Let's talk about white privilege.

[yardwork]

What does it mean? What does it not mean?

As a white woman, I have observed and benefited from white privilege.

Sometimes it's hard to see. Other times it's obvious. Most blatantly, there have been times when servers have attempted to serve me before a black person who was ahead of me in line. That's so obvious, everybody can see it.

There are much more powerful and subtle ways that some whites attempt to privilege other whites by oppressing people of color. Numerous studies have proven that it's easier for white people to get loans or job interviews, even when their credentials are equal to those of black applicants.

Some of this bias is unconscious, I believe. We carry around a lot of opinions, beliefs, and biases. Even when we don't want to admit we're wrong, sometimes we do wrong or enable wrongdoing.

Why does this matter? Aside from the unfairness, inequality hurts everybody. It's much more than "doing the right thing because it's nice." Our survival as a species depends on getting it together, as a planet. Wasting time hating and oppressing one another will result in failure. Think of the wars and genocide caused by prejudice and hate. The outcome will be grim.

As white people, what can we do about this?

The first step is admitting that the problem exists. We can set down defensiveness. That's hard, if we personally feel oppressed. Let's talk about that.

[cyberswede]

1. People get defensive about it, for some reason.

As if it's an assault on their character to say they benefit from WP.

I benefit from WP. Do I do it on purpose? No.

But, you pose a good question: what can white people do about it? As you know from reading DU, attempts to discuss WP make very little headway with people who are determined to deny it exists.

[yardwork]

2. I can understand the defensiveness. We still have to confront it.

[Matrosov]

9. Perhaps because of the name

'White privilege' implies that white people have special rights, when in fact not being discriminated against based on the color of your skin should be considered a universal human right.

What people of color have to endure is not a lack of 'privilege' but a violation of their human rights.

Many whites are complete unaware of those violations, precisely because they never have to endure them. Some then get defensive when they hear the term 'white privilege' because they feel they are being accused of 'having it too good.'

[yardwork]

10. Very good points.

Interesting to think about how rephrasing this might help....

In some ways, the very phrase "white privilege" reflects white privilege, in that the phrase makes the issue all about whites, when in fact it is people of color who are being wronged.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

87. +1 nt

[Iggo]

4. Welcome to DU.

[Orrex]

5. In my case, accepting that it exists was difficult until I really understood it

Like (I suspect) many others, I thought that the "privilege" was akin to a handout or a boost to shield me from misfortune or hardship, when in fact I'd gone through a fair bit of it. What I didn't realize (or accept) is that, yes, I'd gone through some rough patches, but the experience was absolutely made no worse because I'm white, whereas others in similar situations would almost certainly have had it worse simply because of the color of their skin and the baseline prejudices of society as a whole.

Once I had my eyes opened to the reality of it, it was easy to see it everywhere.

One particularly mundane experience really proved the point for me: I live in western PA, in a fairly conservative area with very clear ideas about race. I ran out of gas in broad daylight about 12 miles from home, so I pulled to the side of the highway and set out on foot.

I'm not huge, but I'm not small, and I was wearing a heavy winter jacket so I looked much bigger. Regardless, before I'd walked the length of my car, someone pulled over and offered me a ride, which I happily accepted. He dropped me off at the gas station about 2 miles away.

I bought a can of gas, and before I'd made it out of the parking lot another driver offered me a lift back to my car, which I again accepted. I emptied the can into my tank and was on my way.

On the way home, I couldn't help wondering if I'd have found transportation so easily if I'd been black, or if I'd have been as willing to accept it if I were a small woman instead of a large(ish) man.

This certainly wasn't the first time I'd benefited from (or recognized) the privilege, but I don't often run into such in-your-face examples of it, either.

[hill2016]

14. there are lots of minority drivers around

if you had been black, wouldn't black (or minority) drivers been willing to give you a ride?

[Orrex]

15. You'd have to ask them.

I have to suppose that I wouldn't have been picked up as quickly, for one thing. Also, based on the demographics of the customer base in that particular gas station, there certainly weren't "lots of minority drivers around" at the time.


