How well will you handle a "cashless society".

[CK_John]

The Bank of Korea is planning a cashless society by 2020. Swedes are making the shift. I’m intrigued, but also troubled.

There’s a lot to like about the idea of a cashless society, starting with its effect on crime. The payoff to mugging people or snatching their bags has already declined dramatically, simply because fewer people are carrying cash.

If it weren’t for the rising value of mobile phones, street crime would have largely lost its profit motive . . . and if better phone security makes it impossible to repurpose a stolen phone, that motive will approach zero.

Read More:

http://nypost.com/2016/03/17/a-cashless-society-would-cut-crime-and-empower-big-brother/

[whatthehey]

1. I'd love it to bits

Not just the crime angle, but the expense of minting and printing, the germ-ridden nature of currency, the ease of accidental loss, the woeful inability of cash handlers to calculate change, the weight and bulk in pockets, the strange inability of taxi drivers to break any bills above $1 and the inability of bartenders to use them, the greater difficulty of tracking expenses, all go away.

ETA - I forgot another major reason to avoid cash - the hundreds of dollars a year I get from 1-5% cash back deals on my credit cards which I pay off in full each month. They pay me to use their money for 40-10 days.

[CK_John]

3. I haven't carried cash for several yrs, so I don't see any problem.

[whatthehey]

4. I do very little too

I use debit cards until I have the 12 per month needed for my high interest rate checking and then switch to the cash-back credit cards. The only things I use cash for now is the occasional vending machine soda (we are decades behind the rest of the OECD world in vending card readers) and lottery tickets whenever I feel like wasting a few bucks on a license to daydream about a very comfortable early retirement for the whole family (no idea why they cannot take debit cards; even credit card restrictions only make sense if you infantilize consumers.)

Back when I could both walk and write properly I used to scan estate sales for old fountain pens and had cash for that, but those days are done.

[sufrommich]

2. I'm pretty much there anyway.

But I belong to a credit union that doesn't charge for debit card transactions. I think some banks charge if you go over a certain amount of transactions,at least from what I've heard. That would be a deal breaker for me.

[CK_John]

5. The only thing worry about is liability between debt and credit cards

If plastic is stolen or hacked credit cards are limited to xx dollars but debit cards are all your problem.

These rules change all the time so get your info from your bank or credit union (in writing and dated).

[sufrommich]

8. Very true. If we go cashless,there's going to have to

be some big improvements in card security. Maybe something like giving the cardholder the ability to limit the amount that can be spent in one day unless the cardholder overrides the limit using a password not associated with the card.

[ileus]

10. Our debit card was skimmed last year, bank covered the loss.

[Hortensis]

21. Umhm. Over the years, both our debit and credit

have been breached a number of times. The banks have always assumed the losses. None has cost us a penny.

As for cashless, as a grandma I need some quarters in the car in case we're somewhere our grandchildren "need" quarters to put in something to get something not worth a nickle.

That, an occasional rural restaurant, and garage sales/flea markets are about all we use cash for. Oh, and I prefer cash for tipping servers -- not my business if they choose not to declare.

[alarimer]

6. Don't forget the ability to track you everywhere you go.

And charge innumerable "fees" for accessing your own money. TANF benefits on debit cards can be reduced by those fees. $1 fee for ever withdrawal in Kansas and a $25 daily limit, so you can't, say pay your rent with it.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/kansas-welfare-bill-would-cut-into-benefits-with-atm-fees/

[Hortensis]

23. We can, and of course really, really,

really, really should fix all that, especially access to our personal information by anyone but the financial institution under fiduciary laws and by governments only with a court order. But all those problems can be fixed if We the People choose.

We are an electorate of 150 MILLION, and the people who control over 80% of our nation's wealth and make these decisions number around 30,000 or so, most members of a far smaller number of families.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

24. I wouldnt worry too much about it. Cryptocurrencies will fix that.

Good luck them tracking ZCash, Dash, or Monero.

https://news.bitcoin.com/meet-top-3-coins-cryptocurrency-anonymity-race/

Wilcox said. “A robust tradition of privacy is a common feature in rich and peaceful societies, and a lack of privacy is often found in struggling and failing societies.”

