Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
Sat May 14, 2016, 06:39 PM May 2016

Consumer Reports: Veggie Burgers Let You Say, 'Make Mine Meatless'

http://www.consumerreports.org/veggie-burgers/veggie-burgers-let-you-say-make-mine-meatless/

Have you ever been at a cookout, munching on your perfectly grilled hamburger, feeling sorry for your meat-eschewing friends who have to settle for veggie burgers? Maybe you’re the one who is missing out.

That’s because many of today’s veggie burgers are legitimately delicious, bearing little resemblance to the rubbery, flavorless discs you may have tasted once and vowed never to try again. At restaurants such as Superiority Burger in New York City, veggie burgers have achieved gourmet status, and fast food chains are getting onboard, too. Wendy’s is test-marketing a black bean burger that’s getting thumbs-up for great taste, and White Castle last year added a veggie slider to its menu.

Clearly, veggie burgers are having a moment. According to a 2015 survey from market research firm Mintel, 25 percent of Americans say meatless burgers are on the menu more than once per month; many eat them several times weekly.


xpost in Vegetarian, Vegan and Animal Rights
82 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Consumer Reports: Veggie Burgers Let You Say, 'Make Mine Meatless' (Original Post) LiberalElite May 2016 OP
So does the article rank the burgers on how closely they mimic actual beef, or does it rank them by Brickbat May 2016 #1
Read it and find out nt LiberalElite May 2016 #2
By subscription only Major Nikon May 2016 #4
Ranking based on mimicking beef would be pointless. MH1 May 2016 #17
I asked because some meatless products tout themselves as "bridges" to a vegan lifestyle. Brickbat May 2016 #55
I think the market and the marketing has matured. MH1 May 2016 #80
Human history, which goes back many millennia, is that humans are omnivores. longship May 2016 #3
You ever think some just like more options? Major Nikon May 2016 #6
Do you mean like Orcas? Or Wolverines? Or lions? Or tigers? longship May 2016 #8
More like legumes which is what these are made from Major Nikon May 2016 #9
I love beans. longship May 2016 #10
Thanks. snort May 2016 #12
I like eggs. longship May 2016 #15
The things you mentioned aren't omnivores Major Nikon May 2016 #13
I'm a Flexitarian. blogslut May 2016 #11
The origins of pizza were vegan, kentauros May 2016 #21
The shit most Americans call pizza doesn't hold a candle to Neapolitan pizza Major Nikon May 2016 #29
I like a good margherita from time to time. kentauros May 2016 #32
... Major Nikon May 2016 #36
Nice! :) kentauros May 2016 #41
I've kicked around the idea of building a wood fired pizza oven Major Nikon May 2016 #47
Looks delicious! kentauros May 2016 #50
If you have a decent one, you can use it for other things Major Nikon May 2016 #53
I've never even heard of that. kentauros May 2016 #58
A guy I work with said they make a pizza stone just for the Big Green Egg Major Nikon May 2016 #61
Yeah, I can see how it would create more heat. kentauros May 2016 #63
I think people should eat what they want The Velveteen Ocelot May 2016 #28
"Everyone to their own taste," said the old woman..... lastlib May 2016 #26
We're not really at the top of the food chain Major Nikon May 2016 #31
"Vegans are fucking idiots." yewberry May 2016 #16
The entire history of humankind is counter to the vegan argument. longship May 2016 #18
You have no idea why people might make the decision. yewberry May 2016 #19
Hominids evolved as omnivores. longship May 2016 #22
That path to evolution almost certainly involved scavengry Major Nikon May 2016 #34
We can be proud of who we are. We can discuss what we like to eat the same way you do. mucifer May 2016 #39
You're the only person in this thread telling people what they should eat n/m ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #69
Did I tell anybody what to eat? longship May 2016 #72
You ran in here telling vegans to "Fuck you" ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #75
Keep my choices to myself, like you did? yewberry May 2016 #73
So, did your vegan girlfriend dump you? kwassa May 2016 #20
Nope. Just like most folks, I am an omnivore. longship May 2016 #23
Why do you give a shit what anyone else eats? kwassa May 2016 #24
Nope, no threat at all. longship May 2016 #30
I am vegan and I eat ice cream and pizza. stillwaiting May 2016 #33
If you are a vegan, no cow milk for you. longship May 2016 #37
You lack creativity and vision. stillwaiting May 2016 #40
There is no vegan ice cream or vegan pizza. longship May 2016 #45
Fuck off. You are such an asshole. nt stillwaiting May 2016 #81
Your overblown reaction to what others eat make you sound very threatened. kwassa May 2016 #38
That was the word I was trying to remember. kentauros May 2016 #44
And history -refutes- your idea that there is no vegan pizza. kentauros May 2016 #46
The entirety of your historical knowledge kentauros May 2016 #25
The history of hominid diet is in their teeth. longship May 2016 #35
If vegans are "doomed" kentauros May 2016 #42
My issue is not with vegetarians; it's with vegans. longship May 2016 #49
You seem to be stuck on human evolution kentauros May 2016 #56
Well, let me clarify. longship May 2016 #62
And our teeth have been evolving ever since. kentauros May 2016 #64
If that's your best case for eating meat... Major Nikon May 2016 #43
I am not making the case against vegetarians. longship May 2016 #54
If that's the case you're doing a piss poor job of it Major Nikon May 2016 #59
I am not trying to be an asshole. longship May 2016 #67
You must be quite impressive when you're actually trying Major Nikon May 2016 #71
Yes, you literally do say "fuck you" to vegans and vegetarians. yewberry May 2016 #74
Well, the idea of vegan is a bit crazy, so yes, I basically say fuck you. longship May 2016 #77
Animal agriculture is a leading driver of climate change. milestogo May 2016 #82
Enjoy the steak nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #51
I don't eat a lot of steak. Occasionally, yes. longship May 2016 #57
I am. nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #68
I'm less interested in your opinions about foods Trajan May 2016 #76
I love that a moron like you has dropped in. flvegan May 2016 #78
I have a cousin who is a vegan. One cannot invite his family for dinner. longship May 2016 #79
I think the term "burger" misleads many to think "beef" nadine_mn May 2016 #5
My wife likes meatless burgers madokie May 2016 #7
I would eat burgers if there was a vegeterian option Albertoo May 2016 #14
I eat fish and poultry, but Im all for better veggie burgers as well. Warren DeMontague May 2016 #27
now that I'm vegetarian plus seafood, eggs & dairy, I'll give them another try. n/t eShirl May 2016 #48
Desert survival taught me if it moves, it's edible. if it grows, it may kill you. hobbit709 May 2016 #52
I prefer Boca Burgers, or even better my own veggie burgers riderinthestorm May 2016 #60
Based on my limited experience Retrograde May 2016 #65
I like the addition of the pecans. kentauros May 2016 #66
Meh ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #70

