Does anyone else find the Hillary hate disturbing?

[SDANation]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by tammywammy (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I have not posted in a long while. 2012 I think? But what I have seen recently in regards to Hillary hate, from the left, is kinda scary. I expect to see the hate and vitriol coming from the right as the republican machine has been crushing Hillary for 25+ years. But I guess the lies have been repeated so much that they have now leaked into the mainstream. I mean just reading some of the Sanders supporters groups on Facebook, I would think I was looking Breitbart. It's sad to me because instead of looking at record, Hillary has voted 80% of the time with sanders, but she is not seen as a "liberal" by them because of the lies told about her. I'm okay if you disagree with her on policy but to repeat the same republican talking points as truth is just crazy to me.

Shaun King? He is a liberal activist but leading a charge to crush Hillary's credibility because his candidate lost. Why? Is this all based in misogyny? Or is social media allowing everyone to have their own personal echo chamber of lies?

And now a large number of Sanders supporters are attacking Elizabeth Warren because she backed the nominee? They are saying Obama and her both sold out? Really just because they back Hillary, 2 of the most prominent liberals are vilified and attacked? Is this millennial privilege? Just because you lost doesn't mean there is a grand conspiracy. This article explains that: http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/5/23/1529938/-11-reasons-why-Bernie-Sanders-lost-this-thing-fair-and-square

If you are still a sanders supporter on the fence I implore you to really research the facts outside of the echo chamber and come to grips that much more matters than just the president this time. Securing Obamas legacy and ensuring the SCOTUS does not take an extreme hard right slant and undue decades of liberal progress. Just my humble opinion.

[SCantiGOP]

1. Don't wait another 4 years to post

Good and accurate analysis.

[SDANation]

2. I won't!

Can't take the BS anymore!

[Skink]

3. Hillary cast her votes during the Bush years.

But yeah it is a bit contenous right now.

[Wilms]

4. What "lies" are you talking about?

I'm sure some lies are told. But there are ugly truths that leave me with extreme distaste. And you wanna call that "hate"? If that's what helps you sleep at night, go for it.

[SDANation]

7. Specifics?

Ok. Give me specifics?

[Wilms]

10. You just accused Sander's supporters of being liars.

You have a link?

Here's one for you. The list goes on. But here we have HRC...in her own words.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511987081

[SDANation]

19. Here!

I said not all. http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/5/23/1529938/-11-reasons-why-Bernie-Sanders-lost-this-thing-fair-and-square

[Wilms]

23. Care to stay on topic?

Painful. I know.

[SDANation]

27. You asked...

I responded. Care to refute it?

[Wilms]

37. Am I missing where there is evidense of this "hate" you are refering to?

Give me a snip.

[AgadorSparticus]

70. Seriously? It was all of GDP for the past couple of months. Nonstop.

[Wilms]

72. I think there are more than a few definitions of "hate".

So you'd have to point it out. And we may disagree. When I've posted about HRC and Kissinger, for instance, you might call that "hate".

[SDANation]

26. You know..

The great part of being a human is you can change. I'm not going to answer every charge in the video. I've already done it with othe friends who post it as gospel.

This may upset you and your preconceived notions... http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/fact-checkers-confirm-hillary-clinton-is-more-honest-than-any-of-her-2016-opponents/24196/

[Wilms]

33. You're going to do better than dailynewsbin.

Right?

[SDANation]

40. Okay...

Here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/28/hillary-clinton-honest-transparency-jill-abramson

Here: http://www.forwardprogressives.com/like-it-or-not-hillary-clinton-is-being-more-honest-to-voters-than-bernie-sanders/

Should I find more?

[Wilms]

51. I see the difference.

Do you? Did Sanders get a few facts wrong? I'll bet. Like the time he was supposedly under sniper-fire.



Why do you think she went to the trouble of setting up a server. When the RNC was hosting Rove's email, were you OK with that?

Oh, and where is the "hate"??

[redstateblues]

15. The oft repeated "Hillary is a Republican" is one that

Was until recently, repeated every day on this site. The absurdity is that she was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress. Another good one is "there's no difference between Hillary and Trump"

[Wilms]

35. Someone thinks she stole the election.

That's "hate"??