[PowerToThePeople]

7. There will still be other untraceable methods of exchange

outside of the government control.

It will become a two tier system, not that it already isn't that way, it will just become more pronounced.

[dixiegrrrrl]

35. Cash only is extremely common in my area.

Quite a number of people who have worked on my house here have told me "You'd be surprised at how many use cash around here".

No..I wouldn't.
I know there is a "cash price" and a "check price". for many services.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

9. Some who rely on tips would get shafted.

It's one thing to add on a tip when you're paying for a meal or something with a credit card. But it would complicate things for other people like valet parking attendants, door men, porters, etc. Then there's the kids who come around to shovel snow in the winter, bake sales and garage sales-- and what do you accidentally leave on the passenger seat when you go to take your behind-the-wheel test?
And is your weed guy going to take plastic?

[arendt]

11. so easy to confiscate your assets.

At least today, short of a Rico prosecution, the government or a bank can't just press a key and take your money.

Look forward to arbitrary "taxes" taken directly
from your digital account. Like the haircuts and negative interest rates seen abroad. So much easier to do electronically.

I worry less about illegal theft than legalized theft. Business fees and government taxes.

I do not understand peoples' rush to hand their lives over to faceless, computerized entities.

[LeftyMom]

12. A broken ATM once didn't give me my money but deducted from my account anyhow.

Even though the CU that operated the ATM, my CU and the physical ATM in question were all within shouting distance of each other they took every last day the law allowed (I believe it was 14) to investigate the situation and give me back my money.

Yeah, not real interested in exciting new ways to be fucked over by banks.

[whatthehey]

13. Ironically, going cashless would have obviated that problem

[LeftyMom]

15. Assigning greater trust to untrustworthy entities is a bad idea.

[whatthehey]

17. Consumer banks record hundreds of billions of transactions annually

with an error rate that is vanishingly small, multiple reconciliation and arbitration steps (which your own post shows work) and substantial oversight. The only real world meanings of "my consumer bank ripped my checking account off" in modern US history are either "I cannot manage my finances" or "I did not read/understand the contract", and often both. I am neither a lawyer nor a financial genius nor an industry insider, yet I make hundreds a year from my banks and have paid not a single penny to one of them in a decade, and that last time was 100% my fault for not ensuring all my outstanding checks had posted before winding an account down. They make money by loaning out funds, in very small part mine, and charging more interest to borrowers than they pay me. In return I don't have to convince every single merchant that yes I will pay my bill at the end of the month, or risk having my crippled ass robbed by any hoodlum who wants to take the silly antiquated folding green tokens from me. Perfectly sound business model.

[Gormy Cuss]

26. Oh, bullshit.

It took me a week to get a bank to correct an obvious error, where they debited my account for the same check twice on consecutive days. Fortunately it didn't cause my account to go below the minimum balance or trigger any fees but it took days of calls and in person visits before I finally got someone's attention. This was at a major bank in a major city.

[dixiegrrrrl]

16. Yep.

So easy to make you a non-entity. Just block your virtual account
or kill the power to an area.

In fact, I have seen real life examples already.

Our small rural town has twice now gone dark, when all the computerized machines were not functioning.
On a Friday afternoon, no less, which is payday for almost everyone.
around here, you get paid, you deposit the check, then you stop at the grocery stores before you head home.
As long as the bank and store machines are working.
When they did not, people were out of luck.

Except for those of us who hold onto emergency cash in small bills, cause of hurricane evacuation possibilities.

Really saddens me deeply that so many people today will sell their independence for convenience.

[whatthehey]

19. Had a power outage at the bar a while back

They wrote down the total and my card details and charged me when the power came back on.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

22. Yep, once they take away the alternative, you've been got.

[bjo59]

33. Agree. And beyond business fees and

government taxes, there is the current move toward negative interest rates and bail ins. (p.s.: does "Arendt" refer to Hannah Arendt? These days her "Origins of Totalitarianism" comes to mind frequently.)

[arendt]

41. Yes, your Arendt ref is correct. been at DU since 2002.

Mostly, I don't post, because the place is such a counterproductive catfight - by design.

