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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Sat May 7, 2016, 08:20 PM May 2016

Psychologists explain Trump: He's literally a narcissistic psychopath

https://www.sott.net/article/315060-Psychologists-explain-Trump-Hes-literally-a-narcissistic-psychopath

The Mayo Clinic explains "Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of ultraconfidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism." They add that "a narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of life." The sufferer "may be generally unhappy and disappointed when you're not given the special favors or admiration you believe you deserve."

Clinical psychologist George Simon said that Trump is "so classic that I'm archiving video clips of him to use in workshops because there's no better example of his characteristics." He conducts lectures and seminars on manipulative behavior exhibited by narcissists, psychopaths and sociopaths - all related Anti Social Personality Disorders. "Otherwise, I would have had to hire actors and write vignettes. He's like a dream come true."...

Carol Caldwell notes, in D.J. Trump, Psychopath, that "it's been attested to by psychologists and neurobiologists who study psycho- and sociopaths that the deadly syndrome can be seen in their eyes."

She observes that "the eyes are described as affectless, what we would call cold, or eerily blank in one-on-one or televised exchanges. The sociopath is described as charming, out-going, intelligent, cunning, winning without warmth, but adaptable to whatever human kindness you telegraph to them. As we well know, many of them ascend to top positions in major industries, I might mention Wall Street and banking, heads of Hollywood studios, and members of Congress. On the street levels of everyday life, they work their wiles into all kinds of jobs, by falsifying resumes to fit the careers they are after. One area of human endeavor they seem less adaptable to is refined senses of humor."