But thanks for the suggestion.

[yardwork]

64. Thank you for that post. Yes, that's it, I think.

Like (I suspect) many others, I thought that the "privilege" was akin to a handout or a boost to shield me from misfortune or hardship, when in fact I'd gone through a fair bit of it. What I didn't realize (or accept) is that, yes, I'd gone through some rough patches, but the experience was absolutely made no worse because I'm white, whereas others in similar situations would almost certainly have had it worse simply because of the color of their skin and the baseline prejudices of society as a whole.


When people are hurting, it's difficult to imagine that we are "privileged" in any way, and it seems unfair to suggest that we're unfairly benefiting from some vague system.

[Shandris]

6. Nah, not into Kafkatrapping.

But I do try to make certain I'm always treating people as equally as possible given all known variables. If some want to consider that as 'checking privilege', well, that's fine by me.

If it's not, oh well.

[MrScorpio]

54. You're the first person to mention this on DU

I know, because I googled the entire site just yesterday, looking for it.

Congratulations.

One thing about that phrase though, is that it invariably turns up in white supremacist circles on the Internet.

It's not something that's positively referenced by people who are intent on abolishing white supremacy in our society.

[Shandris]

56. Your final sentence is interesting.

You try to claim this statement as an authoritative fact, when in fact it is not. In fact, provided one even BELIEVES in the (illusory) quest to 'abolish white supremacy' (LOL -- as if anything can be 'abolished'), one can still fight against what one sees as foolish racism without subscribing to this idiotic, divisive ideology of "If you think you don't have it, it proves you do!"

It makes no difference to me if Benito Mussolini used the phrase (just as a random example of 'bad person'), if it's true I'll use it too. Words have no 'wing'.

[MrScorpio]

58. The Freepers themselves have been discussing it for almost a decade...

They love the idea, by the way, it's very popular with them, as it is with many other people who label anti-racists and pro-feminists as "SJWs."

It's part of the rhetoric of privileged behavior.

It's a handy rhetorical exercise for people who retain certain biases to defend those biases whenever they're called out on them.

By the way, one primary motivation for people who are called out on their own white supremacist biases is that they feel it necessary to dispute that such beliefs are defining them as "bad" or "immoral" people. If a person says racist things, that automatically makes them bad in the eyes of others. Well, that can't be allowed, can it?

Abolishing racism, or any other kind of prejudiced behavior will always be a work in progress. But that shouldn't mean that it shouldn't be strived for. Consider it a sociological Moonshot.

[Shandris]

59. "See, since they deny it, its part of their privilege."

Every attempt at elucidation proves it right. "If you don't admit it, it's evidence you have it." Again, no one intelligent is buying this argument, and especially no one who is both intellectually and emotionally intelligent.

You can continue to insinuate what you wish -- I neither know nor care if you or anyone else considers me 'racist'. The appellation of 'ist' to me means as much as telling me you bought a Starbuck's coffee -- nothing.

And until this disease of an ideology is long dead and buried, I will be here to remind people that it only serves to HURT them, not to help LITERALLY ANYONE but people making money off the controversy. Your 'social crusade' is a commercialized brand and, like all brands, is just an illusion to provide cover to people who think they can gain 'control' (lol).

Edited to add: Also, one thing. I'm not 'denying' anything. To deny something, it must first exist. One does not 'deny' the Q'rlothian Invader Species from the planet Rigel 4 because they do not exist.

[MrScorpio]

61. Hey, I wasn't the first and only person...

To insert a phrase that's only prevalent in anti-feminist/pro-white supremacist circles in a conversation on this website.

When faced with that very information, you had either one of two likely responses left for you: You could have either recognized the unfavorable implications behind affirmatively using it, or you could have demonstrated for us all how it works.

I wasn't the one who made your choice... I've simply pointed out how the phrase is used and who uses it.

