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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRoute 66 - what are the connotations associated with this term?
I know what it is, but I'm trying to find out its historical meaning as well as why youngsters would be aware of it today.
For example, I did a search and realized that Route 66 did have a racist past. A book was available for black Americans to let them know about the sundown towns-or, the all white towns-that would not be friendly to PoC in their travels.
Someone over seventy might be aware of this history, but I'm not sure that it's the contemporary reason that a kid under ten might make reference to it today.
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2015/feb/27/green-book-south-west-usa-route-66-civil-rights
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)It's one of those phrases that are very time specific. Most youngsters would not have heard it, unless they overheard conversations from older people, or if they had a grandparent who played that song that commemorated it.
still_one
(92,325 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Stellar
(5,644 posts)And then PBS did a road trip following the trail of Route 66 from Chicago all the way to L.A....a rarely used road and a lot of the places that have fallen into disrepair since it's heydays.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)racist past of pretty much the entire country. That road was not an exception, unfortunately.
Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)But, if you're going from point A to point B and Route 66 is the best or most popular route to get there, it might be the reason it created a reason for someone to write a book about the places to avoid along the way.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)made very sure that they were aware of what places were "safe" for them when travelling back in the day. I myself (and I'm 67) never saw any Whites Only signs when I was growing up, although I was in northern NYS until age 14, then out to Tucson, and in those parts of the country those signs didn't seem to have ever been there.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)You're overthinking this. In 1955, traveling cross country was an adventurous, romantic thing.
Retrograde
(10,143 posts)So northern Mid-Westish to west would be a better description.
Central Ave. in Albuquerque was part of Route 66 - there are (or were, when I was there a few years ago) a number of abandoned motels just east of town from when that area saw a lot of tourist traffic pass by. There are small sections of Rte 66 in the Mojave desert in California, but there's not much on them anymore.
Was the road racist? No - it's just a road, it just lies there. The people who lived on or traveled on it may have been another story.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Driving from LA, route 66 gets you three-quarters of the way there.
I doubt that the towns on main highways (like the interstates today) were any more racist than those off the beaten path.
Tanuki
(14,920 posts)to write a book about places to avoid. The "reason" was a reality in all 50 states (not to excuse any and all bigots inhabiting the towns along Rt 66), and the Green Book originally covered only the New York City area and gradually expanded. I'm glad you raised this important chapter in American history, but there is so much more to it. There is a digital archive of the contents and lots of info at the link below.
http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/collections/the-green-book#/?tab=about
"...[from the 1949 edition] With the introduction of this travel guide in 1936, it has been our idea to give the Negro traveler information that will keep him from running into difficulties, embarrassments and to make his trips more enjoyable. The Jewish press has long published information about places that are restricted and there are numerous publications that give the gentile whites all kinds of information. But during these long years of discrimination, before 1936 other guides have been published for the Negro, some are still published, but the majority have gone out of business for various reasons. In 1936 the Green Book was only a local publication for Metropolitan New York, the response for copies was so great it was turned into a national issue in 1937 to cover the United States. This guide while lacking in many respects was accepted by thousands of travelers. Through the courtesy of the United States Travel Bureau of which Mr. Chas. A. R. McDowell was the collaborator on Negro Affairs, more valuable information was secured. With the two working together, this guide contained the best ideas for the Negro traveler. Year after year it grew until 1941. "PM" one of New York's great white newspapers found out about it. Wrote an article about the guide and praised it highly. At the present time the guide contains 80 pages and lists numerous business places, including whites which cater to the Negro trade.
........ There will be a day sometime in the near future when this guide will not have to be published. That is when we as a race will have equal opportunities and privileges in the United States. It will be a great day for us to suspend this publication for then we can go wherever we please, and without embarrassment. But until that time comes we shall continue to publish this information for your convenience each year."
--------------
You can see the establishments included in the Green Book this interactive map, and Rt. 66 was really only a minor part of it all.
http://library.sc.edu/digital/collections/greenbook.html
Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)Thank you.
MatthewStLouis
(904 posts)The past was racist, period. Many people, racist and non-racist, have fond memories of that road. No need to try and make everything a lightning rod.
alittlelark
(18,890 posts)DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)It was surely something to see back in the day. Now most of that stuff is gone or has become unbelievably seedy and run down.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)I spent five years there -- from 1987 to 1992. Good times.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)the south for that matter.Every state had sundown towns:
http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/content.php?file=sundowntowns-whitemap.html
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)" Get Your Kicks On) Route 66"
If you ever plan to motor west,
Travel my way, take the highway, that's the best.