106 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Psychologists explain Trump: He's literally a narcissistic psychopath (Original Post) KamaAina May 2016 OP
jeez, I could have told anyone that. And I'm just a musician... pangaia May 2016 #1
Are there any narcissistic musicians? sofa king May 2016 #35
Of course not.. pangaia May 2016 #38
Truly! catrose May 2016 #76
oy... ReRe May 2016 #79
Excuse me. They're called maestros! valerief May 2016 #82
That's what THEY think. pangaia May 2016 #84
I only know of the one on old Seinfeld show. nt valerief May 2016 #86
... Spitfire of ATJ May 2016 #90
Cruz more like. Trump is just a narcissitic opportunist celebrity. He's a gold plated used car lemon applegrove May 2016 #2
Were it not for his trust fund, that's exactly what he'd be without the gold plating Major Nikon May 2016 #7
it's weird--Cruz lacks the sociopathic charm but seems far more dangerous zazen May 2016 #48
Not all sociopaths are charismatic and charming, Hortensis May 2016 #61
Someone wrote that when Cruz smiles his eyes don't smile too (if his eyes smiled they would applegrove May 2016 #75
Trump is a living parody of right wing narcissistic psychopathy Major Nikon May 2016 #3
I think this go 'round madville May 2016 #4
I'm afraid you're right Doctor_J May 2016 #11
That would be Romney keithbvadu2 May 2016 #64
There's no comparison at all. Everyone has some level of healthy narcissism, and politicians pnwmom May 2016 #17
I agree with you about Hillary. Volaris May 2016 #24
I've thought this, but you put it in words. I do not denigrate her libdem4life May 2016 #72
I think so as well Volaris May 2016 #91
I agree with you to a point passiveporcupine May 2016 #98
Has anyone here seen the FIVE mansions they own? Says it all. libdem4life May 2016 #100
You don't bite the hand that feeds you. She has no pressure to do that. libdem4life May 2016 #99
Yes, that is what they want to present to us as "choices". Two narcissists. n/t djean111 May 2016 #51
She's comparatively low on narcissism on the continuum as presidents go, IMHO. lindysalsagal May 2016 #54
I agree. The fact that she works so hard and so patiently shows that she doesn't think pnwmom May 2016 #71
Courtesy of the Corporate whore media. Manipulation at it's finest. SammyWinstonJack May 2016 #94
the Dem nominee needs to hire a team of them to instruct how to push his buttons Skittles May 2016 #5
Problem is that the same buttons would work on Clinton. nm rhett o rick May 2016 #8
Doubt that. She seems pretty stable to me. Kingofalldems May 2016 #14
Really? This is the person that couldn't find the courage to stand up to the idiot king rhett o rick May 2016 #28
She's survived hours of brutal congressional grilling with a smile. She's done that her lindysalsagal May 2016 #56
Didn't you watch any debates? The Donald's narcissism has him on a hair trigger. pnwmom May 2016 #18
She was also grilled for eleven freaking hours by the repubs. Kingofalldems May 2016 #20
She would give them... reACTIONary May 2016 #19
How arrogant. Not my kind of person. I like people that are more empathetic. nm rhett o rick May 2016 #29
You have empathy for a hypothetical team.... reACTIONary May 2016 #37
I have empathy for the 2.5 American children that are homeless that the wealthy 1% rhett o rick May 2016 #101
"This" is a presidential election.... reACTIONary May 2016 #105
next you will be calling her SHRILL Skittles May 2016 #93
Wrong but I will point out that she sold her integrity to the MIC in 2002 when the Bush Family rhett o rick May 2016 #102
I missed that. Hysterical!!! lindysalsagal May 2016 #59
complete bullshit Skittles May 2016 #21
Lol! zappaman May 2016 #23
I thought a lot about the last narcissist President. sofa king May 2016 #40
Yes! Getting the audience to laugh AT him, then mention how he can't "hit her like he did his wife" zazen May 2016 #49
True. Narcissists either use you or ignore you. In their minds, you don't really exist. lindysalsagal May 2016 #58
Great idea. Push him over the edge. I love it. n/t. lindysalsagal May 2016 #53
Ordering up an ass-kicking for tRump by Skittles! madinmaryland May 2016 #77
Thats a perfect description of Trump and he may have his finger on the nuclear button. OMG, rladdi May 2016 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author reACTIONary May 2016 #15
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!! n/t hopeforchange2008 May 2016 #9
Holy crap. Old Crow May 2016 #10
I think you are referring to William Dodd dhol82 May 2016 #65
Thank you! Old Crow May 2016 #68
He absolutely is. laundry_queen May 2016 #12
Wow. Old Crow May 2016 #16
Thanks. Funny thing is laundry_queen May 2016 #22
And a second Wow. Old Crow May 2016 #25
You are too kind laundry_queen May 2016 #30
You've done great and your story is inspiring. Old Crow May 2016 #33
The pleasure was all mine. laundry_queen May 2016 #34
Huge kudos to you, laundry_queen ailsagirl May 2016 #42
Aw laundry_queen May 2016 #45
Well, you deserve it ailsagirl May 2016 #46
Great description of fRump supporters, millions of them: lindysalsagal May 2016 #63
Yep. fRump's the ass-hole we've already survived: He's losing more woman than any previous lindysalsagal May 2016 #62
Hmm, the short-fingered vulgarian is vulnerable to the slightest criticism. Bernardo de La Paz May 2016 #13
Agreed on all, except... Dark n Stormy Knight May 2016 #106
I've been saying that for years. Hissyspit May 2016 #26
I'm afraid that if we kicked every person with this disorder... kag May 2016 #27
A book entitled... gregcrawford May 2016 #31
Another good book on the subject - "The Psychopath Next Door" womanofthehills May 2016 #43
That is a good one catchnrelease May 2016 #66
Re: A book entitled ... millard filmore May 2016 #92
Trump On Letting The Economy Collapse Urchin May 2016 #32
Insulting Narcissistic Psychopaths Everywhere fred v May 2016 #36
Trump is a grenade lobbed at the Republican Party mindwalker_i May 2016 #39
Ah, now there's an appealing combination ailsagirl May 2016 #41
I'd like to hear more about how a narcissistic psychopath would ecstatic May 2016 #44
Called it!!!!! Initech May 2016 #47
As a rule, we should vote for policy rather than personality, but... thesquanderer May 2016 #50
"Gardner added that "for me, the compelling question is the psychological state of his supporters. lindysalsagal May 2016 #52
The Donald Trumps of the world sulphurdunn May 2016 #55
No shit Sherlock. Hugin May 2016 #57
Trump has mental issues and is not fit to be POTUS Gothmog May 2016 #60
I guess that is why I am actually looking forward to the election. Grammy23 May 2016 #67
Sociopath, not psychopath Tab May 2016 #69
Sounds more like a psychopath to me Quixote1818 May 2016 #70
Yeah, i thought sociopath too. Warren DeMontague May 2016 #89
If you read the definition of both at the link above he is actually more more of a psychopath Quixote1818 May 2016 #96
I don't think he's that smooth. Warren DeMontague May 2016 #97
An area of Trump psychology that interests me, is his emotional thrill seeking through compulsive braddy May 2016 #73
Charming he ain't n/t ailsagirl May 2016 #74
Definitely. Blue_In_AK May 2016 #78
K&R Maru Kitteh May 2016 #80
Who El Shaman May 2016 #81
Neurologist adds, "With the early signs of dementia plainly obvious." L. Coyote May 2016 #83
Haven't we been down that road before? KamaAina May 2016 #85
St. Ronnie, and I was telling everyone about his decline long before the rest of the world knew. L. Coyote May 2016 #87
Damn, you need a psych degree to spot that? Warren DeMontague May 2016 #88
I had a relationship with a narcissist houston16revival May 2016 #95
K&R smirkymonkey May 2016 #103
One doesn't need to be a psychologist to figure that out. LisaL May 2016 #104

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
35. Are there any narcissistic musicians?
Sat May 7, 2016, 10:29 PM
May 2016

(Heh heh heh heh, just giving you the soft pitch so you can knock it out of the park.)

