to a complete lack of ANY type of medical attention, coupled with a generational total ignorance of some of the basics of disease, i.e. germs exist, how certain diseases are transmitted, etc.
I once oversaw a Peace Corps Public Health program in rural India (Madras), where our nurse PC volunteers tried to work with villagers to improve their general health. They rapidly discovered that, for the villagers germs don't exist (I can't see them so they aren't there), there's no problem with the village well being 1 meter from the communal cesspit and even more remarkably, that there is no connection between having sex and getting pregnant ( you don't get pregnant every time you have sex!). Teaching Birth control mechanisms also failed - after teaching the village women in the use of condoms (demonstrating them placed on a broomstick), a follow up found that the women who had been so instructed were still getting pregnant at the same rate as before. Inquiries found that these women were following the demonstration to the letter- they put the condoms on their broomstick and then proceeded to have sex with hubby as usual.
The most shocking part (to me, at least) was that almost every child in these villages had Kwashiakor, a disease that only occurs when there is total avitaminosis, i.e.a complete and total lack of vitamins. It is readily seen in dark skinned people who have yellow hair and distended bellies. This while the village had huge Mango trees, with gigantic mangoes rotting on the ground. Village elders explained that (according to their religion) "Mangoes are 'hot' fruit and all 'hot' fruits are prohibited.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)AxionExcel
(755 posts)As I exit this thread of discussion let me go on the record as saying that - despite a frantic mass effort to denigrate hundreds of millions of people, and me - no one has presented any kind of argument that would cause me to question my support for free will and free choice. Fabulous team effort, but total FAIL. I support free will. I support free choice. In my view that's what being a democrat in a democracy is all about.
Allow me to note for the final time that I have no where in this discussion made any claims whatsoever about whether holistic health in general and homeopathy in particular work or don't work, only that they are non-toxic. All I have done is to report the fact that hundreds of millions of people around the world choose homeopathy out of their free will and find it effective, non toxic and satisfying for their personal and family health needs. That fact has obviously got a lot of people foaming at the mouth. Funny about that.
Let me also go on the record as stating that I am not in general opposed to the medicines developed by the disciplines of modern science. Some of those meds obviously do a lot of good, and I am grateful that they exist for people who need them and who choose of their own free will to use them. But the Multinational Corporations that are pimping their pills far and wide with devious Internet and TV strategies and their astonishing array of toxic and debilitating side effects, and then gouging unholy, unjustifiable gobs of money from the pockets of the sick and elderly, are another matter.
Anyone who frequents these discussion pages cannot fail to observe the regular, systematic attacks on non-toxic approaches to health, as well as the regular systematic attacks on clean, non-toxic food. That should raise questions for everyone. It certainly raises questions for me.
Once again, in respectful appreciation for careful personal discernment based on knowledge and experience, and the fundamental right to exercise free will health choices, I remain yours - Good old non-toxic AxionExcel
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 22, 2016, 07:09 PM - Edit history (2)
That's not ok. Your BS excuses don't change that fact.
And you offer no respect to anyone. Cut the crap. You repeatedly make ad hominem attacks against others at DU, referring to them as Monsanto Shills, TRUMPeters, etc... You have no justification for any of your posts, and your personal attacks are ugly and despicable.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)I'm series!11
It's great to know that there are people on both sides of the political spectrum can be as dumb as a box of rocks. And write amazingly long word-salady, Palinesque screeds defending the indefensible. But the rest of us must accept said nonsense for the sake of tolerance and inclusion and because opinions must be respected. Despite said opinions not having any basis in reality.
Thank you for standing up for science against the nonsense.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)AxionExcel = SpiralHawk
So it's quite telling how a person who falsely claims to have a neutral position on homeopathy is also a rabid anti-vaxxer, no-shit believes chemtrails are real, and checks under his bed every night to see if big pharma is there. Yet everyone who dares to call bullshit on the most obvious bullshit imaginable MUST be "foaming at the mouth".
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Prof. Jayesh Bellare, HOD, Chemical Engineering, Indian Institute of Technology, Mumbai, presented his paper on 'nano-technology of Homoeopathic medicines' and demonstrating that Homoeopathic medicines in high dilutions retain the nano-particles of the source material.
Prof. Rajendran, Principal, Vinayaka Mission's homoeopathic Medical College, Salem presented his study revealing the hidden secrets of homoeopathic potencies using High Resolution Transmission Electron Microscope and Energy Dispersive Spectroscopy (EDS) on Aurum metalicum 6C-C M potencies and FESM and EDS studies of Carbo Vegitabilis 6C to CM potencies.