Get your kicks on Route 66.
It winds from Chicago to L.A.
More than 2000 miles all the way,
Get your kicks on Route 66.
Now you go through Saint Louie,
And Joplin, Missouri,
And Oklahoma City looks mighty pretty, you'll see...
Amarillo...
Gallup, New Mexico,
Flagstaff, Arizona,
Don't forget Winona,
Kingman, Barstow, San Bernadino.
Won't you get hip to this timely tip
When you make that California trip?
Get your kicks on Route 66.
Won't you get hip to this timely tip
When you make that California trip?
Get your kicks on Route 66...
Get your kicks on Route 66...
Get your kicks on Route 66!
Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)melm00se
(4,993 posts)who went onto later to have a role in Emergency! and married to his co-star (and singer) Julie London - who's signature song was "Cry My River" (which for the young 'uns among us was part of the V for Vendetta soundtrack)
Iggo
(47,563 posts)"Goddam Army!"
longship
(40,416 posts)Emergency, and M.A.S.H.
And Route 66
He also played many roles on Dragnet, often the bad guy.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)My dad played the hell out of her albums. He sang horribly off-key along with her songs. My favorite Julie London cover is Fly Me To The Moon.
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,452 posts)Think Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath...
A HERETIC I AM
(24,373 posts)There is a shot of them crossing from Texas into New Mexico where the pavement ends and the road becomes dirt. I recognize the area, as it is the exact same corridor Interstate 40 runs through today. Also, the scene where they are swimming in the Colorado was shot right near where I 40 crosses the river, near Needles, CA.
Brother Buzz
(36,452 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,373 posts)I've driven I 40 end to end quite a few times and the point where 66 joins that corridor is in Oklahoma City. There are many vestiges of the old road including bridges that are right along the 40 freeway.
For some silly reason, I am fascinated by abandoned roads, and they are everywhere in this country. Many sections of the old 66 are still used of course, but the sections that are no longer accessible are of particular interest to me.
Not Rte 66 related, but here is a Google Earth shot of old California 46, the road James Dean was driving on when he had his fatal accident. The actual site of the accident is west of this photo by about 4 miles. The old road parallells New Rte 46 for about 10 miles or so before it basically disappears under the new pavement;
https://goo.gl/maps/9ziCJiuBEaR2
If you grab and scroll left on that photo, the next nearest intersection is roughly where the accident occurred, where CA 41 joins 46.
Old roads fascinate me because of the history they have. Who were the people that traveled them? What were their stories? What were their lives like? What must it have been like to drive those roads in the vehicles of their day?
Brother Buzz
(36,452 posts)The Interstate was under construction, paralleling the old highway. My memory is like Swiss cheese these day, but I believe the old section was four lane undivided highway in New Mexico; two of the lanes telegraphing the original highway concrete expansion joints under the asphalt.
mercuryblues
(14,537 posts)getting ready to post this, with a question.
After reading the lyrics, is it possible that Cole was passing along Safe towns along the route? It sounds that way to me.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)Retrograde
(10,143 posts)in choosing the towns (and they were roughly in order from start to end of the route).
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I guess I have some learning to do.
Wounded Bear
(58,685 posts)when they migrated from the midwest to California in the 30's.
Read the Grapes of Wrath. A great vision of America in the period.
I'm not sure about "racism" but the road was a major east/west thoroughfare, and there were numerous examples of "don't let the sun set on you in this town" directed at the poor people moving west on it back in the day. Since we are America, we tend to turn everything like this white. Probably many of the people moving west back then were not just poor white Okies, but blacks and other races, as the banks were foreclosing on tons of family farms and selling them off to the pre-cursors of modern Agri-business.
That was also, incidentally, probably the last great westward movement, and represented the closing of the frontier, so to speak.
Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)but not the closing of the frontier. Lots of that small town thinking going on in Florida where they believe they can suspend legal requirements in order to expedite development plans.
Wounded Bear
(58,685 posts)and that's the problem, in my mind. Back in the day, the rougher and more unruly people could basically remove themselves from society by "going west." Now, there is no Dodge City, or Deadwood, or Tombstone for people to emigrate to when the "forces of suppression" represented by society get under their skin. Now, they, and society have to learn to live together.