[Shandris]

62. Good job. "Shandris uses words that someone I don't like uses, even though it's totally accurate!"

I'm sure everyone who hates me is enlightened by your 'discovery' (lol), and everyone who doesn't is already aware that what you've said is only a longer repeat of what you said before, which was similarly summarily dismissed.

Now, before you go getting all smart about having 'caught' (lol) """the first and only person to insert a phrase blahblahblah (PS: It's actually just the name of an article)""", you might bear in mind it's well-known I observe RWers on 4 and 8chan as a matter of course to keep up with their messaging, and that I've been here in one of two forms for well over 12 years (13 I think, but I lost count somewhere). You're not the first to try to suggest I'm some plant, and you won't be the last. Again...it means nothing to me. But I thought you might want to know so you can tone down the attempt at 'outing' me (lol) because it's rather unseemly. I'm very unorthodox for a Dem, but my loyalties are very clear whether you wish to acknowledge the possibility that a horrible person like me can somehow not buy into one topic and still be against racism.

And with that, I am finished with this topic. Perhaps we can speak again on a later one. Alternately, call Skinner or the Jury and I'll follow whatever they say.

[MrScorpio]

63. The reason why I know how that phrase works is because I too deal with my own share...

Last edited Mon May 23, 2016, 07:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Of right wing, anti-feminists and white supremacists. I've recognized it as part of their own coding language. I've even considered writing a post on it, as a demonstration of what to look for whenever one debates wingers. But, I decided against that because I didn't want to be the first person and only to inflict that kind of right wing phraseology on this website.

Rather than adopting their methods, I think that we all owe ourselves the benefit of knowing how they operate and working against them whenever those methods are employed against us.

[yardwork]

67. This seems like quite an overreaction to Mr. Scorpio's posts.

I've read your exchange a couple of times now and I'm just not seeing in his posts what you're saying he's saying.

Meanwhile, your reference to Kafka is still puzzling to me. Please illuminate us on the meaning of this phrase and what it has to do with Kafka and/or his writings. I'm somewhat familiar with his work so I'm interested.

[Shandris]

70. No thanks, I know this technique.

It's not a bad one, if a bit Reddit-heavy, but I've simply no desire to play with it. Have a nice day.

[yardwork]

65. Never heard that phrase before. Have you read anything by Kafka?

I don't understand the reference. Which book by Kafka does this reference?

[MrScorpio]

76. You won't find it in any of his books...

But you will find it in any number of websites and essays of the right wing persuasion, whenever they're trying to defensively excuse and justify their own anti-feminist and pro-white supremacist beliefs, behavior and language.

[yardwork]

78. And the user refuses to explain it here. Pffft.

I looked it up and I see it's a reference to his book The Trial. Oh the drama. Comparing a message board with Soviet-style authoritarianism and murder.

[MrScorpio]

80. Wingers have used him to create their own Catch 22

Somehow, were he alive today, I think that The Author himself would be mildly amused at that irony.

[yardwork]

82. I was thinking the same thing! They're illustrating a number of his own points.....

[UMTerp01]

7. I recognize my privilege as a fair skinned Black/Latino Man

The defensiveness of White privilege from many Whites has always been something that I inherently understand, but still find frustrating. We have many issues of colorism in the Black and Latino community. Lighter skinned Blacks and Latinos are often considered more intelligent, more attractive, less threatening. I recognize that I benefit from that privilege as a fair skinned Black/Latino man. I haven't really had problems with overt racism and I know I've benefited from it personally and professionally. I don't get followed in stores. I don't have people cross the other side of the street when they see me walking or women clutching their purse in an elevator when I walk in. I have facial features that fit in to western ideals of beauty (thinner nose, fine grade of hair) i.e. not too "ethnic" in the eyes of many who have those stereotypes and colorism issues.

