Women may soon be required to register for Selective Service. How do you feel?

[PlanetaryOrbit]

The Senate just passed a $602 billion defense spending bill. In it, among other things, is a requirement for women to register for Selective Service, just like men. The Senate bill still has to be reconciled with the House version, though. And if Obama vetoes it, the Senate may very well override the veto since it already had/has 85 votes in the Senate.

What are your thoughts on it?

My thoughts are that this is going to be a highly unpopular move, but it's the fair thing to do. I do not agree with the societal attitude that if a man dies in combat, it is less tragic than if a woman dies in combat - which seems to be part of the attitude driving the notion that only men should be drafted and not women (society really does not consider all deaths to be equal). I think this is one of those "equality goes both ways" situations. At any rate, it's not like a military draft is going to be reinstated any time soon, so registering for Selective Service is simply going to entail filling out some unpopular paperwork.

[obamanut2012]

1. Pass an ERA, and I'm 100% for it

[csziggy]

3. ^^^THIS^^^

If women have all the obligations as men we should be assured we have all the rights that men have.

[Hortensis]

10. Pass this and the ERA will be that much more doable.

Want equal rights, shoulder equal responsibilities.

Have equal responsibilities, no excuse to deny equal rights.

[obamanut2012]

26. Nope, give us the rights first, or they will never come

[Hortensis]

27. "Give?" "Come?" Since "they" gave us the vote,

a long time ago now, we can do far better for ourselves than sit around waiting for things to be given to us and to come along. Just imo.

[obamanut2012]

62. wut

[Starry Messenger]

14. Same.

[gollygee]

21. That and deal with the rape epidemic in the US military

Agreed.

[obamanut2012]

25. Yes, cosign

[JanMichael]

37. Ding! We have a winner! nt

[bemildred]

48. +1. nt

[Iggo]

57. Ayup.

[scscholar]

58. Really? You support the Republican's War on Women? (ntxt)

[obamanut2012]

61. lolz you guys!

[Calista241]

68. Agreed. If you get all the benefits of our society, you should have to pay for it like everyone.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. One of two things:

A) It might discourage a capricious vote by Congress to enact a draft for war, or

B) We may continue having unitary engagements without the votes of Congress indefinitely because the draft would be so unpopular.

[ancianita]

4. This will NEVER be fair to women until all reported rapes are prosecuted by civilian law. A woman

should never have to fight both an enemy in front of her and one in back of her who's supposed to actually protect her as he would any brother-in-arms. There is no harassment or rape that ever -- ever -- should be endured for any alleged greater good.

If you don't protect your female military, you don't get to draft them.

My vote is no until the DoD has restructured all justice processes for military rape.

No fucking exceptions.

[demmiblue]

7. ^ This ^

[apcalc]

19. Good and important point!

[smirkymonkey]

30. +1000

This and No ERA, no draft for women. Both those conditions MUST be met before women can be forced to register.

[MerryBlooms]

33. Rec. Well stated.

[appalachiablue]

53. +5. Also equal pay for US women enforced across the board or else severely penalized.

[rainy]

5. I say that when women make up at least half of the war deciding body of our government then women

can register.

[JustinL]

43. does that apply to other groups as well?

Shouldn't nonwhite and nonreligious people also be exempt since they're also underrepresented in Congress? For that matter, what about young people?

FWIW, I believe the draft should be eliminated entirely.

[PlanetaryOrbit]

50. Like JustinL said.........

What about every racial minority in America?

[mahina]

6. I agree it's the fair thing to do, and also think it will make more people pay attention

Both to politics and international affairs, as well.

It should increase voter turnout too, this go round at least, as young women become aware that this is on the horizon.

[Hortensis]

12. Right. Personally, I think the draft should

extend right through the 40s or so. THAT would make more people pay attention.

[Just reading posts]

29. You want 45 year old Americans to be pulled from their jobs and sent into military service?

Um....really?

[Hortensis]

34. Really. It'd pretty much mean the end

to unnecessary, for-profit wars, don't you think? I also feel that mature adults are exactly the ones who should be going to war, instead of sending their kids. I won't be holding my breath waiting for a national wave of proud responsibility, though.