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
84. That's what THEY think.
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:18 PM
May 2016

Actually there are very, very few whom I would refer to as Maestro (or Maestra).

Myung-whun Chung is #1 in my book..

applegrove

(118,659 posts)
2. Cruz more like. Trump is just a narcissitic opportunist celebrity. He's a gold plated used car lemon
Sat May 7, 2016, 08:29 PM
May 2016

salesman.

zazen

(2,978 posts)
48. it's weird--Cruz lacks the sociopathic charm but seems far more dangerous
Sun May 8, 2016, 10:42 AM
May 2016

I used to think Trump was less dangerous too, as an overt malignant narcissist who fits the profile of a batterer as well.

But it's weird. Cruz doesn't have that easy charm. He's almost asperger-ish, and my experience has been that people on the autism spectrum are actually honest to a fault because they lack "theory of mind," the capacity to get in someone else's head enough to manipulate them.

I'd agree that they're both malignant narcissists even extending into sociopathology, but Cruz' lack of surface charm throws me. People recoil from him, whereas sociopaths excel in getting naive and not-so-naive people to trust them. Hmmmm . . . . ?

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
61. Not all sociopaths are charismatic and charming,
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:27 PM
May 2016

or gifted in any other way, just that they have a higher average of people with those traits, especially the particularly successful ones, like very likely Tom "The Hammer" DeLay and New Gingrich -- before they self-destructed. Some of them reach the pinnacle of their success by marrying someone as a way of exploiting him or her and making that person miserable, or weaseling their way onto disability and welfare programs and chortling in some government-paid single-room-occupancy at their cleverness.

applegrove

(118,659 posts)
75. Someone wrote that when Cruz smiles his eyes don't smile too (if his eyes smiled they would
Sun May 8, 2016, 04:36 PM
May 2016

Last edited Sun May 8, 2016, 10:16 PM - Edit history (2)

make crows feet) which is a dead give away that he is faking it. And that disgusts people. Also Cruz seems to like making people unhappy which is a bit odd sadism. Which means he probably likes disgusting people so he never bothered to study how to improve his mask. He's less smooth and schooled as sociopaths go. Trump is a dyslexic salesman who is using racism and xenophobia to get elected. Someone said last week that Trump sent his minions out to listen to GOP talk radio before he ran. What came out of that was the base's fear of losing jobs and fear of immigrants. So those became his two main themes. I don't think that Trump is as empty as Cruz. He's just stoking resentments because that is what is left when you dial down 40 years of movement conservatism. I really think that all sorts of ideas and opposite policies go through his brain every day as he tries to suss out the election and connect with the base. An opportunist? Yes. A sociopath? No. A narcissist? Yes but because he is a celebrity.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
11. I'm afraid you're right
Sat May 7, 2016, 08:53 PM
May 2016

I wonder what Mrs Clinton's diagnosis is. There has to be a word for someone who changes her stance on every issue depending on who she's talking to.

keithbvadu2

(36,806 posts)
64. That would be Romney
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:47 PM
May 2016

"someone who changes her stance on every issue depending on who she's talking to."

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
17. There's no comparison at all. Everyone has some level of healthy narcissism, and politicians
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:05 PM
May 2016

must to get anywhere.

But his is so profound it has him disconnected from the outside world, living only in his own fantasy. The whole world exists just to reflect his splendor back at him.

She's a hard working, put her shoulder to the wheel kind of person. Not an empty suit, with a rich father, like the Donald.

Volaris

(10,271 posts)
24. I agree with you about Hillary.
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:37 PM
May 2016

Also, she's NOT a natural politician like her husband. And I very much wish that she would stop trying. Her strengths are a razor sharp mind that sees connections that others cannot, a Will made of steel, and PATIENCE, if I'm seeing properly. If she decided that Status Quo is no longer acceptable, the alternative and useful solutions she could create would be truly world-altering. But if Status Quo is good enough, that iron will again and that's EXACTLY what we will be getting, no matter how passivley destructive it may be. I give her immense credit for the power she's attained for herself (against the near complete hatred of her rivals) but Power by itself isn't laudable or useful unless it's attached to something greater than itself.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
72. I've thought this, but you put it in words. I do not denigrate her
Sun May 8, 2016, 03:14 PM
May 2016

many positive traits...as you mentioned. I'm also a woman of her generation. It wasn't easy back in the 60s when feminism, as a real social/political issue, was formed. My very last class in college was the first 6 week class/symposium in Feminism in that liberal arts college.

