It's generally understood that police exist to keep order. . .

[gollygee]

The police are working as intended. We need to change how police work, and the intention. Simply replacing a few police officers isn't enough.

[TipTok]

1. Tumblr in action...

[gollygee]

2. That's Twitter

Keep your social networking apps straight!

[TipTok]

5. Fair enough...

It would certainly be right at home on a tumblr blog though.

[LanternWaste]

4. Another relevant insight, filled with both great wisdom and wit, and wholly germane to the point at

Another relevant insight, filled with both great wisdom and wit, and wholly germane to the point at hand... else merely a most clever form of hiding behind implication when our agenda, even at its most subtle, is far too obvious for general consumption or delightful appearing fonts on a t-shirt..

[TipTok]

6. Do you own a fedora?

[gollygee]

7. What do fedoras have to do with this? Nt

[TipTok]

8. Just building a mental picture...

[gollygee]

9. I'm not following

I do not personally own a fedora. I don't understand the connection.

[Lancero]

11. They're referring to this picture.

[img][/img]

Basically, they're calling you a neckbeard. (Which itself is shorthand for a obese and ugly misogynist.)

[gollygee]

12. LOL that is so far from who I am it's weird

I'm a middle aged minivan-driving mom. And not anywhere near that big. LOL.

But big guys with fedoras can have valuable things to say. Not sure why someone being big and wearing a particular style of hat is an issue.

Also, we can see the picture of who posted it and he is a handsome young physically fit man who is not wearing a fedora.

[Lancero]

13. Actually, the refrence was to Lantern.

I got the chain mixed up and thought he was referring to you, though that didn't stop em from doubling down when they replied to you so...

[TipTok]

14. That was for lantern...

... whose post I responded to and I've seen off and on.

The content and format of his posts brings to mind a certain mental picture and I was curious if it fit.

[Duckhunter935]

3. The whole structure of policing needs to be changed

We should look at some of the European models.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. If "order" is a racist construct, what's on the other side of the coin?

[gollygee]

16. The way we as a country define order is a racist construct

We define it largely as keeping people of color in line. When groups, even small groups, of African American teens are standing in a group together, they are likely to be approached by police. We have a definition of "order" that sees groups of African Americans as a problem.

White people carrying guns are expressing their 2nd amendment rights. Black people carrying guns are a threat. Disorder. That's another example.

Those are two examples anyway. Order is fine. "Order" as we generally define it in our society is a racist construct.

[ContinentalOp]

18. It's a play on words

"Order" as in "law & order" vs. "order" as in "the existing order of things." ie. the establishment.

The emphasis is a little ambiguous. But I read it with an emphasis on "that." What's not understood is THAT order is white supremacist capitalist patriarchy." Not "that ORDER is ..."

[JustinL]

23. Justice Goldberg made some insightful remarks about this issue in the 1964 case of Bell v Maryland

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/378/226.html

This case involved the following situation:

Petitioners, Negro "sit-in" demonstrators, were asked to leave a Baltimore restaurant solely because of their race, refused to do so, and were convicted of violating Maryland's criminal trespass law.

The Supreme Court sent the case back to the Maryland courts "for reconsideration in light of an issue of state law." Three justices dissented, arguing that the convictions should be upheld. Justice Goldberg, while acquiescing in the Court's disposition, of the case felt constrained to reply to the dissenters. From pp. 311-312:

In the present case the responsibility of the judiciary in applying the principles of the Fourteenth Amendment is clear. The State of Maryland has failed to protect petitioners' constitutional right to public accommodations and is now prosecuting them for attempting to exercise that right. The decision of Maryland's highest court in sustaining these trespass convictions cannot be described as "neutral," for the decision is as affirmative in effect as if the State had enacted an unconstitutional law explicitly authorizing racial discrimination in places of public accommodation. A State, obligated under the Fourteenth Amendment to maintain a system of law in which Negroes are not denied protection in their claim to be treated as equal members of the community, may not use its criminal trespass laws to frustrate the constitutionally granted right. Nor, it should be added, may a State frustrate this right by legitimating a proprietor's attempt at self-help. To permit self-help would be to disregard the principle that &quot t)oday, no less than 50 years ago, the solution to the problems growing out of race relations' cannot be promoted by depriving citizens of their constitutional rights and privileges,' Buchanan v. Warley . . . 245 U.S., at 80 -81." Watson v. City of Memphis, 358 U.S. 526, 539 . As declared in Cooper v. Aaron, 358 U.S. 1, 16 , "law and order are not . . . to be preserved by depriving the Negro . . . of (his) constitutional rights."

In spite of this, the dissent intimates that its view best comports with the needs of law and order. Thus it is said: "It would betray our whole plan for a tranquil and orderly society to say that a citizen, because of his personal prejudices, habits, attitudes, or beliefs, is cast outside the law's protection and cannot call for the aid of officers sworn to uphold the law and preserve the peace." Post, at 327-328. This statement, to which all will readily agree, slides over the critical question: Whose conduct is entitled to the "law's protection"? Of course every member of this Court agrees that law and order must prevail; the question is whether the weight and protective strength of law and order will be cast in favor of the claims of the proprietors or in favor of the claims of petitioners. In my view the Fourteenth Amendment resolved this issue in favor of the right of petitioners to public accommodations and it follows that in the exercise of that constitutionally granted right they are entitled to the "law's protection." Today, as long ago, &quot t)he very essence of civil liberty certainly consists in the right of every individual to claim the protection of the laws . . . ." Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 163.

[Albertoo]

15. USA = order of the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy?

Wow. Thanks for that tweet. I never realized how shitty and oppressive the US was before.

- I'm sure the patriarchy is lighter in Africa, Muslim countries or India.
- I have no doubt Capitalism is not the norm, and that Cuba and Venezuela are better
- I'm convinced President Obama and Eric Holder were big on white supremacism

That tweet is a shortcut down the rabbit hole.

[gollygee]

17. Hmm

There are lots of patriarchal countries in the world. We're just one. Other countries also being patriarchal does not mean our country isn't.

There is a radical free-market capitalism movement in the world. That movement is built around funneling wealth upstream to the already wealthy. I believe that is the style of capitalism under discussion in the tweet.

We are a white supremacist society despite some people of color reaching high achievement despite it.

[Albertoo]

19. Further down the rabbit hole. You negate the notion of degree.

When you write "There are lots of patriarchal countries in the world. We're just one."
you completely eschew the fact coutries range from extremely patriarchal to almost not patriarchal at all. In this respect, calling the US a country just one of the patriarchal countries of the world just is not an accurate reflection of reality




In the same way, a country where the laws do not discriminate based on ethnicity and where people reach the top positions can not reasonably be called a white supremacist country.
Someone wanting to make that claim is saying there's no difference between Ian Smith's Rhodesia and Barak Obama's America. Again, not an accurate reflection of reality.

As for capitalism, it's over: even Russia and China are capitalist now.

[gollygee]

20. It's a matter of degree

It isn't a question of who is patriarchal and who isn't. It's a matter of how patriarchal a country is. And comparing us to countries that do "honor kilings" doesn't give me much optimism. Yeah, we're better than that. That doens't mean we aren't patriarchal and don't have issues of our own to solve.

[Albertoo]

21. But the OP's tweet is blissfully oblivious to the notion of degree

Saying, as the tweet does, that the US is patriarchal and racist means something very different altogether than saying that there still is progress to be made in the US on the gender and ethnic equality fronts.

[gollygee]

22. We are both

If we have work to be done, it's because we are stil patriarchal and racist. There are other places that have their own issues to work on, but we can't ignore our own issues just because other places are worse. My neighbor might have cancer, but I still have to worry about my own health even if mine isn't life threatening.