So I get it that when you are coming from a perspective of the rules being made in your favor that you may feel as though someone saying white privilege is an attack on Whiteness. Its not. Its just the way it is. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that and I appreciate the many White people who do acknowledge it. But its like damn. If I can acknowledge the privilege I have as a non White person then why can't you acknowledge yours as a White person? Privilege comes in many forms, but there is a value in being White that just cannot be denied.

[yardwork]

69. Thank you for this post. I think that fear is at the base of a lot of racism.

Some people see life as a zero sum game. "If you have more, then I have less." The character trait is not associated with actual economic status. Donald Trump seems to feel this way, as does Mitt Romney. Some people tend to think this way, while others do not. I suspect that there is a very strong overlap among people who see the world as a zero sum game and people who are racists (and other types of bigots).

[apnu]

8. We can be allies.

We white people currently own the greater American culture. Thus we are the gate keepers, and to change this issue peacefully, we must open the door from our side of things.

So for my part as a white man, I had to spend some time thinking about privilege is and getting past it in my mind. I had to overcome not just the privilege I get simply by existing, but also the guilt that goes along with it. Once I figured out I've got nothing to be guilty for, I was able to move on from it and become an ally.

So where I see privilege being exercised I call it out. We instinctually suspect an outsider and distrust what they say. Its a thing all human beings do. Thus, there is an additional weight when one on the inside, like me, calls it out. Whites need to speak up to the injustice of white privilege, the more we do, the better things will be for everybody.

[yardwork]

71. I agree! Whites have to speak up, often and loudly. We can use our position of privilege for good.

I feel that the zen concept of "radical acceptance" can be helpful for people who are struggling with defensiveness. As you say, it costs us nothing as white people to acknowledge that our whiteness brings us privileges. It will be true whether or not we acknowledge it. BUT if we radically accept it and then start to talk about it, amazing things could happen.

[apnu]

89. Yes!

[The2ndWheel]

11. Our survival as a species is too abstract a concept for anything

Every individual person is trying to get through their own day. There are 7+ billion people. Most won't die tomorrow, and there will still be more of us tomorrow than there are today. Our survival as a species motivates exactly 0 people to do anything. You might know a very small fraction of the people on the planet. In terms of day to day existence, most people aren't on anyone's radar, and so might as well not even exist anyway.

In terms of loans or job interviews, automate it the process or something. Where the name or sex isn't even recognized. In fact, get humans out of the loop altogether. With their opinions, beliefs, biases, need for food, need for sleep, etc. We're all really just a burden to the machine.

As a white person, I guess you could turn down any jobs that you get, figuring that you got it over someone else because you're white. But again, we get back to the day to day thing. Which also gets us back to the leaving humans in charge of anything thing. We're not going to get things all exactly equal, because we're all prisoners of history. We'll keep trying though, because we have that idea of fairness. Even though it exists nowhere but within the human imagination.

If you have it, why can't I have it? If they have it, why can't we have it? Which is then part of the way that we have all of the environmental issues that we do, which goes back to your survival as a species sentence. It's a whole complicated circle.

[yardwork]

73. I like the way that you are looking at potential practical interventions.

I come back to the idea that racism (and other forms of bigotry) are manifestations of human greed. Your last paragraph seems to be saying that too.

[TipTok]

12. I can only control my own actions...

I choose not to act in a racist manner and to treat everyone equally until they show that they merit otherwise.

Nothing more to be done.

[yardwork]

74. The Golden Rule. There's a lot to be said for it.

The buck stops with us. Individual responsibility. Not going around pointing at other people's behavior, but taking responsibility for our own.

But I think that we can in fact do more. Another poster here suggested calling out bigotry when we see it.

I believe that voting for Democrats is a moral imperative. I'm serious. I've watched the Republicans for 50 years. They are deeply invested in perpetuating racist structures.

[athena]

95. A lack of empathy is not an admirable thing.

Saying that you can't control other people's actions is like saying you can't be bothered to have empathy, that empathy makes no difference.

I beg to differ. If more white people had empathy, the world would be a much less racist place. It's too easy to just say, "It's not my fault; I wash my hands of the whole thing."

