Can we PLEASE ditch the idea that the left and the right are EQUALLY to blame?

[Ken Burch]

Since 1981, the right has massively increased the war budget, cut social benefits to the bone, crushed unions, destroyed the economies of entire regions of this country, incited and inflamed racism, sexism, homophobia and trans phobia, and in general done all it could to make life as ugly and toxic as possible in this country and in this world.

During that same time, the left has done...pretty much nothing bad whatsoever.

SO please, let's get past this notion that there is a "center" that is somehow entitled to throw equal shade on the right AND on the left.

In reality, everything has been the right's fault, and we all know it.

[libodem]

1. YES

We are not half as bad nor as perverted as they are.

[Different Drummer]

2. Exactly.

n/t

[saltpoint]

3. The evidence is strong in support of

your claim.

"The Liberal media" is a lie to disguise its heavily right-wing bias.

Attacks on women's reproductive freedoms have come from the religious Right and the Republicans who hopped into bed with them.

The "War on Drugs" is revealed to be an invocation of law enforcement against people of color:

"We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said, according to the News. "We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

(http://www.syracuse.com/us-news/index.ssf/2016/03/ehrlichman_nixon_war_on_drugs.html)

There is the rise of the Tea Party, the stacking of the courts with conservatives, the voter suppression laws, and the longstanding police bias against minorities. And the list goes on.

[KPN]

28. Most harmful of all:

" "The Liberal media" is a lie to disguise its heavily right-wing bias."

You are so right!

[saltpoint]

29. I wish I were dead wrong on that one,

KPN, but every time we tune into a news program, the propaganda just drips off the screen.

[bhikkhu]

4. Both sides are prone to extremist statements and unworkable solutions

(when solutions are even offered), but extremism in the service of justice, peace and equality is more easily forgiven.

On the other hand, "everything" is rather inclusive, and I wouldn't suggest that the right is omnisciently powerful. What is "everything"? In 1981 I entered the labor force more or less seriously (after a period of youthful drift), so that time period covers my adult life. Many things have changed, most of them having more to do with technological advances and social change than political positions.

I am inclined to think that the pace of change, and change itself, leads too many to idealize an imaginary past.

[Ken Burch]

8. I don't idealize the pre-1981 era

That era ended with a Democratic president who (even though a good man in many respects) betrayed the Democratic base(and added no new support for the party outside of that base) by listening to people like future DLC founder Al From(one of his chief economic advisors) who argued that his economic policies should give a higher priority to controlling inflation than to achieving full employment. It was that choice, in large degree, that allowed Reagan to create the "Misery Index" he used(along with the arms-for-hostages deal with Iran) to destroy Jimmy Carter's hopes for re-election in 1980.

There were also major problems in that era with racial, gender, and sexual orientation backlash.

So no, the late Seventies were not Utopia.

They were, however, an era in which it was still possible to achieve gains for the people.

Once Reagan was re-elected, the national leadership of OUR party completely abandoned any effort to try to win the argument on economic policy and on the idea of human equality. They basically settled for "Reaganism with a human mask", a basically conservative program with bits of safe, non-threatening pseudo-liberalism around the edges. It was that choice that kept us on the margins between 1980 and 1992, and which made a two-term Democratic presidency in the Nineties into a something that was largely a dead zone.

[yardwork]

11. Actually, they aren't. The left barely exists as a political voice in the U.S.

Democrats are not "prone to extremist statements and unworkable solutions," except to the extent to which they go along with Republican policies.

I only wish that there was anything close to equal push from both sides.

[KPN]

31. Easy -- vote Bernie!

My apologies in advance for taking this there as well as off topic, but I couldn't resist. All in good nature.

[yardwork]

49. Bernie's policy suggestions aren't persuasive to me at all.

[Cosmocat]

47. YEP

The democratic party is completely worthless at this point ...

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

13. Please cite an example of an extremist solution

Offered by Dems.

[Calista241]

27. "I promised to end welfare as we know it" - Bill Clinton. n/t

[bhikkhu]

37. Not from dems, but from the left in 2008 - "let the banks fail"

It wouldn't be an extremist position if there were a plan toward a solution, a plan for nationalizing banks, for instance. But having no actual plan for what comes next, the position that the banks should be allowed to fail was an irresponsible one. Its often the case that sentiment leads the powerless to reckless statements, which have no consequences as those that hold the sentiment have no power to implement them.

A better thing is to think and act as if you're voice mattered and you could be responsible for change, and as if the positions you held could come to pass. And to have a realistic plan with a likelihood of success, and a recognition of the weight of responsibility for people's day to day well being.

Bernie is a good example of one who thinks from a position of responsibility, rather than from powerlessness.

[KPN]

30. Not so.

Unworkable solutions is subjective. Unsustainable solutions is a better metric, and by that one, the left shines brightly.