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
1. So does the article rank the burgers on how closely they mimic actual beef, or does it rank them by
Sat May 14, 2016, 06:43 PM
May 2016

how they taste unto themselves, as fried veggie patties?

MH1

(17,600 posts)
17. Ranking based on mimicking beef would be pointless.
Sat May 14, 2016, 08:51 PM
May 2016

The best veggie burgers don't attempt to mimic beef, they have their own distinct flavor.

I personally like the Mediterranean chickpea version from Morningstar Farms. Not a fan of most of their varieties, but I really like that one.

MH1

(17,600 posts)
80. I think the market and the marketing has matured.
Sun May 15, 2016, 08:46 AM
May 2016

When veggie burgers first came out, they were targeted to people attempting to switch to a meatless diet, as you say. But nowadays the goal for many people is "less meat", not necessarily meatless, and a more varied, flavorful diet overall. For those people, just not having meat isn't enough, it has to actually taste good and have good nutritional value. TVP* won't cut it. It isn't meant to be "fake meat", it is meant to be something else, flavorful, and preferably have enough protein to replace meat on the plate. So you will have meals where meat is replaced by something that doesn't even pretend to be meat, but for these people there will also be occasional meals that have traditional meat dishes as well.

And I would guess that vegans and 100% vegetarians would also like the newer, more flavorful, "not fake meat" options. I wouldn't know, I'm an omnivore.

* TVP = textured vegetable protein, mostly made from soy, has a tendency to taste like cardboard unless carefully prepared.

longship

(40,416 posts)
3. Human history, which goes back many millennia, is that humans are omnivores.
Sat May 14, 2016, 07:10 PM
May 2016

Arguments for vegetarianism are as least as stupid as creationists arguments that therapod dinosaurs were vegetarians on Noah's ark. Citation: Ken Ham. (Equally idiotic)

And it also totally ignores nature. There are no vegan predictors. None whatsoever. Evolution (that means biology) does not select based on any human ethical standard. It is literally nature tooth and claw.

Deal with it.

I like my steak medium rare, on the rare side please.

I like peas, too. However, I have little sympathy for pea eaters, those who claim to be vegans. No eggs? No milk? Worst, no ice cream!!!!!

Vegans are loonies.

longship

(40,416 posts)
8. Do you mean like Orcas? Or Wolverines? Or lions? Or tigers?
Sat May 14, 2016, 07:35 PM
May 2016

They all eat meat, exclusively. It's nature, tooth and claw.

Vegans are idiots. They pretend that nature isn't natural. So they do not eat anything that isn't vegetable. No eggs. And no ice cream!!! And don't get me started about vegan pizza, which is not in any sense pizza. It isn't even food, like much of vegan dietary restrictions.

Foodless eating. That's vegan.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
9. More like legumes which is what these are made from
Sat May 14, 2016, 07:38 PM
May 2016

Sounds pretty idiotic to suspect "Orcas? Or Wolverines? Or lions? Or tigers?"