She's returning to her Republican roots under pressure, IMO, because she knows how they think and feel. Why not Democratic money? It's not like it's not out there. Perhaps they are tapped out, not sure of her ultimate ascension to the Presidency or fear she can't beat Trump. It's well covered which candidate beats Trump easily.

Rich donors aren't dumb. But the shift to Republican donors says more than one might think. Not only do they require favors for their funds, but they sense she will do their bidding...like the corporate banking industry. She has just lurched to the right, and my guess is that the Democrat donors don't trust her to further their/our agenda as they once did.






Volaris

(10,271 posts)
91. I think so as well
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:35 PM
May 2016

I would add, any critique of the Clintons is NOT an attack on they're Mastery of the system, but rather on the SYSTEM that they were required to master in order to try and get anything at all useful accomplished.

If Hillary announced tomorrow that the first thing she would demand (and i mean DEMAND..as in, this will get done or i can get unelected) of Congress were publicly-funded elections via universal income tax, she would not only win in a landslide she would do it with the full-throated support of every human who voted for Sanders in the Primary.

We need to allow her to HAVE TAKEN the dirty wall st money. SHE needs to make sure that no one ever HAS TO take it again. That's the deal, but it IS non-negotiable.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
98. I agree with you to a point
Sun May 8, 2016, 08:43 PM
May 2016

Yes, Hillary is a victim of "learning the system too well". But in her case, as is shown by her love of her extravagant lifestyle and the fame and notoriety that goes with that, she is one of those who will never really "see" that her success is wrong because it is based on all the wrong things.

she loves being who she is and having the money and knowing all the important people. She thrives on being able to suck money out of the wealthy for her causes.

I don't see her ever taking the path you proscribe, as it would mean giving up too much, including being a master of her craft. She really is a master of her craft when it comes to playing for power and money. And she loves it too much to give up.

I'd really love to be proven wrong on this.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
99. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. She has no pressure to do that.
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:23 PM
May 2016

The Clintons have flipped off the Left as a hobby. This is what Bill said HE was doing and look where that got us.

She's about power and money and being the President. That's pretty much it.

lindysalsagal

(20,686 posts)
54. She's comparatively low on narcissism on the continuum as presidents go, IMHO.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:13 PM
May 2016

I mean, really, you HAVE to think alot of yourself just to go through what you have to in order to get the job.

The american 2-year candidate structure demands it, as well as unlimited money.

If we were to go to the 6 week non-funded european model, that might change.

We've got the election system we want: We'd have to vote for candidates promoting election reform (insert you-know-who-here) in order for that to change.

You can't blame the entire system on Hillary, as much as I don't like her.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
71. I agree. The fact that she works so hard and so patiently shows that she doesn't think
Sun May 8, 2016, 03:04 PM
May 2016

she's entitled, just on the basis of her wonderfulness -- like Trump or a true narcissist would think.

But you have to have an ego to think you would make a good President.

Skittles

(153,160 posts)
5. the Dem nominee needs to hire a team of them to instruct how to push his buttons
Sat May 7, 2016, 08:34 PM
May 2016

it would not be hard to do

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
28. Really? This is the person that couldn't find the courage to stand up to the idiot king
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:47 PM
May 2016

George Bush. When he asked for her help selling his war, she acquiesced and actually gave a speech to convince other Democrats.

lindysalsagal

(20,686 posts)
56. She's survived hours of brutal congressional grilling with a smile. She's done that her
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:20 PM
May 2016

whole life. I actually wish she'd drop the polite thing and really let loose, but that would be political death.

This woman is a PHD in emotional control. No one is better at it. And I don't particularly like her, but it's a fact.

You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone with better control: Other than Obama. He's even better at it, and as the first black president, he needed to be.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
18. Didn't you watch any debates? The Donald's narcissism has him on a hair trigger.
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:08 PM
May 2016

Hillary was thoughtful and contained, and gave detailed, thorough answers. He spit out a few slogans, Sarah Palin style.