The pace and breadth of change are indeed factors in idealization of the past. But returning to the past is not, and has never been, the goal of liberalism by any measure other than recognition that times have been better for the working class.

[merrily]

51. More false equivalencies.

[billhicks76]

5. The Right and the CENTER are Equally To Blame...Not The Left

And we all know who resides in the center and keeps moving that center further right.

[yardwork]

12. Nonsense. /nt

[Ken Burch]

15. Care to say why?

And it's not as though the LGBTQ community owes anything to centrists. Any centrist who did anything for your community had to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing so by grassroots activism from the LGBTQ community itself, activism usually spearheaded(as pretty much all activism is)by the left wing of that community.

[yardwork]

16. Your OP explains why. While the centrists are useless wimps,

comparing them to the demonic behavior of Republicans is nonsense. There is no comparison.

And LGBTQ rights are only one issue among all the many.

[Ken Burch]

18. MY OP didn't compare centrists to Republicans

It rejected the comparison between the left and the right, and the implication that centrists are entitled to an attitude of smug superiority.

[merrily]

54. Centrists are quite useful to the rich and powerful and not wimps at all.

Wimp is the cover up for their intentional betrayal.


The only thing wimpy is that they don't admit they're inclined to the other side, whether they've sold out or they've always been on the other side.

It's ironic that you display a Hillary logo and cite LGBTQ rights. She did not come out for equal marriage until after the SCOTUS had declared it unconstitutional anyway. Until she was Secretary of State, she was speaking against it on the Senate floor, on national TV. Surely, you must have known that.

[billhicks76]

19. That's Expected From You

Keep moving that center to the right. The result is those previously occupying that right spot you moved the center too wishing to differentiate themselves from you for cultural reasons and eventually they stray off so far extreme right that another Hitler can emerge. Most of us who think critically aren't ok with that.

[OnyxCollie]

26. A centrist Democrat who allows torture to go unpunished

is better than a far-right Republican who commits torture.

Yay, Democrats.

[MisterP]

6. we got millions of Teabaggers, while the "far left" only has like Ahuviya Harel and Bonita Tindle

as "antidemocratic left," and they ain't changin' nothin'

[Rafale]

7. Henry Ford once said

Don't find fault. Find a remedy.

[hopemountain]

9. absolutely. there is no middle ground when

it comes to greed and quality of life for american citizens.

[thucythucy]

10. "Damn right!"

Which works on so many levels...

[zentrum]

14. Yes, we all know it.

Only problem with the left is we stopped fighting back hard enough.

[HughBeaumont]

17. "Half a kitten isn't half as cute, it's a bloody mess."

Not only has the left done nothing bad whatsoever, we don't exactly have this ginormous power that the Republicans and Libertarian Party think we do.

[Fast Walker 52]

22. Not sure what you mean by "left" but we do have

The presidency.

[Hydra]

39. Who is "we"?

The Democratic Establishment has the presidency, not the Left.

[Fast Walker 52]

45. well, Dems are the official "left"

[Hydra]

57. No, the Dem Leadership calls themselves the "Center" or "Moderates" or post partisans

Or whatever term they favor at the moment. "The Professional Left" are "Fucking Retards."

[HughBeaumont]

50. Barack Obama is slightly left of center, and that's being kind.

Not many of the "left" I know of would have anything to do with the likes of Tim Geithner, Larry Summers and Jeff Imelt.

[Fast Walker 52]

53. I agree. Though it's always amusing/annoying to see people claim that Obama is such a lefty

[KPN]

32. Well, they know we don't ...

but it makes good propaganda.

[Cosmocat]

48. It is farcical

The best way to describe the parties today is that it is like the Harlem Globetrotters vs the Washington Generals.

And, the Ds aren't the Globetrotters ...

[HughBeaumont]

52. "They say America needs a third party. It sure could use a second one." - Jim Hightower.

I agree.

[Cosmocat]

60. How about it!

nm

[PufPuf23]

20. Good points. Sometimes compromise is lose-lose for nearly all.

The left and liberal anti-war demographics have had very little political support.

[alarimer]

56. Yet somehow the Democrats still expect our votes.

When they (the mainstream ones) do nothing but denigrate liberals.

The problem is that Democrats compromise from the get-go. They start with what they think they can get; this is a position of weakness.

[Fast Walker 52]

21. Yes, of course. Which is why we need to abolish the hate group

Known as the GOP. Or at least get them out of power.

[TwilightZone]

23. Assuming that this isn't sarcasm, the number of people on this website who believe...

that both sides are equally to blame for all of the shit that's happened in the past 35 years should be roughly zero, not counting the trolls.

If there are people here who claim to be in some mythical center and actually believe that both sides are equally to blame, they are being intentionally obtuse or are deluding themselves to support an agenda.