Why do you hate beans?

longship

(40,416 posts)
10. I love beans.
Sat May 14, 2016, 07:55 PM
May 2016

But try to feed an orca on beans. Or a shark. Or a rattlesnake.

Vegans are idiots because they ignore nature, and human omnivorous history. The only hope for vegans is that they will likely die off for lack of ice cream (more for me). Or any other source of protein. Well, there's still beans, and peas. But farts can only take one so far. No eggs? What kind of madness is this?

Fuck vegans. I like ice cream and eggs. And who can make egg nog without both dairy and eggs? (And brandy!)


Vegans are fucking idiots.

longship

(40,416 posts)
15. I like eggs.
Sat May 14, 2016, 08:32 PM
May 2016

Basted so the whites are solid. On toast, with BUTTER, and marmalade.

Vegans are so crazy that eggs and butter -- and fucking cheese! -- are foreign to them.
What kind of life is that?

How does a vegan order a pizza? I guess that they just don't. Either that or they have no idea about pizza. Let me make this clear. Life is not worth living without pizza.

And to those who claim that being vegan extends their life I will state that the extent that being vegan extends ones life is directly proportional to the horror of their lives.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
13. The things you mentioned aren't omnivores
Sat May 14, 2016, 08:17 PM
May 2016

So including them in a rant about "human omnivorous history" is a bit idiotic, as is hoping for the extinction of vegans while encouraging others to fuck them. So while it may be true that some vegans are idiots(as evidenced by your first reply), you actually make a better case for some non-vegans.

Just sayin'

blogslut

(38,002 posts)
11. I'm a Flexitarian.
Sat May 14, 2016, 08:15 PM
May 2016

I am not opposed to eating meat but I think meat-centric diets are unhealthy and expensive. One should have a mix of fruits/vegetables, grains and complete proteins.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
21. The origins of pizza were vegan,
Sat May 14, 2016, 09:28 PM
May 2016

even if it that term wasn't invented yet or even imagined. It all had to so with the fact that dairy (butter, cheese) were for the affluent and above. Peasants ate focaccia bread that had a wash of tomato sauce and maybe some slices of tomato baked onto it.

Innovation
The innovation that led to flat bread pizza was the use of tomato as a topping. For some time after the tomato was brought to Europe from the Americas in the 16th century, it was believed by many Europeans to be poisonous (as some other fruits of the nightshade family are). However, by the late 18th century, it was common for the poor of the area around Naples to add tomato to their yeast-based flat bread, and so the pizza began. The dish gained popularity, and soon pizza became a tourist attraction as visitors to Naples ventured into the poorer areas of the city to try the local specialty.

Purists, like the famous pizzeria “Da Michele” in Via C. Sersale (founded 1870), consider there to be only two true pizzas — the Marinara and the Margherita — and that is all they serve. These two "pure" pizzas are the ones preferred by many Italians today.

The Marinara is the older of the two and has a topping of tomato, oregano, garlic and extra virgin olive oil. It is named “marinara” because it was traditionally the food prepared by "la marinara", the seaman's wife, for her seafaring husband when he returned from fishing trips in the Bay of Naples.

The Margherita is topped with modest amounts of tomato sauce, mozzarella cheese and fresh basil. It is widely attributed to baker Raffaele Esposito, who worked at "Pizzeria di Pietro," established in 1880. Though recent research casts doubt on this legend, the tale holds that, in 1889, he baked three different pizzas for the visit of King Umberto I and Queen Margherita of Savoy. The Queen's favorite was a pizza evoking the colors of the Italian flag — green (basil leaves), white (mozzarella), and red (tomatoes). According to the tale, this combination was named Pizza Margherita in her honor. Although those were the most preferred, today there are many variations of pizzas.

"Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana" ("True Neapolitan Pizza Association&quot , which was founded in 1984, has set the very specific rules that must be followed for an authentic Neapolitan pizza. These include that the pizza must be baked in a wood-fired, domed oven; that the base must be hand-kneaded and must not be rolled with a pin or prepared by any mechanical means (i pizzaioli — the pizza makers — make the pizza by rolling it with their fingers) and that the pizza must not exceed 35 centimetres in diameter or be more than one-third of a centimetre thick at the centre. The association also selects pizzerias all around the world to produce and spread the verace pizza napoletana philosophy and method.


So much for the idea that pizza can't be vegan. Even traditional Italian pizzerias understand that you have no clue about which you speak.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
29. The shit most Americans call pizza doesn't hold a candle to Neapolitan pizza
Sat May 14, 2016, 09:56 PM
May 2016

Of the two I prefer the margherita which while vegetarian isn't vegan.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
32. I like a good margherita from time to time.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:02 PM
May 2016

I've since learned (from DU) to order pizza uncut. No more soggy slices! I'll have to order a margherita that way, because the sogginess factor has always been a major factor of not ordering it again.

Don't know where I read/heard it, but one criticism of how Americans view pizza is that they measure a pizza's quality by the heft of a slice. The heavier, the "better."