It's part and parcel of the whole gun rights dilemma. Most GRAs have a bit of an 'old west' attitude about weapons and firearms, which is not really compatible with urban life. When large numbers of people are jammed together into small spaces, rules have to be implemented which will seem restrictive to those who's vision is of a less crowded outlook. 100 million armed people occupying a million square miles probably won't be that much of a problem. Put 100 million armed people in 100 square miles, and people will get shot.
Sorry to bring in the gun debate. The point is that as a country, we haven't come far from the mindset of the late 1800's to early 1900's in a lot of ways and for a lot of reasons. Looking back at the era with an honest and open mind about what was really happening is important sociological and historical research. Whether or not society as a whole can learn much from it remains to be seen.
hunter
(38,322 posts)My last European ancestor was a mail order bride to Salt Lake City. She didn't like sharing a husband so she ran off with a monogamous man and they established a homestead that's still a long, long ways from the nearest Wal-Mart.
Families tended to be matriarchal and fools and their guns were soon separated. (I've witnessed my mom, in anger, separating people from their guns... not the pleasant sort of childhood memories.)
I think that's a very different social structure than the absurd gun fetishes encouraged by the NRA and celebrated by Hollywood.
My great grandmas, the three I knew as a kid, were very hard women.
JPZenger
(6,819 posts)When I think of Route 66, I think of the Okies from Oklahoma and adjacent states fleeing the drought and dust bowl that made it impossible for them to farm. Southern California was supposed to be the great land of opportunity.
Also, Route 66 had a reputation for adventure for celebrities and others taking a road trip out from LA in the 1950s. Of course, there was a TV show about 2 guys in a corvette called Route 66 in the late 1950s/early 1960s.
Wounded Bear
(58,685 posts)but for me, it goes deeper. I'll always think of The Grapes of Wrath first when someone mentions Route 66. I read it at a fairly young age, high school IIRC, and is was one of those events that I know I identified with. We were kind of poor when I grew up, so maybe it was that aspect.
I actually didn't read the linked article, so I missed the racial aspect of it. I know blacks have seldom been treated well in the history of this country, and much of that is glossed over in our history classes and popular lit/media. Poor whites were treated a bit better, but not much.
packman
(16,296 posts)That's going over the speedbump and into the curve a bit much isn't it? Well, it did have those white stripes down the middle of it and I bet the majority of the signs had white backgrounds.
Route 66 is a hippie highway, always was and even today, as fractured and broken up as it is, will forever be associated with a free- wheeling, feel good, balls out American idolization of a roaming spirit.
Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)shared by all Americans.
packman
(16,296 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)That's how segregation works.
Warpy
(111,317 posts)in every high school history course.
The traveling landscape looked a hell of a lot different if you were black. You didn't go down a row of motels anywhere looking for that "vacancy" sign to be lit, you consulted that book to find the private homes in bigger cities that had turned into inns where you could get a bed and find a cafe for a hot meal, otherwise it was more bologna sandwiches in the car because you could buy food at markets but forget about going to most restaurants. This wasn't restricted to the Jim Crow south, it was all over this country.
I first saw the book when I was a kid in the early 60s. I've recently reacquainted myself with it online.
"The Green Book: Vacation without Humiliation!"
Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)Which just goes to show you that Route 66 would represent good times for some and a sign of exclusion for others.
mercuryblues
(14,537 posts)and many vacation spots.
http://autolife.umd.umich.edu/Race/R_Casestudy/Negro_motorist_green_bk.htm
ProfessorGAC
(65,134 posts)It's now Illinois Rt 53, but there are many, many summertime travelers that take it through our town and towns going south as it runs as old frontage roads on what is now Interstate 55. There is some pretty cool stuff not too far from us, like a completely restored Standard Oil station complete with the old glass bottle top pumps.
I would think my little town, back then, might have been on that sundown list.
However, i SERIOUSLY doubt the road had anything to do with it.
Edited to Add:
If anybody here thinks that those same things didn't apply to Lincoln Highway, Dixie Highway, and Route 6, back in the day, i'd sure like to hear why you think it doesn't.
I think suggesting that there is some linkage to a particular road doesn't make much sense. The fact that sundown books were used is not in dispute.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)California and rt 66 on poles on his bike, sleeping bag and backpack
I waved and was walking so he stopped and told me he was going from Chicago to CA . At this pt he was following I 55 and only maybe 25 miles out of Chicago headed to Joliet. I told him be careful and to watch out for himself .
