General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBrexit vote to Leave is the end result of stupid people voting
They are stupid because they do not get any real information from their version of the Fourth Estate.
This same phenomenon can EASILY happen here. Indeed it HAS happened here. Our current US House and Senate are testimony to the power of the stupid.
First and foremost I blame the media.
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)David__77
(23,468 posts)Let alone one that required a supermajority?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)RAFisher
(466 posts)David__77
(23,468 posts)...
PatSeg
(47,563 posts)Should have been as difficult as a constitutional amendment in the states.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,032 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Can't have it both ways. Either you have voting, or you bar stupid people from voting. Obviously the definition of stupid will be dependent on which side you're on, since nobody is going to call the people voting for the things they themselves want stupid. Which is why we allow everyone to vote, because if we kept it to non-stupid people, nobody would be allowed to vote, because everyone thinks everyone else is stupid.
If the other side of the side you're on is always stupid, then nobody ever has to listen to what the other side of of the side you're on has to say, because they're stupid. It's a wonderful way to do it. Nobody has to talk to the other side that way. The internet only helps that, because we can all insulate ourselves to anything that we don't agree with, very easily.
I think the stupid theory is far too simple, because people only call what they don't agree with stupid. Nobody would call what they agree with stupid, since that would make you stupid, but you can't be stupid, since you're not on the stupid side, and would never be on the stupid side, because nobody would voluntarily be on the stupid side.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Indirectly responsible for this. He destabilized the M.E. That led to more muslim countries in north Africa, Syria, etc destabilizing, leading to a bigger immigration/ refugee issue. The folks living in the shire didn't want to having anything to do with it. I think it became the straw that broke the camel's back.
calimary
(81,423 posts)to the term "trickle down."
What really shocked me were the reports I've seen this morning about how many people who voted "Leave" are now wondering if they maybe should have voted the other way...
Nobody thinks about consequences anymore. Nobody thinks about the ramifications of extreme measures like this. Nobody!
Reminds me of what happened here in California in 1978, when nobody thought about the consequences of ramming that Proposition 13 bullshit down everyone's throats. Nobody listened to the cooler heads who tried to explain things in full and come up with alternatives that were much more workable. It spread like a cancer across the country and caused the "I Hate Taxes" revolt that still has a big hold on too many people. And NOBODY has successfully beaten that back. NOBODY realizes what those taxes pay for - like, for example, all the things they like and approve of, and that in many cases they've come to depend upon.
Here, too, the same thing. They voted with their hearts instead of their heads. They voted for the feeling, the quick fix, the dumbed-down assumptions, the pleasure of making an in-yer-face statement just for the sake of being in-yer-face, the "nobody tells ME what to do!" crap, the purported "righteous indignation" of IGMFU. And that won't serve them at all. It won't serve any of their needs. But it WILL serve them, alright. On a platter.
Hekate
(90,770 posts)...the size of California, where it begins to break down. My late mother saw the effects of Prop 13 immediately, when the local public library had to drastically scale back its hours. She complained about other effects as well, but that one really hurt, and she seems to have been one of the few who saw the connection.
But moving on to "direct democracy" scaling up -- it simply does not work on the massive scale needed for nations. It's why we have elections of people who will represent our interests and make it their full time job until we have another election. It's why ... Argh ... Checks and balances...
People are going with their guts, not their brains or their hearts.
I think DU is having one of its psychotic episodes. I'm shocked at the number of people who call for "direct democracy" because apparently that will give us a leader as benign as Bernie Sanders. I look at the divisions in this country and it could just as easily give us Donald Trump, the way the UK just got Brexit.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)General ideas about these big decisions. Most of them don't understand the details and consequences for those details. Hence, we need representative democracy, professionals to look at all the evidence before taking a position. I'm not surprised to hear that many are regretting their vote.
I'm a little surprised the threshold was a simple majority vs 3/5ths or something.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Native
(5,943 posts)we haven't had anything approaching an unbiased or fair media since then.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)deurbano
(2,895 posts)<<They are stupid because they do not get any real information from their version of the Fourth Estate.
This same phenomenon can EASILY happen here. Indeed it HAS happened here. Our current US House and Senate are testimony to the power of the stupid.
First and foremost I blame the media.>>
Native
(5,943 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)during the golden age of news....people paid for news
Many people also read a newspaper everyday
now, we are headline viewers
and get biased news from sources who are selling us (our eyes) as a commodity.
so of course you get the sensational news ....with the attention grabbing headlines
instead of indepth, critical news
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Just a couple of Islands LOL
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,032 posts)Hekate
(90,770 posts)Triana
(22,666 posts)brentspeak
(18,290 posts)Thanks for making clear one of the reasons the English no longer wanted to be controlled by Brussels.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Technology will make the economy more and more global.
