I think it is irresponsible to speculate on the identity of the shooters.

[GaYellowDawg]

Last edited Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:17 AM - Edit history (1)

Betting that it's white people trying to foment a race war, or betting that it's black people carrying out retaliation are equally invalid and just makes this community look bad. There's no point in it. None of us know. We will be told. And then we can start to form opinions.

On edit: yep, I used "speculate" incorrectly, which is embarrassing, especially since I argued about it downthread with someone who was right. Mea culpa. What I actually think is that it's irresponsible to prematurely arrive at conclusions about the identity of the shooters.

[chillfactor]

1. agreed....

too much speculation going on...

[LonePirate]

2. My primary question right now is if it was spontaneous or pre-meditated.

The alleged bomb(s) along with the weapons and ammo suggest the event was pre-meditated; but it's not like the shooters would have known beforehand numerous cops would be lined up in view of a makeshift sniper's nest.

To me, it seems like they had prepared or blueprinted some sort of attack and were confronted with an opportunity to enact their plan.

It's a horrible tragedy with far too many questions right now.

[GaYellowDawg]

5. I would certainly think premeditated.

I would think that spontaneous would have been one individual banging away at a group of police from ground level.

I can't speculate on whether tonight's tragedy would take military training, because I have none myself.

[Ash_F]

15. I am from the area. If they knew the terrain they could quickly find perches.

There are a lot of multi-story parking garages with open sides.

[Ex Lurker]

16. I believe you are right NT

[gwheezie]

3. True

We will know soon enough, it may take a few days. They still don't have all the suspects in custody.

[HamiltonSwan]

4. Agreed. It looks like there's already been one major fuckup with that tonight

[davidn3600]

6. All sides are apparently itching to score political points off tragedies such as this

We are so politically polarized and charged now, it's what America has come to.

[SheilaT]

7. What shooters? Where?

I hate to break this to you, but not everyone is watching whatever MSM channel you're watching.

[grossproffit]

8. Dallas police officers assassinated this evening.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/breaking-news/reports-of-officer-shot-in-dallas-during-black-lives-matter-march/391670191

[SheilaT]

10. Thank you.

I am frequently annoyed by threads that assume everyone else is on the same page. Not all of us are. And I sincerely appreciate our response.

[GaYellowDawg]

12. All you had to do was read the board.

Maybe that would have prevented your needless annoyance.

[SheilaT]

20. How many threads would I have need to have read?

I actually go into the main page where all threads are posted, and found this one.

I'm reminded of my sister who was astonished that I didn't know the celebrity chefs who are on NPR. I don't happen to watch the celebrity chef shows. Shall I ramble on about the science fiction authors I know?

People often forget that there really are small divisions of fame or knowledge. I happen to be well connected in the science fiction community, not so well connected in other communities. I do not assume that you (or anyone else) will know when I start nattering on about a particular s-f author. Unfortunately, everyone else assumes I should know about lots of other folks in other communities. Honestly, we don't all know the same people.

And I must ask: What board should I have read?

[GaYellowDawg]

24. I actually wish you would ramble on about the SF authors you know.

It's my favorite genre, especially if you include alternate history.

I'm sorry for getting annoyed with you. I hope you'll understand that, when posting on a website like DU with people who are generally well-informed, that it's easy to assume virtually all posters know about a major event like this hours after it began.

[SheilaT]

27. I'm sending you a PM

[GaYellowDawg]

29. Thank you.

[grossproffit]

25. My pleasure.

[GaYellowDawg]

11. The shooters in Dallas who killed 4 LEOs and injured 7 others.

I didn't think it needed clarification. We know who shot Alton Sinclair and Philandro Castile. The only shooters that the board have been speculating about over the last couple of hours have been the ones in Dallas. I would think you could figure that out.

[SheilaT]

39. I'm not on this board constantly, sometimes I miss

a breaking story.

[GaYellowDawg]

40. I am not being sarcastic when I say this:

I'll keep your words in mind the next time I start a thread. Again, I apologize for being a smartass with you.

[SheilaT]

41. This thread wasn't as bad as some here,

where the title assumes everyone is watching the same TV show or CSpan whatever. Or simply is a response to something said on the TV, as if we're all in the same room.

And I need to not be so crabby at times.

[greyl]

9. Speculating is not the same as betting.

Speculation typically involves multiplying possibilities, while betting means somebody has chosen one.

[GaYellowDawg]

13. Wrong.

First definition of "speculation" by Mirriam-Webster: "ideas or guesses about something that is not known."