[Just reading posts]

36. Why not just draft 80 year old great grandmothers while you're at it?

I won't be holding my breath waiting for a national wave of proud responsibility, though.

I hope not, since your proposal hasn't the slightest chance of ever being put into effect.

[snooper2]

67. are you saying 80 year old great grandmothers couldn't contribute to a war effort?

Isn't that ageism!

[JustinL]

44. and what about those who are killed and maimed while we're waiting for the end of war?

Are they just unwilling martyrs to the cause?

[Hortensis]

46. You seem to have less faith in the willingness

of people to just say no when it's their own comfort and economic wellbeing on the line, JustinL. I'm pretty sure that, short of the equivalent of another bombing of Pearl Harbor and threats invasion across both oceans, using a draft that could hit anyone any time during a quarter century of their adulthood would be bad for a party at reelection.

I imagine the citizenry might even have a whole new viewpoint about the desirability of protecting Middle East or Asian oil pipelines in 115 degree temperatures versus putting sustainable energy programs in high gear right here at home. Just for one for-instance.

I must say I'm a little disappointed at all this resistance to even an unrealistic air-dream of sharing responsibility and sacrifice. '"Give" me the Equal Rights Amendment and then maybe I'll consider whether I'm interested in shouldering the equal responsibilities that should come with it.' 'Our kids can go to war and all we'll do is grumble that war is evil or wave flags, but don't even think we'd go instead.'

Just maybe if it were older women voters who were being raped we'd scream bloody murder legally, make lousier victims than our daughters? What would our husbands have to say about it? Would people who've grown relatively educated and prosperous in maturity see institutionalized victimization as appropriate for them?

[LanternWaste]

70. As recently as 2011, the army allowed anyone up to the age of 42 years old to enlist

As recently as 2011, the army allowed anyone up to the age of 42 years old to enlist and complete basic training.

[-none]

8. Oh, hell no.

Never mind both my daughters are in their 30's and not subject to the draft.
A better plan is to stop our corporate wars of choice, then we would not need a possible draft.

[Just reading posts]

9. I'm against the Draft. Not a fan of involuntary servitude.

[Basic LA]

22. You & me both !

I'm against the draft. (I speak as a Vietnam vet.) I'm even against jury duty, except for DU.

[jberryhill]

11. It only makes sense

Putting aside the whole issue of whether ANYONE should have to register, I don't see why only men should.

[pnwmom]

13. It's not fair till we pass the Equal Rights Amendment.

The main excuses for not passing it before were gay marriage and women being drafted. If they want to draft women, the ERA needs to get passed first.

[KamaAina]

15. "Me And Julia Down By The Schoolyard"

a potential remake of the Paul Simon classic.

[JennyMominFL]

16. Get rid of it

I think it's fair for all Americans to register. However, as someone who served in the Miltary, I would rather have someone serving next to me because they choose to rather than being forced to. I'd rather just get rid of it completely. and I agree with the poster above who said we should pass the ERA first

[HereSince1628]

17. I'm not a fan of conscription. I'd have many concerns with women actually being drafted

I'd want to be sure that the differences in assignment to modes of service wouldn't be unreasonably sex-biased.

Making conscription acceptable to congress critters could create a real mess of gender bias

[apcalc]

18. Pass the ERA

Then it would be fine.

[auntpurl]

20. Agree. nt

[valerief]

23. I see an increase in pregnancies if there's a draft. Cuz war shit sucks and only benefits

WAR PROFITEERS.

[hunter]

24. I think this Selective Service registration is bizarre.

The Vietnam war ended before I was draft age and I also missed this registration crap. Registered or not, Uncle Sam knows who you are.

My mom's family are pacifists. That's how most of her ancestors ended up in the U.S.A.. They escaped the U.S. Civil War too.

Both my dad and his dad served in the military. My grandpa was an Army Air Force officer in World War II. He didn't fly; they decided he was more valuable on the ground. After the war he was an aerospace engineer and worked on the Apollo Project making some especially difficult bits of metal.

If I was asked to fight an unjust war I'd walk away. If my kids were asked, and they chose not to fight, I'd find a way that they could walk away.