Welcome aboard.

[LeftyMom]

14. AKA how excited are you to give the banks a cut of every purchase you make?

Businesses pay a percentage of every credit transaction and a fixed amount for every PIN-based transaction. For small businesses the fees are higher, naturally. The fees, of course, are passed on to the consumer.

[whatthehey]

18. And does anyone believe the prices would go down if those fees went away?

Who cares whether a fraction of an expended dollar goes to a direct vendor or one who performs a service for them? Do we worry about vendors passing on fees from their tax accountants, from their cleaning service, from their utility companies? Why should we worry just because it's their bank? It's not like cash is free either. There is much extra handling (therefore labor costs) from change to reconciliation to depositing, much extra opportunity for either honest error or illicit pilferage with cash-handling staff. Do you really think businesses don't pass on those costs too?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. i'd keep dreaming about V for Vendetta. nt

[redwitch]

25. I AM a cashless society.

Sadly.

[dchill]

27. That's my reply.

But you're welcome to it.

[redwitch]

28. Thanks.

Sitting here waiting for the mail which maybe, just maybe will bring some paychecks. I HATE not having enough money.

[jwirr]

29. I don't know but there are some things that I use cash for

and don't see how that would be handled. For one our small bus service charges $1 a ride and I pay that in cash - sometimes in the change laying around when it is the end of the month.

I also borrow money from family members when I run out and pay that back in cash.

I suppose the bus will end up having to have a credit card machine in each bus?

[NashuaDW]

30. I would very much welcome a NEAR cashless society

I use my AMEX for most things (purchase protection, extended warranties, and cash back)
Whenever I can I use my iPhone - tied to my AMEX account
I buy gas using my Cumberland Farms SmartPay app on the phone (cheaper gas and rewards)

I occasionally grab $40 from the ATM (no fees at any ATM in the world) for those purchases where cash is the best option.

I'm okay with the $50 being the largest bill in circulation.

... oh, and I'm 60 years old .... not an uppity youngster

[philosslayer]

31. Kind of renders the whole Harriet Tubman / Andrew Jackson discussion moot.

n/t

[bjo59]

32. Two of the reasons this is scary (even if it is inevitable): bail ins and negative interest rates.

1) Negative interest rates. Negative interest rates mean that the longer you leave your money in the bank, the less money you will have in the bank. In a cashless society, you will not be able to resist negative interest rates by storing your money in whatever fashion outside of a bank. Janet Yellen says if the US follows Japan, Denmark, the Eurozone, Switzerland, and Sweden (who already have them), it won't hurt average savers, etc. However, what else would she say? Developments like this aren't designed to hit people over the head immediately. They take shape incrementally. In a cashless society it would be impossible to to resist when it ramps up into high gear.

2) Bail ins. In a cashless society you will also not be able to avoid a "bail in" if and when it happens. If you don't know what a "bail in" is, here's a link that describes it as instituted by the EU. Both negative interest rates and bail ins are designed to protect and reward banks. In a global financial system the handwriting is on the wall.

Bail ins: http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/january-1-2016-the-new-bank-bail-in-system-goes-into-effect-in-europe

I guess one could argue that in a cashless society paper money would be of no value anyway and that one could still purchase other forms of value should a massive "bail in" look likely. What prevents the bank from disallowing such purchases? A cashless society is an important step on the path towards total global corporate control.

[dixiegrrrrl]

37. Negative interest is a form of a bail in, if you think about it.

and it is coming here, the Fed has already been floating the trial balloons.

I am waiting for Japan to get the "helicopter money" plan going, they are talking about it now.

[lagomorph777]

34. Good for street crime, bad for bankster crime

The more they get to hold and process our money, the more they will steal.

[WinkyDink]

36. Won't happen here.

[dixiegrrrrl]

40. Grass is green.

[madinmaryland]

38. Hopefully that never really happens. As one who lives paycheck to paycheck, I will hold

$20-40 in cash in case I run short at the end of the pay period and need to pick up some small item, medication, food, or beer! And What will I do if I am due beer and travel money!!!

[madinmaryland]

39. I am due beer and travel money and many experiences. I expect it in cash!!