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
41. Nice! :)
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:28 PM
May 2016

Although I don't have what looks like a 120-150 qt. mixer (but I have used them before) or a wood-fired oven. If I ever live in a house, I'll be making a mud-oven soon after just for pizza

I liked that he was weighing the dough pieces, yet didn't seem to need to add anything to many of them. Plus, once you've manipulated dough a few dozen times, the muscle memory of how to work it seems to stay with you for a lifetime. Rolling the dough as he did is something I've done often enough that even when it's been years between hand-rolling buns or small 'loaves' like that, it always comes back to me without having to think about it.

When my cold has finally left me, I'll have to do some home-made pizzas again

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
47. I've kicked around the idea of building a wood fired pizza oven
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:46 PM
May 2016

I have plenty of space, but I just haven't really been able to justify the trouble since I just don't do pizza often enough.

I do have the dough technique down pretty well. You can mix the dough by hand easily enough and get excellent results. The tossing technique requires just a bit of practice to get passable, albeit not exactly professional results. All you need is a short list of very basic ingredients. Of those 00 flour is the hardest to find, but the wonders of the internet means you can have it delivered right to your door. Here was my very first attempt:

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
50. Looks delicious!
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:09 PM
May 2016

One thing to remember about a wood-fired oven is that you can vary the heat and use it for other things, such as baking breads, especially flatbreads like pita. Also for quick roasting veggies, and garlic

I like the one Jamie Oliver has in his backyard that he used a couple of times in "Jamie at Home"

This appears to be a different oven than he used in that series, but he is demonstrating cooking a cake in one


Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
53. If you have a decent one, you can use it for other things
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:14 PM
May 2016

One thing I haven't tried, but have heard about is using a Big Green Egg with a pizza stone. The advantage is you can get it much hotter than a conventional oven. The down side is you don't have a hotter size which you can use to rotate the pie and get the characteristic wood oven char.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
58. I've never even heard of that.
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:31 PM
May 2016

Had to look up pics of it because their website didn't really have a basic "What is it" description that I could find.

You could probably get the char if you had a pizza stone that was perforated. I've never heard of one, but you would at least get some charring from the fire below. A heavy and perforated steel plate could work just as well. You might still have to have it custom-made, but I'd think a decent machine shop could stamp one out for you pretty easily.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
61. A guy I work with said they make a pizza stone just for the Big Green Egg
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:35 PM
May 2016

He was telling me about the pluses and minuses of it, but I don't remember much. I just thought at the time it might not be a bad way to go because at least you could produce a lot more heat.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
63. Yeah, I can see how it would create more heat.
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:44 PM
May 2016

Without reading more on the Egg, it looks like it would also keep more humidity in. That could be a problem with the topside of the baking, as it would extend the cooking time.

Jamie Oliver mentions in one of his videos that you can use a thick piece of granite from your garden center and cut to fit your oven. And as granite can be perforated without losing much in strength, compared to the higher fragility of a pizza stone, that might be a better choice to consider for your Egg

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,735 posts)
28. I think people should eat what they want
Sat May 14, 2016, 09:53 PM
May 2016

without being insulted by anyone else. If other people want to be vegans, how is that a problem for you? I don't choose to eat that way because most of the vegan food I've had tastes to me like mulch, but I couldn't care less if that's what other people prefer, for whatever reason. Someone else's veganism doesn't take the steaks and burgers off your plate.

lastlib

(23,250 posts)
26. "Everyone to their own taste," said the old woman.....
Sat May 14, 2016, 09:48 PM
May 2016

...as she kissed the pig........

What's the point of getting to the top of the food chain if you're going to eat vegetables??!?

. . .

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
31. We're not really at the top of the food chain
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:00 PM
May 2016

A few people per year manage to get killed and eaten by sharks and bears.

But to answer the question I'd have to say shitting right is a pretty good incentive.

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
16. "Vegans are fucking idiots."
Sat May 14, 2016, 08:46 PM
May 2016

"Vegans are loonies."

"The only hope for vegans is that will likely die off..."

"Fuck vegans."

Fuck you.

longship

(40,416 posts)
18. The entire history of humankind is counter to the vegan argument.
Sat May 14, 2016, 09:05 PM
May 2016

Humans are omnivores and always have been.
Drops mic.

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
19. You have no idea why people might make the decision.
Sat May 14, 2016, 09:15 PM
May 2016

Judging an entire group of people based on your own lack of understanding of their reasons is a real shit move. Makes no difference if humans are are omnivores; not all individuals are.

longship

(40,416 posts)
22. Hominids evolved as omnivores.
Sat May 14, 2016, 09:33 PM
May 2016

That is what the science says, and all one needs to make an argument for eating meat, at least partially. It is how humans got to where we are.

Now if you want to forgo ice cream and cheese because it comes from cows, or eggs because they come from chickens, that's your loss.

If you want to argue that nobody else should have ice cream, cheese, or eggs FUCK YOU.

Vegans are ideological idiots.