Dr. Arun Jamkar, Vice Chancellor of Maharashtra University of Health Sciences, Nasik made special comments on the future of nano-technology and Homoeopathy.
Prof. G.D. Jindal, Electrical Engineer and Dr. Akalpita Paranjape both former scientists at Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, Trombay, Mumbai demonstrated measurability of the effects of homoeopathic dilutions on the autonomous nervous system in humans with an electrical device.
Prof. P. K. Joshi, Physicist at Tata Institute of Fundamental Research and Dr. Prafull Barvalia, a renowned Homoeopath from Mumbai, demonstrated enhanced super continuum generation in water in the presence of ultra-dilute solutions using laser beams; in the samples containing high dilutions of Homoeopathic medicines.
Prof. N.C. Sukul, an eminent zoologist and scientist from West Bengal in his presentation on 'Variation in free and bounded water molecule in different Homoeopathic potencies', demonstrated the difference in the spectra between different potencies of the same medicine (Sulphur 30C, 200C, 1M) using Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy.
Above studies opened new understanding about Homoeopathic medicines as nano materials.
http://www.ijrh.org/article.asp?issn=0974-7168;year=2015;volume=9;issue=2;spage=109;epage=113;aulast=Das
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)A crap scam artist's "journal."
How desperate are you to believe in nonsense?
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Physicists at TIFR and BARC have detected the effect of energy particles in homeopathy using laser beams and electrical devices. Former BARC scientist and physicist, Dr Akalpita Paranjpe talked about an electrical device called 'Medical Analyser' which measures the effects of homeopathy medicines on a person's physiology. "We measured the heart rate of a person before and after administering homeopathic medicine Sulphur 200. We noticed that the body reacts to Sulphur 200 and that the ill person goes back to being normal after being administered the medicine," said Dr Paranjpe.
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-homeopathy-is-not-a-placebo-science-2076685
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Oh, wait.
What?
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Bracho G1, Varela E, Fernández R, Ordaz B, Marzoa N, Menéndez J, García L, Gilling E, Leyva R, Rufín R, de la Torre R, Solis RL, Batista N, Borrero R, Campa C.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Leptospirosis is a zoonotic disease of major importance in the tropics where the incidence peaks in rainy seasons. Natural disasters represent a big challenge to Leptospirosis prevention strategies especially in endemic regions. Vaccination is an effective option but of reduced effectiveness in emergency situations. Homeoprophylactic interventions might help to control epidemics by using highly-diluted pathogens to induce protection in a short time scale. We report the results of a very large-scale homeoprophylaxis (HP) intervention against Leptospirosis in a dangerous epidemic situation in three provinces of Cuba in 2007.
METHODS:
Forecast models were used to estimate possible trends of disease incidence. A homeoprophylactic formulation was prepared from dilutions of four circulating strains of Leptospirosis. This formulation was administered orally to 2.3 million persons at high risk in an epidemic in a region affected by natural disasters. The data from surveillance were used to measure the impact of the intervention by comparing with historical trends and non-intervention regions.
RESULTS:
After the homeoprophylactic intervention a significant decrease of the disease incidence was observed in the intervention regions. No such modifications were observed in non-intervention regions. In the intervention region the incidence of Leptospirosis fell below the historic median. This observation was independent of rainfall.
CONCLUSIONS:
The homeoprophylactic approach was associated with a large reduction of disease incidence and control of the epidemic. The results suggest the use of HP as a feasible tool for epidemic control, further research is warranted.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I bet the hardest part was trying to figure out which one was the placebo
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/homeoprophylaxis-an-idea-whose-time-has-come-and-gone/
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMICS_Publishing_Group
Yep, if OMIC publishes it, then it must be
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Homeopathy is arguably the fastest-growing system of medicine in the world. The Associated Chambers of Commerce and Industry of India reported in March 2011 that Indias market for homeopathy was worth approximately $5.35-billion, and growing by about 30% annually. In the U.S., where the FDA recognizes the 1938 American Homeopathic Pharmacopoeia as the official reference guiding the manufacture of homeopathic medicines, their use has increased fivefold since 1990. Homeopathy is now a regulated health profession in Ontario, and homeopathic medicines are classified by Health Canada.
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/karen-wehrstein-homeopathy-offers-hope