Sarah's another likely narcissist, by the way.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
37. You have empathy for a hypothetical team....
Sat May 7, 2016, 10:36 PM
May 2016

... hired and instructed how to push her buttons? Hilllary wouldn't respond the way cry-bully trump does. She'd give them the brush off. That's not arrogance . ... that's class.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
101. I have empathy for the 2.5 American children that are homeless that the wealthy 1%
Mon May 9, 2016, 12:26 AM
May 2016

don't give a crap about. She wants to amass hundreds of millions for her personal account. This is a class war and just because she pretends to care, she is a member of the exclusive top 1% of the top 1%. If she has class, it's the rich class.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
105. "This" is a presidential election....
Mon May 9, 2016, 06:25 AM
May 2016

.... not a "class war". The "class war" was held a long, long time ago. Nobody came. The class warriors lost. And not without good reason.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
102. Wrong but I will point out that she sold her integrity to the MIC in 2002 when the Bush Family
Mon May 9, 2016, 12:28 AM
May 2016

asked her to help sell their war.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
40. I thought a lot about the last narcissist President.
Sat May 7, 2016, 11:07 PM
May 2016

Remember how George W. Bush spent two years of his Presidency on vacation? I'm convinced it's because he was a narcissist and the walls were closing in on him. I think a team of people were constantly fluffing his dumb ass to rebuild his self esteem.

And now that he's a shnook and nobody wants to talk to him, his life must be a living hell. At least I hope it is.

The most important thing about people with NPD is that they are not always un-empathetic. Periodically, they have "moments of clarity," where they see themselves as they are, and see the damage they have caused. They instantly fall into deep depression and withdraw.

Donald Trump appears to have had such a moment back in September, though I never found out what caused it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1219532

That's how you destroy him. You put him on the spot, in public, make him see himself for the fraud he is, and try to get him to say some true things about himself, for once.

Another thing to know is that narcissists are constantly manipulated by those around them. They require a circle of smart, competent people, even though they are neither of those things. Those people are almost always extremely manipulative, even criminal, themselves. Like W, a Trump Presidency would be a never-ending disaster of subordinates coming, disgracing themselves, and being run off. A close look at his electoral team, here in a couple of months when he won't have as much time to react, might be a wise idea.


zazen

(2,978 posts)
49. Yes! Getting the audience to laugh AT him, then mention how he can't "hit her like he did his wife"
Sun May 8, 2016, 10:52 AM
May 2016

There are court documents indicating he hit Ivana and raped her.

Of course, the standards for every Democratic candidate are outrageous. The mainstream media has done with Lakoff and Johnson talked about in Metaphors We Live By. They've made Republicans gender-male and Democrats gender-female in subtle binary fashion, which means the former have no standards and the latter are blamed for the slightest hiccup. So however Clinton tries to defend herself against him she'll come off as a "bitch" to the 15% diehard woman-hating misogynists. But all women are bitches to them, so she's better off ridiculing him.

However, pulled off right, she'd be able to instigate him to assault her simply by standing there with the right double-entendres.

If nothing else, he'd storm off.

His whole narcissistic life is predicated on being able to walk away/distract/abuse when things get difficult--of not having to face the consequences of his own bad actions. He wouldn't be able to tolerate fair, witty, audience-approved ridicule by a smart woman.

And mark my words, as much as detest the policies of both Clintons and continue to hope that a convention floor fight will result in a Sanders nomination, if Clinton is the nominee, Sanders will be a powerful surrogate against Trump and will mock him in a way only a brutally witty male New Yorker can, and all of we Sanders supporters will cheer him on in that, because that level of racism and misogyny must be called out. He already has zinged him well by mocking him for "apparently not realizing that women go to the bathroom, which has obviously upset him a lot." Sanders can get that guy's goat better than anybody and he will be attack-dog #1 if Clinton wins the nomination.

lindysalsagal

(20,686 posts)
58. True. Narcissists either use you or ignore you. In their minds, you don't really exist.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:25 PM
May 2016

Either you're another one of their limbs, under their total control, or they dismiss you as irrelevant. Not a trait you hope for in foreign diplomacy.

This fool cannot be allowed to run our country.

Response to rladdi (Reply #6)

Old Crow

(2,212 posts)
10. Holy crap.
Sat May 7, 2016, 08:52 PM
May 2016

We've got a candidate for the presidency who's being used as a textbook case of psychopathology.

This brings to mind the story of an American who was in Germany in the 1930s, reporting back to the U.S. on the rise of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, aka Nazis. I don't recall if he was a reporter or a member of the U.S. State Department. The gist of his observations was that many of the Nazi leaders were exhibiting clear signs of serious mental illness. Any honest appraisal by a psychologist, he suggested, would verify this. Of course we all know this in hindsight, but I find it remarkable that long before all hell broke loose, at a time when some abroad were actually admiring the Nazis, a sober observer could see that the movement's leaders were psychopaths.