If you don't want to eat meat, cheese or eggs, that's your right. Just leave the rest of us alone. In other words, I don't care if you eat shit. That's your business.

My best regards, just as long as you keep your dietary habits to yourself.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
34. That path to evolution almost certainly involved scavengry
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:08 PM
May 2016

So if you really wish to remain true to your origins, you should be eating roadkill. So you might want to include Burgoo and Hobo Stew in your culinary choices.

mucifer

(23,553 posts)
39. We can be proud of who we are. We can discuss what we like to eat the same way you do.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:17 PM
May 2016

Someone put in a thread about how great veggie burgers are and somehow it upsets you because we aren't keeping our thoughts to ourselves.

That's your problem not mine.

I don't think you look at the world from our point of view. We can't go ANYWHERE without adds for meat and dairy or our friends and family talking about the wonders of the last great meat or dairy they have eaten.

It's all in our face. So why don't YOU hide your diet from everyone around you.

That's why I turn around that stupid joke:

How do you know when someone eats meat? Don't worry they will fucking tell you!

longship

(40,416 posts)
72. Did I tell anybody what to eat?
Sun May 15, 2016, 12:41 AM
May 2016

I don't think so. I just find vegans pretty strange. Especially the no dairy and no egg thing. It is difficult enough to eat a nutritional vegetarian diet. A vegan diet is much more difficult when one cuts off dairy and eggs.

Why do they do that? It makes no sense whatsoever. And if a vegan couple has a child, does it suffer because the parents have an ideological objection to dairy?

I just find vegans to be strangely ideological. I know many vegetarians. They are cool about omnivores among them. If invited to dinner they will casually mention it. I find that somewhat different with professed vegans. They seem to want to give the dinner host a list of taboos.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
75. You ran in here telling vegans to "Fuck you"
Sun May 15, 2016, 01:30 AM
May 2016

When no one said jack shit except posting an article about veggie burgers.

You seem unhinged.

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
73. Keep my choices to myself, like you did?
Sun May 15, 2016, 12:55 AM
May 2016

You have every right to shove your ideas down everyone's throats, but I don't have the right to make my choices without you calling me names and wishing for my death?

I never argued anyone's right to do anything. That was you. I never called anyone an idiot or compared them to Ken Ham. That was you. Obviously, you do care if I eat shit, because you seem to have some kind of pathologically aggressive need to attack me for no reason. You care a lot, but that's clearly some kind of psychological problem on your part. Seek help.

Tell you what, when you come from a family with catastrophic heart disease, cancer, kidney stones, obesity, diabetes, and alzheimers, then you can talk to me about my choices. All of those things have lower rates among non-meat eaters. Until then, your opinion is worth less than nothing.

And you can shove your passive-aggressive best regards.

longship

(40,416 posts)
30. Nope, no threat at all.
Sat May 14, 2016, 09:57 PM
May 2016

However, what I do object to are the idiot vegans who think that nobody else should eat meat, dairy (CHEESE!!!!), eggs, etc.

Fuck them!

If I owned a pizzeria and somebody ordered a vegan pizza, I would inform them that we do not serve oxymorons. There are no vegan pizzas. I would also gladly and politely send them to the pea eating establishment down the street where they could get a vegan meal.

Few are vegans. I am not against them, but I also don't think every pizzeria should have to accommodate them. My cousin and his family are vegans. They are really good cooks. But I would not want to grow up in such a narrow minded environment. Why? Because all the rest of humanity would be portrayed as "the other", just like religion.

Veganism is just like religion. Ideological.

Worst! No fucking ice cream! That's downright cruel!

longship

(40,416 posts)
37. If you are a vegan, no cow milk for you.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:13 PM
May 2016

No ice cream, no cheese (that means no pizza), no eggs either.

My opinion is that vegans are worse than vegetarians. They not only want no meat, they want no food!

And as I posted above, the extent that their lives are extended is directly proportional to the horror of their lives. They will never know bacon. They will never know bagels, cream cheese, and Nova Scotia lox. They will only know peas, beans, and apparently lots of farts.

It is not a life I would want to live. And for a parent to inflict such a thing on their child... Well, let's just say that I am glad that my parents were not loonies. Sadly, my cousin is.

My philosophy:
Food is good for you. Eat food!

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
40. You lack creativity and vision.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:18 PM
May 2016

And I guaran-damntee you that you have not had the pleasure of being able to eat lots of the vegan food that I get to eat.

Vegan pizza and vegan ice cream exists. You can even buy it in the store (or make it yourself-LOTS of incredible recipes).

I am not trying to make you or anyone else a vegan. When someone trashes ALL vegans though as you have done, I would expect to see that shit on right wing sites. Not here.

Shame really.

longship

(40,416 posts)
45. There is no vegan ice cream or vegan pizza.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:41 PM
May 2016

If you want fucking ice cream it has CREAM in it. Not vegan!

If you want pizza it has CHEESE. Not vegan.

I suppose that you are going to next argue that there's a vegan omelet. Sorry, eggs are not vegan either.