If I were you, I would not be bragging about my lack of empathy. It's kind of disturbing that you seem to be so proud of it.

[TipTok]

97. Are you suggesting that I can control other people's actions...?

In any case...

Empathy...

[yardwork]

13. Thank you for your posts.

I look forward to answering each one individually.

This is why I love DU.

[Nye Bevan]

16. Only an idiot would deny that racism exists.

And that white people are less likely to experience racist behavior. For example, it is undeniable that because some cops behave in a racist manner, white people are more likely to be treated professionally and courteously when pulled over by the police. I think it is more productive to talk about how racism exists, and how to address it, than to couch the issue in terms of "white privilege". Being treated courteously by the police should not be thought of as a "privilege" but should be standard operating procedure, and the problem is not so much that white people are treated too well by the police but that nonwhite people are treated too badly.

[kwassa]

25. Only an idiot would deny white privilege exists.

Those that object to it fail to understand it, or, as is often the case, refuse to understand it. Which is part of white privilege, of course.

I know that you hate the term, but the concept is simple, and very useful. We whites are the default culture, and due to our history all other cultures are less than us, in our white estimation. Certain cultural practices are institutionalized because of it. Minorities in the identical situation as a white person have disadvantages the whites do not have. That gives any white a privilege.

[Nye Bevan]

27. I think the reason that President Obama has never used the phrase "white privilege"

in any of his speeches is that he is more interested in addressing and helping end racism than deliberately stirring up animosity by using a phrase that he knows many will object to.

I'm going to miss him.

[kwassa]

40. President Obama is not the arbiter of racial issues in the United States.

He is not running cover for your denial of white privilege, either. He is a politician.

You are again projecting your personal bias on to President Obama, and are imagining his reasons for not talking about white privilege. This is a logical fallacy, of course, on your part, aside from pure speculation.

[Nye Bevan]

44. I find his speeches on racism to be pitch-perfect.

Of course, you are free to believe that he's got it all wrong.

[kwassa]

50. But you haven't the faintest idea of how he feels about white privilege.

You felt free to make that up.

[yardwork]

75. I think you're right.

[yardwork]

77. I think you're both right.

As I read Nye's comments in this thread, he's not denying the problem, he's suggesting that the words we use to describe the problem matter in terms of people's acceptance. I agree with that.

At the same time, I agree with you that the phrase "white privilege" carries a very real and very important meaning, and it's wrong to pretend otherwise. We won't get rid of unfair privileges if we go around pretending that the privileges don't exist.

I think that Nye's approach is more that of a politician, and yours is more that of a philosopher. Both approaches are important.

(I'm not saying that "the truth is somewhere in the middle." I hate that phrase. Most of the time the truth is NOT somewhere in the middle. Most of the time one side (or both) are simply wrong. In this case, I think that you are both correct, though.)

[forjusticethunders]

17. As a very dark skinned black male I mostly feel white privilege (though I don't like the term much)

in social scenarios. I'm often perceived as scary, threatening, etc etc, even though I'm nice and sociable and in my younger years, I was incredibly socially awkward and really couldn't hurt a fly. People have instinctive associations (often due to media and cultural biases and messages) of "black male" with "dangerous" even if they don't mean to.

With that said, I disagree with the framing that makes "being treated with respect" a "privilege that white people have" as opposed to a right that non-white people don't. It implies the solution is to start treating white men the same way we treat black men.

Also this isn't getting into interactions with the police/state but I can say this: I was living in a shared group home when the fucking SWAT team bursted in to serve a warrant against a former resident. I really did think I was going to die that night, especially when the cop jammed his automatic weapon against my back. It just makes me wonder why the hell did they feel the need to do that *other* than the fact that this was a heavily black area.

[Nye Bevan]

18. +1.

It's not the greatest term for discussing the problem of racism. Which probably explains why Barack Obama has not even used the phrase once in any of his speeches during his presidency.

[forjusticethunders]

20. Though to clarify I think "white privilege" is a good term for one SPECIFIC aspect of racism

Aka, the fragility, entitlement, and rage that some white people show when we discuss racial issues or suggest that some white people (particularly white men) have unresolved or subconscious racial hangups or that they act in a racially insensitive manner. Hell, even suggesting that white racism is even still a problem or it wasn't solved in the 60s is enough to send a lot of white dudes into a spitting rage.

[Nye Bevan]

23. "Denial of racism" is probably a better term for that (nt)

[kwassa]

26. White privilege works just fine.

[Nye Bevan]

29. I'm not sure how someone needs to be "privileged" to petulantly deny an obvious truth,

but you do whatever you need to do. I understand that the word "racism" makes some uncomfortable and that they prefer to use the word "privilege".

[kwassa]

33. You've been doing your darndest to deny white privilege for years on DU.

It is part of your frequent pattern in minimizing racial issues.

Privilege and racism are not the same concept.

[Nye Bevan]

45. Oh no, you must have seen my racism-minimizing posts like this one from last year:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=752071

Damn.

[kwassa]

49. You only see blatant racism, and deny that other types exist.

That is what I mean by minimization.

[FLPanhandle]

19. Privilege is a loaded word

Tell any poor white person who is struggling to pay rent and feed their children that they are "privileged" and they will not only deny it, but will laugh in your face.

Turn it around and they will agree there is racism, but use the word privilege, and you might as well talk to a wall.

I think some GOP strategist coined the phrase "White Privilege" to deepen racial division.

[Nye Bevan]

22. Yep. Telling a white person who is struggling to pay rent and medical bills

that we need to address "white privilege" is probably not going to result in a productive conversation. Much better to have the discussion in terms of how to address and end racism. As I mentioned, Barack Obama never uses the phrase "white privilege", because he is more interested in seriously addressing racism than in deliberately pissing people off.

[kwassa]

32. Your argument holds no water. It never has held water.

You make the assumption that this white person struggling to pay rent and medical bills can't understand the concept: that his struggle would be worse if he was also black. Why do make such an assumption?

White privilege refers to the idea that in a identical situation where two individuals, one a white, and one a minority, face the same circumstances, the white has an advantage.

Just because you CHOOSE to misconstrue this concept, doesn't make your choice true.

By the way, President Obama is not the arbiter of proper racial discussion.

[Nye Bevan]

34. I can see that you don't like to use the word "racism",

you prefer "privilege". "Racism" is indeed an ugly word but at some point we should attempt to move beyond euphemisms.

[kwassa]

37. Racism and privilege are different concepts.

You choose not to understand the difference. That is on you.

[Nye Bevan]

41. If no cop was racist, there would be no such thing as "driving while white" privilege.

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's way more complicated than that. Way more. However, I readily admit that I am not the smartest DUer and sometimes this complicated stuff is simply too deep for me to understand.

[kwassa]

51. If it is too deep for you to understand ....

then maybe you should stop talking about it so much. And so often.

[arely staircase]

88. Alternatively: it's too deep for you to explain.

Opening the possibility you don't understand it and maybe should stop talking about it.

Just throwing that out there.

Anything is possible.

[kwassa]

90. But it isn't too deep for me to explain.

It is quite an easy concept to understand, if one's mind is open.

[Scootaloo]

85. Well, that's part of the point

The people who most often bring up white privilege tend to not actually be too concerned with the concept. For them it's just a form of trolling - online and offline. Their goal is to get people to "admit it" - in which case the troller gets to act all smug and superior... Or get them to deny it, in which case they are clearly deluded awful racists, and then the troll still gets to feel smug and superior.

It's a valid rhetorical construct based on statistical figures. That is, on average a given white person in a situation will have a generally better outcome / experience than a nonwhite person in an identical situation. It's useful for examining social trends that lead to that outcome. It is not, however, always individually applicable. Nor is it really useful as a topic of discussion, for the reason outlined above .