KPN
(15,649 posts)underpants
(182,865 posts)THE US Senate is a result of ignorance and, frankly, overrepresentation of smaller states - the second part isn't going to change.
The US House is due to gerrymandering.
eppur_se_muova
(36,281 posts)underpants
(182,865 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,817 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)about how many who voted for it didn't realize what they voted for.
Stinky The Clown
(67,817 posts). . . . . thinking the polls were strongly in favor of staying. Now she says they all regret their votes.
treestar
(82,383 posts)forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)The Senate basically gives Montana the same voting power as California despite having 10% of the population.
Stinky The Clown
(67,817 posts)Hekate
(90,770 posts).... NOT direct democracy on the federal level. Some of them had serious concerns about mobocracy.
With good reason.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)I can't copy-and-paste, but you can see it here:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/06/24/friday-morning-open-thread-brexit-dont-panic/#comments
Here's the interesting (to me) part:
Age Remain Leave
18-24 64% 24%
25-49 45% 39%
50-64 35% 49%
65+ 33% 58%
The longer folks have to live with this decision, the more likely they were to vote to remain. I'm not saying that's the sole consideration that drove people's votes, but this decision skews greatly by age.
deurbano
(2,895 posts)while the younger voters have never known anything but membership in the EU (or the EC before that). For them, there is no experience of that which (supposedly) needs to be retaken.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,209 posts)Did too many young people just not vote?
Ultimately, Cameron failed to convince voters to remain. I think this was probably just as much a referendum on him as it was on Brexit. Not unlike the Senate refusing to approve Obama's nominee for SCOTUS even though he's about as middle of the road as you can get. They just don't want to approve OBAMA'S choice. Now they will likely have to approve Clinton's choice.
daleo
(21,317 posts)So, they voted for the status quo that they knew. For older people, they knew the non-EU status quo best, since they came of age under it. For the middle-aged, their experiences were a bit of both, so their vote was quite equal.
That's how I see the age effect working out.
Ex Lurker
(3,815 posts)nt
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)you're doing horribly at it.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,032 posts)enid602
(8,642 posts)Thank God we don't have many stupid people here.
elmac
(4,642 posts)and that may be how Trump becomes president, there are plenty of those voters in the USA.
RAFisher
(466 posts)Their complete dismissal of experts was pretty remarkable. No wonder most of them weren't college educated. As Aristotle said:
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,032 posts)philosslayer
(3,076 posts)I assume thats your conclusion? Because after all, one must be college educated to REALLY understand how the world works.
Wednesdays
(17,400 posts)Everyone who wants to be, anyway.
Cosmocat
(14,568 posts)it is a mild influencer, but we have hit a critical mass now where people are out and our rejecting simple reality and facts, and in fact are completely dismissive toward knowledge, facts, and those who poses them.
The influence of the media is over estimated.
We just are that fucking stupid of our own volition.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,032 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)The media over there is waaaaaaay better than it is over here!
Hate radio and fox "news" anyone?
mckara
(1,708 posts)People are sick of multinational corporations and big banks hollowing out democratic institutions for the sake of chasing dollars and privatizing the social safety net to extinction. People want the power to control their own lives and their wealth should not be the arbitrator of their futures and the futures of their children.
840high
(17,196 posts)are tired of deaf politicians.
chillfactor
(7,580 posts)as STUPID as trump voters...
egduj
(805 posts)PJMcK
(22,041 posts)Your thesis is right on the money, Stinky, and I agree that stupid people will vote for stupid people.
The media, however, isn't to blame; it's the stupid people. Stupid people don't educate themselves about facts and knowledge. Sadly, there are far too many stupid people and the Brexit vote illustrates that the Stupid isn't limited to the USA.
For the most part, the posters on Democratic Underground are informed and intelligent members of society. They make it their responsibility to search out the news from various sources and then try to distill some kind of "truth" from it all. There are others in our society that perform this basic civic duty to be well informed using whatever sources they have available.
Conversely, far too many Americans (and presumably, citizens of other countries) don't try to be informed. They get their news from "The Today Show" or Fox News or Headline News. The complexity of the 21st century world cannot be distilled and understood in the 15-second sound bites or brief internet headlines that make up most of broadcast and published news. It's the responsibility of an informed public to oversee its government. That's why our Constitution begins with, "We, The People..." Unfortunately, far too many people, particularly on the political right, have embraced ignorance as a strength.
So, I believe it's the stupid people's fault. If they weren't stupid, we'd have better news. In the end, all media is a reflection of its society.
tblue37
(65,477 posts)sufficient wattage, but either through no fault of their own or because of their own foolishness or maliciousness they don't inform themselves or apply their intelligence to override their emotional reactions.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)(Note, I hate the stupid people voting argument.)