It seems that most of food is not vegan.

How do vegan pea eaters live? Going out to dinner must be a bitch. No eggs, dairy, meat. I cannot think of a restaurant that could serve them.

"I'm a vegan and your menu has nothing for me except just give me this house salad, no cheese and just vinegar and olive oil for dressing."

How can anybody live on that? Poor deluded souls.

Food is good for you. Eat food.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
38. Your overblown reaction to what others eat make you sound very threatened.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:15 PM
May 2016

Not only do what others eat have nothing to do with you, what restaurants choose to serve has nothing to do with you with your steak and pizza.

I've had vegan pizza, by the way, and it was good. I prefer it to other kinds, purely on flavor. I've eaten lots of wonderful, delicious vegan food.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
44. That was the word I was trying to remember.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:38 PM
May 2016

"Threatened"

Every meat-eater that's ever taken an antagonistic stance with me always came across as being threatened by the very existence of someone not eating meat. It was like I had suddenly burned an American flag in their presence. Completely irrational, especially when they begin to mock my food-choices or offer me some of their meat-based lunch, only to sniff "You don't know what you're missing." They're always rather ignorant that way.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
46. And history -refutes- your idea that there is no vegan pizza.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:44 PM
May 2016

See my post-21 above and learn something for once.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
25. The entirety of your historical knowledge
Sat May 14, 2016, 09:42 PM
May 2016

appears to be counter to the "informed" persona you put forward on DU.

Here, read this article. Maybe you'll learn something about how vegetarianism (which includes veganism) has continued to exist throughout human history, despite the parallel existence of omnivores.

History of Vegetarianism

longship

(40,416 posts)
35. The history of hominid diet is in their teeth.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:10 PM
May 2016

They are the teeth of...

NOT A HERBIVORE!

NOT A CARNIVORE!

They are the teeth of an omnivore, an animal who ate both meat and plants. We evolved those teeth because without the high protein meat, we would not be where we are today. At one point in hominid history it is suggested that only a couple thousand of our ancestors existed. We were on the knife edge of extinction, like 90+% of all species that have ever existed. DEAD FOREVER!

Being omnivorous likely helped.

My opinion is that vegans are doomed.


kentauros

(29,414 posts)
42. If vegans are "doomed"
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:32 PM
May 2016

then why is it that all other mammalian herbivores are also vegans? That is, they don't continue to drink the milk of their mothers throughout their lives, nor do they drink the milk of other animals. And I haven't ever seen any of them making ice cream. Some may eat eggs, but that's usually the meat-eaters that do that.

By the way, if humans are truly "omnivores" then that includes a veg*n diet, due to the "omni" prefix.

longship

(40,416 posts)
49. My issue is not with vegetarians; it's with vegans.
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:03 PM
May 2016

Vegans take vegetarian to the extreme. They not only do not eat meat -- I have no problem with that, although I do eat meat -- they do not eat dairy, eggs, or anything except plants. No ice cream. No cheese. No scrambled eggs on Sunday morning.

Only vegetables.

The problem is that humans evolved as omnivores over millions of years. We had vegetarian cousins, but they all went extinct. That is not the issue, however.

The issue is depriving your progeny of things like ice cream, pizza (I mean real fucking pizza, not some fake vegan pizza which can only be called NOT PIZZA), hot dogs at the ballpark, Cream of Wheat in the morning made with real milk! Lemon meringue pie!

Sorry kid. None of that is for you -- no matter what all your friends eat. You are a vegan because we're vegans. No ice cream for you! It is like the soup nazi from Seinfeld. Vegans are food nazis. No meat, dairy, eggs for you.

Shit! No cheese????? No eggs????

ICE CREAM!!!

Vegans are Loonie Toons.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
56. You seem to be stuck on human evolution
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:22 PM
May 2016

and yet seem to also want our evolution to stop where we are now. And yet, from an earlier post, you mentioned there weren't many of us at one point in our evolution. Well, the same holds true for vegans right now in our evolution. They aren't going away, and their numbers are indeed growing. I would say it follows that they are the next step in the evolution of human dietary needs. When done correctly, a vegan diet is a thriving one.

Your needs are your needs. I won't resort to the same insulting wording you've used so far (which is also coming across as toying with the vegans just to rile them up.) However, you are either misinformed about vegan diet, or willfully ignorant. (Now granted, that is an insult normally reserved for republicans, but I think it is appropriate here.)

Vegetables are not the only things vegans and vegetarians eat. We also consume fungi (something that includes forms highly sought by omnivores' gourmet eating), algae, kelp, and fruits (remember, a tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable.)

And again, you continue to ignore the history of pizza. It had no dairy on it. It was vegan in its origins. Period.

longship

(40,416 posts)
62. Well, let me clarify.
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:39 PM
May 2016

Hominids are omnivorous. Period! No debate here. The reason I bring up evolution is because it states unequivocally how our ancestors lived. There are no herbivores in our ancestral lineage. At least not for millions of years, before hominids existed.