[redstateblues]

54. It's a lie

[Wilms]

55. And...

So a post like that suggests "all the lies" fainting couch episodes from HRC supporters?

Sanders supporters can post factual articles and be treated as if they've made something up. For me to do that, I'd have to, uhm, lie.

[redstateblues]

63. Stating that Hillary stole the election is a lie. It's not a "factual article"

H A Goodman articles are not "factual"

[Wilms]

65. I've never read him.

And I find Sanders preferable to HRC.

[mercuryblues]

25. Yeah, no hate here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511942936

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280156616#post16

[Gomez163]

5. With Shaun King you can't really be sure he wrote it.

[liberal N proud]

6. It is horrible how people hate her, but they can't tell you why.

[SDANation]

9. Agree!

That's what I can't stand the most! You ask them and they give you the same right wing talking points.

[katmondoo]

8. Yes, I do

We have so many smart, Democrats supporting our candidate. I don't understand why so many are unhappy with this. There has never been, in my memory so many strong , articulate charismatic Democrats wiling to fight for the presidency of a candidate as the one we have now. People should be ecstatic even though critical at times. There is no such thing as a perfect candidate.

[SDANation]

16. Exactly!

Unfortunately, the money will never be removed from our political system unless the whole thing is torn down and rebuilt. No candidate is perfect! You're right! Had I wished Hillary hadn't voted for Iraq. Absolutely yes! But the pressure a senator must feel from her constituency must be intense, especially in NY.

[Celebrandil]

11. Yes, things have changed and not to the better

I've come here from time to time to get an idea of what grassroots democrats are thinking. As a European I wanted to get a more representative picture with more depth than what can be portrayed in regular media. This time around, however, I have been surprised by the hatred you see from all sides. Democrats used to be quite civil to each others. It is sickening seeing people dropping material from sources like Fox News and use it as an assault from the left. The world is indeed up-side-down.

[Tree-Hugger]

12. Yes

I am a die hard Sanders supporter and I am astonished by some of the things I have read by fellow Sanders supporters. They sound a lot like Trump fans.

[SDANation]

13. Nice!

[qdouble]

14. I think you have 4 main groups of Hillary haters

1)Right wingers and right wing trolls who pretend to be pro-Bernie
2) Hero worshipers/fanatics who view Bernie as some sort of messiah like figure and see anyone who opposes him as being evil
3)Normal far left democrats and green party members
4) People who were never that politically involved in the first place, who only like one candidate and will go back to not caring about politics now Bernie has lost

[SDANation]

17. Haha!

Very true!

[Scurrilous]

22. ...

[DesertRat]

41. Agreed. nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. I don't consider Hillary to be a hater.

Some of her supporters are kind of nasty, though.

[athena]

20. Thank you for this excellent post.

I agree with everything you said.

Here is an article that beautifully explains who Hillary is and why she has taken the positions she has taken:
http://www.thenation.com/article/can-hillary-clinton-win-over-the-left/?nc=1

When I posted it earlier, a Bernie supporter who clearly did not read past the title quibbled over how the title itself indicated that Hillary is not part of the Left. In fact, the title is not a good description of the content of the article. Hopefully, some Bernie supporters will actually have the courage to read it.

[Rex]

21. We haven't seen it yet, we thought it was bad when we elected a black man.

I fear for her safety, the worst of the worst will come out and go after her. Rush-Stormfront types that hate women at a level that is beyond vile.

A certain type of male is going to go crazy over her being elected, they are the people that love Trump even though he admits he stands for nothing and has no policies. He picks on women, that is all they care about.

[SDANation]

30. Exactly!!!

I really feel like most of it is based in misogyny.

[Rex]

38. 99% of it is imo.

I have feared for the life of Obama these past 8 years, but I fear for HRC on an entirely different level. Obama stepped into office and instantly established himself as the alpha male. HRC will drive the men in power crazy, just by being a female. No other qualifications needed.

And when she becomes the alpha female! Oh boy! Republican heads will be exploding all over the nation! The trolls at 4chan will be rioting in the cyber streets and warming up their war dialers.