Maybe me being from IL I'm being prejudiced, but I was thinking OK to AZ could be trouble. He didn't understand and told me he was "going to watch everything he saw". Wished him luck and he biked away
The Begin Route 66 Sign is in downtown Chicago
The sign marking the start of historic Route 66 is located on the south side of Adams St in front of the Panda Express. I am often near signs of the route
He was around his place when we met
http://www.chickenbasket.com/index.html
The Chicken Basket, as it is today, opened in the summer of 1946 on Historic Illinois Route 66. Because of the amount of traffic and distance from Chicago, the Chicken Basket was the perfect stopping place going to or coming from Chicago.
Dell Rhea's Chicken Basket has been in countless Route 66 documentaries and travel books on Route 66 and has visitors from around the world on a regular basis!
ProfessorGAC
(65,134 posts)So is White Fence Farm.
The original Dairy Queen in Joliet is just a plaque on the sidewalk.
I live 7 blocks from the Gemini Giant, which actually shows up in the "Drive Illinois" commercials.
Biking from Chicago to CA?!?!? That's damned ambitious.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)I don't eat much chicken just like the atmosphere . CB has fish I like.
Yeah I wondered also if he had a roll of cash on him too . He was young and had probably planned this trip in Japan on a map not realizing the true scale.
But hopefully he enjoyed the summer riding 66 and met nothing but American hospitality on the way. This was maybe 2 summers ago? It wasn't the hottest one here
I'm pretty active but riding in the summer through AZ etc,? I might stop over somewhere until late fall
The giant muffler man ?
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)those were the days......
where are you?
Joliet-ish?
ProfessorGAC
(65,134 posts)About 20 miles. Small city of around 8,000. Moved there when my wife got a teaching gig at their big grade school. Long time ago.
Spent MANY years in Joliet. From something like ages 2 to 23.
In the 60's and 70's my dad delivered milk to the Garofalo's in Homewood. And the one in Chicago Heights, and Glenwood and Country Club Hills, and. . .
So, i know where you're talking about.
deaniac21
(6,747 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)A '59 and a '63.
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)always wanted one of those
maybe president trump will give me one after he fires me
Auggie
(31,177 posts)he made the effort to drive part of it on a 1960s vacation to the West Coast.
BarbaRosa
(2,684 posts)an historic trans-continental hi-way, a road passing through Albuquerque.
Here's a version of Rt.66 a friend turned me on to a while back (although I realize there are some out in the world who would want to build a wall around this video )
and here's an interesting tidbit about route 66
edhopper
(33,604 posts)HIGHWAY 66 IS THE main migrant road. 66the long concrete path across the country, waving gently up and down on the map, from the Mississippi to Bakersfieldover the red lands and the gray lands, twisting up into the mountains, crossing the Divide and down into the bright and terrible desert, and across the desert to the mountains again, and into the rich California valleys.
66 is the path of a people in flight, refugees from dust and shrinking land, from the thunder of tractors and shrinking ownership, from the deserts slow northward invasion, from the twisting winds that howl up out of Texas, from the floods that bring no richness to the land and steal what little richness is there. From all of these the people are in flight, and they come into 66 from the tributary side roads, from the wagon tracks and the rutted country roads. 66 is the mother road, the road of flight.
It was the main highway through the west to California, before the interstate system was built by Eisenhower.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)I grew up in Bakersfield, my grandparents traveled from Oklahoma on route 66 to get there. There are NO landmarks or any other attractions related to route 66 in Bakersfield. However the Santa Monica pier in Los Angeles is highly decorated with landmarks and signs as being the "end of the historic route 66."
What gives? I've tried a few route 66 google searches and only Santa Monica comes up, never Bakersfield... Was Steinbeck full of shit? Did my grandparents take a second road north from LA to Bakersfield? uhg.. its something I want to figure out
edhopper
(33,604 posts)GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Route 66 goes from the Midwest to California, but not to Bakersfield. Which is kind of what I thought. Grapes of Wrath was a good read since I could connect to it personally, but I get a little anal about specifics, so claiming route 66 ended in Bakersfield is just factually wrong. I will try to give Steinbeck the benefit of the doubt and imagine he was not strictly referring to the exact highway, but to a more general "route" that us Okies took to get Bakersfield.