How do we know? Simple. Their teeth. A carnivore, an omnivore, and a herbivore have different teeth, different enough that even a cursory glance would be able to tell the difference. Hominids have pretty much been omnivores for hundreds of thousands of years. There have been no ancestors in our lineage which have been herbivores, which we know. None! (There is at least one rather old cousin which was, but they went extinct, being herbivorous was apparently not much of an advantage.)

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
64. And our teeth have been evolving ever since.
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:50 PM
May 2016

You cannot tear through the hide of a still living animal, nor tear off the flesh with the teeth we have today. They're not the same as they used to be.

So, it appears that we are evolving to a superior diet: veganism.

Omnivores will be left behind on their dead-end branch, desperately clinging to the eggs and milks of other animal species, willfully unwilling to evolve with the rest of the human race.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
43. If that's your best case for eating meat...
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:33 PM
May 2016

It sounds like dumshittery is the far bigger threat to extinction.

Certain obligate carnivores require meat sources of protein, which is why idiots that try to make kitty go vegan should be strapped to a chair and beaten to death with hammers.

If you search the list of obligate carnivores, you will not find your name on it, which means while you may require high quality sources of protein to survive, those needs can be met solely with vegetable and legume sources whether or not you choose to do so.

I suspect if we ever devolve to the point where we are once again living in trees, shitting in our hands, and throwing it at our neighbors, then opportunistic sources of protein may once again become an attractive option if not a survival necessity.

longship

(40,416 posts)
54. I am not making the case against vegetarians.
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:14 PM
May 2016

I am making it against vegans, who take things to a excessive limit.

No dairy. No eggs. Only vegetables. (Little protein, in other words, except beans)

Their ideological lifestyle will most likely result in them being called either "vegans, the flatulent" or "vegans, the extinct". History will eventually tell.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
59. If that's the case you're doing a piss poor job of it
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:31 PM
May 2016

Certainly there are finger wagging righteously indignant vegans that try to shame other people into their culinary choices. These people can rightly be considered assholes and I don't mind saying so. The vast majority of vegans do not fit into that category. The counter to this isn't a finger wagging righteously indignant non-vegan trying to shame other people into their culinary choices, because in order to be consistent I just don't see that as any less degree of assholery.

longship

(40,416 posts)
67. I am not trying to be an asshole.
Sun May 15, 2016, 12:08 AM
May 2016

I just do not see how anybody can argue for being a vegan. It's like saying "I'm a Christian."

To both I say, "Fuck you!" That is because that I know that neither one of those people came to their belief rationally. Well, I don't literally say "fuck you", however I do not give their arguments much credence. If they said that they were a vegetarian, I would nod and politely move on to another subject as soon as I could.

But vegan is bordering on loony toons.

No dairy? No eggs? Nothing but vegetables? The only good protein source is beans, or close relatives. And then there are those who have babies, who then want to raise it vegan. What kind of kookery is that? The baby has no choice. Its needs are not vegan because millions of years of evolution have been omnivorous. If the parents do not feed it mother's milk, there are few vegan alternatives (if any). This kind of thinking has caused problems in the past, and it was the child that suffered.

If you want to be a vegetarian, that's good for you. I am fine with it, too.

But fuck vegans. They should go back to Vega. They are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

And let's get this straight. There is no vegan pizza because there is no pizza without cheese and vegans do not eat dairy. And if they do, they aren't vegan.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
71. You must be quite impressive when you're actually trying
Sun May 15, 2016, 12:29 AM
May 2016

I have no problem bashing the tenets of Christianity or veganism, but when you start bashing the people who hold those view for no other reason is when you cross that narrow bridge into Assholeville.

You've already been provided with proof that from the very beginning, pizza was, in-fact, vegan. It originated as nothing more than Italian flat bread to which olive oil and herbs were added. Everything else is culinary modification of the original recipe and there's no documentation of cheese being added for centuries. So claiming there is no pizza without cheese is simply demonstrating your ignorance. So you have very little that's straight.

The vegans I know personally are very well versed in nutrition. Claiming the only good source of protein is beans is simply nonsense. There's all sorts of grain and vegetable sources of protein outside of legumes which they along offer incredible variety. Trying to school other people on nutritional requirements which you obviously know very little about with 'think of the children' fallacies just doesn't serve your beloved cause all that well.

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
74. Yes, you literally do say "fuck you" to vegans and vegetarians.
Sun May 15, 2016, 01:03 AM
May 2016

You've done it several times in the thread, and thanks so much for the completely unprovoked attacks. You obviously are not fine with veg*ns.

Here's the thing: vegans feed their babies mother's milk. Mother's milk is vegan. What the fuck ever gave you the idea that vegans don't breastfeed their children?

You're making shit up because you don't know any better.

longship

(40,416 posts)
77. Well, the idea of vegan is a bit crazy, so yes, I basically say fuck you.
Sun May 15, 2016, 01:38 AM
May 2016

When somebody comes over for dinner and says that they are vegetarian, I know what to do and I have no problems. They need to say nothing else and it always works out great.

When somebody says that they are vegan I usually get a list of things that can't be on the menu. And they inevitably include a lot of things that are not just "not meat".

BTW, one of my best veggie meals is made from scratch macaroni and cheese, with aged extra sharp Pinconning cheddar, baked for 45 minutes, crisp on top and melty under. Sharp and yummy. But if one is vegan, all one can eat is the salad, no Romano cheese, please (a normal ingredient). That's fine. I will accommodate vegetarians, but if you are a vegan, I cannot help you beyond a simple salad. Maybe you ought to eat at home before you arrive. But unfortunately that rarely happens. They go home hungry.

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
82. Animal agriculture is a leading driver of climate change.
Sun May 15, 2016, 09:08 AM
May 2016

We need to think of the future, not the past.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
51. Enjoy the steak
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:12 PM
May 2016

We do as well...just in moderation. For us meat is a side dish, almost, not the other way around. We enjoy the meatless dish as well. It is not ethics by the way. The UN and a few others agree, in a world with 9 billion (where we are expected to crest) we will need to modify diets in the first world as well

Incidentally that is also healthier...according to doc...

longship

(40,416 posts)
57. I don't eat a lot of steak. Occasionally, yes.
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:23 PM
May 2016

But very occasionally.

I love pork chops and lamb chops. Lamb is easy to digest. It is a good meal when one is sick.

And fried chicken tastes just like therapod dinosaur. I hear.

I hope you are well, my friend. I have been following your posts. Good job! As usual.


My best.

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
76. I'm less interested in your opinions about foods
Sun May 15, 2016, 01:36 AM
May 2016

Than in observing your interaction with your fellow human beings ...

Hmm ... Is that how this we talk to people?

Nah ... It's pointlessly and gratuitously rude ...

Gone



flvegan

(64,409 posts)
78. I love that a moron like you has dropped in.
Sun May 15, 2016, 01:57 AM
May 2016

Too stupid? Yup.

Want to arm wrestle? Call me a loonie, I get to call you a moron. Rightfully so. JURY.

longship

(40,416 posts)
79. I have a cousin who is a vegan. One cannot invite his family for dinner.
Sun May 15, 2016, 03:35 AM
May 2016

He will either invite you to his house where his family will serve everybody vegan food, or he will bring his own vegan food so his family's stomachs are not poisoned by your food. Their only protein is beans of some sort, and yes, the food is very yummy, but one inevitably is hungry 15 minutes after departing.

A couple years ago our family had a family reunion. My cousin came from some distance. There were a huge number of people, all cousins. Again, his family cooked their own food so that they didn't have to suffer anybody else's (fainting couch) non-vegan food type substance even though there were many vegetable dishes.

It's difficult.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
5. I think the term "burger" misleads many to think "beef"
Sat May 14, 2016, 07:15 PM
May 2016

I was raised a vegetarian and didn't taste meat until my teens so I didn't have anything to compare. My husband on the other hand was raised on meat 3x a day...so meatless almost causes him a mild anxiety attack.

Whenever I have cooked veggie "burgers" , that word has already predisposed my husband to think meat, so he usually says 'that doesn't taste like beef' - and I have to explain it isn't supposed to taste like meat, it is supposed to taste like black beans, or veggies or whatever.

Now some companies try to make things taste like meat - like fake chicken which is pretty easy to do because isn't the default description when trying something new is to say "tastes like chicken"?

I am glad to see more fast food places having meatless options - I like fast food - fries, onion rings, etc and I do like the taste of how Burger King cooks their patties. It sucks having to come home and make a separate food for yourself while your spouse is chowing down on a cheeseburger.

 

Albertoo

(2,016 posts)
14. I would eat burgers if there was a vegeterian option
Sat May 14, 2016, 08:28 PM
May 2016

I suppose it won't be before the 20's at least in the main chains.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
60. I prefer Boca Burgers, or even better my own veggie burgers
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:33 PM
May 2016

Or a huge grilled portobello mushroom "burger"! Swoon!

I can't tell you the last time I made a hamburger, decades ago probably.

If you haven't sampled the vegetarian burger options, I strongly encourage folks to try them.

Delicious!

Retrograde

(10,137 posts)
65. Based on my limited experience
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:54 PM
May 2016

if I go to a place that makes its own veggie burgers they tend to be very good. If they just serve some commercial brand I don't find them worth the bother. The best I ever had was a small pub in Ithaca, NY: beans, barley and pecans. The trick is making them coherent enough to stick together while they're being fried, but not too dry or too mushy. I occasionally order bean burgers with bacon.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
70. Meh
Sun May 15, 2016, 12:23 AM
May 2016

I try one every few years and they never get better despite the promises. If I feel like vegatables, I'll eat the actual original form. Especially corn on the cob or yellow squash, grilled.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Consumer Reports: Veggie ...