Several years ago, a scientific study found out that a low-carbohydrate diet could beneficially impact the health of people suffering from or likely to suffer from heart disease by a moderate amount. The studies were valid, they were based on actual nutritional science, all that. Aaaand then people grabbed those results and turned it into an anti-cab crusade fad diet for everyone, the "atkins Diet". The results of the study were grounded and scientifically factual, but the public response to it was hysterical nonsense, just a lot of meaningless fluff with the thinnest, most scant veneer of "Based on true science" it could manage.

This discussion is sort of the same way. "White Privilege" is a valid concept, and is useful for the studies and examinations it's part of. But there's this weird sort of self-indulgent thing in the popular application of it. Like penitent monks hitting themselves in the face with boards.

[Mike__M]

21. One thing privilege can mean

is believing the agreeable results of a poll of POC that was designed and conducted by whites. Especially when those results negate any incipient admission of the problem.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141456359

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027842626

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/im-dropping-my-protest-of-washingtons-football-team-name/2016/05/19/b09e8e7e-1cfe-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11911266

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

24. You think it's just white people?

Pull the other one. I'm laughing here.

As a second generation Chinese American I have had people -- white AND black -- assume I can't speak English. I've had a black guy mock my mother's heavily accented speech (this was on a ski lift or I would have decked him). I've had a black Baptist preacher refer to "your people" when trying to talk to me about East Asian issues.

I've been asked "how long have I lived in America" by whites and blacks, because of my "perfect" English. For some reason being told I speak English well is supposed to be a fucking compliment. I have been threatened and attacked and taken advantage of by blacks and whites who assume I am a recent immigrant and insult me with impunity.

As Chris Rock showed at the Oscars, it's acceptable to mock Asians in ways that would get mockery of any other race crucified. We're a "safe" group to insult by blacks and whites.

"White privilege." Give me a fucking break. More like nativist privilege.

[philosslayer]

38. Thank you for a very thoughtful post

Interesting how its being passed right by (so far)

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

53. Thanks

I'm very frustrated that the issue of racism in this country is restricted to a largely (and literally) black and white issue. And I know I'm not alone, having heard similar sentiments from my Latino colleagues. Some of us at very tired of being left out of this dialogue.

I've had a black activist tell me civil rights issues among Asians isn't important because there's "fewer of you than us." And a white woman I know victim blamed Asians for being "too polite" to stand up against racism. And dont even get me started on the Asian "jokes." Would have a movie like "The Interview" had been made if it were about black people?

My 4 year old nephew is biracial, and he's the future of this country. More and more people who don't fit neatly into black and white checkboxes are being born every day. And the narrowness in which racism is discussed is a great concern to me.

[philosslayer]

55. I can certainly understand your frustration

Many people have an agenda, and racism against Asian-Americans in particular doesn't fit within their particular narrative. Therefore, they choose to ignore it. Because, after all, Asians seem to be doing quite well, right? So that means everything must be okay. Watch this thread for instance. We'll see if anyone chimes in

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. This is but one reason I no longer talk about this issue

on DU anymore

Some folks for some reason have reduced all race issues to black and white.

[yardwork]

84. My wife, who is Latina (and gay, and female) has had very similar experiences.

I'm not sure why you think that this negates the problem.

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

86. ?

I'm not sure where I said or implied this problem is negated? Could you point that out for me, because I believe I made it explicit that racism and privilege is not solely a black and white issue.

BTW, I'm not only Asian, but also a gay transman. Nice to meet you.

[yardwork]

91. Hi!

Sorry that I misunderstood.

[Skittles]

94. careful

around here, it is only acceptable to point out white racism

[libodem]

28. White Privilege

Is declaring, 'Affirmative Action', obsolete because this is a post racial world.

[MrScorpio]

30. I believe that I can help...

I can gather a series of lectures and essays that can educate the willing on this subject.

It won't be easy to convince the unwilling, however, as one important aspect about white privilege is that it allows some of its beneficiaries the belief that they're entitled to deny that it evens exists.