[deafskeptic]

48. I also fear for her safety and she's not even my no 1 choice. Still. I wish her well. n/t

[NBachers]

58. As I read your post, I had a dark foreshadowing of Christina Grimmie's death

as a cautionary note about Hillary Clinton. Men like this are out there.

We are lucky that Obama's life has been protected as long as it has. We must demand that Hillary Clinton's life be protected for the important work that lies ahead.

[Rex]

61. I was thinking about her and the Stanford rape victim.

Sent a chill down my spine. Also, how many years have we read about the unbelievable hatred from 4chan and gamersgate...they are out there and they are dangerous. They also will go apeshit with an alpha female in the WH.

I am very worried about her safety, I as a male, know my gender way too well.

[Hekate]

24. KnR

[SDANation]

32. Calm yourself...

There's no grand conspiracy... http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/5/23/1529938/-11-reasons-why-Bernie-Sanders-lost-this-thing-fair-and-square

[Rex]

56. People losing their minds and coming up CTs will be the norm.

I was going to say welcome to DU but I see you've been around here and just lurking, you should post more!

[Pathwalker]

34. Your username fits you very well.

n/t

[csziggy]

47. Especially since they only lasted for a single post!

Most disruptors manage at least a half dozen posts before they are converted to "Name Removed!"

[beastie boy]

53. The number of his posts is telling too.

I could alert, but the poster is so cartoonish in his vitriol, I would rather have everyone see it for themselves.

[dawg]

29. People have lost all sense of perspective due to the primaries.

I voted for Bernie, but Hillary is still a pretty-liberal candidate. She's no Jim Webb or Joe Lieberman.

She has the potential to be a great President. We just have to hold her feet to the fire. (Same as always.)

[Trajan]

31. No ...

Enough IS enough ...

[YOHABLO]

36. HATE IS A STRONG WORD.

[Skittles]

76. THE CORRECT ONE

[HassleCat]

39. Legitimate gripes vs. hate.

I can see why some people felt we needed a different candidate for president. Clinton has problems with her support of the Iraq war, favoring the death penalty, promotion of the TPP, etc. But we often get Democratic candidates who are not perfect, and Clinton is far better than some of the candidates we nominate for various congressional seats and governorships. Instead of harping on Clinton's inadequacies, we need to improve the progressive record of our party in general, so that candidates don't feel the need to run to the right to appeal to undecided voters. It's OK to blame Clinton for some of what pulled our party too far right, but not in the particular way that implies we should throw the election to Donald Trump to make the point.

[SDANation]

43. Agreed!

Like I was saying with hindsight being 20/20 had I wished she didn't vote for the Iraq war, absolutely! But the immense political pressure must have been to great. Especially in NY. She's a politician.

[Beartracks]

42. Asking if their anger and disappointment is rooted in misogyny or milllenial privilege...

... implies that that their support of Sanders was, from the start, based on such factors.

Not cool. Not uniting.

========================

[qdouble]

44. Being a Sanders supporter is not the same as being an unhinged Hillary hater.

I think you can call people with Hillary Derangement Syndrome out without it being an insult to run of the mill Sanders supporters.

[SDANation]

45. Sanders, Obama and other male politicians have

done the same things as she has yet she bears all the heat? If that doesn't speak misogyny I don't know what does. Most of his supporters are millennials and white. That's just fact and Statistics. His supporters demand that if they don't get their way it's "bust". Pretty much saying if we don't get our way we are going home. How is that not privilege? She won fair and square and they are still asking Sanders to turn the will of the voters over and hope the SD switch? How is that not privilege?

[retrowire]

52. I'm going to stop you here about the misogyny claim...

You said, "Sanders, Obama and other male politicians have done the same things as she has yet she bears all the heat?"

Aside from the fact you don't even mention what the "thing" is I want to open your eyes a bit...

Perhaps it's not that she's getting singled out because of her gender.

Perhaps it's because her opponent happens to be the first opponent in Presidential Election history to make his platform MAJORLY about reforming moneyed politics and corruption because of this?