If anyone is familiar with this anecdote, please let me know the details. I did a quick Google search, but came up empty. Thanks.

dhol82

(9,353 posts)
65. I think you are referring to William Dodd
Sun May 8, 2016, 01:07 PM
May 2016

He was the ambassador to Nazi Germany in the 30's.

Good book about him is 'In The Garden Of The Beasts.'

Old Crow

(2,212 posts)
68. Thank you!
Sun May 8, 2016, 01:35 PM
May 2016

I'll look into it. I'm thinking I heard the anecdote during an author interview on NPR, so it may be from the book you mention. Fantastic title!

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
12. He absolutely is.
Sat May 7, 2016, 08:56 PM
May 2016

My ex husband is too. I once had a psychologist tell me so, although she couldn't be 'definitive' she said because she hadn't assessed him, she had to deal with him on a regular basis for payment, as it was a child psychologist for our child and he was the one who was supposed to be paying, as he had the insurance. He was always trying her patience with payment, even though he could well afford it and would be reimbursed. He manipulated her on numerous occasions. She told me of his game playing and her assumptions on what his issue was. I had already suspected that was his issue, so it was no surprise, and it was nice to be validated that I wasn't crazy.

Anyway, my ex has the exact same manner of speaking. It's kind of uncanny. Every time I hear Trump speak I cringe, lol.

Old Crow

(2,212 posts)
16. Wow.
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:05 PM
May 2016

Congratulations on getting out of, and surviving, what must have been an incredibly difficult relationship.

Do you ever wonder what Melania Trump is enduring? Of course, I'm not sure she's such a peach, either.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
22. Thanks. Funny thing is
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:33 PM
May 2016

he dumped me. Left me with 4 kids. All because I dared disagree with him once. I became the 'enemy'. Those were his words. "You don't support me anymore so you might as well be my enemy."

Found out later he had been cheating for years. Led a double life. I was lucky he dumped me.

I had a dysfunctional upbringing (narcissistic co-dependent parents) and so did not see the obvious red flags. Believed everything he told me. Truly believed everything he said with my heart and soul. Apparently this is a typical coping mechanism for kids of narcissistic/sociopathic parents where there is abuse. You either trust everyone, all of the time, or you trust no one, ever. A child's mind has to take one path or the other if they have no guidance on a healthy way to decipher dysfunctional behavior. That's what the same psychologist told me anyway. I thought he was rescuing me. He wasn't physically abusive, and most of the time he treated me well, but obviously leading a double life/cheating is not being well treated. There were mind games, emotional abuse and other things in retrospect, but I was used to that due to my upbringing - my life with him was better than my home life by far. It was still awful though compared to how I should have been treated. I know that now.

Anyway, yes, lucky to get out but still deal with him on a regular basis due to the kids. He behaves relatively well now because I've called him out on it. Generally, like any bully, if you meet their behavior with the same, they will back down. Plus, I've heard through his mother (who is 100% on my side on this, sociopathy runs in the male side of her family so she understands what is going on) that he 'chose' me because he knew I'd be a good mother, and he doesn't want to piss me off so much that I would hate the kids. Like I would EVER! but because that is what he would do if he was in my position, he assumes that's what I would do as well. He just can't even imagine what someone with empathy and love really thinks, YK?

Old Crow

(2,212 posts)
25. And a second Wow.
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:40 PM
May 2016

A couple observations:

First, your situation was worse than I was thinking. When you said Trump reminds me of your ex, you weren't kidding.

Second, it's impressive how well you've come to understand the entire situation and continue to grow as a human being, despite the barriers thrown in your way. Go, you. Your kids have a great mom, judging by these posts.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
30. You are too kind
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:52 PM
May 2016

I appreciate your kind words. I'm lucky that I was able to start over, because I have brains so I was able to go get a degree (and a crappy job that doesn't pay enough, lol) and because of the laws where I live, my ex does have to pay child support, so I am able to pay bills and I was able to put myself through school without too much debt.

And researching and learning is kind of a hobby for me, so finding out 'what was wrong' with my ex led me to find out what was also wrong with my parents...and the psychologist pushed me in the right direction as well. With time, I was able to see the larger picture.

Old Crow

(2,212 posts)
33. You've done great and your story is inspiring.
Sat May 7, 2016, 10:08 PM
May 2016

It's nice to see that someone can come out of such a bad situation and manage to not be controlled by the psychic baggage.