That's not to say that the left doesn't share some responsibility. It certainly does. It also is certain that it isn't a share equivalent to that of the right.

[jwirr]

24. I don't think they believe that each side did equal damage.

Overall the Rs did much more damage because they hurt the whole country. But for those of us hurt by the safety net loses it was a hit that has never gotten better.

It is more like hating the Rs totally and being not at all happy with a D who should have at least tried to help us. And I am talking about things like the tough on crime bills and welfare reform. For those of us who were hurt by that it really does not matter which one did it - they both wanted it and they left us on the way side.

[moriah]

46. That's completely legitimate criticism, not suggesting both are the same. Nt

[jwirr]

59. Thank you.

[KPN]

35. In fact, the biggest problem with the left is it's too readily willing to take a share of the blame

and therefore seek middle ground! Middle ground only works when both sides feel equally responsible. And it never works with Republicans.

[TwilightZone]

36. Nah, it's rarely that simple.

A lot of people forget that political decisions don't happen in a vacuum. Sometimes, mediocre decisions are made as a compromise because the other available alternatives were all worse.

Political context is also important, yet it often gets completely ignored. DOMA and the crime bill come to mind. Most people have seemingly forgotten the environment in which they were passed and what the alternatives were.

And, many thought that single-payer healthcare should have been a slam dunk while we had a majority in the Senate, yet they forget (or never really understood) that people like Ben Nelson were never going to vote for it. Add up a few Ben Nelsons and it's dead in the water.

Democrats aren't a monolithic bloc, even if we would sometimes like them to be.

[KPN]

38. Sometimes, yes. But too many decisions have run counter to public opinion

in the last 8 years, let alone party members' opinion!

You are being too kind to current leaders. Nice of you, but misplaced in my view.

[Brother Joe Observes]

25. The alleged "news" media is the #! culprit here

Giving equal status to climate scientists and uneducated fools is one of far-too-many examples I could list.

[GummyBearz]

33. You think there is a left wing party in this country?

I lol'd at that just now. Seriously, I can't stop. You really think that? lol

[Ken Burch]

34. I did't say there was.

Which makes the centrist claim that the left and the right are equally to blame even more laughable.

[liberal_at_heart]

40. All it takes for evil to triumph is very good men to do nothing.

Sorry but the compromising and bipartisanship has led to complicity. I blame both parties.

[Kelvin Mace]

41. Except that it has not been a fight between right and left, but

extreme right and center right.

[One_Life_To_Give]

42. Them are some seriously Rose Colored Glasses

There is something inherently flawed in the belief that one can do no wrong since someone else is worse. That is like saying the getaway driver is innocent because the bank robbers are worse people. If we can't find and correct the faults within ourselves then we have a serious problem that may be much worse than people who have done far worse but atleast recognize their mistakes and work to continuously improve.

[liberal_at_heart]

43. pretty accurate analogy.

The Democratic Party definitely aids and abets what the Republican party does.

[Iggo]

44. Feel free.

[tularetom]

55. I think we have to ditch the idea that there even IS a "left"

At least not in a position to make or implement policy. There hasn't been for many years.

[Wounded Bear]

58. All too true...

I've been watching since Nixon, though I should admit that I didn't do politics much for a lot of that time period. So, in that respect, I guess I'm part of the problem.

Since Reagan, though, the Repubs have driven farther and farther to the right. With that, liberal Repubs (yes, there used to be some of those around) and what we would think of as 'moderates' gravitated to their only option, the Dems. Consequently, the Dems have drifted and been pulled farther and farther to the right themselves, to where a few cycles back (think Clinton's first term) they actually crossed over to being a center-right party on most issues instead of left or center-left.

To compound the problem, as Repbubs got farther to the right, they became more and more extremist, and less open to any forms of compromise. Dems have been reluctant to drop their belief in compromise. This was showcased in the Obama presidency, where the Repubs categorically avowed that their main goal was to block everything the President tried to do, which they did, including many proposals that were decidedly not progressive or liberal in their implementation, the ACA being a huge example of this. It was somehow a 'miracle' that it passed, but it was and is in essence, a RW, corporate based solution to a problem screaming for a progressive, liberal one.

We've gotten to the point where any suggestion of progressivity or liberalism triggers an automatic response of "oh we couldn't do that." There never seems to be any vigorous response of "Why not?" to that rather vacuous statement. The country does need a huge shot of progressivism and liberal action, and we can't seem to get it.

As to the thought behind the OP, IMNSHO the Right is to blame as primary instigators, but the left, such as it remains, has been complicit and enabling in the process.

[ancianita]

61. Yes, we can. But we have to move beyond the bind of blaming and look at successes that

come from finding common cause.

When guilt ridden right wingers have said that, I've usually pointed to the root causes of what they're both doing.

Then we come up with a way to join to work on that instead of making each other feel bad.