[Nye Bevan]

31. How about a cute cartoon where a chirpy twentysomething white girl

assuages her vague feelings of guilt by giving an earnest but slightly too long lecture about "white privilege"? Because if anything would genuinely help banish racism from our country, that would.

[kwassa]

35. How about you actually read up on it and understand it ....

than continue in your denial of it's existence?

[MrScorpio]

36. Actually I'm referring to essays and lectures by academics and activists

Many of them who are white, who have dedicated their careers to the field of white studies.

If a person did not want to check them out, I'm quite sure that they would be comfortable sticking with their own lack of self-awareness.

[Nye Bevan]

39. Ah, academics who are dedicating their lives to the study of white privilege.

It's always interesting to ponder these people's incentives, given that their next paycheck depends upon the existence of racial animosity. I'm pretty sure these folk were the first to come up with the ridiculous "colorblindness is EVIL" meme. And of course they have no shortage of eager twentysomething grad students to propagate this stuff on social media for them.

[MrScorpio]

42. Cursing the messenger without even seeing the message...

When it comes to dealing with endemic white fragility, that's one of the more prevalent responses from some beneficiaries of white privilege.

That behavior is referenced as well.

[Nye Bevan]

43. Hey, everyone has to earn a living. (nt)

[MrScorpio]

46. Helping the beneficiaries of white privilege in their becoming more self-aware...

Is one of the most crucially needed endeavors in our white supremacist society.

[Nye Bevan]

47. Yes. Go white privilege profs and chirpy cartoons.

You've convinced me.

[MrScorpio]

52. You're an adult... And

You're entitled to your own rationality.

However, it's not like the rationale behind your responses are at all inexplicable.

The information that explains these things are all readily available to anyone who wants them. One thing I would suggest for anyone who's willing, is that they take a racial implicit bias test. But only if they're not afraid of their own answers.

The results of such a test can easily demonstrate why some beneficiaries of white privilege respond in such a fragile way whenever they're confronted by race matter conversations.

[kwassa]

48. So, you know better than scholars that closely study the subject?

Fascinating.

Where did you acquire such expertise in racial studies in your white experience?

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. First it is real

second, due to people like you, I really do not bother with this on DU, but if you took the racial bias test, I am betting this is going to reveal actual bias on your part. No, I am not bothering with the link either.

[yardwork]

81. Actually, I think you're missing the mark here.

I defended your points up thread, but you're losing me here. I know a lot of academics - family and otherwise - and their paychecks don't depend at all on "the existence of racial animosity." It's just not how it works.

Rather than paint all academics with such a broad brush, why not just refute the arguments with which you disagree? There are plenty of silly arguments out there - posed by academics and non-academics alike.

[yardwork]

79. Please do! I think that people here on DU are interested in discussing this issue.

[MrScorpio]

83. Should I start an OP with all the references?

I've been posting on this very subject in the AA forum for the past few months I can consolidate them and post them either in this thread or another.

[yardwork]

92. Go for it!

[MrScorpio]

93. Cool, here we go!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027851965

[Squinch]

57. Let's especially discuss it because there are people posting here who stalk other posters on their

home email addresses and threaten them in an effort to stop them talking about white privilege.

It exists, it is destructive to all of us and we all need to be aware of it.

And talk about it.

Till there is nothing left to say about it.

[scuciti]

60. The Color is Green

Of course discrimination exists and we should acknowledge that. Can we also acknowledge that for every example of suffering from racial discrimination, there are 100 examples of economic disadvantage and misery because in this country, if you don't have money you don't have privilege.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. I do, but not on DU anymore

[athena]

96. As a white woman, I feel I can trust the police.

I am painfully aware that if my skin were black, things would be completely different in this regard.

If I were a black man, I would probably be stopped regularly by the police and asked whether I really live in this neighborhood. I would not feel comfortable going out for a run without my ID. I would be made to feel that I didn't belong here.