Feel free to drop me an email or say hi in the threads. It was a pleasure meeting you.

lindysalsagal

(20,686 posts)
63. Great description of fRump supporters, millions of them:
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:33 PM
May 2016
I had a dysfunctional upbringing (narcissistic co-dependent parents) and so did not see the obvious red flags. Believed everything he told me. Truly believed everything he said with my heart and soul. Apparently this is a typical coping mechanism for kids of narcissistic/sociopathic parents where there is abuse. You either trust everyone, all of the time, or you trust no one, ever.


Glad you and your kids are free of this monster. Lessons learned the hard way. Often, women in your position wind up dead, or addicted to drugs or drink. We're glad you're here, with us!

lindysalsagal

(20,686 posts)
62. Yep. fRump's the ass-hole we've already survived: He's losing more woman than any previous
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:29 PM
May 2016

national candidate.

I'm hoping people just put up billboards: Trump: You're such an ass-hole!

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
13. Hmm, the short-fingered vulgarian is vulnerable to the slightest criticism.
Sat May 7, 2016, 08:59 PM
May 2016

* inflated sense of their own importance: check

* deep need for admiration: check

* lack of empathy for others: check

* charming, out-going: check

* winning without warmth: check

* no refined sense of humor: check

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
106. Agreed on all, except...
Mon May 9, 2016, 02:27 PM
May 2016

charming. I guess persevered charm is very much a matter of taste. I don't find him charming in the least. Revolting. Irritating. Infuriating. But not charming.

kag

(4,079 posts)
27. I'm afraid that if we kicked every person with this disorder...
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:46 PM
May 2016

out of Congress, we'd only have about five people left...maybe.

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)
31. A book entitled...
Sat May 7, 2016, 10:07 PM
May 2016

... Without Conscience describes Trump's personality type perfectly. Sadly, as Ms Caldwell points out, it also describes 90% of Congress as well. Oh, and let's not forget Lloyd "We're Doing God's Work" Blankfein, and pretty much anyone that works on Wall Street. I'm sure such personality traits are a prerequisite for the job.

The weird part is that they are so obvious. How the hell is anyone taken in by people like Trump? Don't say much for the intelligence of those who support him. But then, they're probably just like him. Their contribution to the gene pool is subject to question. Just look at the photos his sons are so proud of, like slicing off the tails of dead elephants. 'Nuff said.

womanofthehills

(8,709 posts)
43. Another good book on the subject - "The Psychopath Next Door"
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:10 AM
May 2016

by Martha Stout - She says that a lot of psychopaths get away with their behavior because people tend to think that other people have a conscience like them.

catchnrelease

(1,945 posts)
66. That is a good one
Sun May 8, 2016, 01:08 PM
May 2016

I read it many years ago when a co-worker recommended it, as it explained why one of our supervisors was so difficult to work with. Then we were passing the book around and all agreed, this woman was the perfect example of a psychopath. Really an eye-opener.

Once I was aware of her personality disorder I kind of watched her behavior and attempts at manipulation from an observer's point of view, so to speak. Rather than being drawn into her games, I could more easily stand back and see what she was trying to do. Then I was able to sort of work around her and get my job done properly without getting into trouble. Sad to think adults have to go through that kind of bs!

millard filmore

(9 posts)
92. Re: A book entitled ...
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:37 PM
May 2016

"Don't say much for the intelligence of those who support him. But then, they're probably just like him."

My brother was the smart one of us kids growing up. All 'A's in school, 'A's in college (math major). He supports Trump, and no, I do not want to know why. He was for Romney last time, and got upset 4 years before when I called Palin a dingbat.

"Their contribution to the gene pool is subject to question."

My brother has 2 sons that got 'A's in school. The older one is getting a math PhD, the younger one might try for medical doctor. I hope those 2 are too young and busy for a political position.

Don't be complacent or dismissive. As Trump's current position shows, its real easy to stampede the idiots ... err, masses.

mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)
39. Trump is a grenade lobbed at the Republican Party
Sat May 7, 2016, 11:00 PM
May 2016

He's pushing things they kept below the surface into direct sunlight, specifically racism and sexism. Incidentally, Hillary's campaign is designed specifically to position her as fighting against those things. Trump is also crack to their base.

ecstatic

(32,704 posts)
44. I'd like to hear more about how a narcissistic psychopath would
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:15 AM
May 2016

govern. We already have a few terrifying clues. The article referenced his fascist desire to make any media criticism of him illegal. He encourages his thug supporters to punch protesters in the face. He jokes about killing people in Times Square. He tells disgusting lies to incite racial hate crimes against Muslims, Mexicans, etc. I honestly think he'd find ways to kill Americans who were inconvenient nuisances. That is why people compare him to Hitler!