Please know a word's definition before you correct someone else's use of it.

[greyl]

14. Oh brother.

What I said doesn't contradict that definition, and that definition doesn't say speculating is like betting. Speculating, the verb, like what we were actually talking about.

edit: by "multiplying possibilities" I meant making more and more (educated) guesses, so as not to ignore any possibilities or settle on a favorite hastily, without evidence. I hope that clarifies.

[GaYellowDawg]

17. Oh brother is right.

The definition of speculating, the verb, as given by Mirriam-Webster: "to think about something and make guesses about it : to form ideas or theories about something usually when there are many things not known about it"

I can't think of any reason for you to mention betting unless you misunderstood the verb "speculating."

[greyl]

18. Exactly. That's essentially what I said. Now check out the definition of betting,

since you used that word twice in your OP: "Betting that it's white people trying to foment a race war, or betting that it's black people carrying out retaliation".

I can't imagine why you didn't hypothesize that was the reason I mentioned betting.

[GaYellowDawg]

19. Holy shit.

Again, from Mirriam Webster, re betting: "a choice made by consideration of probabilities <your best bet is the back road>"

On edit: I thought that the speculation, resulting in premature choices, was irresponsible. Thanks for hijacking the thread by trying to stupidly nitpick the grammar.

[greyl]

23. Yes, too bad it took so much time.

I agree, betting on a premature choice is bad - in a live situation when all the facts have yet to come in, especially.

I disagree that speculating or hypothesizing is bad - in a live situation when some facts are known. Adding alternative speculations to conversations based on premature choices can be very good.

Have a good one.

[GaYellowDawg]

26. Sorry for the argument.

You make a good point.

On edit: And I'm embarrassed. Usually I understand the points that people are trying to make right away, and I didn't understand your point. You were right, and it makes me feel a bit stupid. Since I put myself out there I might as well acknowledge it and apologize.

[PersonNumber503602]

21. Wouldn't you say it all depends on how one approaches it?

For example, I can think of a few possible motives and identities of shooters. Two of which you stated, and the other being that this is an ISIS type group who is using it as an opportunity to lash out, and the targeting of police only was done in order to stoke racial tensions in the US. Then of course there are more crazy conspiracy theories, but I'm not really into those. I don't think discussing possibilities is wrong in itself, but only becomes problematic when someone declares it as fact and then goes to seek out information to confirm what they believe.

[Purveyor]

22. I haven't a guess how this came down but it sure as hell will be interesting when it

shakes out...

[romanic]

28. I don't even care who they are or what they're cause is, they need to be prosecuted.

[RandySF]

30. My speculations are based on method.

How would you feel if a cop was running at you with gun drawn even if you have superior firepower? I would piss my pants, but one of the shooters took him down cool as a cucumber. How many people, even among the military, develop that poise under pressure?

[Drunken Irishman]

31. People with a death wish.

[GaYellowDawg]

33. That's an excellent point, one I didn't consider.

And I used the word "speculate" incorrectly, which embarrasses me and pisses me off. I don't misuse words often. I intended to convey the idea that assigning these actions to specific groups of people prematurely was irresponsible. Which isn't what you've done.

You've given me something to think about, which is why speculations are useful in this case. I would edit the title of the post but I feel like I have to own it.

[Skittles]

32. I can speculate they are gun humping cowards

oh yes

[sir pball]

34. Nah, this took skill and cold blood

Humpers have trouble hitting a plate at 50 yards, these guys know how to shoot. They cooly picked off the cops at range. You have to be calm, judge the wind, hold over if you're outta zero, control your breath, know when to squeeze the trigger. Hitting a deer broadside is hard enough at 400 yards, let alone a human in the head.

This has become war and the cops, with access to true military hardware (automatic rifles, SMGs, flashbangs/frags, APCs, probably RPGs), and with MUCH better snipers (I wager the FBI HRT gets involved) are gonna slaughter. Lol.

[sir pball]

42. Nah, I'm Good at best and Neutral at worst.

But I am hardcore Chaotic, so while I don't WANT it to happen, I'd totally enjoy the shitshow of it going down.

Same as the Brexit, I didn't want it that way but...chaos! Yay!

[Skittles]

38. THEY ARE STILL HUMPERS

AND THEY ARE STILL COWARDS

[underahedgerow]

43. You can only push people so far before they start to push back.

Surely he's got a mental disorder that fomented his anger, that doesn't take skin color.