I think that is right.
They took Rout 66 to California, but many ended up in the farming hub of Bakersfield.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)pass which brought down many a jalopy on the last stretch into Bakersfield. Route 66 from OK to CA. This often required passing police checkpoints by the LAPD at the State line. Woody Guthrie walked around the checkpoint. The Okie highway ended in Bakersfield. That's a fact.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)I've driven over the Grapevine about 50 times in the last 14 years. I'm very familiar with the roads between LA and Bakersfield and I'm very familiar with the fact that we Okies didn't stay in LA at the time of the dust bowl. My whole point was figuring out the contradiction between Steinbeck's description of route 66 in "The Grapes of Wrath" vs what I know from living in both Bakersfield and LA. His description is factually inaccurate it seems. Route 66 may have been 98% of the journey but they got off that route and went north through Fort Tejon/grapevine to reach Bakersfield.
Retrograde
(10,143 posts)California still has inspection stations at its borders: today their purpose is to try to stop agricultural pests from entering the state (botanically, it's an island because of the deserts and mountains, and agriculture is a BIG industry). In the 30s they also tried to turn back people it was felt were coming to California to mooch off the state or take jobs from Californians. The border inspection stations were too far for LA cops - they were manned by state policemen.
And if you're driving into California today, be honest when the nice people at the border ask you if your bringing any fruits or vegetables in with you: they're trying to prevent another infestation like the medfly outbreak in the early 1980s.
riversedge
(70,270 posts)serves the best milk shakes in the world. Used to go there as a treat once in a while when I lived there. Lots of old pics on the walls.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)Person 2713
(3,263 posts)Quite a few covers of the song in the last ten years so someone is still interested in it
teach1st
(5,935 posts)I found about 50 playlists on Spotify, most all titled "Route 66."
Igel
(35,337 posts)The Pixar move _Cars_ featured the song very prominently. Radiator Springs is on Rt. 66, with the interstate that's being put in being I-40.
The movie drips Route 66 references, with the song capping it.
Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)Would explain why a ten year old is familiar with it.
riversedge
(70,270 posts)Ptah
(33,034 posts)trackfan
(3,650 posts)liberal N proud
(60,339 posts)Like so much of America at the time, racism was rampant and festering.
Iggo
(47,563 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,134 posts)The things described in the OP probably happened on nearly every highway in america.
Just that so many people used 66, or 30, that it happened more times on those roads.
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)of the U.S. to the West Coast for all those automobile vacations made possible by good wages, paid vacation time with affordable automobiles plus cheap gasoline.
ananda
(28,873 posts)That's how I'll always remember Route 66.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)But now I get then on I-10!
malaise
(269,144 posts)room and board for fellow travelers - and of course I grew hearing Cole with the song
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)was false advertising.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)And yes... I ate the meal as a teenager.
http://bigtexan.com/
Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)
seabeyond This message was self-deleted by its author.
hunter
(38,322 posts)Some involving large motorcycles, hitchhiking, trucks, and mad brilliant women.
My wife and I made the trip between Los Angeles and Chicago via Route 66 many times, later with our kids too.
The Interstates that replaced it are boring.
The museum sections of the highway today are okay, preserving some of the flavor, but I miss the truly weird and maybe dangerous stuff.
I'm gonna go for a story I don't think I've told before. I like retaining some level of anonymity here on DU. Even if it's people pretending not to know me. (Hi, Mom!)
I'd been doing mysterious work out in the desert and I was filthy dirty and stinky. I'm also a cheap son of a bitch, so I checked into a very decrepit Route 66 motel to clean up before I returned to civilization. The room was eleven dollars but the elderly chain-smoking woman behind the night window accepted a ten because she didn't have change for my twenty.
In the morning a young woman my age, pushing a cleaning cart, let herself in and feigned surprise that I was still there. She was wearing sandals, shorts, and a nearly transparent blouse-sort-of-thing. Nothing else.
I wasn't buying what she was selling but I gave her a ride to Kingman anyways. I hope she found a better life.
Okay, I confess... real life is much, much messier than that. I don't have a fucking clue if I made the world a better place or not.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)early cover version they did, that I heard as a wee child:
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)womanofthehills
(8,745 posts)Here is a photo I took on Route 66 west of Albuquerque in the 90's - check out the old cement teepee - my daughter and her friend are the models