My mom's dad was a conscientious objector in World War II. He was also a welder. They gave him a choice, prison or building and repairing ships for the Merchant Marine. He built ships.

[davidn3600]

28. So we are going to have a female commander-in-chief...

....who will be just as war-hawkish as her white male predecessors. And women want to have no skin in the game?

I mean if you are going to have this system, then it should be for both genders. That is if you believe in equality and want combat jobs open to women.

Otherwise, just scrap the whole damn thing.

You can't just have equality only in the areas you want. It's ridiculous to scream for equal rights for an entire century but still expect men to go out and be the only ones forced to die for their country whether they agree with the war or not.

[smirkymonkey]

31. Yes, but we don't have equal rights yet.

So no draft until the ERA is passed.

[davidn3600]

39. What would passing ERA magically do?

I'm all for it.
But I don't know what it would legally accomplish. Since it failed to pass in the 1980s, most states and the federal government have passed laws already that do what the ERA would have accomplished back then. So it has made it a bit redundant, legally speaking.

Like I've said before, Democrats should have pushed for a full blown ERA back in 2009 instead of Lilly Ledbetter Act, which has turned out to have practically no effect.

[REP]

32. The exemption for women has been for breeding more soldiers, not sentiment

Women have traditionally been exempted from the battlefield simply because of the one-to-one ratio of woman to birth at a time, whereas a single male can impregnate many women within a short time period. So if the male population was decimated or even more severely reduced, the few remaining men could impregnate the ample supply of women to bring up the numbers of available cannon fodder.

Dress it up with some sentimental excuses, such as the delicate nature of the fairer sex or women might go insane on their periods and defect, but the true reason is that women have traditionally been reserved to serve in the trenches as breeding stock.

[LeftRant]

35. I think it's great. We'll have more discussions about our military use perhaps.

We already know they CAN serve. I think the furtherance of equality demands this

[catnhatnh]

38. It wouldn't be fair???

What the hell kind of idiot thinks the draft has ever been fair to males??? And now filling out a fucking form is less fair to women then that part where males were actually killed half way around the world for years in Vietnam??? Equality? But filling out a sheet of paper is bullshit?

[PlanetaryOrbit]

40. The penalty for men and women who don't register

Does anyone know if the main penalty for not registering for Selective Service, is that you cannot get FAFSA federal student financial aid?

[uppityperson]

41. That is true, and you can't get a drivers license either.

[JonLeibowitz]

79. Not just that: ineligibility for many federal and state government jobs.

[JustinL]

42. I feel that the Selective Service should be abolished n/t

[treestar]

45. Fine

That is perfectly ok and right. Any opposition I have torched raft is another issue

[struggle4progress]

47. It means twice as much opposition to a draft

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

49. I imagine a woman could get out of serving by getting pregnant

if ever called up to draft. The draft would be for women at prime ages for child bearing. I imagine attempting to draft women would result in a large baby boom in this country. Sure they can register, but I just don't think actually drafting them is going to work out so well.

[tonyt53]

51. I'm fine with it. For the next war, I'd prefer we reinstate the draft with zero deferments.

[Agnosticsherbet]

52. There is no reason women should be denied the requirement to sign up for selective service.

[libodem]

54. All the responsibility

None of the perks. That was a big issue when we tried to ratify the ERA.

Maybe this issue eill help make us equal to that one fucking rib from Adam?

Signed

Paying For It Ever Since

[Jester Messiah]

55. It seems overdue.

Equality means equality.

[notadmblnd]

56. It means nothing, just like males registering for SS currently means nothing

Currently we have an all volunteer military not a draft so registering for the draft is kinda meaningless.

Now what they should do is require all young people to serve in the military, no exceptions. Religious get no breaks, college students get no breaks, rich get no breaks. Everyone has skin in the game.

I could almost guarantee our leaders wouldn't be so quick to lob bombs when they determine they want to loot other countries of their resources if they have to risk losing their offspring for $$s

[Peace Patriot]

59. I'm totally favor of women being able to kill for Exxon Mobil!

Especially after TPP gets shoved down our throats, and automation then cuts our throats, and the last of our working class jobs disappear, what are people gonna do to make a living, huh? Women will need to be equal opportunity killers to have any income at all, and, hey, I hear the health care is terrific and it's included in the package if you survive the oil wars and need prosthetic devices or whatever.