Also, assuming he's a narcissistic psychopath, which diagnosis explains his failure to advance past middle school (or elementary school?) level thinking, conversation, and taunts? He behaves like a 6th grade bully. I'm still stunned and disappointed by how low the rethug party has such sunk this time.

Initech

(100,076 posts)
47. Called it!!!!!
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:04 AM
May 2016

I said that in one of the Top 10s I did. I said something like: "Donald Trump is a belligerent narcissistic egomaniacal sociopaths who has a side case of rageaholism. You can't insult a guy like that, it means nothing to him."

thesquanderer

(11,986 posts)
50. As a rule, we should vote for policy rather than personality, but...
Sun May 8, 2016, 10:53 AM
May 2016

...in Trump's case, voting against him as a person is more important than voting against him on policy. Even if you agreed with some of his positions, even if someone preferred him to Hillary on issues, it would just be plain dangerous to put this guy in charge.

lindysalsagal

(20,686 posts)
52. "Gardner added that "for me, the compelling question is the psychological state of his supporters.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:06 PM
May 2016

They are unable or unwilling to make a connection between the challenges faced by any president and the knowledge and behavior of Donald Trump. In a democracy, that is disastrous."

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
55. The Donald Trumps of the world
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:15 PM
May 2016

rule the world. They have a natural advantage over people with weaknesses like a consciousness, compassion, and morality. It has pretty much been this way since at least the founding of agricultural civilization. The problem will be resolved soon if we weak folks don't wrest control from them before they destroy global civilization, and those of us who survive are living in tribes again.

Grammy23

(5,810 posts)
67. I guess that is why I am actually looking forward to the election.
Sun May 8, 2016, 01:18 PM
May 2016

At that point, all the chickens will come home to roost. All the predictions of Trump's failure to lure back enough women, Hispanics and African American voters to win will come true. I hate to admit that I am licking my chops at the thought of a Trump concession speech, but I am. He has been so hateful, deceitful and full of lies and half truths, that the only fitting result should be a landslide loss in November. Utter defeat. He has set the terms for this election and he can live with the results. I will be popping some corn and preparing lots of snacks come election night 2016. I am willing to bet I won't be the only one.

Tab

(11,093 posts)
69. Sociopath, not psychopath
Sun May 8, 2016, 01:46 PM
May 2016

He's a classic narcisstic sociopath.

'Cause, ya know, I don't want to impugne the pyschopaths out there.

Quixote1818

(28,936 posts)
96. If you read the definition of both at the link above he is actually more more of a psychopath
Sun May 8, 2016, 07:58 PM
May 2016


Snip: Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned.

Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain people’s trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath
 

braddy

(3,585 posts)
73. An area of Trump psychology that interests me, is his emotional thrill seeking through compulsive
Sun May 8, 2016, 04:31 PM
May 2016

competition and combativeness.

People mention how he would be just as wealthy, or richer, if he had done some kind of fund or something, but that isn't Trump.
Trump's entire life is fighting and beating people, he needs his emotional beat downs and triumphs, even if they cost him dearly in some way, as it has in the primary, which seems to be more of a gluttonous self indulgent feast of destruction and chaos for Trump than anything, Trump lives for these constant ego highs.

If Trump got into the White House he would be instantly bored with the day to day effort to maintain and project to the world, stability, as a president to 330 million Americans and as the most powerful man on earth, so how does this emotionally unstable man get his emotional fixes and highs, what instabilities and personal enemies would he introduce nationally and internationally so that he could fight and play in a chaotic sand box constantly, and maintain the passionate adoration of the (a) crowd, that he craves so badly?

I can't see Trump merely being a competent administrator and calming influence for 4 years, while sitting behind the desk in the Oval office.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
83. Neurologist adds, "With the early signs of dementia plainly obvious."
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:17 PM
May 2016

Trump couldn't pass a memory test today.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
87. St. Ronnie, and I was telling everyone about his decline long before the rest of the world knew.
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:24 PM
May 2016

People refused to even entertain the idea because he was the President. Hey, old people get Alzheimer's, let's face the facts.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
88. Damn, you need a psych degree to spot that?
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:25 PM
May 2016

I think if you look up "narcissitic psychopath" on wikipedia, it has his picture.

houston16revival

(953 posts)
95. I had a relationship with a narcissist
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:57 PM
May 2016

she never laughed at anything, and certainly not at my dry, oft times sarcastic
sense of humor

Her only laughter was sadistic, which is also a tendency in some NPD cases

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