Fox News is at it again -- attacking Bill Press over his comments on the "Star Spangled Banner"

[markpkessinger]

he debate over both the appropriateness and the singability of the Star Spangled Banner as the national anthem has come and gone for decades, yet FOX news is trying to cast it as being driven by some kind of anti-American hostility. Personally, I've always thought America, the Beautiful is more appropriate textually, is more appropriately reverent, is far more singable and far and away more aesthetic than the current drinking song!

I would also note that in the months following 9/11, it was America, the Beautiful that people took comfort in, not the bombastic SSB! And THAT is the mark of a culturally authentic national anthem!

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/bill-press-hits-back-right-wing-attacks-ov#comment-2093431

[bluestateguy]

1. This is what they do: stir up culture war crap to whip up Middle America types

It is a documented fact that Fox's viewers are the most uninformed.

[Ian David]

2. I prefer This Land is Your Land. n/t

[CTyankee]

23. can't have that...written by a communist...

[kskiska]

24. They like the Pledge of Allegiance

and that was written by a socialist with the intent of indoctrinating our youth to patriotic love of centralized government.

[Bake]

25. And besides that, it's NOT. Your land, that is.

It belongs to the 1%, not to We the People.

Bake

[monmouth]

3. Bill has a great show on CURRENT in the morning. Maybe he's cutting into their ratings..n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. i hope so, tis a joy to hear.

[KurtNYC]

4. The phrase "at it AGAIN" implies that they stopped at some point

I must have missed that.

[markpkessinger]

5. LOL! Point well taken! ;) n/t

[a smart liberal]

9. Stop the Crazy People

Haha! They will never stop. They could wipe out all of the left wingers and they would still end up split in half fighting each other over another insignificant "issue".

[Politicalboi]

6. So "Pro-American"

But owned by foreigners.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. not only is press right, he is NOT backing down.

unlike so many Democrats in office or even talking heads.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. The tune is an old English drinking song, and it's hard to sing.

In fact, it was probably sung only by drunk people who didn't care what they sounded like. I kind of like it, but only because the tune sounds great when played by a good band. But the flying monkeys of Faux News will pick on anything. Hell, if a liberal talking head complained about the fucking weather they'd ask, "Isn't American weather good enough for you? Why don't you move to Russia where it snows all the time? Why do you hate America?"

[whopis01]

14. That's actually not correct - the drinking song part at least

Many have assumed it was a drinking song due to the references to Bacchus's vine and, of course, Anacreon himself (who was known for his drinking songs and poetry).

The music was composed by John Stafford Smith who was a member of the Anacreontic Society - a musicians club in London in the 18th century. The music and the original words (To Anacreon in Heaven) where the club's official song. It is doubtful that it had much popularity outside of the society.

The difficulty of singing the song seems to have been a sort of challenge from Smith to the other members of the club.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. Nevertheless, I'll bet they usually got drunk to sing it.

Because that's the only way you can.

[DreamGypsy]

11. Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution???

How does the world regard a country with a national anthem that proclaims:

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Yeah, verse three of the Star Spangled Banner makes me a bit queasy. Of course, that verse isn't sung very often because the American attention span can only make it through one verse. And, of course, "gloom of the grave" might cut into nachos sales at the game.

Power and Glory by Phil Ochs has always been my candidate for a new anthem for the United States of America:

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but Bruce could definitely produce a great anthem as well. Or, we could just let Woody sing it for us...

[GeorgeGist]

12. I enjoy the Olympics ...

but am embarrassed when they play our national anthem.

The music and lyrics suck.

[SoutherDem]

13. I do like the SSB but

I have always thought it was odd our National Anthem is about war.

[brendan120678]

18. Speaking of war songs, ever hear the Irish national anthem?

A Soldiers Song

First Verse:
We'll sing a song, a soldier's song
With cheering, rousing chorus
As round our blazing fires we throng,
The starry heavens o'er us;
Impatient for the coming fight,
And as we wait the mornings light
here in the silence of the night
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Chorus:
Soldiers are we, whose lives are pledged to Ireland
Some have come from a land beyond the wave,
Sworn to be free,
no more our ancient sireland
Shall shelter the despot or the slave;
tonight we man the Bearna Baoghal
In Erin's cause
come woe or weal;
'Mid cannon's roar and rifle's peal
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Second Verse:
In valley green or towering crag
Our fathers fought before us,
And conquered 'neath the same old flag
That's floating o'er us,
We're children of a fighting race
That never yet has known disgrace,
And as we march the foe to face,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Third Verse:
Sons of the Gael! Men of the Pale!
The Long watched day is breaking;
The serried ranks of Innisfail
Shall set the tyrant quaking.
Our camp fires now are burning low;
See in the east a silvery glow,
Out yonder waits the saxon foe,
So chant a soldier's song.

[SaB2012]

20. Well, the U.S. *was* borne out of wars

That's really an undeniable fact. If it weren't for (primarily) the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, and if America had not won those wars, we might never had been here discussing the pros and cons of the National Anthem.

[LanternWaste]

22. I'd warrant that the poster's concern was aligned

I'd warrant that the poster's concern was aligned with the song actually giving glory and beauty to war rather than merely acknowledging its existence.