And because of Bernie, people are actually focusing on that more critically for the first time. Bernie didn't exist before this, and thus, other politicians weren't targeted for it, because no one was thinking about it. Simple.

Not because she's a woman. It's because her opponent made it a major topic.

[SDANation]

62. Okay...

"Campaigning While Female also deprives Clinton of the ability to make lofty promises. Sanders, for example, has a $15 trillion non-starter of a health-care plan. If Clinton floated such a plan, the media would mock it as patently absurd. But Sanders gets a pass."

Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-sexist-double-standards-hurting-hillary-clinton/2016/02/12/fb551e38-d195-11e5-abc9-ea152f0b9561_story.html

[retrowire]

68. So you've posted an opinion piece.

Nice.

So the media wouldn't mock Bernie for his healthcare plan because he's a male?

http://fortune.com/2016/03/01/bernie-sanders-healthcare-jobs/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/price-tag-of-bernie-sanders-proposals-18-trillion-1442271511

Hmm.... Looks like he did get mocked for it.

[retrowire]

46. Well thanks for imploring me to search for facts outside the echo chamber!

You see, I've made several topics on DU, right here, outside of the Bernie group, IMPLORING intelligent discourse about Hillary from Hillary supporters.

I never really got any intelligent discourse. I got a lot of denial. I got rejected and was told to leave the party at times. I was called a misogynist (as you just implied in your op right here so... wtf) and I've been called a privileged white male (which, I am but that doesn't make me illegitimate all of a sudden.)

The thing is, you think you're reaching out to Sanders supporters with this post, and you might be, but there are literally THOUSANDS of us, who, over the course of this whole primary process, HAVE TRIED discussing our real issues with Hillary Clinton.

It just doesn't work. There was too much deflection and spin on Hillary's side to even try even when they were presented with links and sources and facts. They would change the subject to attacking Bernie or something like that.

I would make a topic ALL ABOUT DISCUSSING HILLARY and Bernie would be brought up because Hillary supporters just weren't having it.

So, I've given my effort. Thanks for imploring me though. I'm done.

[SDANation]

57. I wasn't trying to reach you..

because in my experience and just my experience there is no getting through to any of you. I said the ones on the fence. Not the true believers. We can discuss policy. But most of what I have seen on DU has been discussion and reposting of conjecture and blog post. A perfect example, the Email scandal and indictment. Fact is out there that most likely this won't happen but links to right wing sites and opinion is posited as evidence of a crime.

Like I said, you can argue about policy and her position as a democrat but what is not cool is to use the same talking points Rush Limbaugh uses. If you want to argue she isn't liberal enough for you, that's cool. But don't vilify her on one hand for a policy or action and then totally ignore that Bernie or Obama has done the same. Not saying you, but some supporters. Fact is she has been one of the greater liberal champions we have had and all of sudden, that's not good enough, when Bernie shows up.

[retrowire]

60. Mmm, I see what you're saying.

Personally for me, I never cared for Benghazi.
The Emails are second hand to me. They are spoken about amongst circles other than right wing sources. It is a real thing that threatens Hillary and endangers the vote of those who chose her.

For me, it's been the moneyed ties to Wall St. That's always been my main issue. That's all.

[SDANation]

64. Agreed!

I have strong reservations about money in politics as well but unfortunately that's just how our system works now. It's so deeply ingrained in the fabric of Washington we would have to tear down the whole thing just fix it.

[glowing]

49. If you lol at basically 45 and younger, which ended up supporting Bernie;

Especially the 30 and younger, you would probably understand why it seems so contentious. They literally have the Internet glued to their fingers. They can fact check her record, her statements, and lies. The fact that she receives so much corporate money is a good indication that she isn't going to do much to help "the people", but the corporations. Her stances regarding the ME is very "war friendly". (Guess who fights those wars?).

And I'm not so sure it has a lot to do with Hillary. She represents everything that is wrong with politics from the establishment today. She represents a "dynasty" type of development. She's amassed considerable wealth and power because of the Clinton Family. Her "hard choices" seem to be the wrong choices and have dire consequences for the brown indigenous populations in those countries we interfere in. And there isn't and industry or corporation that hasn't bought into her campaign or made a donation into the Foundation.

We need an absolute change in direction on the environment; pretend it's an attack like Pearl Harbor on every coastal city across the world. That's how we should be addressing every issue regarding the economy, infrastructure, and "direction" for the country. And the young people trying to participate in society are struggling so hard. College is such a burden. It's now the #1 debt for Americans, surpassing mortgage loans. Plus, since 2008, employers threw people off their payrolls, and have justified "globalization" to make the the replacement pay extremely low AND to make that job take more work time from ones life.

At the end of the day, each human being has a very little time on this planet. Shouldn't it be spent being productive, safe, and happy? Why does a billionaire need an extra billion over a child living in poverty starving in this country? Facing violence and famiky instability and crappy education? The fact that younger people want to embrace a more egalitarian society, socialize a bit more, use govt to help people, leave no one behind, and it's the older generation that will die off first saying, wait. The environment really has no time left to "wait".

Some may hate, but I'd say, more just don't want that to have to fight when we could have a Bernie in the White House listening to people... Finding ways to make the system work more fairly for all!

[pnwmom]

75. And people over 50 LIVED the history. They watched Hillary being denigrated

because she said she didn't go to the White House to bake cookies. They watched her go through the Travel office fake scandal, the Christmas card fake scandal, the non-murder of Vince Foster scandal, the Rose hill law office fake scandal, the pork bellies fake scandal, followed by Inspector Javert-ken Starr's Whitewater investigation which, after several years and $70 million, succeeded in proving only that Bill Clinton had blow jobs from a consenting adult (as she insists even today) who was a White House intern.

Too many of the millennials on the internet are swallowing the rightwing swill that has been poured out for thirty years. Bernie never brought it up because he knew it was crap. Too bad his supporters aren't all as smart as he is.

[jalan48]

50. I don't hate Hillary.

I just think she's a conservative, Wall Street Democrat. I prefer someone like Bernie, who's more in the FDR/Kennedy/Johnson mold.

[Bluenorthwest]

59. Hate is a word casually hurled by the protected and fortunate who have little real life experience

with hate. Hate is an action. Hate opposes the rights of others and sometimes comes with baseball bats and gasoline. Hate is when Ronald Reagan neglected to do anything about AIDS as tens of thousands died.
I mean, gain some perspective.

[coco77]

66. If you can't discuss the issues now..

when can you? Everyone is tired of the same old lies when nothing changes for the people on the lower end . We have been watching this for decades only a few benefit. We watch Democrats and republiCons on these talk shows like MJ throwing around millions like they are pennies and crying about a tax cut as though that matters to most.

If you don't have a job or are in debt what does it matter. If you are homeless who gives a damn! We watched Hillary in 2008 not get out the race when she was losing and then had the audacity to ask Obama supporters to pay off her 21 million dollar debt when she is a millionaire. Most of the shit she is talking about won't be felt by most,but feinstein,ryan mcconnell,and the rest of the gang will be even richer..

When it comes to the people tax dollars they use it for wars and other peoples shit but when it comes to using our money for WE THE PEOPLE we hear but,but,but,it can't be done..

[retrowire]

71. Well said. Absolutely. nt

[coco77]

73. We can't talk about it...

just put the crown on her head and shut up.

[SDANation]

79. I agree to an extent...

The president has a good amount of power but the power that we would seek to help ourselves lies with the senate and house. Obama could have been a much more effective president had the republicans not blocked his every move. The true power is electing liberal senators and representatives. Not the pres. IMHO... I just think Hillary is a better politician right now to get things moving in Washington because she has the experience and knowledge. Not that Sanders doesn't a but she may be more effective.

[Suprk]

67. Hate is too strong a word

I don't hate her, I just strongly disagree with her on a host of core issues.

[CrowCityDem]

69. Yes, but I find most hate to be. It's unhealthy.

[Skittles]

74. they're over-the-top sickening

f*** them all

[calimary]

77. Yes.

[pnwmom]

78. Thanks for posting this, SDANation.

And a belated Welcome to DU!

[tammywammy]

80. Locking

You can repost in General Discussion: Primaries