Yes! Draft women! It's only fair!

I considered using but I'm not really being sarcastic.

Positive statement: Feminism is, and always has been, about peace and social justice--NOT about war, and especially not about UNJUST war to make the uber-rich uber-richer!

Peace (I'm a 71 year old woman. Been in the struggle for equality, human rights, peace and social justice for a lo-o-o-ong time.)

[Warren DeMontague]

60. I think it's right.

Particularly if gender is really a meaningless fiction, or whatever. I don't know how anyone can justify handling it an other way. How are we supposed to approach 18 year olds who identify as non gender binary, etc?

Only fair way to handle it is, everyone registers.

But really we should do away with the whole thing.

[PlanetaryOrbit]

63. When the House and Senate reconcile the different bill versions

Is the House typically more likely to cave in to the Senate, or vice versa?

[Downtown Hound]

64. I think Selective Service is a con job and always has been

If we ever needed a draft again, we could easily come up with one without wasting millions of dollars a year during peacetime on a bullshit bureaucracy that serves no purpose.

[LWolf]

65. Fair? I suppose. Right? No way in hell.

I support equal rights. I support treating genders equally.

I strongly oppose the Selective Service System in total.

This shouldn't be unpopular due to gender. It should be unpopular because it's a move in the wrong direction. It's doubling the number that are mandated to register, from 50% to 100%.

Instead, the Selective Service should be abolished. That 50% should be dropped to 0%.

[bigwillq]

66. Fine by me (nt)

[Stellar]

69. Are they still being raped in the service?

The Pentagon’s annual report on sexual assault in the military uses data from a survey of active-duty members to extrapolate an estimate of how many have experienced some form of assault.

Its most recent report, released this week, estimated that 26,000 service members experienced “unwanted sexual contact,” which includes rape, attempted rape and unwanted sexual touching. Of these, an estimated 12,100 were women — and 13,900 were men. Fewer than half of the incidents involved alcohol.

Frontline

[JonLeibowitz]

80. Seems like both men and women were raped.

[Stellar]

81. I know, and I remember reading that nothing is being done about it. nt

[frogmarch]

71. Would the women be maids and waitresses at

military bases?

OK, what about pay? Would the women receive equal pay to the men's?

[RAFisher]

72. Way overdue.

I remember in high school when I found out that only males could be drafted. It struck me as very old. As a male I didn't think it was fair, especially in this day and age when so much of warfare is with the Air Force and Navy. What, women can't fly a plane just as well as a man?

[lunatica]

73. I say men shouldn't have to register for Selective Service

Let the politicians go themselves and not be allowed to even send their children. We'll see how many wars we start then.

[bonemachine]

74. Eliminate Selective Service

Period.

[OldHippieChick]

75. Okay, let's take this one step further

As much as I was against the draft during Viet Nam, now I say bring it back. Bring it back for men and women and no more "rich" guy deferments. These same folks who have had to make several return trips to Iraq and Afghanistan should get to share the glory w the sons and daughters of the well-to-do.

I predict we would stop all this endless war talk. People need to realize what is at stake. if it is their children, they might not be so rah-rah.

[peace13]

76. ERA and yes.

Both!

[Agnosticsherbet]

77. I think women should be equal in all ways, including the annoying necessity of registering for the

Selective Service.

[shenmue]

78. I'm okay with it

[Vinca]

82. If men have to register, women have to register.

You can't cherry pick what parts of equality you like.

[Skittles]

83. I served

[lumberjack_jeff]

84. Not a lot of support for equality here... except for the presidency, of course.

There is something to be said of electing a commander in chief who controls the fate of lives they value as well as those they don't.

I think it's funny that people condition their support for the responsibilities of citizenship on passage of the ERA. Every single law that would be rendered unconstitutional by its passage were intended to help women.

Now that women can serve in combat, the entire premise of Rotsker vs Goldberg is irrelevant. The male-only draft is unconstitutional and counterproductive.

One of the primary reasons young men are poorly educated is because if they don't register to be drafted, they aren't allowed to apply for student aid.