At least, that's been my take on its unique weirdness...

And as for hypothetical and historical what-ifs... each side has a million of 'em.

[SoutherDem]

28. Yes, that is what I was saying

It almost seems in our DNA to glorify war.

[SoutherDem]

27. I am not questioning the fact that we were borne out of war.

But, the OP referred to America, The Beautiful and I would also through in My Country tis of Thee could be excellent National Anthems.

I am not advocating changing national anthems I am just saying there are other options which may not directly refer to "bombs bursting in air".

[Marooned]

15. I prefer the SSB

very stirring when I hear it played at the Olympics while raising the flag.

[Uncle Joe]

16. The Star Spangled Banner at its' base is about nothing but war, idolism and jingoism

better national anthems would be "American the Beautiful" or "This Land is your Land."

Humanity needs to evolve away from war and toward stewardship of our only home in the Universe.

Thanks for the thread, markpkessinger.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Just another in Fox's long line of non issues

They waste more time wringing their hands over ridiculous issues.

[SaB2012]

21. The Star Spangled Banner pays tribute to those who gave their lives to defend our fledgling nation

And to those who continue to give their lives for it, be they military personnel or civilians. Without those noble, selfless sacrifices, I doubt we'd be here debating the issue.

Besides, this event really solidified my love for the National Anthem:

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[pacalo]

26. It's a tribute to those who fought for independence from a despotic British king...

(think "Scott Walker&quot . It can arguably serve as a reminder that Republicans like to keep this country in a perpetual state of war (for profits). The fight for independence, rather than for oil & profits, was a noble one, indeed.

And, strangely, that last thought might not have occurred to me if Fixed News weren't trying to make an issue of it by putting their own spin to it. They're heavily invested in keeping the country divided with their so-called "culture wars" ("war against Christmas" is another one ). Fixed News is nothing more than a propaganda machine to stir hatred & keep the country divided.

[SaB2012]

30. No offense, but

That was a really strange segue.

[pacalo]

32. Actually, it was your post that drifted away from the main point of the OP.

Unless I'm mistaken, the OP's focus was on Fixed News using the Star Spangled Banner as a tool for division. Your post avoided that thesis.

No offense taken.

[DreamGypsy]

31. The Star Spangled Banner commemorates a dispute over empire

The Star Spangled banner was written in 1814 during the War 0f 18112, after the battle of Battle of Fort McHenry. The ambitions of the United States in that war were not for independence, but for empire.

From Wikipedia (emphasis mine):

The War of 1812 was a military conflict fought between the forces of the United States of America and those of the British Empire. The Americans declared war in 1812 for several reasons, including trade restrictions brought about by Britain's ongoing war with France, the impressment of American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy, British support of American Indian tribes against American expansion, outrage over insults to national honour after humiliations on the high seas and possible American desire to annex Canada.[3] Tied down in Europe until 1814, the British at first used defensive strategy, repelling multiple American invasions of the provinces of Upper and Lower Canada. However, the Americans gained control over Lake Erie in 1813, seized parts of western Ontario, and ended the prospect of an Indian confederacy and an independent Indian state in the Midwest under British sponsorship. In the Southwest, General Andrew Jackson destroyed the military strength of the Creek nation at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend in 1814. With the defeat of Napoleon in 1814, the British adopted a more aggressive strategy, sending in three large invasion armies. The British victory at the Battle of Bladensburg in August 1814 allowed them to capture and burn Washington, D.C. American victories in September 1814 and January 1815 repulsed all three British invasions in New York, Baltimore and New Orleans.

This war was a battle of two major nations to maintain or extend their empires. A side effect of the war was allowing the United States to begin westward expansion in earnest, displacing Native Americans.

Again from Wikipedia:

Historians generally agree that the real losers of the War of 1812 were the Indians (called "First Nations" in Canada). American settlers into the Middle West had been repeatedly blocked and threatened by Indian raids before 1812, and that now came to an end. Throughout the war the British had played on terror of the tomahawks and scalping knives of their Indian allies; it worked especially at Hull's surrender at Detroit. By 1813 Americans had killed Tecumseh and broken his coalition of tribes. Jackson then defeated the enemy Indians in the Southwest. At the peace conference the British demanded an independent Indian state in the Midwest, but by late 1814 the British-Indian alliance had been defeated militarily and the British had to abandon the demand. The withdrawal of British protection gave the Americans a free hand, which resulted in the removal of most of the tribes to Indian Territory (present-day Oklahoma). In that sense according to historian Alan Taylor, the final victory at New Orleans had "enduring and massive consequences." It gave the Americans "continental predominance" while it left the Indians dispossessed, powerless, and vulnerable.

This chapter of my country's history is not one in which I take pride.

[mrmpa]

29. Back in the '30's when there was a competition.........

to name what would be out national anthem, George Gershwin wrote "O Land of Mine, America", which many over the years have said, it should have been name the anthem. It wasn't and the reason it wasn't is probably because Gershwin was Jewish.

What if "O Land of Mine, America", was our national anthen? Would the repugs hate it, because a Jew wrote it, or because it embraced America as everyone's?

I don't get it, that the right just doesn't get it.

[alp227]

33. Bill responded on his radio show: